Dark Schneider vs Reinhard Heydrich

[CrossverseCrisis]

That's why people should read first before responding. If i made this with 1-A Reinhard, the obvious action would be to not make this at all.

 

[LordAizenSama]

is Dark Schneider about to get bumped off as the most OP tier 5!?!? I didn't think i'd see the day.

Poor Sheoth.

 

[CrossverseCrisis]

I just wanted to see if a non-Masadaverse character can be overpowered. If Prom was able to get a Touhou character to beat one, so can i with another (although) different one~

 

[Sheoth]

is Dark Schneider about to get bumped off as the most OP tier 5!?!? I didn't think i'd see the day.
Poor Sheoth.

Boi, I aint even trying to argue for a side here. But now you've gone and done it.

Dispel bound states that it prevents instant victory type moves such as Longinuslanze or Legion Soul Suckery. Since this is the case, I vote in Dark Schneider's favor, seeing as Reinhard will likely have to get through Dispel Bound the old fashioned way.

 

[CrossverseCrisis]

Man did Sheoth got on to here tho. Jesus Christ. ^^;

 

[EliminatorVenom]

Dark Schneider, with incredibly high diff.

I mean, Reinhard might have a significant edge on hax, but with the Dispel Bounds that Sheoth mentioned, there is no freaking way Reinhard can one-shot him, which just allows Darsh to eventually beat Reinhard.

But this is an epic match, indeed. Congrats, Cross.

 

[CrossverseCrisis]

Thanks EVenom.

Okay now that i tried to recount the votes. It's now Reinhard 5 still, Darsh with 4 now, and apparently 1 with Inconclusive i guess.

 

[Shining_Trapezohedron]

Knowing Reinhard, he wouldnt tried the same tactic all over again. If it fail the first time, he would throw Longinuslanze at him and that would be over for Darsh as even Dispel Bound will have even a hard time defend against Longinuslanze hax ability to destroy history even concept. Its true that Dispel bound defend against One hit kill and Soul manipulation but it sure as hell cant withstand against Concept destruction attack.

Darsh would eventually one shot Reinhard if Reinhard didnt take the fight seriously and just proceed to messing around which I doubt he wouldnt. But once he does and pull out Gladsheimr Longinus Dreizhn Orden, its game over for Darsh. But either way, for me once Reinhard pull out Schreiber "I am faster bitch" move. Darsh wouldnt have a single hope of hitting Reinhard.

 

[Sheoth]

@Shining Trapezohedro:

Just out of curiosity, what specifically does Longinuslanze or Gladsheimer do at a conceptual level?

 

[Shining_Trapezohedron]

The game still havent translate yet so I have going by the profile.

I think EvilMegaCookie would be better at explaining about Longinus and Gladsheim better to you than I do.

But going by the profile, Machina Briah could destroy anything as long as it had a history and it including concept as hey had exist since he big bang. So with Longinuslanze, Reinhard could probably or maybe destroy the concept of Dispel Bound ever existed. Everything I said at this point is base on the profile so I could be wrong.

 

[CrossverseCrisis]

Shining is right on those two points.

As for the things Reinhard has like his Longinuslanze, we currently have this on his profile.

"Longinuslanze Testament: Reinhard's Holy Relic, the Spear of Destiny, something only he himself can wield. The weapon is described as being "Fast like Albedo, never missing like Rubedo, and all-killing like Nigredo", meaning that the spear is always faster than its target, never misses, and kills whatever it hits before dragging their soul to Valhalla to become part of Reinhard's legion. Aside from Reinhardt himself, those who look upon the Lance itself will have their minds burned and their souls erased, and attempting to lay hands on it will also erode their existence the longer they hold onto it.

• Stigmata: Reinhard can instantly curse the target with the Longinus should he choose, making them a part of his Legion the moment they die."

