Damnit I Forgot Thing (Smol SCP Revision)

[Hl3_or_bust]

So turns out I forgot about some shit regard The Spear of the Non-Believer.

• SCP-4840: Adam uses the spear as his personal weapon, with which he strong-armed the support and generally dissuaded conflict with many gods, such as the Scarlet King and SCP-3125, and goes to war against the Fae and likely their God with it.
  • SCP-5935: Specifically 5935.8, says that the gods of the Fae predate the universe and the gods who represent the aspects of the universe. 5935.10 is also one of these gods speaking through Jacob, the son of an O5 Councilmember who contacted said god to resurrect his son, to describe what it is. To summarize, it describes itself, God, as the "first word and name" and the first point in existence from which everything else spread out and acquired its own name

Additionally, the spear is described as always being with its wielder and Calvin specifically retroactively got the spear from O5-2 in a flashback. Moreover, when one lets go of the spear, they never had it to begin with.

What does it all mean

Well, the spear is upgraded to At least Low 1-C scaling to 3125 and gains resistance to type 2 Conceptual Manipulation, as the Fae's naming powers couldn't destroy or affect it. To further back up the resistance, the spear was most likely made to directly oppose the God mentioned above. The spear also gains type 4 acausality and minor causality manipulation.

This affects Calvin Lucien, as he directly wields the spear, Aaron Siegal, who has a weapon that can repeatedly clash with the spear, and The Administrator (Seed), as he exists as the concept of every anomaly, which includes the spear as The Foundation knew about and owned it for a long time.

 

[Agnaa]

and gains resistance to type 2 Conceptual Manipulation, as the Fae's naming powers couldn't destroy or affect it.

We literally just had a thread on giving resistances for bunk reasons like this.

You need actual explicit statements that their naming powers didn't work, or else they don't get resistance.

 

[Hl3_or_bust]

I find it hard to believe that the Fae didn't use their primary, or potentially only, natural power in a war.

 

[Agnaa]

Don't care what you find hard to believe, them's the rules.

 

[Hl3_or_bust]

The rules are going against common sense and logic. This is like saying that two normal humans fighting off screen can't scale to each other because you can't say for certain they threw a punch or kick.

 

[Hl3_or_bust]

Also, that hasn't even been implemented yet.

 

[Agnaa]

Instances where Character A defeats Character B, Character B fails to defeat a Character A, or the like, aren't enough for Character A to have resistances to all the powers Character B has. Multiple factors such as CIS, Plot-Induced Stupidity and/or a Speed Blitz can be at play if no further details are given. Cases like this may include complicated, long fights Character B may want to win due to significant reasons, even if the details of the battle weren't clearly detailed. Exceptions include instances where it's explicitly indicated that "all of Character B's powers won't work on Character A", or equivalents.

And are you seriously planning to implement a revision based on a rule that's going to be changed almost immediately? Come the **** on dude.

 

[Hl3_or_bust]

The **** do you mean

1: I didn't know about that thread

2: I'm not ******* clairvoyant, so I didn't know about the thread

3: that rule is not even implemented in any form yet

so i don't know what you're on about

 

[Agnaa]

1/2/3: I'd already linked the thread by the time you made your post saying "Also, that hasn't even been implemented yet." As if it not being implemented means this thread can go through.

 

[Hl3_or_bust]

I seriously don't know what you think I'm saying

For one, yes that is entirely within my power and not what I am doing, because it's not a rule yet. You can't enforce a rule that isn't a rule, but I digress since again that's not what is even happening.

Your logic is that, if two humans walk into an alleyway with a clear intention to fight each other, and one is 10-A or some shit, you can't scale them regardless of the outcome or what they leave looking like because you can't know for certain that they actually fought. This is just objectively ******** and makes no sense, rule or not.

 

[InfiniteDay]

I agree with @Agnaa, you need direct statements of it not working or it doesn't exist.

 

[Hl3_or_bust]

Because apparently implications that are literally half a step below a direct statement don't exist

 

[Iapitus_The_Impaler]

The Spear of the Non-believer was literally meant to contest the God who gave everything names. Like, even Fae aside, what the hell is the point of a spear meant to refute a God of names and is the antithesis to the whole idea that can't even deal with possibly its main gimmick?

Anyway, I agree with the OP.

 

[Agnaa]

There's no implication that the Fae used their ability.

Two 10-As fighting off-screen with one of them getting damaged requires one to damage the other.

