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Dale cooper vs Kamijou touma
- Thread starter Lapsad
- Start date
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Is his supernatural luck 1-A
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Idk
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Jamesthetaker
He/Him- 6,754
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Well, since this is in SBA, i doubt Touma can find something to use as a shield to protect himself, like he did in SS1 for example, and his precog can possibly save him one or two times, but Cooper wouldn't waste all his ammo for no reason, yeah, Cooper take this more times than not.
Jamesthetaker
He/Him- 6,754
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Jamesthetaker
He/Him- 6,754
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The original Cooper is more pacifist than now but he know when to take action if required. Though he can't compete Touma in H2H fight and likely won't shoot him even if at disadvantage, truly because from his point of view Touma is just a normal high school boy and Cooper strong moral values will prevent him from doing actual harm against him.
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I couldn't resist posting evidence that simply renders that statement null
“Check.”
Blank.
The calm voice that reached him from the side made Kamijou Touma’s mind go completely blank.
(Wait…there’s someone else here. There’s someone else in this smoke!? And they found me right away! But how!?)
His thoughts were scattered.
He did not even have time for his throat to dry up.
Dry gunshots flew toward him from the side.
- Toaru Majutsu no Index: Biohacker, Chapter 3 Part 2
***
She confirmed the boy’s presence through the smoke.
She dangerously approached him through the obscuring smoke and did not hesitate to speak.
“Check.”
The flow of time reverted to normal for her.
Dry gunshots flew toward him from the side.
After confirming his general distance and direction with Measure Heart, she had fired thrice for good measure toward the figure curled up beyond the smoke. But she still kept her gun at the ready because this was Academy City. She did not know this person’s name, so she did not know what their power was. Just like she had located him by breaking the rules, he might have some kind of barrier that also broke the rules. That might sound ridiculous, but she had to consider the possibility that he could gather up the air or sprinkler water to create a solid wall or that he could use pure telekinesis to repel anything flying his way.
Not knowing what to expect made things difficult.
If she had a special fourth move in this game of rock-paper-scissors, then he might have a special fifth move.
When she circled behind the scrap metal that looked like a sponge after a dog chewed it up, the person she had supposedly shot was nowhere to be seen.
A car door with broken hinges lay there, but its position could not be explained by the gunfire coming from just the one direction. Someone had likely grabbed the broken door and then throw it away later.
The paint was stripped away by cheap bullet holes different from the youngest sister’s Gatling gun rounds.
It had been used as a shield.
The girl in a dress grimaced.
She lightly poked her slender foot at the damage on the metal panel.
“He blocked it and ran away?”
- Toaru Majutsu no Index: Biohacker, Chapter 3 Part 3
and another one
It came from the footsteps of a large group of Anti-Skill. They were fully equipped and even held guns in their hands. Kamijou initially assumed they must have stumbled across some kind of incident, but he was wrong. As soon as his eyes met those of Anti-Skill, the guns all aimed in his direction.
“Shit!!”
He frantically escaped back into the container just as several gun shots exploded through the air. Orange sparks flew from the metal door.
Road to Endymion, Chapter 5, Part 1
“Eeee!? You’ve got it all wrong, Anti-Skill-san! We have nothing to do with that kind of supernatural fighter...Gaaahhhhh!?”
Kamijou’s sentence turned into some sort of yell at the end because he only got a stream of bullets as a response and had to frantically grab Index’s hand and head for cover. They were rubber bullets for suppressing riots, but they would still hurt if they hit you. It was not a good idea to just stand there when a shower of them was headed your way.
Index SP, Chapter 3, Part 1
Just as a chill ran down Kamijou Touma’s back, he heard a scream.
The front door was kicked down and a large man holding a handgun entered and stared
directly at him.
Kamijou jumped to the ground, bringing Kuroyoru’s small form with him. Slower to
react, Hamazura frantically climbed over a thirty-centimeter-thick partition. The very
next instant, repeated high-pitched gunshots rang out.
- New Testament Volume 3 Chapter 2 Part 14
There are more faets if your not convinced
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im sorry but what are u trying to prove with those quote ? that touma stand a chance vs fire arm user ? i mean yes with some prep time or some lucky bulletproof item near him, he has a 3 in 10 chances of beating someone with a gun, but he can't really do much, especially considering if he gets hit even by 1 bullet he is out of the fight as while he does have some good resistance to blunt and superficial (cut or short stab) damage he instantly got knocked out when he got hit by a bullet, and he was not even hit in any vital organ
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You know he has dodged bullets before and he can easily dodge submachine gun fire from the hound dogs. 1 bullet took him out of the fight but that's neglecting the other times he's been shot the bullet most likely took him out because it hit a blood vessel or vital organ. Also, he doesn't need prep or a bulletproof item he moved before someone can pull a trigger can pull the trigger and was only shot that one-time cause he was dealing with BIrdaway.
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He didn't dodge bullet, he got out of the line of fire which is much different, and no he was never shoot other than there, and the medics said specifically he got off easy cause it didn't hit any vital organ, at max he can run but he has to attack at some point, then he just get drilled by the bullets unless he finds any bullet proof mobile surface
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To this day I'm still wondering what Twin Peaks is about and I'm afraid to ask. Will watch it eventually
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That feat is an outlier. Never said he was a bullet timmer just said he can aim dodge. Yeah, he has to attack at some point but a gun needs to be reloaded at some point even if you say one bullet will take him out (it won't) He can still dodge till he runs out of ammo. Touma aim dodges very easily and can easily predict attacks without subconscious precog shown here:
He might have been able to predict where the attack would travel by observing the
movements of Vento’s eyes and the timing of her breathing. It was possible he could
read the direction of the wind attack using the pouring raindrops.
(...and this hatred for science that has trapped Vento.)
But Kamijou abandoned such calculations.
Touma even managed to avoid gunfire from the hound dogs
Kamijou Touma was being chased.
After losing sight of Vento on the bridge, he had focused on returning to the more urban
area to stop the angel. On his way, he had run into a group of those same men in black
who had been pursuing Last Order.
He had immediately run down a narrow back alley their vehicle could not enter in an
attempt to lose them in those complexly intertwining pathways. However, not even a
slight advantage from the terrain was enough to get the better of professionally trained
men. He could hardly believe he had not been shot yet.
Before you go bullshit plot armor it isn't its precognition as it is spoken in the same way as when he places his hand in front of Misaka's lightning.
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dude
1) it's subconscious he can't stop the precog , that line refer of normal predictions, we know he is quite good at them thanks to the fact that he studies in AC as shown in ww3 when he predicted the flight of one of the bomber and used lessar "gauntlet" to grab it and change direction
2) the line literally says he did not get shoot "He could hardly believe he had not been shot yet."
3) here some quote so u are clear on this
"A powerful light washed over them and Kamijou turned in its direction without thinking. Several members of Anti-Skill were running his way. And they had no ability to immediately see through the supernatural aspects of the situation, be they psychic or magical in nature. What it looked like to them was: Person A was holding a dangerous weapon to Person B’s back. “Not good. Move your hand out of—!!” Birdway reacted first. But Anti-Skill took action before she could finish speaking. Several gunshots rang out and Kamijou Touma felt intense pain explosively expand through his body. It felt like a scorching object was ripping through him. All strength left his right hand and the power drill fell to the ground. Even while he still did not understand why he had lost strength in his arm, he could feel that lack of strength spreading throughout his entire body. He could not even work up the strength to look down at his own body. And in the next moment, Kamijou collapsed down to the asphalt. His consciousness lost its continuity and he could only catch intermittent bits of what was going on around him. He heard adult voices yelling in the distance. “You…idiot!! Why did you…have live ammunition loaded!?” “B-but I…!!” Kamijou felt like something important was flowing out of the holes in his body like air leaking from a balloon. An uncomfortable slimy feeling covered his upper body. He heard Birdway speaking. “Shut…up!! …Just call…an ambulance! I…can perform first…aid. Like hell…I can trust…you!” His vision flickered in and out. He began to have difficulty remembering the context of his situation."