This is just for his spear, btw. @Sheoth

 

[Sheoth]

So again, the "can one-hit anything" card. This still comes into conflict with the properties of Dispel Bound, and the only way a winner could be decided here is if it can be determined if Reinhards spear n' stuff can pierce it as easily as it says.

And again, I would honestly say it couldn't, but there is no real way to prove it my way or the other way. This is looking more inconclusive the longer it goes on.

 

[TISSG7Redgrave]

wait can't midgardr Volsunga saga just erase the barriers because to use that move you need to use your fists aka physical strikes so there's that if that works than the barriers will be erased from existance so i don't think the right question will be whether Reinhard can one-shot DS which is doubtful via dispel bound but whether anything in Reinhard's arsenal can erase the barriers which imho Machina's Briah should do the trick

 

[CrossverseCrisis]

Now the real kicker of sorts is Reinhards Briah here. Warning: Long read of text.

"Gladsheimr - Gullinkambi Fūnfte Weltall: Reinhard's Briah, a massive, hellish castle the size of a city with an interior entirely made out of souls. Anyone who falls into it becomes part of Reinhard's Legion of Einherjar, giving him all of their memories and powers. It also makes his Legion immortal as long as they are bound to him. Gladsheimr is also capable of transforming into a skeletal creature large enough to dwarf massive forests, possesses great mobility, produces more energy than any earthquake in history through its movement alone, and can turn entire countries to ash with an energy blast fired from its mouth. Additionally, the castle itself is detached from the multiverse, allowing Reinhard to have it manifest wherever he wishes, allowing him to instantly teleport anywhere in the multiverse by using it as a launching pad. He can also summon the Einherjar he's obtained to do battle alongside him. They will constantly be restored by Reinhard's power should they somehow fall (even if their soul is destroyed), rendering it virtually impossible to try and thin their numbers. Some notable Einherjar include:

• Machina: Einherjar Nigredo. A powerful being that can erase the existence of whatever he hits with his fists as long as it has a history.
• Kaziklu Bey: A vampire who can drain the energy out of everything in his surroundings, regardless of whether or not they are organic, inorganic, tangible, or intangible.
• Tubal Cain: An immortal monster who has the ability to decompose anything, whether they be physical or intangible. Has an inferior replica of Reinhard's lance, which allows it to use the abilities of those it has slain.
• Hrozvitnir: Einherjar Albedo. Has the ability to always be faster than the opponent, regardless of whether they go beyond the speed of light or not.
• Samiel: Einherjar Rubedo. Her ability makes it so that her flames never miss (her false Briah makes it an ever-expanding fireball until it has taken out all the targets), has virtually infinite range and the heat exceeds the center of a nuclear explosion. Using the true form of her ability, she can transport the target and herself to the inside of the barrel of her holy relic, making it essentially impossible to escape as it is a pocket dimension unto itself.
• Malleus: Has the ability to manipulate shadows and can summon torture tools out from her own shadow. Anyone that steps on it will be paralyzed, even unable to breathe if she so desires.
• Valkyrie: Her Briah allows herself to become lightning, thus overwhelming her opponents with sheer speed.
• Leonhard: Has a Briah that allows her to become flames, much in the same manner as Valkyrie but without the speed boost. The flames are hot enough to instantly vaporize metal."

 

[Shining_Trapezohedron]

For one thing, Darsh cannot took on Gladsheim since he could used Judas priest and they wouldnt die. So he had no way of trying to keep up with the number of Reinhard Gladsheim and not too mention if Darsh is being persistence. Reinhard would instantly pull out "Dies Irae" to K.O Darsh definitely.

The fact that Reinhard could actually used everyone of his Legion, who are in fact soldier from Nazi regime......is already frightening. To makenthe matter worse, inside Reinhard stock of soul, he could have other Legion that have the ability to block or maybe even nullify Darsh Dispel Bound from being used against him. That is also something that we must take in account as well.

 

[EvilMegaCookie]

@Shining Trapezohedro:
Just out of curiosity, what specifically does Longinuslanze or Gladsheimer do at a conceptual level?

