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Due to the removal of the lightspeed Ghost Ray which was brought up in this thread, the Danny Phantom pages need their speed justifications/descriptions revised since it seems to some people that the lightspeed Ghost Ray was the main thing supporting the verse being FTL, which it wasn't but in order for that to not happen again, I created this thread to discuss the new descriptions for their current speed.
Plus I want to make sure no one has any issues with the current calc. If there are problems then we'll resolve them and if it comes to them needing to be downgraded for a legitimate reason then so be it. Below will go over the feats that are used for the scaling and at the end of the thread I have 3 suggestions which will depend on what we decide to accept. So please read the thread in it's entirety and if you see any issues with anything please comment, I'm made this so we could find the best scaling that works for everyone.
Option 1 (FTL)
Danny travels to Pariah's Keep
This feat was calced at FTL (3 times) and was the reason they got upgraded in the first place. The original thread discussing it is right here, however I'll go over it again and give a more short and simple version.
Feat & Timeframe:
Season 1, Episode 13 "Fright Knight"
(6:00 to 10:20)
Danny decides to check and see what Dash's haunted room looks like and during Mr Lancer and Dash's conversation, Lancer askes what else does he have to show him and Dash replies that he has a 20 minute presentation. Lancer replies by saying to hurry and the ride starts.
Danny then decides to go into the Ghost Zone to get the Fright Knight's sword, which is located in Pariah's Keep. After Danny travels there, gets the sword and escapes the Fright Knight, he returns to his haunted house room, actives the sword and then we see Lancer leaving Dash's room.
Considering Danny did all that including going into the keep, talking to the Fright Knight an a few extra things before Lancer left Dash's room. It was agreed that 20 minutes was a fair timeframe to use.
Distance:
(28:20 to 30:48)
As shown in the video, Jazz throws the Booo-merang into the Ghost Zone from the Fenton Portal, it travels and passes by planets in the background and after a 10 year time-skip, it's still floating through the Ghost Zone and you see planets in it's area.
The Booo-merang then locks on to Danny's energy signature and when it cuts to Danny, he's being beat up by several ghosts and you can still see planets in the background. The Booo-merang then hits Danny and he heads to Vlad's ghost portal from his location and reaches it. This means Danny knew his current location already and that Vlad's portal was near to some degree, otherwise you'd be saying Danny traveled all the way back to his area of the Ghost Zone (passing by all those planets the Booo-merang did in the process).
Season 3, episode 7 "Livin' Large"
Danny uses Vlad's portal to enter the Ghost Zone and he looks around to see Pariah's Keep not to far which proves they are close to each other. This proves what I said above that since the distance between Danny's portal and Vlad's portal have interplanetary distances at least, Pariah's Keep would be just as far from Danny's portal.
Danny also comments that that he's now halfway cross the Zone. Obviously this statement is simply stressing that he's very far from his portal since the Ghost Zone has repeated statements of being infinite so it's clear this just means a great distance which supports Pariah's Keep being far from Danny's portal. Not to mention Danny is on a timer in this episode and every second counts. So while he himself can cross the distance in minutes, any second, the Guys in White could destroy the Ghost Zone.
Because the exact number of planets between Danny's portal and Pariah's Keep is unknown we decided to low ball it to 10 planet due to the Booo-merang traveling for 10 years. Despite the fact we see much more than 10 planets shown in the episode. Other ghosts are capable of performing the feat themselves and have so it's not an outlier but the there always could be some other issue so if you have one, bring it up in the comments below.
Pariah travels across the Ghost Zone
I already brought up this feat before In this thread and it was accepted as a Massively FTL feat.
I'll simply repost the OP below so you can see it here.
Feat & Timeframe:
Season 2, episode 4 - 5 "Reign Storm"
Ember McLain: "He's only been free for a day and he's already destroyed all our homes."
Danny Phantom: "And that's without the ring."
Ember states that in only a day, Pariah destroy all the ghosts homes.
