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Darkness vs Oath(Oath flame Tsuyoshi Sawada vs Yami Sukehiro)

It is manly because he scales above someone who resisted the power null of Rain Flames or sonething like that
 
EpsilonR,ok so we see a giant hole in the panel you showed me where we even see Yami looking up at Asta, mentioning it. I'm not going to debate this anymore, in the anime and the manga we don't see him slashing through. All the evidence you've shown has holes in it, but to end this, Tsuna has a power-nulling cloak anyway so he can block the attack.
 
No the forcefield was spatial manipulation they were in another dimension , that's why yami had to learn the technique in the first place.
 
vetto didn't have a force-field. He was just releasing a lot of power, the only force-field vetto has should be the standard one all high-level mages have which isn't power nulling
 
Forcefield or not, that's still powernull https://v217.**********.com/manga/Black-Clover/0072-016.png
 
That was just a lot of power , over powering all of their attacks. Yami even mentions how the reason he can slash through, is because his technique is independent of power.
 
The erasing was because the power was overpowering her spell(it's actually closer to burning). We even see it burning up the threads in the panel you showed and in the anime, and in some translations(the anime) she says he's burning up the threads.
 
No that it isn't if a character overpowers another it's not power-null,otherwise a lot of anime characters would have it.

To end this discussion too it's not on his profile, make a CRT about it if you want, but if it's not on his profile,https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/Vetto, he doesn't have the power. So vetto did not have power-null therefore your point is null and mute.
 
YungManzi and XDragnoir, ok so from what I understand rain-flames are touch-based power-nullification correct. Yami's power-nullification is a wide-scale absorption of power from an area. The types are very different. Now, I'm not certain either way if Yami could negate his gravity, but considering another character of comparable power-levels(https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/Dante_(Black_Clover)) with gravity manipulation couldn't get through black-moon I doubt it could completely get through his power-negation area.

However, Tsuna's resistance to power-nullification might allow him to affect Yami with his gravity manipulation to some degree , but considering Yami has a class G lifting strength and has experienced gravity manipulation full force before(in the fight with Dante he was standing under the full pressure of the gravity manipulation before he activated black-moon). I don't think it would be a significant factor in the fight either way.Please tell me if you disagree with this notion.
 
Was gravity manipulation even a wincon here? Harmony (petrification and power null) and ZPB First Edition (sealing and ice), which aren't resisted by Yami afaik, are better wincons.
 
Just before I start tallying up win-conditions is it fair to say it Yami is superior in close-combat via better experience, Iai Slash techniques, and the ability to attack from any any direction within his mana-zone.

(If you don't know what Ia slash techniques do it condenses the mana zone so when an opponent comes in the said mana-zone his iai-slashes can't miss 'according to him',https://w11.mangafreak.net/Read1_Black_Clover_246)
 
I am sure Vongola Intuition would help him if he can't go inside a certain area or something like that.
 
I'm not debating that intuition wouldn't help him stay out of it(I agree with you), but if Yami was to get in close, is it fair to say he would have the advantage.
 
Tsuna is on par with his guardians when it comes to H2H fight, one of them being Yamamoto who is nearly equal to Squalo, the sword emperor, but when his VI is added, Tsuna is able to stand above his guardians, so the 2 of them should be mostly equal in H2H, with neither having the advantage.
 
I don't doubt that in terms of general swords vs hand to hand their equal however, when regarding yami's ability to attack from any angle, as well as his Iai slash techniques thats what pushes him above tsuna in H2H.

Edit:Essentially , Yami has more variety as well as if tsuna's not careful ways to end the fight very quickly(Iai slash techniques) that give him the edge.
 
What are Yami's skill feats? It's one thing I've always been curious about. If we're talking skill, then feats should be compared. As I don't recall Yami being comparable to say, Yamamoto who can, with a week of training, defeat the best swordsman in the world.

CQC is one thing. H2H is another thing entirely. I believe you're arguing for CQC being in Yami's favor by a tad. (Which I'm unsure of, given Tsuna has also specifically caught Genkishi's blade before to use one of his techniques).
 