"“The bullet struck his right flank, but it came out the other side! There is no sign it injured an artery or any organs!! But some fragments of the bullet might still be inside. Don’t just trust the bullet is out. Make sure to do a proper examination!!”"
"“I suppose you could call it miraculous. Also, Anti-Skill’s training must have stuck with them even in an emergency situation like that,” said a frog-faced doctor to a nurse. He had just finished an emergency late-night surgery. “The bullet missed any vital areas and it came out cleanly. Well, as long as he rests, his condition should stabilize. But if he starts moving around, I can make no promises.”"
nt 5
the other times that he fought opponents using gun was nt 3 which he got bailed out but accelerator and misaka
"Kamijou Touma and Accelerator had jumped into the same area next to the smoking area. Together, they had pushed the hostage children into that area. “What happened to Hamazura!?” asked Kamijou. “He jumped out the other exit. He’s with the parents. More importantly, what the hell was that? What idiot intervened!?” The sound of scraping metal could be heard beyond the black smoke. Kamijou tried to peer out through the smoke, but Accelerator grabbed him by the nape of the neck. Immediately afterwards, gunfire rang out. It was not the sound of a handgun being fired. The explosive noise was deeper and continuous. It was most likely from an assault rifle or something like that. Which meant… “This isn’t the occult…” Accelerator muttered. “Then this is a job for me. You take those kids and get out of here.” “Hey…!” “I have no intention of getting into a firefight with those kids still here. And your power can release them, right?” "
"Kamijou had no power that gave him the ability to deflect or dodge a bullet. That was why he instead swung his right foot up from his position on the ground where he had landed after striking the wall. He kicked up the lever holding one of the cubeshaped containers on the ground, unlocking it. Immediately afterwards, a gunshot rang out. The plane’s acrobatics created a small world that ignored the gravity of the Earth. The container floated up and orange sparks flew as it acted as a shield for Kamijou. However, the abnormal gravity was not constant. For an instant, the container had helped Kamijou, but it then “fell” toward him. Still collapsed on the ground, Kamijou frantically rolled to the side. The mass of metal landed next to him and broke to pieces. The simply constructed joints must have broken. Saronia once more aimed the handgun at him with her right hand. However, Kamijou was not able to use the same method again. There was no lever nearby for him to hit and there was no guarantee that another container would protect him from Saronia’s bullet even if he could release one. However, she did not fire again. A different, more powerful physical phenomenon pierced through the cargo plane. Specifically, it was a current of one billion volts. Hearing the crackling roar, Saronia frantically headed for cover behind a container but quickly realized a metal container was probably not the best shield against electricity. She grimaced. With one leg wrapped around the cylinder, one hand grabbing the president’s arm, and the other hand pointed toward Saronia, Mikoto smiled fearlessly despite the clearly difficult situation she was in."
touma strategy and really only option is getting behind cover and hope someone does the job for him vs guns, unless he has bullet proof material that he can bring with him like in ss 1, and even getting hit once in either legs , torso or head and he is KO as any hit on those would lead him to be immobile and easy target
btw im not counting ot17 cause the terrorist gun was not working, still the strategy was the same, use the environment and nearby items as a way to block the line of fire and remove the gun from the fight
4) u are right that guns need to reload but 1) just don't waste shoot if u can't hit the target as he is far away (the basics) 2) reloading a gun takes a few seconds touma closing the distance would take longer depending on the cover near him
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God you wrote a lot but let's do this anyway
1 your right I was reaching there
2 My point still stands. Also Touma's precognition is meant to work on all things except saints cause they are protected by the plot not to lose to Touma
3 yeah he was shot once and was taken down ignoring all the other times he has been stabbed and pierce by things that are worse than that wound
Yeah, Accelerator bailed him out but that's not an anti feat for Touma plus we're talking about him handling a handgun not an assault rifle.
Kamijou had no power that gave him the ability to deflect or dodge a bullet And Touma is a regular high school boy and saints only move at the speed of sound and Accelerator is weaker than your average high schooler the narration straight-up lies to you most of the time when it comes to characters abilities its widely inconsistent best example of the top of my head is this
Accelerator fired a second and third steel rail at Kamijou who was rolling on the ground.
Those masses of steel flying through the air were as unavoidable for a human as
handgun bullets.
A direct hit from one would be certain death and even barely avoiding one would lead to
damage from the gravel scattered by the hit, which would slowly but surely add up and
lead to death.
All Kamijou could do was continue to roll along the ground. Beyond that, all he could do
was try to read the direction the gravel would be sent and jump in the same direction to
reduce the damage as much as possible.
He could not approach.
He avoided 10 or 20 of those steel bullets and was struck by the scattered gravel each
time, but he was gradually heading away from the center of the switchyard and to the
outer part.
Ah yes unavoidable as handgun bullets proceeds to dodge 20 of them
touma strategy and really only option is getting behind cover and hope someone does the job for him vs guns, unless he has bullet proof material that he can bring with him like in ss 1, and even getting hit once in either legs , torso or head and he is KO as any hit on those would lead him to be immobile and easy target
btw im not counting ot17 cause the terrorist gun was not working, still the strategy was the same, use the environment and nearby items as a way to block the line of fire and remove the gun from the fight
so we ignoring this then
It came from the footsteps of a large group of Anti-Skill. They were fully equipped and even held guns in their hands. Kamijou initially assumed they must have stumbled across some kind of incident, but he was wrong. As soon as his eyes met those of Anti-Skill, the guns all aimed in his direction.
“Shit!!”
He frantically escaped back into the container just as several gun shots exploded through the air. Orange sparks flew from the metal door.
Road to Endymion, Chapter 5, Part 1
Aim dodges bullets
Just as a chill ran down Kamijou Touma’s back, he heard a scream.
The front door was kicked down and a large man holding a handgun entered and stared
directly at him.
Kamijou jumped to the ground, bringing Kuroyoru’s small form with him. Slower to
react, Hamazura frantically climbed over a thirty-centimeter-thick partition. The very
next instant, repeated high-pitched gunshots rang out.
- New Testament Volume 3 Chapter 2 Part 14
does it again
And that was why he had the “confidence” to immediately dive behind a rectangular concrete pillar as soon as the bundle of barrels began to rotate.
A moment later, the pillar was blown to smithereens.
He was about to aim dodge Izzards bullets but chose to stay put to protect Styil and Himegami
Touma aim dodges for a living and you want to say he can't dodge a bullet from a handgun despite dodging bullets before. he has the agility to dodge them to as seen here
Also, he isn't incapable of dodging natural things either
A point in the night sky flashed.
“Get down, human!!” shouted Othinus.
The explosive roar arrived after a short delay. It was preceded by something flying inside
the station entrance and tearing through the metal shutter like it was made of paper.
There had been two “projectiles”. The first had been Aleister Crowley on a broom and the
second had been Orsola Aquinas with a giant golden flower behind her back. Kamijou
pulled his head back just in time to avoid being decapitated by the jagged pieces of
destroyed steel.
