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Dante (6-A) vs Accelerator

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^i would say that accel takes R2 with high diff, except for timestop dante doesnt have much to win, afterall if his first usage of "special energy" isnt killing him, than accel should be immun against it,

so i go with: R1 no diff for dante and R2 high diff for accel
 
Accelerator has never been shown to controle moon rock so i guess he cant. He controles vectors,vector quanitys,and things that increase vector quanitys. Such as how he can controle an objects magnitude but not direction of vice versa. Wich would make a scaler have the direction of every thing it is affacting making it a vector. On accelerators page it said he could controle any vector he comes in contact with,in this case time is a vector becaus it has the direction of all the objects it is affecting from dante. Im goona leave and never come back because i dont even like any of these charaters so this is a waist of my time. Also not including this could accelerator not just refilct the energy of his attack?
 
DAnte slows down time not stops it ,and in that case accelerator would still be able to calculate his refliction. But the first thing i said is true to
 
Zetos4500 said:
DAnte slows down time not stops it ,and in that case accelerator would still be able to calculate his refliction. But the first thing i said is true to
Click to expand...
It depends on how slow time becomes,

think about it, accelerators shield is lightspeed, and the shield depends on his subconscious mind that is able to react to UV rays, so, if time is slowed down, anything else would move faster for him (and also for his mind).

That means that is someone punches him with 40 km/h it will be reflected. If someone slows time by a billion times, than the 40 km/h will be increased in speed and become like lightspeed, at least for the vector barrier, and since it isnt a real wall that exists all the time (and instead it reacts to the incoming forces) it would mean that the enemy can attack accel (because the slowed down subconscious mind cant calculate fast enough).

But this should be discussed somewhere else. I already gave my vote ^_^

PS: the thing with "time" is, everything we currently base it on is theoretical, so if there is no "evidence" or hint that supports that he can actually do something with time, it would be wrong to assume that he can do it :)
 
Accelerator's VC shield is automatic, meaning any thing that has a vector and comes in contact with the shield will instantly reverse it's direction, accel doesn't control the reflection, he has to actively cancel it to let things like gravity and light through it.VC shield by definition will work as long as time is flowing, no matter how slow, and Dante can't time stop.
 
KazarianFahs said:
Accelerator's VC shield is automatic, meaning any thing that has a vector and comes in contact with the shield will instantly reverse it's direction, accel doesn't control the reflection, he has to actively cancel it to let things like gravity and light through it.VC shield by definition will work as long as time is flowing, no matter how slow, and Dante can't time stop.
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the shield isnt a wall, his subconsicousness is calculating and reversing the vectors and this fast enough inorder to reverse UV rays,

that means that if someone slows down the calc speed of his subconsciousness mind, it will also slow down the reaction of the VC shield, and with that, a normal punch can be to fast for the VC shield to calculate and execute the reaction (if the slowed time is to much) ^_^
 
Wow i visited this again. Dark matter sent a ton of light attacks a accelerator each blast would have billions of light rays to deflect from each blast meaning it is at least a billion times the speed of light because of the billions of rays. Still with this logic just because it only went to continent level does not mean that is max their is plenty of evdince that it can reflict any vector, becides the ones that trick his refliction. He has stated that i inverts direction. It cant be based on magnitude because it would take more calculatoons and he uses minimal calculation for it. If you freez time his calculations would be frozen to leaving them the same as they were before time stoped, but dante slows down time so the calculations would still take ful effect because if i do2+2=4 its affect would still be active if that would some how be a vector quanity. It just makes you slower not the enime faster so accelerator still would reflict all his attacks.
 
First off... deflecting a million beams of radiation simultaneously doesn't make you a billion times faster than light, they were all coming at the same speed, so they were all coming at the speed of light or below it (with the latter being more likely due to air resistance).

Second, we avoid the "regardless of magnitude" argument since it seems like a NLF (will Accelerator be able to tank an energy attack from the likes of Arceus? Probably not.) Otherwise wankers will be throwing him against people like Seiya and Goku constantly.

Third, if you want to learn the mechanics of Accelerator's ability (which does not include time manipulation at all), ask LazyHunter or LordAizenSama. They're the authorities on the series on this wiki and they'll probably give a MUCH better explanation than I can.
 
It seems that what everybody is failing to realize is it doesn't matter what sort of attack Dante uses, there are only a few conclusive ways to bypass the Vector field Accelerator produces, and Dante either A: Doesn't know it, or B: doesn't have the means to achieve it.


First off, Accelerator's passive reflection field is subconscious; it requires only basic calculations to maintain. Vectors are anything with magnitude and direction; moon rock is no exception as it has both of those quantities as it has length and direction.