Distance:
There is no way to know the exact distance Pariah Dark traveled, however we can get somewhat of an idea.
Season 2, episode 8-9 "The Ultimate Enemy"
If you read the thread linked above or Danny's FTL feat you'll remember their are many planets within the Ghost Zone and ghosts are around them and are spread far across the Ghost Zone. Pariah Dark not only would have had to cross planets due to ghosts living outside of the realms within the Ghost Zone like Skulker's Island or other areas around those planets. He'd also have had to visit countless realms since ghosts also make their homes inside these realms as well.
Season 1, episode 5 "Splitting Images"
We see the realm Poindexter lives in has multiple stars.
Before anyone tries to argue these aren't stars, I've explained multiple times that they are stars because they are drawn like this throughout the series.
Season 2, episode 14 "Beauty Marked"
We see Dorathea's realm is big enough to have a sun.
Season 2, episode 15 "King Tuck"
We see King Duulaman's dimension is big enough to have a moon.
So yeah, Pariah would have traveled the distance of many planets, and realms, some of which size can reach stellar to Interstellar. I'm not saying all realms are this big, we've seen some ghosts realms home are the size of a room. I'm simply just showing there are some that are large.
At the end of the day, it is completely unknown how far he traveled. Ghosts are spread across the Ghost Zone and since it's infinite, and ghosts have existed for a long time, they could be Interstellar distances away or even further.
Season 1, episode 11 "Fanning the Flames"
In this episode, Danny traps Klemper in a snow realm with ghost penguins. It is later revealed at the end of the episode that Danny also trapped Ember in the same realm and it is shown that within that realm are even more doors which lead to more realms. This means there are ghosts in realms within other realms... if that makes any sense.
Again, this feat is incalculable. We don't know how far Pariah Dark traveled, just that he traveled many interplanetary to potentially Interstellar distances within a single day.
Option 2 (Sub-Relativistic+)
Sub-Relativistic+ Specter Speeder
Here is the accepted calc which puts the Specter Speeder at Sub-Relativistic+. This scales to pretty much everyone which I'll prove below
(28:42 to 29:06)
In the very episode this feat took place, we see Skulker and a bunch of no name ghosts could keep up with the Specter Speeder while Danny was trying to escape. It makes no sense for Danny not to be flying the Specter Speeder at it's fastest when he's trying to get away from them.
Season 1, Episode 8 "Prisoners of Love"
Dragon Dorathea (who Danny is comparable to), could keep up with the Specter Speeder. While Sam and Tucker are being chased in the Ghost Zone the have a quick exchange.
Sam: "Can't this tube go any faster?"
Tucker: "I'm trying, we're still looking for Danny you know."
So they're looking for Danny but Tucker is making the Specter Speeder go as fast as it can, which proves even season 1 ghosts could move at Sub-Relativistic+ speeds.
Sub-Relativistic Technus
Here is the calc for the eye beams from Satallite Technus which were calced at Sub-Relativistic. The math was correct but there were a few problems mentioned in the comments of the calc which I'll address here.
Issues: "36000 km is the highest orbit for satellize, already a high-ball (for practice, you would need to find a satellize similar to the one that appears in the show and see at what height it orbit); although, since the ghost is sending communication signal I would argue than that is SoL. However, I never see Danny outrunning it, not after the time that you gave us."
True, 36000 km is the highest satellite orbit but in this case it is in no way a high-ball for the calc. In the episode, it is explicitly stated multiple times that the satellite is in space.
Tucker: "And this is part of the cybertron main computer it's the hub that links to the actual possessing unit which flots in space."
Sam: "Why would they put it in space?"
Tucker: "For safety, Sam, a computer that powerful could be used to control every other computer in the world. You can't just let anybody get to it."
Later in the episode, Technus also states this.
Technus: "Goodbye computer in Amity Park, hello fancy satellite in space!