It simply deals damage on a spiritual, mental and conceptual level. With Machina's Briah it can outright erase conceptual stuff, like with Methuselah... Had Machina actually been able to hit. But another thing to note is that Methuselah is the physical manifestation of darkness, so it is thanks to that Machina would be able to do that.

My point is basically that Machina can't exactly target concepts per se, but if you have someone that is the embodiment of it, the concept they are would disappear along with them after being hit by Machina.

Does he have Dispel Bound at this stage? I thought it was something he only had in his stronger forms. Does it protect against, say, Longinuslanze ignoring distance and teleporting right into his face?

Judas Priest might simply be useless since with Gladsheimr active, the soul of himself and his Legion would simply regenerate from any damage done. I do think that with his 100 million strong Legion, he could overwhelm the barrier through numbers and using Nilfheimsr Fenriswolf to gain a speed advantage.

There is also the idea of using Wilhelm's Briah which creates a 500m+ large field that sucks the energy of anything within and allows the user to teleport anywhere along with creating stakes at the rate of several hundred per second. A rate that only increases as the absorption does. Along with boosting the physical parameters of the user while weakening the opponents. And disorients their senses.

Eleonore could simply keep assaulting with her Briah while Schreiber attacks using his own. All in all, an all-out assault while using Machina's Briah to erase the Dispel Bound might work.

The rest of the Legion would probably best serve as a distraction, but if he doesn't have enough space to move, they could further mow down the shields with their bullets. Then again, if I am not wrong a certain amount of power is required. Do they protect against spiritual damage as well? Since just blocking on the physical plane isn't enough.

I have to say Instant Victory is rather vague. Like, does it protect him from being one-shotted or what? Then why is it even possible to break through the Dispel Bounds in a single shot if they protect against something like that? At least I seem to remember there being such an incident.

Also, how fast is this incarnation of Schneider?

And Shining, Dies Irae isn't something he can do willy-nilly. It requires a certain ritual. And would make this match a stomp.

 

[Shining_Trapezohedron]

I didnt know that he needed a certain ritual to do that kind of OP stuff. What kind of a ritual is it ???

I dont think he even needed Dies Irae anyway since this is a 5-B match. I am just giving a "what if".

 

[Shining_Trapezohedron]

If I am not mistaken, Goldene Eihwas Swatsika also helps elevate his status to Atziluth (Dies Irae) as well.

 

[Sheoth]

@EvilMegaCookie:

Thanks for all of that clarification.

Dark Schneider doesn't embody any concepts as far as I know, so I am unsure what use Machina will have against him.

It is not apparently clear wether or not Dark Schneider has Dispel Bound in base. It's definitely possible, since in base he is on the same level as the base Seraphs who should all have Dispel Bound. Assuming he does have it, it should protect against something like Longinuslanze due to its anti-one hit KO ability, and the fact that all shields must be broken individually.

Assuming Judas Priest completely hits Reinhard, can Reinhard regenerate from nothing with the use of Gladsheimr?

Wilhelm's Briah sounds like a huge problem, buuuuuuuuut... Dispel Bound should protect against it?

Reinhard's Legion could help, but I am unsure if they have the necessary power to break through the Dispel Bound shields. Yes, a certain amount of power is required to break through each shield. The strength of the shield can be assumed to be dependent on the power of the user, since Konron was shown unable to harm Dark Schnieder or get through his shield once he became Majin Dark Schneider. And the shields should definitely protect against spiritual damage as well.

