Dante / Devil May Cry Downgrade

[Matthew_Schroeder]

So.

Currently Dante, Sparda and Mundus are all rated as "Possibly 3-A" due to Mundus' Dimension Creating feat, which according to the game's creator Hideki Kamiya on twitter, is a universe.

The problems with this:

• Firstly, not once in Devil May Cray has powers of this capacity been depicted ever again.

• 2 Secondly, the feat in game is incredibly vague, and it just appears as if Mundus is teleporting / BFRing the two

• 3 Lastly, and most important of all: Hideki Kamiya is a massive troll.

Spend three minutes on his Twitter Account and you'll see him treating fans like garbage, answering legitimate questions with answers such as "Ask your mom" or "Ask him" or even "Play Devil May Cry 6". After he actually answered the Mundus question, which being frankly is an incredibly vague one-word response, he received several other power level questions regarding his games, all of which he responded with mockery or aggression.

Kamiya couldn't care less about the powers of his characters, and thinks that the people who care are dumber than him. Accepting a one word correction he gave on twitter once is absurd, considering his track-record with fan responses.

 

[Drellix]

I'm in agreement with this.

 

[Celestial_Pegasus]

Agreed with this, i always thought placing the characters that high based on twitter comment incredibly shaky.

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

It also goes against our site's very rules.

"Please note that a franchise that does not have anything indicating beyond planet level feats will NOT be upgraded to Tier 2 or above under any circumstances."

 

[Austrian-Man-Meat]

Hideki Kamiya only trolls those who constantly spams him with an onslaught of questions he has already answered prior, check his other responses to people asking questions regarding his game. They're obviously different than the others (such as clarifying that the masks some enemies wear is modeled after the JoJo one.) And that applies to the response I got too, it's pretty clear Hideki actually put some thought into that response since he had to take a number of factors into consideration. Such as confirming that it was no mere teleportation, or bfr and lastly confirming the dimension/space he created was universal in size. You're right, he cares less about the powers of his characters. But he does care about giving clarification to certain events within his cutscenes.

Dante was given a super buff of sorts to tackle Mundus in the first game, he is only able to harm the latter due to his fathers sword and dt form he gained from it. It's only until Devil May Cry 2 that we really see Dante canonically surpass/equal his father, and he is clearly shown taking care of his enemies with the upmost of ease. Including Argosax who was able to distort the human world from within his confines of the demon world.

 

[Hop_Hoppington-Hoppenhiemer]

Hmm, after checking the page, AMM does have a good point. However he still is a joker. Gonna reamin neutral on this, and say we ignore the ranking they are at, and not do a specific downgrade unstil we get clearer results.

"'Unknow, possibly ___'" would be the best approach until we figure this out.

 

[Brunout]

"Firstly, not once in Devil May Cray has powers of this capacity been depicted ever again"

Uh, what about Mundus apparently merging both dimensions in the Manga?

 

[WeeklyBattles]

I honestly still think Mundus' 3-A is via hax. I'm not saying he didnt do it, im just saying it couldve been through reality warping that isnt combat applicable...

 

[Austrian-Man-Meat]

However he still is a joker.

I already went into detail on why this is the case, if you recieve hundreds of messages weekly containing the same old questions you already answered. Would your responses be anymore different? And furthermore, its upsetting that because of this relatable attitude users believe clarification he gives regarding the events of a cutscene should be taken into doubt. Should we start tossing out his statements regarding the masks resemblance to JoJo's too?

 

[Peter_"Quicksilver"_Maximoff]

Another DMC Downgrade? sigh....

 

[Austrian-Man-Meat]

I honestly still think Mundus' 3-A is via hax. I'm not saying he didnt do it, im just saying it couldve been through reality warping that isnt combat applicable...

You need some explicit evidence for this, which is not present. Since 3-A via hax feats involve rather complex means of creating a universe, also bear in mind that creation does not fall under this category as our tier guide suggests.

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

"Firstly, not once in Devil May Cray has powers of this capacity been depicted ever again"
Uh, what about Mundus apparently merging both dimensions in the Manga?

Is this a thing? show me, then I can believe in 3-A.

 

[Austrian-Man-Meat]

Is this a thing? show me, then I can believe in 3-A.

I believe that such a thing was already disproved, and a big reason that discussions regarding Mundus being 3-A was something people should not do and implemented in the rules.

 

[Brunout]

I thought that what was disproved was the demon and human world having universe size, not Mundus merging both worlds.

