Chainsaw Man: FTL Spear Issue

[ElJoaki5]

This calculation

Problem

• The calc uses a linear accelerated movement formula for the feat. This means that the resulting speed of 1.25 c is reached only after traveling and accelerating for the entire distance of 376,207 km.
• Denji is currently scaled to the 1.25 c value due to dodging it, with the spear accelerating for just some meters before he dodges.

Therefore, what I wanna point out is that it doesn’t mathematically make sense for Denji to scale to such an speed. He dodged the spear with it only accelerating for some meters while the calculated spear speed value (as it is calculated right now) is only achieved after 376,207 km of travel and acceleration.

Solution
Since I don’t wanna throw this feat fully away, I propose a simple solution. To use linear velocity instead of the acceleration formula and then scale Denji to that linear speed instead, which should be fine.

376,207,000/2 = 188103500 m/s
0.627 c (Relativistic+)

I dont know why we were using the acceleration formula to begin with, I dont find it necessary for this case and it kinda just doubled the results for no good reason. As I explained before, we shouldn’t use it due to scaling reasons too, as the use of this formula makes scaling Denji to it mathematically incorrect.

Kinetic Energy Side Note
Since the spear would go down to the ranges in which kinetic energy is allowed, I will address this. This feat should not be used for kinetic energy in any way, it would yield really high results which the little destruction caused by the spear does not portray.

 

[Breadbear83]

This calculation

Problem

• The calc uses a linear accelerated movement formula for the feat. This means that the resulting speed of 1.25 c is reached only after traveling and accelerating for the entire distance of 376,207 km.
• Denji is currently scaled to the 1.25 c value due to dodging it, with the spear accelerating for just some meters before he dodges.

Therefore, what I wanna point out is that it doesn’t mathematically make sense for Denji to scale to such an speed. He dodged the spear with it only accelerating for some meters while the calculated spear speed value (as it is calculated right now) is only achieved after 376,207 km of travel and acceleration.

Solution
Since I don’t wanna throw this feat fully away, I propose a simple solution. To use linear velocity instead of the acceleration formula and then scale Denji to that linear speed instead, which should be fine.

376,207,000/2 = 188103500 m/s
0.627 c (Relativistic+)

I dont know why we were using the acceleration formula to begin with, I dont find it necessary for this case and it kinda just doubled the results for no good reason. As I explained before, we shouldn’t use it due to scaling reasons too, as the use of this formula makes scaling Denji to it mathematically incorrect.

Kinetic Energy Side Note
Since the spear would go down to the ranges in which kinetic energy is allowed, I will address this. This feat should not be used for kinetic energy in any way, it would yield really high results which the little destruction caused by the spear does not portray.

About the KE, I remember gunshys calc, if the spear moved at 0.85c, with the real life moon flag having a weight of 4.3kg, the KE would be about 86 Megatons (City Levels+) so it's not that high, can be a supporting calc

Edit: oh about it's destruction, Gun Goddess, though it destroyed many buildings in the way, its still nowhere near mountain level in what destruction it showns, it happens with many KE calcs in any feat that they don't make as much destruction as the KE calc says they would had, the Moon Spear I'd the same

 

[Mommyleona]

Hmm yes i agree

 

[GunshyFever]

This calculation

Problem

• The calc uses a linear accelerated movement formula for the feat. This means that the resulting speed of 1.25 c is reached only after traveling and accelerating for the entire distance of 376,207 km.
• Denji is currently scaled to the 1.25 c value due to dodging it, with the spear accelerating for just some meters before he dodges.

Therefore, what I wanna point out is that it doesn’t mathematically make sense for Denji to scale to such an speed. He dodged the spear with it only accelerating for some meters while the calculated spear speed value (as it is calculated right now) is only achieved after 376,207 km of travel and acceleration.

Denji dodged the initial acceleration of the feat, and with new discussions being prompted for dodging feats like these, Denji being able to make a leap that big would without a doubt scale to combat speed.

Solution
Since I don’t wanna throw this feat fully away, I propose a simple solution. To use linear velocity instead of the acceleration formula and then scale Denji to that linear speed instead, which should be fine.

376,207,000/2 = 188103500 m/s
0.627 c (Relativistic+)

I dont know why we were using the acceleration formula to begin with, I dont find it necessary for this case and it kinda just doubled the results for no good reason. As I explained before, we shouldn’t use it due to scaling reasons too, as the use of this formula makes scaling Denji to it mathematically incorrect.

Kinetic Energy Side Note
Since the spear would go down to the ranges in which kinetic energy is allowed, I will address this. This feat should not be used for kinetic energy in any way, it would yield really high results which the little destruction caused by the spear does not portray.

Sure, you can calc that for the speed at which the spear was dodging later on, which would be sufficient enough considering it is not possible for the spear to be traveling at FTL speeds in such a short timeframe, when it took 2 seconds to do so.

All in all, I disagree with the proposal to remove Denji actually scaling to FTL. That should remain, but a separate calc can be added using linear velocity when the spear homes in on Denji within Earth. The acceleration model is acceptable as an approximation for the overall travel, scaling Denji to the final velocity requires demonstrating that the spear had reached that velocity at the point where he dodged it, which is proven. I do not believe KE should be used for this feat either. That would be inflation considering the destruction yielded by the spear is millions of times weaker than its supposed KE, which is not consistent.

 

[Buraqibear]

Following

 

[Harith0cell]

Agree with op

 

[Epiccheev]

Since the spear would go down to the ranges in which kinetic energy is allowed, I will address this. This feat should not be used for kinetic energy in any way, it would yield really high results which the little destruction caused by the spear does not portray.

Iirc the spear is super light ( like 4.3 kg) and someone calced it in another thread to reach at most 7-C range even with relativistic KE.