The instant-victory thing is vague, as are the other listed dangers, but they can still be explained. The whole concept of Dispel Bound is that you must get rid of all the shields before you can attack the user and destroy his/her eternal atoms. The only way to do this is by breaking each shield individually, and fast enough before they regenerate. Judas Priest could have killed Uriel if he didn't have his Dispel Bound up because it attacks the body, mind, and soul at the same time, which is why Dark Schneider had to get rid of Dispel Bound first by punching it away fast enough. Judas Priest can be seen as an "instant victory" type attack since most people (including Uriel) would be one-shotted by it, and it couldn't get through Dispel Bound on its own. The incident you are likely referring to is DKL Dark Schneider being harmed by Uriel's second attack, seemingly bypassing Dispel Bound completely. However, after re-reading that part of the Manga, I believe that Uriel and Dark Schneider simply didn't have their Dispel Bounds activated, since they had already been completly broken by each other earlier.

And this Dark Schneider is MFTL+, but that shouldn't matter anyway since speed is equalized.

 

[Shining_Trapezohedron]

Darsh is not beyond concept nor do I think dispel bound can protect against Machina Briah to destroy even concept of anykind with the exception of higher dimension.

And Dispel Bound if I am not mistaken are only activate when he is in Majin Dark Schneider and its never mention if he really had it when he is in his 5-B form.

I doubt that Judas Priest would be able to one hit Reinhard that easily since the guy had a huge stock of soul. So Darsh would need to do that many if not MULTIPLE TIMES in order to K.O Reinhard.

As for Wilheim Briah, it wont even matter since he could just absorb the energy of everything around him to continue to increase the speed and strength of the spike even further to the point where they coukd easily break through Dispel Bound. Base on Wilheim Briah Profile, of course.

Here is the thing its said about about Dispel Bound in the profile, it will work a lot when the opponent is weaker than Darsh. So the instant victory thing will only work if the opponent is weaker than Darsh. Since Uriel and Darsh are equal to each other, they have a problem of break each other shield. If Darsh was stronger than Uriel then he would have kill Uriel easily. Darsh and Uriel already broke each other Dispel Bound and they are tired to even use their Dispel Bound if I am not wrong about.

Beside, like I said, there could be someone in Reinhard million of Legion that have the ability to instantly bypass Dispel Bound.

 

[EliminatorVenom]

@Sheoth

While I do agree that Darsh wins, I must point out something: Machina's punches don't just erases "embodied concepts" out of existance. It instantly erases anything that has a history. Like, if you were born, if you grew, if someone planned to create you (And did), you will be erased.

Unless you can counter that, or just avoid being punched.

 

[Shining_Trapezohedron]

That is exactly what I am trying to say about Machina Briah. Machina briah weakness is that you needed to be in higher dimension or just avoid contact with his fist altogether.

Whats going to stopped Reinhard from summoning Gladsheim in order to gain some foothold against Darsh.

 

[CrossverseCrisis]

This is the full description we have of Machina's that EVenom and Shining said as well as the weakness for using it.

"Midgardr Völsunga Saga: Machina's Gudou-type Briah, his desire being "I want to die with a single end". When activated, all of Machina's punches have the effect of erasing the existence of their target as long as they have a history (Which can include every single second of your life, and works on material and immaterial beings, and even inanimate objects). This even applies to concepts (As they have existed since the Big Bang). The only possible way to bypass this ability is to be higher-dimensional (As it is impossible for Machina to actually hit them), or to simply avoid contact with his fists."

 

[Fabtastic_Glasses]

IMO Reinhard win this mid - high diff mainly because Machina's Briah

 

[EvilMegaCookie]

@EvilMegaCookie:
Thanks for all of that clarification.

Dark Schneider doesn't embody any concepts as far as I know, so I am unsure what use Machina will have against him.

It is not apparently clear wether or not Dark Schneider has Dispel Bound in base. It's definitely possible, since in base he is on the same level as the base Seraphs who should all have Dispel Bound. Assuming he does have it, it should protect against something like Longinuslanze due to its anti-one hit KO ability, and the fact that all shields must be broken individually.

Assuming Judas Priest completely hits Reinhard, can Reinhard regenerate from nothing with the use of Gladsheimr?

Wilhelm's Briah sounds like a huge problem, buuuuuuuuut... Dispel Bound should protect against it?