It's stated by Tucker that it was put in space because of how dangerous it is and we even see it's in space and that you need as space ship to reach it.
I'm not going to argue whether or not Technus is shooting communication waves since they look like energy beams, I think it's safer just to assume they aren't. Also, yes, Danny didn't dodge Technus' eye beams, he dodge Valerie's beams and Valerie new suit and weapons were upgraded by the same Technus who merged with the satellite.
Regardless of whether or not her beams are as fast as his, it's still a Sub-Relativistic feat and consistent with the Specter Speeder Sub-Relativistic+ feat.
Supportering Feat
Another feat that would support thier energy attacks being fast is the reality gauntlets waves which traveled around the world in about 20 to 30 seconds at most.
While this isn't Sub-Relativistic, it's in the Massively Hypersonic range and Danny easily reacted to a beam from the gauntlet.
Option 3 (Subsonic/Hypersonic+)
112mph Flight Speed
Season 1, Episode 17 "Maternal Instincts"
In this episode, Danny is doing a little training in the Fenton lab and when they do a check on his speed, Tucker uses a Speedometer to calculate the speed Danny was moving and it came up to 112mph.
While the scene plays, Tucker comments "A hundred twelve miles per, lighten up the speed gun dude."
Because of this scene, many people believe this was and still is his maximum speed in general. However Danny is known to hold back and nothing states it was his maximum speed, Tucker’s statement just meant he didn't need to move that fast but if the first two options are not accepted, this is the best we got.
Hypersonic+ Combat and Reaction Speed
Season 2, Episode 12 "Flirting with Disaster"
In this episode, Tucker explains that the X-23 Booster Rocket could carry someone into orbit in less than 2 minutes.
Here is the episode
(2:45 to 2:53) "Cool. This is the X-23 booster rocket, capable of launching a single person into space in less than 2 minutes"
The speed the rocket would need to be in order to launch a person into space in exactly 2 minutes was calced a long time ago and it was Mach 17 (feat linked below)
web.archive.org
This would make Valerie's upgraded board Hypersonic+ and the blasts she was shooting easily speed past Danny which makes them above her board's speed. Danny also visually dodge one so his reaction speed is comparable as well.
Results
Since we accept the 100 times multiplier for the Ecto-Skeleton, the Top Tiers like Pariah Dark will all scale 100 times above Danny's base ratings. The Ratings below will be using Danny's keys as examples.
Option 1 (FTL)
Speed: FTL (Comparable to other ghosts who can keep up with the Specter Speeder which traveled from Saturn to Earth in a short time, traveled to Pariah's Keep and back at this speed) | FTL (At least as fast as before) | FTL (At least as fast as before) | Massively FTL (Exactly 100 times faster than base speed in season 2 and could keep up with Pariah Dark)
Key: Season 1 | Season 2 | Season 3 | Ecto-Skeleton
Option 2 (Sub-Relativistic+)
Speed: Sub-Relativistic+ (Comparable to other ghosts who can keep up with the Specter Speeder which traveled from Saturn to Earth in a short time) | Sub-Relativistic+ (At least as fast as before and should be comparable to other ghosts who's energy attacks can move at these speeds) | Sub-Relativistic+ (At least as fast as before) | FTL (Exactly 100 times faster than base speed in season 2)
Key: Season 1| Season 2 | Season 3 | Ecto-Skeleton
Option 3 (Subsonic/Hypersonic)
Speed: Subsonic flight speed with Hypersonic+ combat and reaction speed (Flew at 112mph and could keep up with people like the Fright Knight and Dorathea) | Subsonic flight speed with Hypersonic+ combat and reaction speed (At least as fast as before, dodge a beam from Valerie which moved faster than the X-23 booster rocket) | Subsonic flight speed with Hypersonic+ combat and reaction speed (At least as fast as before) | Hypersonic+ flight speed with Massively Hypersonic combat and reaction speed (Exactly 100 times faster than his base speed in season 2)
Key: Season 1 | Season 2 | Season 3 | Ecto-Skeleton
Plus I want to make sure no one has any issues with the current calc. If there are problems then we'll resolve them and if it comes to them needing to be downgraded for a legitimate reason then so be it. Below will go over the feats that are used for the scaling and at the end of the thread I have 3 suggestions which will depend on what we decide to accept. So please read the thread in it's entirety and if you see any issues with anything please comment, I'm made this so we could find the best scaling that works for everyone.