Not only this, but the Accelerator page on this site is somewhat inaccurate. Accelerator can manipulate time in Angel form, as he understands conceptual and imaginary laws, and has been shown to control vectors that, for all intensive purposes, don't actually exist.


Nothing Dante has in his arsenal contains unknown vectors or no vectors at all. Dante, to be quite honest, is screwed against Accelerator.
 
The Teller Of Stories said:
Not only this, but the Accelerator page on this site is somewhat inaccurate. Accelerator can manipulate time in Angel form, as he understands conceptual and imaginary laws, and has been shown to control vectors that, for all intensive purposes, don't actually exist.
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no he doesnt, and i also cant remember having the LN mentioned that he would suddenly understand concepts and imaginary laws...
 
GreatestSin said:
The Teller Of Stories said:
Not only this, but the Accelerator page on this site is somewhat inaccurate. Accelerator can manipulate time in Angel form, as he understands conceptual and imaginary laws, and has been shown to control vectors that, for all intensive purposes, don't actually exist.
Click to expand...
no he doesnt, and i also cant remember having the LN mentioned that he would suddenly understand concepts and imaginary laws...
Click to expand...
An example of Accelerator understanding concepts and imaginary laws is during his fight with Kakine, where Kakine's Dark Matter follows concepts unknown to him. Another example is when he understood Aiwass' Imaginary Laws.
 
^kakine doesnt have concepts or the like in dark matter, he simply has rules outside of the known physical laws, that allows him to bend physical laws and, for example, make normal light into harmful lasers :]

and im not sure if aiwass had imaginary laws, but more like unknown laws, either way, it doesnt matter because accel never understood them, he stopped the network from reaching him, therefore weakening aiwass's manifested body, than he shot againt the core and destroyed it, causing aiwass to vanish :)
 
GreatestSin said:
^kakine doesnt have concepts or the like in dark matter, he simply has rules outside of the known physical laws, that allows him to bend physical laws and, for example, make normal light into harmful lasers :]
and im not sure if aiwass had imaginary laws, but more like unknown laws, either way, it doesnt matter because accel never understood them, he stopped the network from reaching him, therefore weakening aiwass's manifested body, than he shot againt the core and destroyed it, causing aiwass to vanish :)
Click to expand...
The concepts that Accelerator originally did not understand was how Kakine was transforming the light through diffiusion into harmful light. Accelerator would later analyze the 25,000 different energies of the Dark Matter to reflect both it and the wings. Along with this, Aiwass' imaginary laws come in the form of his 'mysterious vectors' that bypassed Accelerator's Black Wing and field. At the time, Accel did not have the means of understanding his laws, but after his proper Awakening, he could control imaginary and unknown vectors. Essentially, he can give a vectorless object vectors, along with manipulating ones that previously eluded him.
 
^ Okay, I wasn't really planning to comment in this thread again since I had already given my opinion that it was either a stomp or inconclusive, but just looking at the comments you made in recent Accelerator threads it's obvious you have some misconceptions about Accelerator's power. I'll try to keep the explanations simple, but a wall of text is kind of unavoidable here. If you have doubts or problems about how we rate Accelerator you can use this thread, since this is not the place to debate those.

Now, Accelerator definitely can't manipulate conceptual/imaginary laws/vectors, and he can't manipulate time. You bring up Kakine's Dark Matter and Aiwass. Well, Kakine's Dark Matter presented the same problem to Accelerator that magic does. It doesn't follow the normal laws of physics which are the rules Accelerator has more knowledge of, so his Reflection doesn't work as well as it does with normal attacks. Even so, Dark Matter's and magic's are merely "unknown" laws to him. These unknown laws are in no way conceptual or imaginary, they are unknown simply in the sense Accelerator didn't understand them at first, since Kakine makes up his own laws for his Dark Matter and Accel had never fought magic before World War III in the novels.

I think that what you are claiming is something I've seen before. It all comes from misunderstanding a scene in WWIII where Accelerator is trying to decipher a magic parchment to help him heal Last Order. I admit it kind of bothers me, since it's one of my favorite scenes in my favorite arc of the series.

Short Explanation:

He does pretty well with the parchment, doing a job that would normally a computer take hundreds of years on the fly, since math is kind of an esper's (especially Accelerator's) thing. Then he is stumped. He's trying to put the info he has gathered together like a puzzle, but some of it makes absolutely no sense to him (because it's a magic parchment which also uses the laws of magic, and Accel has no clue how magic works). But then he realizes, this has happened to him before, when Aiwass casually stomped him.