Reinhard's Legion could help, but I am unsure if they have the necessary power to break through the Dispel Bound shields. Yes, a certain amount of power is required to break through each shield. The strength of the shield can be assumed to be dependent on the power of the user, since Konron was shown unable to harm Dark Schnieder or get through his shield once he became Majin Dark Schneider. And the shields should definitely protect against spiritual damage as well.

The instant-victory thing is vague, as are the other listed dangers, but they can still be explained. The whole concept of Dispel Bound is that you must get rid of all the shields before you can attack the user and destroy his/her eternal atoms. The only way to do this is by breaking each shield individually, and fast enough before they regenerate. Judas Priest could have killed Uriel if he didn't have his Dispel Bound up because it attacks the body, mind, and soul at the same time, which is why Dark Schneider had to get rid of Dispel Bound first by punching it away fast enough. Judas Priest can be seen as an "instant victory" type attack since most people (including Uriel) would be one-shotted by it, and it couldn't get through Dispel Bound on its own. The incident you are likely referring to is DKL Dark Schneider being harmed by Uriel's second attack, seemingly bypassing Dispel Bound completely. However, after re-reading that part of the Manga, I believe that Uriel and Dark Schneider simply didn't have their Dispel Bounds activated, since they had already been completly broken by each other earlier.

And this Dark Schneider is MFTL+, but that shouldn't matter anyway since speed is equalized.

I am just unsure of how useful Judas Pain is in this scenario considering that Gladsheimr allows for the Regenerationn of the soul and body. Wilhelm, with the boost of Einherjar, kept regenerating the instant he took any damage while Methuselah's time acceleration went from thousands of years to billions of years every second. A time acceleration that deals damage to the soul (ages) as well. To be fair, souls being able to age is a rather uncommon concept as I know it. But I digress.

Would Wilhelm's Briah weaken the shields or bypass them completely due to how it works? It can also create stakes anywhere (except inside the body of the target) after all. Case in point: Stake manifesting in front of the eye or behind the neck.

Nilfheimsr Fenriswolf gives Reinhard a speed advantage as well, what with its "your speed +1" shenanigans. But it feels like Machina's Briah is Reinhard's best shot at winning this, since I suspect that the Legion has far too low potency in order to deal any sufficient damage to the shields. Although accumulating damage might work, considering a 100 million strong army smashing its way or shooting its way into you isn't exactly something one walks off. Especially with all of their attacks dealing damage to the soul.

Eleonore's flames would probably be useful in constantly withering him down due to its continuous effect.

While Schneider can certainly take him out, I feel like his means are countered by Gladsheimr which provides a massive boost in Regenerationn. And if it comes to a contest of endurance? Well, Reinhard has been shown to keep up Gladsheimr for several months and Wilhelm kept fighting as time accelerated without even getting tired. I think he wins in this category.

Do we assume that the shields still have their MFTL+ Regenerationn or do we assume they are nerfed to give a fair shot? Unless Reinhard's speed is boosted to Schneider's own.

By which I see the Legion except Schreiber being useless since they range from anywhere hypersonic to MHS+. Eleonore might be due to her "never missing" Briah, but that is about it. So it seems like using Machina's Briah in conjunction with Longinuslanze might be the best approach.

Edit: Which reminds me: Is it possible to whittle down the shields or do they function like Godhand, where only damage above a certain treshold gets through?

 

[TISSG7Redgrave]

since i also read Bastard EMC let me see i think the shields only whittle down if you constantly destroy them not one hit at like 1 second you must do it considerably in quick succesion to break all the barriers and the opponent must be the same level of strength or higher to have any hope of breaking them that quickly if you are weaker than the person with dispel bound than you can't break it as effective as it could have if the opponent was at equal power or more powerful

edit: this is at least my interpretation sheoth can interpret it better i'm sure this is the best on how i can explain it

 

[EvilMegaCookie]

I see. So it is possible to whittle down as long as you keep attacking at a fast enough rate.