- New Testament Volume 20 Chapter Chapter 4 Part 4
Heck he even bullet timed once as well
The “human” named Aleister held his right hand forward. He extended his thumb and
forefinger in a handgun gesture. He aimed the imaginary muzzle toward Kamijou’s belly.
And a few numbers scattered from his hand like sparks.
32, 30, 10.
“!?”
Several illusionary gunshots rang out in a row. It did not matter that the gun was flintlock.
If these had been actual lead bullets, there would have been nothing Kamijou could do.
But this was magic. That meant his surefire right hand would work against it. Having too
perfect an image of something could be both a good thing and a bad thing.
He deflected the bullets and moved right up to Aleister.
- New Testament Volume 18 Chapter 4 Part 2
But this is an outlier though so it doesn't count.
So let's analyze this shall we and a man has a handgun it should be fully loaded with 17 bullets he has a reaction time of an athletic human vs an unarmed person who has a peak human reaction and is known to aim dodge not only is he faster then this mans reaction he has experience with aim dodging.
Touma wins as soon as the man begins to reload he has peak human speed on his profile meaning he can cross a distance of 12 meters in a second what was that you said about needing a few seconds to reload a gun Touma punches him in the face gg
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you're greatly misunderstanding how precog works, there is a reason why touma can dodge supernatural stuff going even a sub sonic but can't dodge some punches, precog works by reading the changes in the environment, any use of the supernatural is bound to create some changes before it actually proceeds to act upon reality touma is subconsciously reading those that's why he can aim dodge supernatural lightnings or other dimensional arrows, and it works by reading opponent body movements too especially the unintentional moves
so when it's used vs non supernatural user is much less effective as 1) martial arts user, military personnel or expert on their weapon field don't make much unnecessary movements as they are drilled to make the most efficient move possible with no waste 2) there is not much environmental effect for using a gun he can only read the opponents eyes and arms and the direction of the muzzle
now let me analyze those quote:
ot3: supernatural origins so precog would kick in full swing, irrelevant
nt3/endymion: he ducked out and got to cover not aim dodging or anything, it's literally what i said above
ot2: izzard bullets are once again supernatural and not even bullets (ars magna waprs reality to make it as the user think)
nt20: no mention of fire arms
nt18: really ? it's a spell, it's magical in origin and not even considering it's all spiritual tripping
3 yeah he was shot once and was taken down ignoring all the other times he has been stabbed and pierce by things that are worse than that wound
i will say it again touma is highly resistant to blunt trauma , but not soo much if anything actually penetrates his torso, another time was in nt 11 flash back where he had gone in shock cause some metal fragments ruptured his stomach, it's more of a body reaction he can't do much even if he wanted
ill tell how it goes since u are not counting the range
since SBA it's in Central Park, New York City so effective cover is not that plentiful, again since SBA we go by the max range so assuming he's using a normal pistol that's around 100 m, so fight start if touma is lucky there is some bulletproof cover near him and he immediately ducks behind, Dale not being an idiot stops firing and waits for him to peek out while moving himself in a more advantageous position where there is no cover to hide behind and has clear line of sight, now even assuming touma get's more lucky and find some more cover and is able to to dodge most some other bullets he still needs to cover 100m while under fire and while yes he can advantage of him reloading for a few seconds to jump cover he can just keep moving until touma makes a mistake, his only hope is that he misses all the bullets he as with him , I assume he would bring 3 cartridges here, the amount of luck touma needs to have a chance of not getting hit in any important area is already high, now add the fact that if he hit him in the arm or foot, while not stopping him would incapacitate him in the fight as both have same AP and dura, so even assuming he gets close he literally needs to be pristine as dale is skilled in hand to hand too (probably police training so touma precog would work even less), this is assuming the best possible scenario with plentiful cover and dale not trying to hide and snipe him
never forget both fighter can move and u can't expect having 100% optimal conditions for 1 fighter
so when it's used vs non supernatural user is much less effective as 1) martial arts user, military personnel or expert on their weapon field don't make much unnecessary movements as they are drilled to make the most efficient move possible with no waste 2) there is not much environmental effect for using a gun he can only read the opponents eyes and arms and the direction of the muzzle
now let me analyze those quote:
ot3: supernatural origins so precog would kick in full swing, irrelevant
nt3/endymion: he ducked out and got to cover not aim dodging or anything, it's literally what i said above
ot2: izzard bullets are once again supernatural and not even bullets (ars magna waprs reality to make it as the user think)
nt20: no mention of fire arms
nt18: really ? it's a spell, it's magical in origin and not even considering it's all spiritual tripping
3 yeah he was shot once and was taken down ignoring all the other times he has been stabbed and pierce by things that are worse than that wound
i will say it again touma is highly resistant to blunt trauma , but not soo much if anything actually penetrates his torso, another time was in nt 11 flash back where he had gone in shock cause some metal fragments ruptured his stomach, it's more of a body reaction he can't do much even if he wanted
ill tell how it goes since u are not counting the range
since SBA it's in Central Park, New York City so effective cover is not that plentiful, again since SBA we go by the max range so assuming he's using a normal pistol that's around 100 m, so fight start if touma is lucky there is some bulletproof cover near him and he immediately ducks behind, Dale not being an idiot stops firing and waits for him to peek out while moving himself in a more advantageous position where there is no cover to hide behind and has clear line of sight, now even assuming touma get's more lucky and find some more cover and is able to to dodge most some other bullets he still needs to cover 100m while under fire and while yes he can advantage of him reloading for a few seconds to jump cover he can just keep moving until touma makes a mistake, his only hope is that he misses all the bullets he as with him , I assume he would bring 3 cartridges here, the amount of luck touma needs to have a chance of not getting hit in any important area is already high, now add the fact that if he hit him in the arm or foot, while not stopping him would incapacitate him in the fight as both have same AP and dura, so even assuming he gets close he literally needs to be pristine as dale is skilled in hand to hand too (probably police training so touma precog would work even less), this is assuming the best possible scenario with plentiful cover and dale not trying to hide and snipe him
never forget both fighter can move and u can't expect having 100% optimal conditions for 1 fighter
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you're greatly misunderstanding how precog works, there is a reason why touma can dodge supernatural stuff going even a sub sonic but can't dodge some punches, precog works by reading the changes in the environment, any use of the supernatural is bound to create some changes before it actually proceeds to act upon reality touma is subconsciously reading those that's why he can aim dodge supernatural lightnings or other dimensional arrows, and it works by reading opponent body movements too especially the unintentional moves
so when it's used vs non supernatural user is much less effective as 1) martial arts user, military personnel or expert on their weapon field don't make much unnecessary movements as they are drilled to make the most efficient move possible with no waste 2) there is not much environmental effect for using a gun he can only read the opponents eyes and arms and the direction of the muzzle
Head cannon that's is literally never stated
Your wasted movement theory doesn't hold up well to scrutiny as shown here
After that quick word, he had Aneri provide him with more high performance movements.
With a roar, the Power Lifter’s steel arm tore through the air.
Kamijou clenched his teeth and swung his upper body around. The massive fist missed its
mark and broke through the elevator door behind the pointy-haired boy. When Kamijou
realized the machine was preparing for a kick, he half-rolled out into the elevator hall to
put some distance between them.
The Power Lifter slowly stepped forward.
Hamazura slammed the two steel fists together and answered the other boy.
- New Testament Volume 12 Chapter 2 Part 11
The high performance moves from a power suit should have no wasted movement whatsoever especially when powered by Aneri a discount reading of thoth which has the calculation ability to outdo Accelerator and Touma dodges these attacks
Kamijou made a fist without too much power and quietly readied himself.