Option 1 (FTL)
Danny travels to Pariah's Keep
This feat was calced at FTL (3 times) and was the reason they got upgraded in the first place. The original thread discussing it is right here, however I'll go over it again and give a more short and simple version.
Feat & Timeframe:
Season 1, Episode 13 "Fright Knight"
(6:00 to 10:20)
Danny decides to check and see what Dash's haunted room looks like and during Mr Lancer and Dash's conversation, Lancer askes what else does he have to show him and Dash replies that he has a 20 minute presentation. Lancer replies by saying to hurry and the ride starts.
Danny then decides to go into the Ghost Zone to get the Fright Knight's sword, which is located in Pariah's Keep. After Danny travels there, gets the sword and escapes the Fright Knight, he returns to his haunted house room, actives the sword and then we see Lancer leaving Dash's room.
Considering Danny did all that including going into the keep, talking to the Fright Knight an a few extra things before Lancer left Dash's room. It was agreed that 20 minutes was a fair timeframe to use.
Distance:
(28:20 to 30:48)
As shown in the video, Jazz throws the Booo-merang into the Ghost Zone from the Fenton Portal, it travels and passes by planets in the background and after a 10 year time-skip, it's still floating through the Ghost Zone and you see planets in it's area.
The Booo-merang then locks on to Danny's energy signature and when it cuts to Danny, he's being beat up by several ghosts and you can still see planets in the background. The Booo-merang then hits Danny and he heads to Vlad's ghost portal from his location and reaches it. This means Danny knew his current location already and that Vlad's portal was near to some degree, otherwise you'd be saying Danny traveled all the way back to his area of the Ghost Zone (passing by all those planets the Booo-merang did in the process).
Season 3, episode 7 "Livin' Large"
Danny uses Vlad's portal to enter the Ghost Zone and he looks around to see Pariah's Keep not to far which proves they are close to each other. This proves what I said above that since the distance between Danny's portal and Vlad's portal have interplanetary distances at least, Pariah's Keep would be just as far from Danny's portal.
Danny also comments that that he's now halfway cross the Zone. Obviously this statement is simply stressing that he's very far from his portal since the Ghost Zone has repeated statements of being infinite so it's clear this just means a great distance which supports Pariah's Keep being far from Danny's portal. Not to mention Danny is on a timer in this episode and every second counts. So while he himself can cross the distance in minutes, any second, the Guys in White could destroy the Ghost Zone.
Because the exact number of planets between Danny's portal and Pariah's Keep is unknown we decided to low ball it to 10 planet due to the Booo-merang traveling for 10 years. Despite the fact we see much more than 10 planets shown in the episode. Other ghosts are capable of performing the feat themselves and have so it's not an outlier but the there always could be some other issue so if you have one, bring it up in the comments below.
Pariah travels across the Ghost Zone
I already brought up this feat before In this thread and it was accepted as a Massively FTL feat.
I'll simply repost the OP below so you can see it here.
Feat & Timeframe:
Season 2, episode 4 - 5 "Reign Storm"
Ember McLain: "He's only been free for a day and he's already destroyed all our homes."
Danny Phantom: "And that's without the ring."
Ember states that in only a day, Pariah destroy all the ghosts homes.
Distance:
There is no way to know the exact distance Pariah Dark traveled, however we can get somewhat of an idea.