Accel took the info he had gathered with his body from those attacks, from those unknown laws, and put together an inference and a formula close enough to reality so that he could use magic that would work and save Last Order. No applying vectors to vectorless forces or objects, no manipulating time, nothing. That's it, he merely used the knowledge from Aiwass' attacks to understand magic enough so that he could use it.

Here's the relevant quotes, from Vol 22, Chapter 11 Part 1

"I can't solve the puzzle," Accelerator readily admitted. "I'm missing a piece, so I can't use just math. I can manage up to a certain point, but something is definitely off. It's like I'm trying to calculate Pi and an error occurs at the 100th digit every time. There's some other kind of laws mixed in. Unless I can fill in the missing piece, I can't correct for this error. The further I continue the calculations, the greater the error spreads until I've lost sight of what I'm trying to find."

"I can't do this with math, but I have to solve it somehow, so I've brought together every single bit of knowledge I have. I do have the #1 brain in Academy City after all. I'm not particularly proud of it, but I have a lot packed in here. And so I started doing a selfsearch through every part of my head pulling out every kind of information and just pulling it out and pulling it out and pulling it out."


"I already have things I can't understand inputted within me."

"I first thought of the previous battle between the water angel and the scientific angel, but that wasn't the right answer. Before that, well before that, I understood it with my own body."

"I was unable to reflect an unknown attack. It just went straight through my defenses and cut my body in two. I couldn't come up with a single way of dealing with it. I was utterly defeated at that time."

"But it wasn't that the attack did not have vectors. I'm sure I had those unknown laws inputted into my body from Aiwass back then."


He needed to establish nonexistent vector axes that could deal with what seemed off. He needed to think of math dealing with things such as imaginary numbers that did not actually exist in the real world but that could be explained using purely mathematical calculations. He had to calculate what the values were from the vectors before his eyes in order to determine what laws were used to create them. He could not figure it all out just from Aiwass. Aiwass was a nonstandard monster. A fragment of an asteroid altered by tremendous heat was nothing more than a rock in and of itself. However, using high level formulas on it could become a key to guessing at the spread of the universe from the big bang.

Of course, he may not be able to grasp a perfect picture of it, but he could put together an inference that was exceedingly close to the truth.


"By mixing in nonexistent math similar to imaginary numbers into the contents of the parchments and inputting just one line of a unique physical formula, it rises to the surface. But that isn't what's important. Once I have solved the puzzle using the rules I put together myself, the mysterious Aiwass vectors in my head have been cut down to an inference exceedingly close to reality on the same level as the big bang theory. In other words," Accelerator paused for a second, "I have the parameters needed to save this brat. Now is the time to turn this around."


The massive formula was outputted into the world in the form of song data.

Misaka Worst may have been surprised as she watched from the side, but it was nothing special. In the past, Accelerator had eliminated Amai Ao's virus using his own power. This was merely in a different form, so there was no reason he shouldn't be able to do it. He had everything he needed. All he had to do was keep it in the best condition through to the end and produce the desired results like he was a machine.


He was reminded of a ball rolling down a slope.

At the bottom of slope was a cliff.

If he continued to adjust his equations, he would cross a decisive line. Whatever he analyzed, Accelerator was an existence living within the normal physical laws. He himself would not be immersed just by knowing of the mysterious laws.

He would cross that line.

He would be swallowed up by the mysterious laws.

Accelerator knew that, but he did not stop. He continued on. He shot down the slope in a straight line. He could already see the edge of the cliff. Accelerator saw that deep hole as a gate. He unhesitatingly headed forward and leapt into the bottomless darkness. He crossed that line in an instant. Immediately afterwards, a change occurred.

"…!!!???"

With a cracking noise, something within his body let out a cry. The blood vessels on the back of his hand swelled up oddly. He became strongly aware that he had thick blood pipelines running from his fingertips to his shoulders. As soon as he noticed that, something tore. His skin ripped from the inside and a dark-red liquid squirted out.

Had he realized it?

By breathing in a way impossible for a normal person and using vibrations from his entire body rather than just his throat, he had let out an extremely special voice. With that voice, he was refining his life force into magic power, putting together a spell, and outputting it into the real world. In other words, he was using true magic.