There was a blank of one second.
Kamijou and Tsuchimikado lightly touched their fists to each other only once and—
In that moment, they commenced.
With a loud stomping noise, Tsuchimikado dove right in at Kamijou in one step.
This time, Kamijou had pulled one leg behind him so his foot didn’t get crushed.
However, it didn’t change the fact that he had closed in on him.
At super-close range, so close their noses could touch, Tsuchimikado let loose a fist. It
was a wide right hook, tracing a sideways half-moon—camouflaging a Brain Shaker!
“...!!”
Kamijou immediately moved his left hand to the back of his head to protect it. That
strike had directly shaken his cerebellum, which controlled his sense of balance. It was a
true killing blow, and if it hit him, death from the single attack was inevitable
After tanking a blow that should render him unable to move he can defend from a few of Tsuchimikado's attacks not perfectly as Tscuchimikado manages to land a combo on Touma using a feint and take him out of the fight if his precog didn't work how is he dodging attacks from Tscuchimikado as even while heavily injured Tscuchimikado was still faster than Touma so he should thoroughly outpace Touma now
When he tried to straighten, Oriana forcefully rammed her shoulder into Kamijou’s
chest. He managed to hold up both hands, but the impact came from above his guard.
Her tackle could have broken down a door, and it sent Kamijou flying right back where
he’d come. Every time his body bounced on the jagged asphalt, intense pain shot
through him.
- Toaru Majutsu no Index Volume 10, Chapter 8 Part 4
A fatigued injured Touma could defend against Oriana martial arts
Then, Tatemiya, rotating his entire body, whipped his blade to the side in a straight
horizontal sweep. But it seemed like he noticed it after he started the swing...that
Kamijou, his back against the wall, was smiling fearlessly.
(I can do this...!!)
Kamijou crouched down as far as he possibly could.
He knew that if he fled to the side when his opponent brought the sword down, he’d
normally follow up with a horizontal slash. Bringing the sword up again would have
created an additional step.
With his body as low as he could get it, he charged Tatemiya, his face low enough that he
could lick the ground. He didn’t need to think about anything but a horizontal slashing
attack. Even if Tatemiya had tried to unleash a top-to-bottom one, he’d be a beat too late.
If he did that, then Kamijou’s fist would reach him before he could swing his sword
completely.
So Tatemiya Saiji had gone with a directly horizontal sweep, just as Kamijou had
predicted from the beginning.
Kamijou let the sword graze right over his head, and though his heart was in the iron
grip of terror...
“Woh...ohhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh!!” he shouted, clenched his fist, and lunged right into
Tatemiya.
- Toaru Majutsu no Index Volume 7, Chapter 2 Part 7
Predicts Tatemiya's sword strikes despite him being a master swordsman
A fistfight began.
The Tsuchimikado Motoharu that Kamijou Touma knew was well-versed in banned
techniques and he would not hesitate to use them to accomplish his goals. He knew just
how much pain those attacks would bring, but he used them anyway. He forced down
his own thoughts, gritted his teeth, endured each and every tragedy, and ultimately put
an end to a much greater tragedy. That was the sort of person he was.
That was how he fought and those were his principles.
This was an opponent Kamijou could never defeat.
Yet…
And yet…
“Wh-what?”
Kamijou twisted his upper body to the side and evaded the arm that was violently swung
toward him. He succeeded. He also avoided the fingers stabbing for his eyes and the foot
trying to wave its way between his legs. Sometimes he would evade and sometimes he
would block.
It was not simply that Tsuchimikado’s speed had dropped.
In fact, despite all of his injuries, Tsuchimikado’s speed remained greater than
Kamijou’s.
However…
That speed was meaningless.
When he had defeated Kamijou with overwhelming force before, he had given off a
hopeless sense of intimidation. That was now gone.
Kamijou saw nothing but actions before his eyes. Nothing but movements. Nothing but
phenomena. That was all it was. It was as if he was looking at an empty shell of the
human named Tsuchimikado Motoharu. This was a mere shadow of his former self that
could not even be called the ruins of the original boy.
And so…
107
“What are you doing?”
A dull sound rang out.
Tsuchimikado had not struck Kamijou with one of his banned techniques. It was the
opposite. It had been an amateurish punch thrown just by swinging a fist as hard as one
could. It had flown straight into Tsuchimikado’s jaw with disturbing accuracy.
Tsuchimikado’s upper body swayed.
Kamijou had gotten in a clean hit, but he felt nothing in his heart.
After being hit, Tsuchimikado continued further forward, so Kamijou was forced to fight
back with punches and kicks. Each and every strike hit Tsuchimikado. They all ended up
hitting. Each time, the boy staggered. His feet grew more and more unsteady. This was
not the Tsuchimikado that Kamijou knew. It was like watching a king of professional
wrestling passed out drunk in a filthy back alley. Kamijou’s heart was filled with
overwhelming despair.
“What are you doing!?”
He wanted Tsuchimikado to tell him he had interpreted this wrong.
He wanted to hear that this had all been a game. He wanted the boy to turn everything
around with a single special attack.
He wanted the boy to coldly demonstrate the difference between an expert and an
amateur and then arrogantly announce that he would take care of everything.
And yet…
Sounds of great impacts rang out again and again. Tsuchimikado Motoharu finally
collapsed to the floor. Kamijou climbed on top of him. He threw his fist down on the boy
again and again and again while tears welled up in his eyes.
“What is this? What the hell is this!? Is this really you? Is this who Tsuchimikado
Motoharu is!? No, it isn’t. No matter how injured you might be and no matter what
situation you might be in, you are not someone so weak you would lose to the likes of
me!!”
The very act of winning this fight felt like some tremendous blasphemy.
It was like a crowd ignoring the masterpiece a great composer poured his heart and soul
into yet giving a standing ovation to someone slamming their fingers against the piano
as a joke.
“…”
108
Even with Kamijou’s entire body weight holding him down, Tsuchimikado spat bloody
saliva at Kamijou’s face. Was he trying to blind him or was he trying to surprise him into
losing his balance? Either way, Kamijou blocked the weak surprise attack with his palm.
He was able to block it.
- New Testament Volume 7 Chapter 2 Part 13
Dodges Tsuchimikado's attacks despite him being stated to be faster than him
While she thought and clenched her teeth, Kamijou snatched the remote from her hand.
“Wai-...”
Before she could protest, the pointy-haired boy had thrown the remote at the red riding
suit as hard as he could.
This was a complete waste, much like throwing a gun without bothering to pull the trigger,
but it was still effective.
As soon as the remote hit the full-face helmet, the riding suit lost its balance while clinging
to the wall and trying to pierce through Shokuhou’s body. And once he lost control, that
pursuer riding the rails of an invisible roller coaster became quite fragile.
What wasted movement is there from this the
Touma's precog has been stated to work on outside stimuli Rensa stopped all facial cues and martial twitches in her body this is something only she could do no human can do this with all outside stimuli gone Touma was helpless but even the most well trained martial artist still have facial cues and muscle twitches
now let me analyze those quote:
ot3: supernatural origins so precog would kick in full swing, irrelevant
that's completely taken out of context that was used to sure how the narration lies to you not how Touma can dodge bullets
now let me analyze those quote:
nt3/endymion: he ducked out and got to cover not aim dodging or anything, it's literally what i said above
This is literally aim dodging here's the official battle wiki description
Aim Dodging refers to the technique of avoiding linear attacks by re-positioning oneself away from the path of the attack before it is fired.