Season 2, episode 8-9 "The Ultimate Enemy"
If you read the thread linked above or Danny's FTL feat you'll remember their are many planets within the Ghost Zone and ghosts are around them and are spread far across the Ghost Zone. Pariah Dark not only would have had to cross planets due to ghosts living outside of the realms within the Ghost Zone like Skulker's Island or other areas around those planets. He'd also have had to visit countless realms since ghosts also make their homes inside these realms as well.
Season 1, episode 5 "Splitting Images"
We see the realm Poindexter lives in has multiple stars.
Before anyone tries to argue these aren't stars, I've explained multiple times that they are stars because they are drawn like this throughout the series.
Season 2, episode 14 "Beauty Marked"
We see Dorathea's realm is big enough to have a sun.
Season 2, episode 15 "King Tuck"
We see King Duulaman's dimension is big enough to have a moon.
So yeah, Pariah would have traveled the distance of many planets, and realms, some of which size can reach stellar to Interstellar. I'm not saying all realms are this big, we've seen some ghosts realms home are the size of a room. I'm simply just showing there are some that are large.
At the end of the day, it is completely unknown how far he traveled. Ghosts are spread across the Ghost Zone and since it's infinite, and ghosts have existed for a long time, they could be Interstellar distances away or even further.
Season 1, episode 11 "Fanning the Flames"
In this episode, Danny traps Klemper in a snow realm with ghost penguins. It is later revealed at the end of the episode that Danny also trapped Ember in the same realm and it is shown that within that realm are even more doors which lead to more realms. This means there are ghosts in realms within other realms... if that makes any sense.
Again, this feat is incalculable. We don't know how far Pariah Dark traveled, just that he traveled many interplanetary to potentially Interstellar distances within a single day.
Option 2 (Sub-Relativistic+)
Sub-Relativistic+ Specter Speeder
Here is the accepted calc which puts the Specter Speeder at Sub-Relativistic+. This scales to pretty much everyone which I'll prove below
(28:42 to 29:06)
In the very episode this feat took place, we see Skulker and a bunch of no name ghosts could keep up with the Specter Speeder while Danny was trying to escape. It makes no sense for Danny not to be flying the Specter Speeder at it's fastest when he's trying to get away from them.
Season 1, Episode 8 "Prisoners of Love"
Dragon Dorathea (who Danny is comparable to), could keep up with the Specter Speeder. While Sam and Tucker are being chased in the Ghost Zone the have a quick exchange.
Sam: "Can't this tube go any faster?"
Tucker: "I'm trying, we're still looking for Danny you know."
So they're looking for Danny but Tucker is making the Specter Speeder go as fast as it can, which proves even season 1 ghosts could move at Sub-Relativistic+ speeds.
Sub-Relativistic Technus
Here is the calc for the eye beams from Satallite Technus which were calced at Sub-Relativistic. The math was correct but there were a few problems mentioned in the comments of the calc which I'll address here.
Issues: "36000 km is the highest orbit for satellize, already a high-ball (for practice, you would need to find a satellize similar to the one that appears in the show and see at what height it orbit); although, since the ghost is sending communication signal I would argue than that is SoL. However, I never see Danny outrunning it, not after the time that you gave us."
True, 36000 km is the highest satellite orbit but in this case it is in no way a high-ball for the calc. In the episode, it is explicitly stated multiple times that the satellite is in space.
Tucker: "And this is part of the cybertron main computer it's the hub that links to the actual possessing unit which flots in space."
Sam: "Why would they put it in space?"
Tucker: "For safety, Sam, a computer that powerful could be used to control every other computer in the world. You can't just let anybody get to it."
Later in the episode, Technus also states this.
Technus: "Goodbye computer in Amity Park, hello fancy satellite in space!
It's stated by Tucker that it was put in space because of how dangerous it is and we even see it's in space and that you need as space ship to reach it.
I'm not going to argue whether or not Technus is shooting communication waves since they look like energy beams, I think it's safer just to assume they aren't. Also, yes, Danny didn't dodge Technus' eye beams, he dodge Valerie's beams and Valerie new suit and weapons were upgraded by the same Technus who merged with the satellite.