CyborgSakumo said:
They are , both life-force energies, just in the case with hitman-reborn , it's a more refined version of life-force energy. In other threads, people generally equalize dying will flames to magic and other forms of life-force energy https://vsbattles.com/vsbattles/927499, https://vsbattles.com/vsbattles/1621307 . They're equalized.
Click to expand...
But why should we equalize drying will flames to mana? If it is a life-force like energy, then we shouldn't, because life force energy exists in Black Clover, and is apparently distinct from mana itself, as witnessed in the fight against Zagred. So, i'm going to need a better explanation as to why equalization is justified.
 
In terms of experience and skill there about equal, I'm talking about close-quarters techniques putting yami ahead. Tsuna's blade grasp of genkishi required a lot of prior set-up so it's unlikely he could do it in this situation. What Yami has in experience(he's been fighting since age 17), tsuna has in raw talent.

I'm not arguing that point.As I stated before.

Yami's ability to attack from any angle, as well as his Iai slash techniques iswhat pushes him above tsuna in CQC.
 
Epsilon R said:
And that's still powernull
Click to expand...
No, it isn't, CyborgSakumo is 100% correct here. Having an attribute/elemental advantage that negates a particular spell or simply overpowering that spell with your own obviously-stronger spell does not give a character power nullification in general. More on that in the Power Nullification page. And besides, Vetto does not have power nullification in his profile, so you are still wrong: if you wanted to use it for this battle, a CRT would need to have it approved and added to his profile before this thread was closed.
 
MindControl116 said:
CyborgSakumo said:
They are , both life-force energies, just in the case with hitman-reborn , it's a more refined version of life-force energy. In other threads, people generally equalize dying will flames to magic and other forms of life-force energy https://vsbattles.com/vsbattles/927499, https://vsbattles.com/vsbattles/1621307 . They're equalized.
Click to expand...
But why should we equalize dying will flames to mana? If it is a life-force like energy, then we shouldn't, because life force energy exists in Black Clover, and is apparently distinct from mana itself, as witnessed in the fight against Zagred. So, i'm going to need a better explanation as to why equalization is justified.
Click to expand...
Other threads have equalized dying will flames to similar energies before,(read above linked threads). Also,from what I understand(https://vsbattles.com/vsbattles/1058387) the OP is allowed to set the rules for that.

Edit:This is my first talked about vs-battles so I'm sorry if I don't know all the exact rules for this,
 
CyborgSakumo said:
Other threads have equalized dying will flames to similar energies before,(Natsu vs Tsuna). Also,from what I understand(https://vsbattles.com/vsbattles/1058387) the OP is allowed to set the rules for that.

Edit:This is my first talked about vs-battles so I'm sorry if I don't know all the exact rules for this,
Click to expand...

Hmmmm….. strange. Okay, well, I sort of understand. I'm still a little skeptical, but if the admins allowed it in other threads before, then whatever, I'll accept it. It's not particular relevant, I just wanted clarification because I was very confused.
 
Actually, if BC has 2 non-related power sources, one being "the same" as DWF, while the other isn't, then power equalization really doesn't apply here, since the power sources need to share some traits to be equalized (this is the reason OP vs Bleach threads aren't done that much here, because Haki=/=Reiatsu).
 
Life-force isn't a power source, the only reason that concept exists is because a certain character had a life-force absorbing technique.(Though, interestingly enough asta the boy with no magic was unaffected by this technique so that lends to the belief that mana=life force.)
 
CyborgSakumo said:
Life-force isn't a power source, the only reason that concept exists is because a certain character had a life-force absorbing technique.(Though, interestingly enough asta the boy with no magic was unaffected by this technique so that lends to the belief that mana=life force.)
Click to expand...
It doesn't lend to that notion. Asta wasn't affected by the technique because he was holding the anti-magic imbued Demon-Destroyer sword, and the anti-magic protected him. Also, the absorption of life force caused Yami's hand to basically rot, which is not something that happens when his mana is being absorbed by, say, Henry's curse, suggesting these are totally separate types of energy. The rottening of his hand needed healing by Charla, suggesting that lifeforce has something to do with durability, while mana actually has something to do with stamina, although mana isn't the only source of stamina, because we know Asta has high stamina despite having no mana.