That's exactly what Touma did both times
ot2: izzard bullets are once again supernatural and not even bullets (ars magna waprs reality to make it as the user think)
This feat is different as Touma had a chance to move out of the way before Izzard could pull the trigger this was all conscious so no precog ar work here
nt20: no mention of fire arms
Not a mention of firearms
it was supporting evidence for my point
nt18: really ? it's a spell, it's magical in origin and not even considering it's all spiritual tripping
Specifically to show he reacted to bullets being fired as I stated its an outlier
i will say it again touma is highly resistant to blunt trauma , but not soo much if anything actually penetrates his torso, another time was in nt 11 flash back where he had gone in shock cause some metal fragments ruptured his stomach, it's more of a body reaction he can't do much even if he wanted
pierced his torso you say
It was the noise of her stabbing his side with a shard of glass she held in her hand.
“Eh? Ah…?”
For an instant, he did not understand what had happened.
He was so confused that he did not even feel the pain.
It only started feeling real the second time.
Fukiyose Seiri was undoubtedly supposed to be on his side, but she moved her trembling
hand and twisted her wrist while holding the glass shard.
“Eh? Gbh!? Gah! Gbheh…!!”
Intense pain traveled along his spine and assaulted his entire upper body.
***
Fortunately (if that word even applied in this situation), the missiles which numbered in
the double digits seemed to land on the other side of the pile of rubble which had been the
subway station. The black silhouette of that giant hill was the only thing visible as the
color white filled the world.
But that did not mean they were safe.
A whirl of tremendous heat swept over them. The leaves of the broken and fallen roadside
trees changed color as they were audibly scorched. Kamijou frantically shut his eyes and
held his breath, but he felt his shut lips stick together to an odd extent.
And more importantly, the solid ground below him suddenly crumbled downwards.
That was when he recalled that Shibuya Station had a large open area that extended deep
underground.
He fell.
He seemed to fall forever.
Even if a structure several meters deep had completely collapsed and become a single
giant hole, he would not fall for this long.
Or perhaps the explosion had knocked him unconscious and this was a dream.
Amid his vague sense of reality and the passage of time, Kamijou heard a girl speak.
“Do you understand now?”
It was Magic God Othinus.
The blonde-haired, eyepatch-wearing girl spoke to him while falling upside down
alongside him.
“This is a world with a different point of view.”
“What? What point of view did you change to make this world!?”
“Do you still not get it?” She laughed mockingly. “Their point of view concerning you.”
♦
Kamijou Touma awoke to a dull impact.
- New Testament Volume 9 Chapter 6 Part 2-3
Fights his friend Agomi shortly after this Agomi being stated to be one of the 4 most athletic people in the class
Spiritual Tripping.
This magic forcibly drove the desired image into the viewer’s mind.
This spell gave the value of the real object to the pantomime.
(I’m going to be…stabbed!!)
Kamijou immediately tried to roll away.
But Aleister jabbed into empty air regardless.
No.
No!!
“The Blasting Rod.”
With that short warning, a pleasant sound stabbed into Kamijou’s right shoulder. A dark
red hole as thick as his littler finger was opened there. An invisible blade had stabbed him.
Even without an explanation, his instincts and the intense pain told him the answer.
“Ugwaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh!?”
The range was clearly longer than the image in the back of his mind. Could it change this
much just because it had no physical form? That was Kamijou’s guess, but something was
not right.
He had seen that conflict.
Magic only appeared to have infinite possibilities to those who did not understand how it
worked. He only had to recall the magicians from that Golden age. They had always
followed some kind of rules to produce a limited power that they then used to decorate
the world as they saw fit.
Say you wanted to extend the length because the attack could not reach.
To do so, there had to be rules or a theory that allowed it.
“The Blasting…Rod!! Is that what did it!?”
“It amplifies the magic’s power to ten times what the target thinks it is. That is the surest
and simplest symbol of power that my one absolute master, Allan Bennett, specialized in.
Although to avoid jealousy from foolish Westcott or Mathers, he disguised it as a trick that
sent the target’s refined magic power out of control to knock them unconscious without
harming them.”
Kamijou did not have time to wonder if the initial attack that had hit him, Tsuchimikado,
and the others had been amplified like that.
13, 5, 32. In other words, the sword again.
He dodged based on the assumption that the length of the rapier would be ten times the
image he saw in his head, but a dark red hole was opened in his side.
“Gbh!?”
“When you assume the length will be extended ten times, the Blasting Rod uses that as
the basis for the ten times amplification. Thus, the blade is extended one hundred times.”
- New Testament Volume 18 Chapter 4 Part 2
He heard a dull sound before he felt anything.
“Gah?”
A merciless blow had hit him in the right side. What was that stabbing into him there? It
was not a drill or an icepick. It was skinnier than a pen, but it was in fact a knife. It may
have been designed for slipping through the gaps in an armored jacket to hit someone in
the vitals.
But more than that, there was the person holding it.
The person who had snuck up close enough to feel the heat of their breaths was not an
ancient ninja or an assassin squad that used electronic camouflage to blend into the
background. This person had been in plain view from the beginning. They had been there,
but he had overlooked them.
It was the part-timer girl.
The miniskirt Santa carrying a sign for a cake shop.
“Damn…you!?”
“No hard feelings, okay? I don’t have anything against you; this is only a job. If I screw
this up, I’ll never hear the end of it from the higher ups.”
Her long blonde hair swayed as she whispered emotionlessly even in this situation.
During Halloween or Christmastime, extreme costumes were the best way of hiding one’s
identity. Being the most conspicuous person prevented anyone from remembering much
about you. You could be attacked head on yet only be able to remember that it was
someone in red clothes and a miniskirt that did so.
(She wasn’t watching us from a distance.)
Something reflected the sunlight in the December sky.
It was an airship.
Those were seen all over Academy City and it had large screen on its belly. And the thick
protective glass covering the screen reflected the light. But he never would have noticed
that large mirror by viewing his map app.
There had been another point from which someone could view the entire area using
reflected and refracted light.
(She was here the whole time waiting for us to emerge!?)
“Last Order!!”
He gathered the last of his strength and shoved the small girl as far away as he could
manage.
But…
“Useless.”
A crack ran down the road, but not in a straight line; it snaked along and clearly divided
the Santa assassin and Last Order from Kamijou.
The ground rose up as if abducting the small girl and carrying her into the sky.
But Kamijou did not have time to just watch. Dirt fell down like a scattershot blast,
sending him spiraling through the air.
He still had the knife in his side.
If he slammed into the ground now, he would not survive this. The shock would cause the
knife to shred his insides.
Then it would all be over.
The pursuit would end and no one would know who had taken Last Order.
“Damn it!?”
There was nothing he could do.
Once his feet left the ground, he had already lost all right to control his movements.
The object sticking into his body was already gouging into his soul before he even hit the
ground.
Once he did hit, the impact would sever through it all.
- Genesis Testament Volume 1 Chapter 2 Part 4
Of course, the linked twenty-meter lance cut across just above the ground with
tremendous speed.
And what did this do?
Kamijou Touma received a direct blow, doubled over, and flew into the air.
“Dbh....!?”
The pain assaulting his upper body was so great that his sense of pain failed and he
merely went numb. The boy flew over fifteen meters before landing and rolling along the
ground.
Afterwards, the numbness left and the pain returned.
“Ghaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaahhhhhhhhhhhhh!?”
Kamijou writhed around on the ground from the intense pain, but he saw a different
lance approaching from a different direction causing him to frantically roll out of the
way. He was gritting his teeth, but a red liquid still flowed from his mouth.