It feels like this might very well be inconclusive, although I feel like this leans on Reinhard's side since he has Machina's Briah that could potentially pretty much one-shot Darsh or the Dispel Bound.

That and he'd constantly have an edge in speed due to Schreibers Briah. But I feel like I am just repeating myself at this point.

 

[EliminatorVenom]

Wait, looking back at this... Are the Dispel Bounds immune to being erased from existance, forever?

 

[Shining_Trapezohedron]

I dont think, Dispel bound can be immune to being erased forever. They can be break, yes but I dont think they are even that immune to being erased forever since they still just barrier.

 

[TISSG7Redgrave]

Wait, looking back at this... Are the Dispel Bounds immune to being erased from existance, forever?

i doubt it protects itself from being erased from existance Machina's briah erases thing that have a history like how you erase your history in your laptop since dispel bound has one it is most likely will be erased leaving DS wide open (at least that scenario goes at the top of my head :/)

 

[EliminatorVenom]

i doubt it protects itself from being erased from existance Machina's briah erases thing that have a history like how you erase your history in your laptop since dispel bound has one it is most likely will be erased leaving DS wide open (at least that scenario goes at the top of my head :/)

Yeah, I was thinking the same thing. I mean, with Schreiber's Briah + Machina's Briah, there's nothing stopping him from speedblitzing Schneider, forever destroying the Dispel Bounds with a punch each, so that even if they were to start to regenerate, they wouldn't, cuz Machina Briah shenanigans. Once he's wide open, well, Darsh's screwed.

Then, I change my vote to Reinhard, with high difficulties.

 

[EvilMegaCookie]

i doubt it protects itself from being erased from existance Machina's briah erases thing that have a history like how you erase your history in your laptop since dispel bound has one it is most likely will be erased leaving DS wide open (at least that scenario goes at the top of my head :/)

Yeah, I was thinking the same thing. I mean, with Schreiber's Briah + Machina's Briah, there's nothing stopping him from speedblitzing Schneider, forever destroying the Dispel Bounds with a punch each, so that even if they were to start to regenerate, they wouldn't, cuz Machina Briah shenanigans. Once he's wide open, well, Darsh's screwed.

Then, I change my vote to Reinhard, with high difficulties.

I think he also has an edge in Regenerationn speed and stamina. So while Schneider has a plethora of hax and spells, I feel like the combo you mentioned would probably settle it. If not, it'd probably boil down to a contest of endurance. Which I personally think easily falls to the favor of Reinhard. I mean, the man does have the earnest desire of wanting to battle for all eternity. And as Einherjar show, they can keep fighting for 60+ years without even getting tired.

Or in the more extreme case of Wilhelm where he kept fighting even whilst Methuselah's time acceleration was active.

 

[CrossverseCrisis]

ALright.

Updated the tally so now it's about 6 for Reinhard (partly due to EVenom having changed his vote to Reinhard earlier), and 3 now for Darsh. With 1 being inconclusive still..

 

[TISSG7Redgrave]

gonna bump this up for ya cross this match is too good to not be settled

 

[CrossverseCrisis]

That's fine dude.

 

[LordAizenSama]

Common Sheoth defend your character!!

 

[TISSG7Redgrave]

what is your vote though @Aizen?

 

[LordAizenSama]

I've got no opinion on this, inconclusive I guess?

 

[Shining_Trapezohedron]

At this point, Reinhard won through high difficulty due to the fact that he wouldnt know Darsh ability before hand and the same could go for Darsh as well. But out that aside, Reinhard hax are ******* INSANE. Darsh would put up a great fight but even he will fell before Longinuslanze Testament including Reinhard power and ability that he got at his disposal.

 

[Kahndaq_Lord]

changed my vote, reinhard stomps, not even darshe's regen isn't going to help, reinhard is simply too much hax