Also, IIRC, life force is actually the reason why ki sensing works in the Black Clover verse. And ki sensing is functionally distinct from mana sensing.

Now, as far as it not being a power source, you're probably correct. But keep in mind, I only brought this topic up because I want you all to at least understand that these are indeed different things, even if that difference ends up not being relevant to the thread. I want there to be the least amount of misunderstandings possible.

EDIT: not only was Asta's anti-magic capable of protecting Asta from the life-force-absorbing spell, but we have seen that certain protection spells can also protect from the spell temporarily, as seen as by Licht's spell that was used to protect all the other magic knights and elves inside the palace from said life-force-absorbing spell. So while it does absorb magic to an extent, it doesn't really have anything to do with mana itself, it just has to do with the fact that arcane stage magic is required to be able to do anything against it. and as I already said, mana absorption doesn't cause people's bodies to rot, but the life-force absorbing spell does, because we saw what it did to Yami, so it's fairly clear these are different things.
 
CyborgSakumo said:
In terms of experience and skill there about equal, I'm talking about close-quarters techniques putting yami ahead. Tsuna's blade grasp of genkishi required a lot of prior set-up so it's unlikely he could do it in this situation. What Yami has in experience(he's been fighting since age 17), tsuna has in raw talent.
I'm not arguing that point.As I stated before.

Yami's ability to attack from any angle, as well as his Iai slash techniques iswhat pushes him above tsuna in CQC.
Click to expand...
@MindControl116 Thanks for the information, appreciate it.

@XDragnoir and @MindControl116 Curious, on your thoughts on the Yami vs Tsuna in CQC.
 
Well, since he can attack from any angle the only thing saving Tsuna is his precog and his defensive cambio forma, but anyway, if Mana and Ki aren't the same thing in BC, i don't think we can equalize the former with DWFs.
 
Ki != life-force. According to the wiki,(https://blackclover.fandom.com/wiki/Ki), it's stated as sensing the natural energy of people the idea of life-force has only been brought up very recently. Natural energy means like breathing, body-heat,etc.(these are the words Yami uses to describe Ki.).
 
I have no knowledge on the KHR verse, so I genuinely cannot say how skilled Tsunayoshi is in CQC relative to Yami, but based on what I have read on this thread, both fighters are very impressive in this regard within their own verses. However, my understanding is that Tsunayoshi's abilities and techniques are not specifically geared to help him in CQC, and when they do, it's circumstantial. Meanwhile, Yami's dark magic spells are specifically specialized in this, and some spells are designed to aid him in CQC in the first place, such as the fact the is using reinforcement magic to amp himself, and the fact that he has spells such as Avidya Slash and Iai Slash, which is stated to never miss, and Black Blade, these things make me think he probably does have an advantage in CQC even if ever so slight. He can sword fight opponents who outspeed him (see Yami vs Patry), or swordfight multiple opponents with a broken sword (see Yami vs The Third Eye). I don't know how impressive these feats would be considered, but the point is that he can swordfight as if the fight were in neutral position even if the match-up is otherwise a losing match-up for him, probably because his fighting style and magic spells are specifically designed for superior swordfighting.

Also, I don't know what y'all's philosophy is regarding talent vs experience, but I usually always vote for the person with more experience over the person with more talent, if all other things are equal. You can disagree, because it is mainly just a philosophy, but I think it's a reasonable claim, at least.
 
Ki!=life-force , yet you just said ki is life-force which is what I'm trying to explain here. Edit:No sass, there sorry. I understand, you don't know the verse, just having to play mediator between two different verses can be tricky.
 
Summary:

Mana =/= Ki

Ki =/= Lifeforce

Lifeforce =/= Mana

That is what I'm beginning to understand here. So equalization might still not be applicable. But even if it isn't, I'm not sure it's relevant for this battle. Yami's precognition is still functional for the purposes of this battle. And I'm not sure equalization was ever necessary.
 
It means tsuna can't absorb yami's long-range attacks,like the dimension slash(he can still power-null it but he doesn't get the stat-boost).


He could still touch him and absorb his energy that way, but that's easier said then done).
 
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