- Toaru Majutsu no Index Volume 18, Chapter 7 Part 4
Pomegranate and garden balsam.
The giant fruits swelled up larger than Orsola and then burst like directional mines.
There was no room for his right hand.
Hundreds of small “bullets” covered not just a point or a line but an entire surface. They
struck Kamijou Touma’s entire body like a wall.
“Human, you fool!!”
The spiky-haired boy trembled as he rolled along the ground and palm-sized Othinus
clung to his clothing and shouted at him.
- New Testament Volume 20 Chapter 4 Part 7
Also, his blunt durability isn't that high his explosive and energy resistance is where it's at
since SBA it's in Central Park, New York City so effective cover is not that plentiful, again since SBA we go by the max range so assuming he's using a normal pistol that's around 100 m, so fight start if touma is lucky there is some bulletproof cover near him and he immediately ducks behind, Dale not being an idiot stops firing and waits for him to peek out while moving himself in a more advantageous position where there is no cover to hide behind and has clear line of sight, now even assuming touma get's more lucky and find some more cover and is able to to dodge most some other bullets he still needs to cover 100m while under fire and while yes he can advantage of him reloading for a few seconds to jump cover he can just keep moving until touma makes a mistake, his only hope is that he misses all the bullets he as with him , I assume he would bring 3 cartridges here, the amount of luck touma needs to have a chance of not getting hit in any important area is already high, now add the fact that if he hit him in the arm or foot, while not stopping him would incapacitate him in the fight as both have same AP and dura, so even assuming he gets close he literally needs to be pristine as dale is skilled in hand to hand too (probably police training so touma precog would work even less), this is assuming the best possible scenario with plentiful cover and dale not trying to hide and snipe him
The situation solely relies on the fact that you took away his ability to aim dodge also simple police training ain't gonna do shit to Touma Orianna a fairly proficient martial artist couldn't solo Touma even while he was injured and fatigued from sports events if he is on the level of Tsuchimikado I could see an argument but Cooper is slower than Touma as well so he is even more at a disadvantage there AP is similar unless you want to go into outliers
So yeah Touma wins due to the reasons stated above
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we literally have it in the profile page :Literally referred in the original Japanese novels as Premonition Perception or Sense of Foreboding (前兆の感知 Zenchō no Kanchi), but translated as Precognition in the fan translation for simplicity. Precognition is the term used by characters to refer to the skill unconsciously developed by Kamijou Touma through his many battles. Touma has gotten into such a plethora of fights that he now can subconsciously anticipate attacks coming his way. Combined with his reflexes and the courage to keep his body and thoughts moving allows him to judge accurately what to do next. This works because Touma is capable of unconsciously analyzing minute changes in the battlefield and involuntary movements made by his enemies that likely not even they are aware of. For example, Misaka Mikoto's electromagnetic fields making metal items around her resonate. Even if Touma doesn't consciously register these things, his unconscious does, allowing him to accurately predict the path of an attack and move his body accordingly to stop it with Imagine Breaker, dodge it or try to reduce the damage to his vitals in case the former two options aren't possible. It's because of this skill that Touma has been able to react to supersonic attacks, but it's been noted that if he consciously takes note of it in battle and tries to use it then it would likely fail. Due to the mechanics of this skill, it can be sealed by an opponent who can restrict the information he receives, like the cyborg Rensa who could completely freeze her face and control all of her body involuntary muscular movements. This skill can be more simply described as a "sixth sense" to react to upcoming attacks.
yes but u don't need precognition to tell if a robot is trying to kick you, as it literally says it was charging the kick
i assume the quote must be from ot 4 , he did not tho, it was a feint, u forgot the next paragraph
"Killing moves—he was naive to think that they were skills that would always defeat an enemy when used. It was a perfectly absolute technique that just by giving the name of, the enemy would tremble and yield the path without him even having used it. That’s why it was crowned with the term "certain death". But by the time Kamijou realized it, it was too late. He had purposely brought one hand behind him at super-close range. He was defenseless, just asking for Tsuchimikado to hit his unprotected body. On the other hand, none of Tsuchimikado’s motions had any waste. His other hand, his left, didn’t create a fist. His flat hand, left open, arced through the air at terrifying speed and slammed into Kamijou’s ear. A direct impact ran straight through his ear to his eardrums and ear canals, and the strength evaporated from his legs. His sense of balance had been destroyed. “Geh…gh, ah-!?” His strength faded with that one attack. A cold sweat broke out all over him. Tsuchimikado’s right arm came flying toward Kamijou, whose knees were about to give out with a jerk, without wasting a second. It wasn’t a fist; it was a hammer-like elbow strike. Even though Kamijou could see it, he couldn’t send orders to his exhausted limbs. Tsuchimikado’s intense right elbow didn’t hit his face or his chest—it was stampeding toward his throat. The impact rang. Kamijou’s breath stopped. The fact that his windpipe hadn’t been crushed was nothing short of a miracle. His knees collapsed. However much he persevered, however much he tried to endure through it, he couldn’t muster up any more strength. “…Gah-aahh!!” Despite that, Kamijou clenched tight a fist. Crumpling toward the floor, he nonetheless bit his lip and flung a right fist toward Tsuchimikado’s face. The desperate fist, with all his power behind it, collided directly with it. However, it didn’t make any more noise than a light popping sound"
it was a 2 vs 1 stiyl and touma vs her and he did not defend he just tanked the hits he was getting beaten up and could not even land a strike until siyl messed her timings
"Kamijou shouted loudly, clenched his fist, and dashed in front of Tatemiya. Even Orsola, who was on the same side as him, was scared and stunned by his momentum. Even Tatemiya, who used his entire strength to swing that two-handed sword, couldn’t dodge Kamijou’s punch. At that moment, Tatemiya Saiji disappeared. Tatemiya, who was supposed to be in front of Kamijou, instantly backed away about a meter; and the sword, which had been swung horizontally, was now raised above his head for some reason. It was like time was reversed and everything had restarted. It was like an illusion that deliberately lured Kamijou in."
see this is why u read the whole chapther
ho u don't, this was in nt 7 where tshuchikado was HEAVILY, and i mean it, injured by using magic , getting shoot and not sleeping or eating cause he was all over the city to stop the agiate plan, touma after the fight clearly comments he should not have been able to beat him normally
"Even with Kamijou’s entire body weight holding him down, Tsuchimikado spat bloody saliva at Kamijou’s face. Was he trying to blind him or was he trying to surprise him into losing his balance? Either way, Kamijou blocked the weak surprise attack with his palm. He was able to block it. Tsuchimikado Motoharu may have run out of ideas. All light left his eyes and the back of his head fell to the floor. Why had this happened? What did Kamijou gain from this victory? It had ended before he knew what had caused it or what this result meant. He could not imagine what ideals had been in conflict. He could not imagine what anyone had wanted to achieve at the risk of their lives. His opponent had been a fellow human being, but he could not imagine how he might have ended up in the same place had conditions been different. And yet… It was over. “What the hell…?” Clear drops fell from Kamijou Touma’s eyelids. “What the hell!?” These were the most bitter and pathetic tasting tears in the world. He instinctually knew that this was the flavor of disgrace. “I shouldn’t have been able to win no matter what I tried… There has to be some trick. Something I’m not aware of!! Dammit, don’t make me accept this ending. I don’t even know who I let win! Who did I give victory to here!? Tsuchimikado, who were you fighting? I wasn’t your final objective, was I!? Why did you even have to continue fighting until you were so worn down!?”"