 

[Hl3_or_bust]

The Fae were at war with Pre-Flood Humanity

Pre-Flood Humanity was only wiped out by the Flood

Meaning they defeated the Fae without being permanently damaged by the name fuckery

The Fae have no reason at all, none whatsoever, to not use their name fuckery because that is their only natural power and they are more than willing to use it at every opportunity, as seen in literally everything that happens in Taboo when someone breaks the rules.

If this isn't enough, then a direct statement shouldn't be enough either.

 

[Agnaa]

Those are exactly the sorts of arguments that the rules were written do dismiss.

A direct statement is far better.

 

[Hl3_or_bust]

What exactly is the problem with that logic beyond "hur dur rules say no"?

Seriously, what is wrong with that? I've seen entire CRTs and cosmology changes made with less clear implications and evidence than that.

 

[Agnaa]

"They have no reason not to" isn't a reason to assume that someone did something which there is no stated implication of them doing, imo.

 

[Hl3_or_bust]

Well, I can't really do anything about that, but there is the sheer fact that breaking the rules given in Taboo has such an immediate result should show that the Fae are extremely liberal with their powers when given the chance to use them. I find it absurdly unlikely that they were not only never given a chance during that war, but also never took any of those chances for some reason.

 

[InfiniteDay]

Again, unless there is a direct, linked statement of them using it, this is worse than the 1-A scp argument.

 

[Hl3_or_bust]

And again, implications exist, y'know. Not absolutely everything needs to be specifically stated or even should in many cases.

 

[Agnaa]

Implications can come from the text itself and be usable.

If it is pulled out of your arse it is not an implication, it is headcanon.

 

[Hl3_or_bust]

I do love how you indirectly say the resistance is pulled out of my ass despite giving a legitimate argument for it that you expertly countered with "rules say no lol" as though that somehow negates the argument being logically sound and less sound arguments getting onto pages before.

 

[Agnaa]

The reasoning isn't logically sound, as the rule explains.

If I knew about those less sound arguments I'd nuke them. The reason I have so many CRTs planned is because I found so many pages with terrible justifications for their feats.

 

[Hl3_or_bust]

Wasn't that rule rewritten somewhat to account for context? Because completely ignoring context is ******* stupid, honestly.

 

[Agnaa]

Not if the context is just "They only have 1 ability so everyone they fight resists it".

 

[Hl3_or_bust]

Good thing that isn't the context here, because here it's closer to "a race with one power that they are repeatedly shown to use at every available opportunity goes to war with another race so the other race resists it."

 

[Agnaa]

It's not even that, you were arguing that a weapon that other race used must resist it, your revision was phrased as being about the spear.

Also I'm pretty sure scaling the spear to the Administrator is bunk. In SCP we only give "all anomaly" characters things from anomalies that are explicitly named in reference to them.

 

[Iapitus_The_Impaler]

The God thing is more important than the Fae thing honestly.

The spear was literally in the room with Calvin when the statement was made.

 

[Agnaa]

Well, that's a better reason for scaling than the OP gave, at least. Although I am incapable of evaluating how legit that is due to unfamiliarity.

 

[Hl3_or_bust]

I actually added that a few minutes after the argument started, because Iap pointed it out to me. I meant to give attention to it but forgot.

 

[Overlord775]

the additions sound good

 

[Sir_Ovens]

Guess I'm adding type 2 concept manip for gods on my part 2 CRT.

 

[Hl3_or_bust]

bump ig?

 

[Sir_Ovens]

I believe you would have to post context of the Fae god predating creation and creating all the concepts and help Agnaa understand why the spear would be detrimental to it. This context should preferably be done with scans and a written explanation.

Sorry if I sound snarky, I just had a debate and needed to be very precise with my words.

 

[Overlord775]

It's from SCP-5945

for first thing, without a name something doesn't exist:

"But what is there to reveal? You can't name something that doesn't exist."

"In that tomb is a creature, something that was perhaps once beautiful and regal but is reduced to little more than the space in which it exists"

"He thought he was making a deal with a dead fae god in exchange for a soul. Poor idiot. You can't trade for something that no longer exists."

Now for the proof of them being concepts:

"O5-█: The entity is a true doppelganger. We do not know the extent of its capabilities, but affected personnel are unable to differentiate between the entity and those it is impersonating, even if they see the transformation happening in real time.


O5-█: The strain this puts on the psyche of affected persons, if they see both the doppelganger and the original in the same place, has already led to the deaths of four medical personnel. The entity is an aberration.