So basically, all the things you keep repeating are just technobabble/fancy words that Accelerator is using to describe how he approaches magic from his scientific viewpoint. All he's doing is casting a simple healing spell, not even close to the things you're claiming he can do.
 
wow lazy hunter that is a ton XD but yeah it seems a bit ridiculous that if he understands the conceptual and imaginary laws he automatically controls time
 
If accelerator can controle/create wings,what vectors did he make them from unknown/unexplainabul vectors,he had nouthing to make them from. He can change the way his refliction to reflect the energy so he wont even be slower from donte in the first place. what are hisother wings made of,gray ones from the show,and white from the book,i know what the black ones are made of. He was controling vectors with out tuching them in the book in angle mode only some tho so i dont think he can do his blood thing. To create wings he would have to use multipul scalers dependin on how he did it. His wings calculate for him when he had the wings sometimes. I cant wait fore some one to tell me this never happened because i read it, and i defnitly know how to read.
 
Wow no one replyed yet well im board so i came back.time is not a vector because its direction can not be naturly shown but if time freezes or reverses itwould be a vector quanity,look it up if you dont under stand vector laws. His page said he could controle any vector he comes in contact with,note do not go around saying accelerator can controle time because he only could if it was given a direction by some one controling it . As i said in one of the other chats im not buffing accelerator their are plenty of chraters in his verse that would destroy him even if he could controle time naturaly but he cant. If accelerator went against a god of time or time its self he could not do any thing because he could not figure it out evenif the direction was mesureabul,he would have no way to understand it in that case :) dont say any thing about me because at least i have evidence you can look this up it is true i may be wrong about somthing but if i am dont say any thing unless you have evidence ;) just drags on the conversation on.
 
I don't think Accelerator can grasp the concept of space being sliced, dimensional telportation sure, but the mechanics behind dimensional cutting is another thing entirely.
 
Well, considering the fact that other characters in the series on his level are able to use such attacks (i.e. Carissa) and pretty much everyone is able to perceive and react to them, I don't see why not.
 
^aguila only mentioned that he doubts that accel could make himself "immune" against such attacks, not that he wouldnt be able to dodge them :)
 
Again, I don't see why not since they're well within range of Accel's calculations.

Either way, I doubt it matters due to time hax.
 
^accel never showed any indication of being able to calculate "space" or a actual "rip through a dimension" which is different than the 11th dimension teleport vectors, therefore it is NFL if we say he could reflect something like that :)
 
i can see why people would think accelerator can control imaginary physics because of personal reality. im not entirely sure how it works, but from what i can see, it means implementing ones own reality into the reality that we all know. in essence, his personal reality combined with his awakened stats might allow him to 'induce' a vector into an otherwise vectorless object.

im not quite sure if that's how it works, but it makes sense to me ^^
 
GreatestSin said:
^accel never showed any indication of being able to calculate "space" or a actual "rip through a dimension" which is different than the 11th dimension teleport vectors, therefore it is NFL if we say he could reflect something like that :)
Click to expand...
He's still calculating up to the eleventh dimension. Besides, Dante's dimensional rips have velocity since they move in a direction. Therefore, Accelerator can turn them around.
 
As I've mentioned, I believe that since both Toaru's teleporters and Yamato are "three-dimensional objects negating durability by displacing matter due to dimensional interactions", it's not really forced to assume that Accel can reflect Yamato with verse equalization in play. I mean, the only way to really check if dimensional slicing would work differently would be for Accel to fight Carissa, which I don't see happening anytime soon.

Not that it matters. Round 1 is a stomp for Dante due to time manipulation that Accel has no way to even try to counter so that he can fight back, and Round 2 is Inconclusive.
 
Reppuzan said:
He's still calculating up to the eleventh dimension. Besides, Dante's dimensional rips have velocity since they move in a direction. Therefore, Accelerator can turn them around.
Click to expand...
he only reflected the 11th dimension vectors, and this also only via a statement of him or the word of god, a feat of that was never shown :/

as for the attacks: the attack in itself must be understood in order to send it back, kakine used a laserbeam of unknown elements at some point and it went through accels VS, only after understanding the actual elements which created the beam he was able to reflect it,

a dimensional rip is higher than anything we have seen him reflect "on screen" so far...
 
@Reppuzan

Yes, he can, if he can understand it. But In my opinion, He could only achieve it if he were a level 6.

If I didn't remember it wrongly, The novel itself said that Magic can't be explained by science. And the fact that Accelerator can only do some vector stuff with things related to physical world.

The fact that he could reflect some part of magic because they had 'something familiar to the physical world'.
 
I don't recall Dante having any magical projectiles that don't follow the laws of physics (i.e. lack direction).

No, he cannot stop Dante's time hax. But he can certainly reflect charged bullets and dimensional tears.
 
TISSG7Redgrave said:
his sword rebellion is actually magic as a property that is
Click to expand...
That in itself won't really mean anything to Accel.
 
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