Touma's precog has been stated to work on outside stimuli Rensa stopped all facial cues and martial twitches in her body this is something only she could do no human can do this with all outside stimuli gone Touma was helpless but even the most well trained martial artist still have facial cues and muscle twitches
and yes that obviously works but a non-trained user will make wide swings and telegraph their move more, that's what i mean touma in the whole series always lost to people with some actual training (not street fighting i mean training), even with his precog he still got ambushed by the special forces in camo
expert in their field can use feint , and as we can use touma is very vulnerable to them (espcially consideirng precog is subconscius)
Aim Dodging refers to the technique of avoiding linear attacks by re-positioning oneself away from the path of the attack before it is fired.
That's exactly what Touma did both times
no, he goes to cover u don't see him dodge each bullet and move forward, ever, he just goes to the nearest cover and only leaves when he thinks it safe
tell me 1 time touma dodges multiple bullets in a open field
all those example from the quotes are about stabs no further than a few centimeters: "shard of glass","A dark red hole as thick as his littler finger was opened there", "It was skinnier than a pen, but it was in fact a knife"
unlike a bullet that creates a hole in the body so it goes full length or a ruptured stomach
and for ot18 lance it did not stab him it just hit him like a club, while the nt20 are called "bullets" for a reason, they are seed they don't penetrate skin he was just hurt
no she was soloing him quite easily then styil came out to help
"Oriana specialized in using close ranged combat with her body, and long ranged combat with her spells. No matter how much Kamijou waved his hands and feet around to fight, or how many times he missed by a step, it was like there was a protective barrier between both of them, his feet normally being dodged at the last minute. If so, he couldn’t attack Oriana like that. No matter how much he tried to chase her, no matter how much he tried to hassle her, no matter how he desperately swung his fist, it was the same."
"Oriana’s breathing was interrupted, as she backed off and fell. She couldn’t breathe properly as she continued to roll backwards, trying to maintain the distance. She wanted to tear a flashcard, but her mouth was trembling so much that she couldn’t do it properly. It was a direct hit. The reason was simple, because she couldn’t anticipate Kamijou and Stiyl’s movements. If they were just working individually, Oriana would definitely read them, lure them, counter them, and win without even a scratch. However. “Innocentius!” Stiyl gave the instructions, and the giant flame god continued to advance. Just as Oriana was about to turn around and dodge, Stiyl moved in from behind and chanted a new spell. “Kenaz (Flames). Purisaz Naupiz (A gift of pain for)—” 1That was the spell that he needed to chant in order to create his main weapon, the flame sword. Just as Stiyl was about to pass by Kamijou, however… “Stop blocking, idiot!” “How about you get aside!!” The duo’s teamwork rating was 0, as both their powers were obstructing each other. But their messy movements were still directed at Oriana. (I can’t read them…!?)"
ur whole point is that he can Dodge bullets, but he has never shown he can dodge bullets without using something as cover, and that's the author intention as he said in one of the afterward that the serie would be over if touma can beat someone with a gun :
- Chapter 14: V.S. “The Police of the Front Stage” — Round_06.
The opponent Kamijou Touma completely lost to was not a monster from the magic or science sides. It was a normal soldier who had gathered as much normal power as possible. This functions as an important brake in this series. If he can ever defeat someone like that without thinking, the series is as good as over.
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we literally have it in the profile page :Literally referred in the original Japanese novels as Premonition Perception or Sense of Foreboding (前兆の感知 Zenchō no Kanchi), but translated as Precognition in the fan translation for simplicity. Precognition is the term used by characters to refer to the skill unconsciously developed by Kamijou Touma through his many battles. Touma has gotten into such a plethora of fights that he now can subconsciously anticipate attacks coming his way. Combined with his reflexes and the courage to keep his body and thoughts moving allows him to judge accurately what to do next. This works because Touma is capable of unconsciously analyzing minute changes in the battlefield and involuntary movements made by his enemies that likely not even they are aware of. For example, Misaka Mikoto's electromagnetic fields making metal items around her resonate. Even if Touma doesn't consciously register these things, his unconscious does, allowing him to accurately predict the path of an attack and move his body accordingly to stop it with Imagine Breaker, dodge it or try to reduce the damage to his vitals in case the former two options aren't possible. It's because of this skill that Touma has been able to react to supersonic attacks, but it's been noted that if he consciously takes note of it in battle and tries to use it then it would likely fail. Due to the mechanics of this skill, it can be sealed by an opponent who can restrict the information he receives, like the cyborg Rensa who could completely freeze her face and control all of her body involuntary muscular movements. This skill can be more simply described as a "sixth sense" to react to upcoming attacks.
I was talking about your wasted movement theory. This also came from the same page that says this: His Precognition works by unconsciously reacting to the opponent's involuntary movements prior to an attack, so it doesn't work against people like Saints who move too fast for him to react to)
yes but u don't need precognition to tell if a robot is trying to kick you, as it literally says it was charging the kick
It was charging a kick because it was a powerlifter that doesn't use its legs that still doesn't explain the first attack. You also don't need precognition to aim dodge yet here we are
i assume the quote must be from ot 4 , he did not tho, it was a feint, u forgot the next paragraph
"Killing moves—he was naive to think that they were skills that would always defeat an enemy when used. It was a perfectly absolute technique that just by giving the name of, the enemy would tremble and yield the path without him even having used it. That’s why it was crowned with the term "certain death". But by the time Kamijou realized it, it was too late. He had purposely brought one hand behind him at super-close range. He was defenseless, just asking for Tsuchimikado to hit his unprotected body. On the other hand, none of Tsuchimikado’s motions had any waste. His other hand, his left, didn’t create a fist. His flat hand, left open, arced through the air at terrifying speed and slammed into Kamijou’s ear. A direct impact ran straight through his ear to his eardrums and ear canals, and the strength evaporated from his legs. His sense of balance had been destroyed. “Geh…gh, ah-!?” His strength faded with that one attack. A cold sweat broke out all over him. Tsuchimikado’s right arm came flying toward Kamijou, whose knees were about to give out with a jerk, without wasting a second. It wasn’t a fist; it was a hammer-like elbow strike. Even though Kamijou could see it, he couldn’t send orders to his exhausted limbs. Tsuchimikado’s intense right elbow didn’t hit his face or his chest—it was stampeding toward his throat. The impact rang. Kamijou’s breath stopped. The fact that his windpipe hadn’t been crushed was nothing short of a miracle. His knees collapsed. However much he persevered, however much he tried to endure through it, he couldn’t muster up any more strength. “…Gah-aahh!!” Despite that, Kamijou clenched tight a fist. Crumpling toward the floor, he nonetheless bit his lip and flung a right fist toward Tsuchimikado’s face. The desperate fist, with all his power behind it, collided directly with it. However, it didn’t make any more noise than a light popping sound"
I mentioned the feint I was talking about the foot stomp that got him prior that he avoided later.
and yes that obviously works but a non-trained user will make wide swings and telegraph their move more, that's what i mean touma in the whole series always lost to people with some actual training (not street fighting i mean training), even with his precog he still got ambushed by the special forces in camo
expert in their field can use feint , and as we can use touma is very vulnerable to them (espcially consideirng precog is subconscius)
Tsuchimikado used feints cause he knew exactly how Touma fought
no, he goes to cover u don't see him dodge each bullet and move forward, ever, he just goes to the nearest cover and only leaves when he thinks it safe
tell me 1 time touma dodges multiple bullets in a open field
Your describing bullet timing not aim dodging here's a Reddit post to tell you the difference
all those example from the quotes are about stabs no further than a few centimeters: "shard of glass","A dark red hole as thick as his littler finger was opened there", "It was skinnier than a pen, but it was in fact a knife"
unlike a bullet that creates a hole in the body so it goes full length or a ruptured stomach
and for ot18 lance it did not stab him it just hit him like a club, while the nt20 are called "bullets" for a reason, they are seed they don't penetrate skin he was just hurt
You just said pierced in the torso and gave no qualifications for what counted as an actual feat
no she was soloing him quite easily then styil came out to help
"Oriana specialized in using close ranged combat with her body, and long ranged combat with her spells. No matter how much Kamijou waved his hands and feet around to fight, or how many times he missed by a step, it was like there was a protective barrier between both of them, his feet normally being dodged at the last minute. If so, he couldn’t attack Oriana like that. No matter how much he tried to chase her, no matter how much he tried to hassle her, no matter how he desperately swung his fist, it was the same."