 

[Arkenis]

Accels fine since thats precisely what it does in the panels. But yeah scaling Denji just isn't right.

 

[GunshyFever]

Snip

I am planning to respond to your prior points, but my hands are kind of tied since I have mock exams next week and important stuff to deal with. So I will respond when I am free.

 

[Arkenis]

I barely said anything gang, what is there to respond to lmao

 

[GunshyFever]

You had some problems in the scaling thread with the feat and I never fully fleshed out my thoughts to you due to studying and procrastination. So I plan to elaborate.

 

[Anonymous_Learner]

Either Denji remains FTL or gets downgraded, I win either way.
Agree

 

[ElJoaki5]

Denji dodged the initial acceleration of the feat, and with new discussions being prompted for dodging feats like these, Denji being able to make a leap that big would without a doubt scale to combat speed.

Yeah he did, however that dodge isnt good enough to directly scale Denji to the attack. He had ample distance to react to it and even then "he almost got speared". Denji's other dodges are the main thing for his scaling as they're tight dodges.

 

[GunshyFever]

Ample distance to dodge a spear that was homing in on him? That does not make any sense. You can claim he had time to prepare to dodge the spear, but you cannot prove he had ample time to dodge, considering that we are shown him literally bursting out of the surrounding dust. That means the spear was only moments away from hitting him, hence the "almost got speared".

His other dodges are included for consistency to show that he can move fast enough to repeatedly dodge the spear. They do not have to be FTL, but they clearly show him moving at relatively fast speeds during short acceleration of the said spear.

 

[Qurbonboev]

You can claim he had time to prepare to dodge the spear, but you cannot prove he had ample time to dodge, considering that we are shown him literally bursting out of the surrounding dust. That means the spear was only moments away from hitting him, hence the "almost got speared".

Yoru literally shouts that:
I'll turn American flag into a spear. And America's claim to the Moon into the homing system".
Denji isn't Einstein by any means. But he def should have clocked that spear is coming after his ass. Assumed timeframe of the feat is 2 second, and within this timeframe peeps with normal human speed can move out by 10-20 meters(And Denjiman should be at least MHS+)

 

[GunshyFever]

That is a blatant misinterpretation of the feat and has nothing to do with the OP or what is currently being discussed. The point that was brought up is that the spear is actively homing in on Denji and constantly locking onto his position. Denji only dodged the spear at extremely close proximity due to leaping out of the dust after the spear's collateral damage.

So we know two things.

1. Denji could not have dodged the spear earlier due to its homing properties and it constantly locking onto him.

2. Denji is shown to leap out of the attack after the collateral and surrounding dust, meaning the attack was relatively close when Denji evaded. Among why he said "almost got speared" because the spear got incredibly close to him.

Please keep up with the discussion.

 

[Buraqibear]

Iirc the spear is super light ( like 4.3 kg) and someone calced it in another thread to reach at most 7-C range even with relativistic KE.

It's around 30 megatons with Joakin's speed value.

 

[Epiccheev]

It's around 30 megatons with Joakin's speed value.

NOice. Too bad piercing damage is omnipotent in CSM and Denjita gets pierced without much diff.

 

[Qurbonboev]

Snip

Well, if spear always constantly homing, my objection is invalid

 

[Sammy818]

Well, if spear always constantly homing, my objection is invalid

“Constantly homing” I really don’t think it’s portrayed that way
As Denji, who was mid air when it locked on, was missed pretty badly by the spear

 

[Sammy818]

“Constantly homing” I really don’t think it’s portrayed that way
As Denji, who was mid air when it locked on, was missed pretty badly by the spear

Denji is quite literally a sitting duck here, if it was constantly homing onto him it quite literally is impossible for it to miss him, he has no recourse or way to actually avoid the spear atm, something something, themes and such(America killing its own civilians in wars)

 

[GunshyFever]

Incredible reach dude. Not only are you denying a common functionality of the spear here which is stated and conceptually (yes conceptually) built into the spear.

The panels you shared clearly prove this. Denji rotates his body slightly to the right to avoid the spear jabbing through his body, which ends up hitting Yoru's comrades that Denji is using as armor. Shifting his body after the spear gets close enough is absolutely a valid way to dodge a homing spear.

This argument sounds like an incredible reach, and I hope your argument is coming from good faith.

 

[Sammy818]

Incredible reach dude. Not only are you denying a common functionality of the spear here which is stated and conceptually (yes conceptually) built into the spear.

The panels you shared clearly prove this. Denji rotates his body slightly to the right to avoid the spear jabbing through his body, which ends up hitting Yoru's comrades that Denji is using as armor. Shifting his body after the spear gets close enough is absolutely a valid way to dodge a homing spear.

This argument sounds like an incredible reach, and I hope your argument is coming from good faith.

The lion was on his thigh, there’s no way he could adjust his body to make it somehow hit the lion, and again, he’s mid air, you can’t just turn your entire body on a whole lotta nothing

 

[GunshyFever]

He is mid air and in motion moving to the right after his prior leap. The spear targets him and he changes his posture, causing the spear to hit the lion on his thigh. That is just physics dude. I genuinely do not know what to tell you if you still do not understand.

Denji is not static in the air and he is clearly faster than the spear's initial acceleration from such a short distance (via his prior leap). Hence the speed disparity. That is just support for the feat itself.

 

[Anonymous_Learner]

bump.
If we gonna do this, might as well finish it

 

[Epiccheev]

If we gonna do this, might as well finish it

 

[AbaddonTheDisappointment]

Okay having read through the thread and the arguments I'm going to have to disagree based on what Gunshy said. Denji scaling to it seems fine to me considering he would've dodged it effectively at the last second given how the panels are lined up with the initial dodge. I also think based on the way the scene is presented, acceleration does make sense for the calc.