Regardless of whether or not her beams are as fast as his, it's still a Sub-Relativistic feat and consistent with the Specter Speeder Sub-Relativistic+ feat.
Supportering Feat
Another feat that would support thier energy attacks being fast is the reality gauntlets waves which traveled around the world in about 20 to 30 seconds at most.
While this isn't Sub-Relativistic, it's in the Massively Hypersonic range and Danny easily reacted to a beam from the gauntlet.
Option 3 (Subsonic/Hypersonic+)
112mph Flight Speed
Season 1, Episode 17 "Maternal Instincts"
In this episode, Danny is doing a little training in the Fenton lab and when they do a check on his speed, Tucker uses a Speedometer to calculate the speed Danny was moving and it came up to 112mph.
While the scene plays, Tucker comments "A hundred twelve miles per, lighten up the speed gun dude."
Because of this scene, many people believe this was and still is his maximum speed in general. However Danny is known to hold back and nothing states it was his maximum speed, Tucker’s statement just meant he didn't need to move that fast but if the first two options are not accepted, this is the best we got.
Hypersonic+ Combat and Reaction Speed
Season 2, Episode 12 "Flirting with Disaster"
In this episode, Tucker explains that the X-23 Booster Rocket could carry someone into orbit in less than 2 minutes.
Here is the episode
(2:45 to 2:53) "Cool. This is the X-23 booster rocket, capable of launching a single person into space in less than 2 minutes"
The speed the rocket would need to be in order to launch a person into space in exactly 2 minutes was calced a long time ago and it was Mach 17 (feat linked below)
The speed of Danny Phantom's Rocket (Danny Phantom) | Naruto Forums
Published by Alita54 in the blog Sasori's Iron Sand Destruction (Naruto). Views: 5
web.archive.org
This would make Valerie's upgraded board Hypersonic+ and the blasts she was shooting easily speed past Danny which makes them above her board's speed. Danny also visually dodge one so his reaction speed is comparable as well.
Results
Since we accept the 100 times multiplier for the Ecto-Skeleton, the Top Tiers like Pariah Dark will all scale 100 times above Danny's base ratings. The Ratings below will be using Danny's keys as examples.
Option 1 (FTL)
Speed: FTL (Comparable to other ghosts who can keep up with the Specter Speeder which traveled from Saturn to Earth in a short time, traveled to Pariah's Keep and back at this speed) | FTL (At least as fast as before) | FTL (At least as fast as before) | Massively FTL (Exactly 100 times faster than base speed in season 2 and could keep up with Pariah Dark)
Key: Season 1 | Season 2 | Season 3 | Ecto-Skeleton
Option 2 (Sub-Relativistic+)
Speed: Sub-Relativistic+ (Comparable to other ghosts who can keep up with the Specter Speeder which traveled from Saturn to Earth in a short time) | Sub-Relativistic+ (At least as fast as before and should be comparable to other ghosts who's energy attacks can move at these speeds) | Sub-Relativistic+ (At least as fast as before) | FTL (Exactly 100 times faster than base speed in season 2)
Key: Season 1| Season 2 | Season 3 | Ecto-Skeleton
Option 3 (Subsonic/Hypersonic)
Speed: Subsonic flight speed with Hypersonic+ combat and reaction speed (Flew at 112mph and could keep up with people like the Fright Knight and Dorathea) | Subsonic flight speed with Hypersonic+ combat and reaction speed (At least as fast as before, dodge a beam from Valerie which moved faster than the X-23 booster rocket) | Subsonic flight speed with Hypersonic+ combat and reaction speed (At least as fast as before) | Hypersonic+ flight speed with Massively Hypersonic combat and reaction speed (Exactly 100 times faster than his base speed in season 2)
Key: Season 1 | Season 2 | Season 3 | Ecto-Skeleton
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