"Oriana’s breathing was interrupted, as she backed off and fell. She couldn’t breathe properly as she continued to roll backwards, trying to maintain the distance. She wanted to tear a flashcard, but her mouth was trembling so much that she couldn’t do it properly. It was a direct hit. The reason was simple, because she couldn’t anticipate Kamijou and Stiyl’s movements. If they were just working individually, Oriana would definitely read them, lure them, counter them, and win without even a scratch. However. “Innocentius!” Stiyl gave the instructions, and the giant flame god continued to advance. Just as Oriana was about to turn around and dodge, Stiyl moved in from behind and chanted a new spell. “Kenaz (Flames). Purisaz Naupiz (A gift of pain for)—” 1That was the spell that he needed to chant in order to create his main weapon, the flame sword. Just as Stiyl was about to pass by Kamijou, however… “Stop blocking, idiot!” “How about you get aside!!” The duo’s teamwork rating was 0, as both their powers were obstructing each other. But their messy movements were still directed at Oriana. (I can’t read them…!?)"
Not the fight I was talking about but ok. Touma was fatigued and injured from being rag-dolled by his class in the sports event and the constant running this is why his first punch didn't knock her out in their first scuffle. Touma is now even weaker shown by how his punch combined with Styils's isn't doing the same amount of damage it was previously
ur whole point is that he can Dodge bullets, but he has never shown he can dodge bullets without using something as cover, and that's the author intention as he said in one of the afterward that the serie would be over if touma can beat someone with a gun :
- Chapter 14: V.S. “The Police of the Front Stage” — Round_06.
The opponent Kamijou Touma completely lost to was not a monster from the magic or science sides. It was a normal soldier who had gathered as much normal power as possible. This functions as an important brake in this series. If he can ever defeat someone like that without thinking, the series is as good as over.
The very same author who wrote this bull shit
However, before he could actually use it, the girl’s spear sliced off the barrel of the
handgun as well as the front of his helmet. In the next instant, the boy’s fist slammed
into the attacker’s face. The silver soldier collapsed backwards and the boy spoke to him
in Japanese.
- New Testament Volume 3 Chapter 5 Part 5
It came from the footsteps of a large group of Anti-Skill. They were fully equipped and even held guns in their hands. Kamijou initially assumed they must have stumbled across some kind of incident, but he was wrong. As soon as his eyes met those of Anti-Skill, the guns all aimed in his direction.
“Shit!!”
He frantically escaped back into the container just as several gun shots exploded through the air. Orange sparks flew from the metal door.
Road to Endymion, Chapter 5, Part 1
“Eeee!? You’ve got it all wrong, Anti-Skill-san! We have nothing to do with that kind of supernatural fighter...Gaaahhhhh!?”
Kamijou’s sentence turned into some sort of yell at the end because he only got a stream of bullets as a response and had to frantically grab Index’s hand and head for cover. They were rubber bullets for suppressing riots, but they would still hurt if they hit you. It was not a good idea to just stand there when a shower of them was headed your way.
Index SP, Chapter 3, Part 1
This boy had faced the esper power of Academy City’s #1 and the ultimate magic of a true
Magic God, but what he feared most was the ordinary martial arts that anyone could
learn.
“Oh.”
But there was no turning back now.
Neoka Norito intended to win this even it meant throwing out his pride. He was
challenging the boy using his rescue squad body, not his power as a magician or a member
of the board of directors.
Kamijou Touma had pushed him to this point.
This was the Neoka Norito he had most wanted to see.
So how could he turn away now?
How could he patiently keep his distance and face the man the smart way!?
“Ohhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh
hhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh!!!!!!”
He roared and stepped forward.
Two full-power fists crossed in the air.
A dull sound followed.
Kamijou Touma definitely heard it ringing in his skull rather than his ears.
In a pure competition of arm strength, he was no match for the man.
Neoka’s fist had slammed into his cheek, but Kamijou’s fist felt nothing. It had wandered
right past this powerful foe’s face.
He had failed to land the cross counter.
However.
“Did you think…”
Kamijou Touma’s brain was rattled, but he could still move his fist.
So he spoke.
“That was just a punch?”
“!?”
His knees were already shaking and he did not have enough strength left for a fierce rush
of attacks.
So he simply opened his clenched fist.
180
Specifically, he revealed what was hidden in that palm right next to the man’s face. It was
his own blood. He flicked his fingers to launch the drops of blood soaking so much of his
body.
But.
Even that could be used to blind an enemy if used well.
“Sorry about the cheap move.”
“Tch!!”
The man used his fingers to wipe the blood from his eyes and shook his head, but an
opening was an opening.
Blood would coagulate, especially when exposed to oxygen or other living things.
“From the moment I heard you were in a rescue squad, I knew I couldn’t win if it came to
a fistfight. So I had to think up some way of winning even if it was dirty and underhanded.
Just like you did!!”
- Genesis Testament Volume 1 Chapter 4 Part 4
Kamijou looked down into the elevator shaft.
The great drop made his legs tremble, but he did see someone inside that darkness.
It matched the situation he had seen on the monitor in the Dianoid’s lower level.
“Found you.”
Kamijou Touma made a decision.
He did not have a machine like the Power Lifter or any magic that let him fly.
He did not even have a simple lifeline.
But if Hamazura Shiage and the Magic God came into contact here, he might never be
able to feel that normal fear again. He might be once more thrown into that twisted golden
world and crushed by that “happy” world filled with smiles.
And so the pointy-haired boy did not hesitate.
He sent himself plunging into that deep, deep pit that had to be between twenty to forty
stories above the surface.
***
It turned out he was being naïve.
A deafening sound reached his ears.
A moment later, a pointy-haired boy fell from directly above, poured his full weight into
a flying kick at the back-worn unit of the Power Lifter, and finally tore Hamazura’s steel
arm from the elevator shaft wall.
He did not even have time to cry out.
In no time, he was bound by gravity and the two boys fell together.
- New Testament Volume 12 Chapter 2 Part 9-10
and thought it was ok for a normal high school boy to do
Also, the argument for Cooper winning with martial arts skills doesn't work as he is too slow almost every martial artist he fought was faster or of comparable speeds. Coopers only hope is his gun which I have addressed before.
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My arguments have become way too long basically what stops Touma from running up to Cooper and punching him in the face before he can draw his gun.
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The fact that he has to cover the distance (100m) and the central park lack of usable cover , all while not getting hit once as any substantial hit would either KO him, slow him down so he lines up for the next shoot or disabling 1 arm making the close combat fight one sided, way too unlikely, don't get me wrong if he get close without suffering any serious injury he will win thanks to superior speed
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