D (VHD) Vs. Baba: Can D get in the top 5 3-As?

[ShivaShakti]

Well either way, i'm not too sure if D can affect a type 1 abstract using his sword, with his NPI or Void Manip.

So i'll switch my vote to Incon FRA

 

[SauceSorcery]

Ah so I see. Well if one of his laws can resist Mind shenanigans then I guess Empathic Manip is out the window.

D doesn't seem to have any other options (Unsure if he could physically affect a Type 1 Abstract), so Incon FRA? Although I will ask, if Baba is 3-A with prep why he is on the top 5 strongest list?

Baba could form several mechanisms that operate independently from his will through the use of MOVE, MAKE, MORE, SHIFT, HAS, TELE and other such laws that can create motion, destruction or creation without having any semblance of a will... The game even has puzzles where you have to solve part of the puzzle while "dead" or not possessing anything, while something with MOVE does something for you.

Additionally, he can make the laws even harder to get rid of, even for baba himself by making: TEXT IS NOT PUSH. Though they can still be moved with other laws such as TELE and SHIFT.

 

[SauceSorcery]

I'm guessing that the reason why he has a second key that is effectively "BABA IS PREP" is because if you give Baba even a minute of prep time, he just forms: TEXT IS YOU then manipulates all of the laws however he wants them to be manipulated and becomes only limited by what text is available to him... And if DONE is available to him with prep time, he is 3-A.

Plus there are levels with text already formed, sometimes lots and lots of text, so I'm guessing this "already formed" logic is being applied to an entire key.

 

[Milly_Rocking_Bandit]

Well either way, i'm not too sure if D can affect a type 1 abstract using his sword, with his NPI or Void Manip.
So i'll switch my vote to Incon FRA

He forced Sacred Ancestor (a Type 1 AE) into a physical form.

 

[ShivaShakti]

Well either way, i'm not too sure if D can affect a type 1 abstract using his sword, with his NPI or Void Manip.
So i'll switch my vote to Incon FRA

He forced Sacred Ancestor (a Type 1 AE) into a physical form.

Well. You're actually right about that.

So if he can force Baba to take a physical form, he could probably try sword fighting him to death?

 

[SauceSorcery]

Could he force something like Baba to take a physical form?

As far as the game goes, he never actually "takes" a form. "BABA" is nothing more than an object that he happens to control through law hax and nothing else, implying that he doesn't really have an identity outside of his body.

Then Baba could law hax his own physical manifestation, perhaps passively through having things like NOT BABA IS EMPTY so that everything aside from the baba object becomes void haxed, turned back into nothing.

Did Sacred Ancestor have a form or identity before he was forced to have one?

 

[ShivaShakti]

Could he force something like Baba to take a physical form?
As far as the game goes, he never actually "takes" a form. "BABA" is nothing more than an object that he happens to control through law hax and nothing else, implying that he doesn't really have an identity outside of his body.

Then Baba could law hax his own physical manifestation, perhaps passively through having things like NOT BABA IS EMPTY so that everything aside from the baba object becomes void haxed, turned back into nothing.

D was able to force the Sacred Ancestor (Type 1 Abstract non corporeal) to take a physical form, and whacked him with his sword

 

[SauceSorcery]

Can he force something to have a physical form when it never had a physical form or identity before?

Did the Sacred Ancestor ever have a physical form before he was forced to have one?

 

[ShivaShakti]

Can he force something to have a physical form when it never had a physical form or identity before?

I mean yes?

The Sacred Ancestor is literally older than the universe itself and exists as the will of the night on a conceptual level. As far as we know he's never had a physical form and has just been a god the entire time.

 

[SauceSorcery]

Ah, so he can give physical forms to things that never had physical forms to begin with or ever in existence.

What about Baba law haxing his own physical manifestation? Baba has means to target all physical objects, including objects he doesn't have words for with the ALL and NOT keywords.

He could duplicate his physical manifestation indefinitely through ALL MAKES ALL.

 

[ShivaShakti]

Ah, so he can give physical forms to things that never had physical forms to begin with or ever in existence.
What about Baba law haxing his own physical manifestation? Baba has means to target all physical objects, including objects he doesn't have words for with the ALL and NOT keywords.

He could duplicate his physical manifestation indefinitely through ALL MAKES ALL.