Also, I said apparently.

 

[Ryukama]

I don't think Hideki's joke responses during other, entirely unrelated events should negate his word when he is simply clarifying something in his story in a serious manner.

It'd be essentially taking away the author authority he has over his own works just because he sometimes likes messing around. We all like joking around, and his credibility when being serious shouldn't be taken away just because he does as well occasionally.

This "the series hasn't shown this capacity again" also shouldn't be taken into account, or else a lot of people would have to get downgraded if we did this, especially those who get their ratings through powerscaling.

 

[Aparajita]

snip

This. Against the downgrade.

 

[Amelia_Lonelyheart]

snip

Ryu basically summed up my opinion on the matter. I too am against this downgrade.

 

[Cropfist]

Against the downgrade for reasons above.

 

[Ryukama]

I believe another important thing to note is that this isn't just Hideki saying "Oh yeah Mundus can create a universe" in a tweet without anything within the games to support it.

Mundus actually created a universe within the cutscene, but due to the way the feat was portrayed, it was difficult for people to understand that. Hence Hideki confirmed that it was indeed a universe being created and not something else when asked.

This isn't an author statement. This is an actual feat which now has the author confirming that it can't be seen as anything but that.

To discard Hideki's word because the feat could look like something else, despite direct confirmation it isn't, would be like saying Marble Alie is only 3-B, since the marble looks more like a galaxy, despite the authors explicitly saying it's a unvierse.

And once again this "Hideki trolls other people" doesn't seem like a suitable point to me as he clearly wasn't in this case.

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

• pouts*

B-B-B-But... But...

 

[Celestial_Pegasus]

Well in that case i don't agree with the downgrades, say this seems to be a topic that gets argued a lot, seems a bit tedious having to answer it over and over again but that's just the impression i get from just observing, i don't know much about devil may cry.

 

[Salavtore]

He maybe a troll but, it doesn't sound like he was trolling when someone asked him the question about mundus.

I don't know if its wise to go against the creators words themselves

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

Sighs...

Fine. Whatever.

I kinda worry how continuing to ranking Dante at 3-A will do to our reputation, though. Practicaly everyone I've seen takes it as a complete joke.

 

[Dragonmasterxyz]

^Same. I've seen so many people doubt our credibility due to this. It really bothers me tbh.

 

[Ryukama]

People are always going to be dissatisfied with our ratings in some way or another. We can't please everyone and our ratings will not always be agreed upon by everyone due to a variety of different opinions, biases, interpretations or the fact that we are not and like every other site never can be perfect with everything.

I'm pretty sure there are a lot of things like Kirby being stronger than Buu, Marvel being a lot weaker, 4-B Cell and a bunch of other highly controversal topics that many people don't like us for.

We can't be a slave to these opinions however. If Dante being 3-A has considerable evidence and logical arguments to be made, then we can't simply not have him rated as that cause we're scared of what people who couldn't actually refute this would say.

On top of that our reputation will be FAR worse if we show we give in to popular opinion rather than facts and evidence.

This site strives to being as accurate as possible, not making everyone happy by setting characters where they think they should be.

 

[PostmodernD]

Yeah, I think the evidence for his 3-A ranking is fine. I can't really add much to what others said. RyuKama and Austrian-Man-Meat seem to have hit the nail on the head.

 

[Austrian-Man-Meat]

On another note, I have two proposals. We remove the 5-B stuff from Dante's page. No clue why thats there and not just the 3-A ranking, and since this is a clarification statement more than anything else I also suggest that "possibly" change to "likely"

 

[Professor_Voodoo]

People are always going to be dissatisfied with our ratings in some way or another. We can't please everyone and our ratings will not always be agreed upon by everyone due to a variety of different opinions, biases, interpretations or the fact that we are not and like every other site never can be perfect with everything.

This. I can't even count how many times people have ragged on this site or said it (or Wikis in general) is not reliable/is biased.

I remember this fable. Try to please everyone, and you end up pleasing no one.

 

[Dragonmasterxyz]

I guess that's true. I still find this shaky but whatever.... Never said I would agree with everything here.

 

[Ryukama]

With that being said, since there seems to be a large consensus on keeping the ratings where they are, I'll be closing this thread.

Come to my wall if you feel it should be reopened or want to tell me anything else regarding this.

@AMM since the original topic of this thread is concluded, I'd prefer you make a new one for that if you choose to.