O5-█: It is dangerous. We do not know its intentions. If it was able to impersonate a staff member? Or even a member of this council? We don't even know if it can be damaged - the late Dr. Wallace attempted to push a blade through its heart and it emerged from his own."

"IN THE BEGINNING WAS THE WORD


[JACOB] AND THE WORD WAS WITH GOD


[JACOB] AND THE WORD WAS GOD


[JACOB] ALL THINGS WERE MADE BY HIM


[JACOB] AND WITHOUT HIM NOT ANY THING MADE THAT WAS MADE


[JACOB] THE WORD WAS GOD


[JACOB] AND ALL WAS WITHIN GOD


[JACOB] A SINGULAR POINT


[JACOB] ONE NAME


[JACOB] GOD


[JACOB] BUT AS MANY AS RECEIVED HIM, TO THEM GAVE HE POWER TO BECOME THE SONS OF GOD EVEN TO THEM THAT BELIEVE ON HIS NAME


[JACOB] HIS NAME


[JACOB] AND AS SPREAD THEY INTO THE NEW WORLD


[JACOB] THE WORLD MADE BY HIM


[JACOB] THEY GAVE UPON EACH OTHER NAMES


[JACOB] AND GAVE NAMES TO THE WORLD MADE BY HIM


[JACOB] AND THE ANIMALS


[JACOB] WHICH WERE BORN, NOT OF BLOOD, NOR OF THE WILL OF THE FLESH, NOR OF THE WILL OF MAN, BUT OF GOD


[JACOB] THE NAME OF GOD


[JACOB] AND THE WORD WAS MADE FLESH


[JACOB] AND THE NAME OF GOD


[JACOB] ONE GOD


[JACOB] BECAME THE NAMES OF MANY


[JACOB] ALL CREATURES THAT WALKED


[JACOB] ALL THOSE THAT STIRRED YET


[JACOB] AND THE FAR OFF THINGS THAT HAD NOT YET BEEN GIVEN NAME, THEY TOO HAD NAMES UPON THEM


[JACOB] AND THE WORD WAS GOD


[JACOB] BUT THE WORD DIMINISHED


[JACOB] AND THE NAME DIMINISHED


[JACOB] FOR WHAT WAS ONE NAME AND ONE GOD


[JACOB] WAS NOW MANY NAMES


[JACOB] AND MANY GODS


[JACOB] WHEN ALL THINGS IN THEIR TIME WERE GIVEN NAME


[JACOB] A NEW GOD FORMED


[JACOB] A GOD OF MANY NAMES


[JACOB] AND THE LIGHT OF THIS NEW GOD SHINETH IN DARKNESS


[JACOB] AND ALL WERE GIVEN NAME


[JACOB] BUT THERE EXISTS YET THAT OLD WORD


[JACOB] THAT PLACE FROM WHICH ALL NAMES WERE GIVEN


[JACOB] NOW WITHOUT


[JACOB] A FUNCTION WITHOUT PURPOSE


[JACOB] A DARK MIRROR OF EVERY FACE THAT EVER WAS


[JACOB] AND WAS NOT


[JACOB] BUT FACES DO NOT LEAVE THE MIRROR


[JACOB] AND NAMES DO NOT LEAVE THE WORD


[JACOB] IN TIME THEY WILL RETURN TO IT


[JACOB] AND THE WORD WILL BE WITH GOD


[JACOB] AND THE WORD WILL BE GOD


[JACOB] AND THE NAMES WILL BE WITHIN


[JACOB] UNKNOWN ERROR"

 

[Overlord775]

atually, you asked for whe it's said the god predates creation, derp on my part

"When we talk about gods in the Foundation, we talk about the Broken God, or the God of Flesh, or the God of Dreams. Gods of ideas, these aspects of one thing or another. The Broken God is a god of Order, the Flesh God is a god of Fertility, and so on. Then there are creator gods, and gods of death. So on and so forth, an endless parade of divinity.


But there are beings that existed long before the First Man broke bread with the new gods in his golden city. Beings that formed before the universe had shape, beings perhaps even older than that. Calling them "entities" would misrepresent them - they don't exist like you and I do. They're not real. They are the questions whose answers sprung forth into light and life. The formless echo of a voice that never existed."

 

[Hl3_or_bust]

I specifically mentioned the addenda where the important bits for this CRT are talked about in the OP.

 

[Hl3_or_bust]

I added a few further things about the spear that I was just informed of.

 

[Lawiegg]

Hmm how can i use this site?