Him duplicating could work, but would that actualy duplicate the one where his abstract form has been forced to reside in, effectively making more of that non corporeal existence?

 

[SauceSorcery]

Well, it's law based duplication where all duplicates are EXACT copies, and duplicating something does not exempt properties in any cases in the game, except when it is made specifically conditional via ON, FACING, NEAR, etc. But that's also because the properties themselves are law based and are being applied to all instances of that copied object.

Baba has had to deal with innate properties before. For instance, text (the laws themselves) has inherent properties that aren't enforced by an apparent law in the level, but he is able to law manipulate even the innate properties of the text itself. ie: Text is inherently push even though there is no text saying that it is, but he can manipulate this by forming text is not push, thus switching off its innate property.

If the "making Baba take physical form" can be translated to a law or law manipulated, then it should work, at least in the sense that if he makes his physical vessel self replicate, Baba can determine which vessel carries his essence so to speak, if not making them all carry it.

Are the effects/aftermaths of D's powers (when separated from D himself) also resistant to law manipulation?

 

[ShivaShakti]

Well, it's law based duplication where all duplicates are EXACT copies, and duplicating something does not exempt properties in any cases in the game, except when it is made specifically conditional via ON, FACING, NEAR, etc. But that's also because the properties themselves are law based and are being applied to all instances of that copied object.
Baba has had to deal with innate properties before. For instance, text (the laws themselves) has inherent properties that aren't enforced by an apparent law in the level, but he is able to law manipulate even the innate properties of the text itself. ie: Text is inherently push even though there is no text saying that it is, but he can manipulate this by forming text is not push, thus switching off its innate property.

If the "making Baba take physical form" can be translated to a law or law manipulated, then it should work, at least in the sense that if he makes his physical vessel self replicate, Baba can determine which vessel carries his essence so to speak, if not making them all carry it.

Are the effects of D's powers (when separated from D himself) also resistant to law manipulation?

Its more like D himself has resistance to law based shenanigans rather than his powers being able to bypass law hax.

 

[SauceSorcery]

In that case, I think it's plausible (but not guaranteed) that Baba could duplicate a physical manifestation of his abstract self since he can do a number of unusual things of similar caliber, such as manipulating properties that aren't associated with laws, giving properties to emptiness itself as if it were an object while not turning it into an object and being able to duplicate anything without restriction on what he can or can't duplicate, maintaining all properties in the process and having the duplicated objects be completely indistinguishable from each other.

If he can't duplicate his vessel, he can at least turn it into emptiness and make emptiness his vessel.

 

[PlozAlcachaz]

Incon FRA

 

[ShivaShakti]

Hmmm. Really hard to form a winning opinion for either of them tbh.

Incon FRA

 

[SauceSorcery]

Besides, making his abstract self take physical form is basically transmutation, it's the second thing Baba encounters in his adventure.

So the match will go: Baba has a bunch of passives pre-created to passively create bodies to possess, to destroy/possess/transmute everything that isn't his bodies and to reinforce the laws in every way possible. Since he doesn't have a word for his opponent, he'll blanket it with NOT and ALL, making it highly likely that he'll target his own physical manifestation by coincidence of also not having a word for that either, unless it shares a name with Baba then it's even more likely to be safe guarded.

Match starts, D resists possible law based transmutation/erasure/void hax/sleep hax/possession and indirect erasure through SINK. D's bicurious aura makes Baba's mind halt from the immense swooning, but his laws apply passively as long as they're formed and can manipulate themselves using various mechanisms.

D forces Baba's mind to take physical form in an attempt to stab it, but this physical vessel starts getting duplicated to heck and back, if not transformed into something else by Baba's earlier blanket rules, passively without Baba's input.

The rules still persist and can duplicate themselves if D can ever do anything to them through TEXT IS MORE.

... Then incon...

I vote incon.

 

[Mister6ame6]

I charge my vote to incon FRA

 

[Milly_Rocking_Bandit]

Incon FRA.

 

[Bobsican]

Grace!

 

[ABoogieYesSir]

Stalemato FRA

 

[ShivaShakti]

Can this be added?

 

[Bobsican]

Of course.

 

[ShivaShakti]

Of course.

Aight i'll go ahead and add the match to D's profile.

If someone else could add Baba's match too that'd be great