Cyborg VS Dragon (7/1/0)

[AnAverageUsername]

His resistance to stuff like flashbangs, bombs, electricity and etc aren't immunities, they still slow him down and can give Jensen the openings he needs to end the fight by piercing him with his blades or other weaponry.

They aren't immunities, but thanks to the various upgrades Kiryu gets throughout the series, He can get up fast and recover from them. The pure experience he's had over the years helps him negate some of the advantages that Jensen has.

Just because he can interact with ghosts doesn't mean he'll be able to see Jensen when he goes invisible.

It's more so about Kiryu being able to sense these ghosts, though that still needs some debates. But if we go for it, sensing these souls would help him sense an invisible foe yeah?

Plus he can always knock down Kiryu to his feet with his peps augs that causes heavy metal crates and big augmented people to lie flat down on their asses.

Kiryu when knocked down by strong attacks can get up instantly and even strike back, and this isn't talking about how it gets harder to knock down Kiryu when he has heat, or how it's actually impossible to knock him down when he enters Extreme Heat Mode. This shouldn't exactly be a problem for the Dragon of Dojima.

The nanoblades can be used not just by melee but also as projectiles that explodes which will definitely cause problems for Kiryu when trying to close gap between him and Adam.

Projectiles that explode are, again, something that Kiryu faces annually when he's forced to go up against the Amons. He has experience dealing with this stuff.

Adam has the superior hit and run tactics here with his arsenal, brains, and abilities.

Hit and Run tactics aren't going to work when Adam can't escape. Kiryu has gone through multiple training sessions with people like Mack to chaise down and tackle people who run. And with Dragon Spirit he just sorta zips over to Adam.

 

[Not_Icarus]

Oh I forgot to highlight in Jensen's page and for this fight that Jensen has the Icarus Dash that he can use even when using the Focus Enhancement aug. The dash lets him go even faster, especially when using the focus enhancement speedboost. Jensen has 2 speed boosts (although 1 is not constant and is more direction based) at his disposal now which will make it very difficult for Kiryu to tag him given their on par speed. So Adam does have the potential to escape him. And I don't think Kiryu has a way around invisibility aside from getting lucky with his instincts imo. It doesn't matter that Kiryu can get back up quickly, Jensen's speed is fast enough for him to pull the trigger the moment he gets down on the floor given he's a quickdraw with his augs and guns. Extreme Heat mode can actually be knocked down, he gets staggered even while boosted in 6. The explosions will still be a problem for Kiryu because he still has to go through a lot of them and they always force Kiryu to run or get knocked down in cutscenes.

 

[Not_Icarus]

Plus they're not always going to be running at full speed given their greatest speeds requires extra energy to achieve which helps Jensen more when they run out of energy and need to replenish themselves with energy items.

 

[AnAverageUsername]

Oh I forgot to highlight in Jensen's page and for this fight that Jensen has the Icarus Dash that he can use even when using the Focus Enhancement aug. The dash lets him go even faster, especially when using the focus enhancement speedboost. Jensen has 2 speed boosts (although 1 is not constant and is more direction based) at his disposal now which will make it very difficult for Kiryu to tag him given their on par speed. So Adam does have the potential to escape him.

The potential, but Kiryu has chased down Mack before, who has ran among gazelle's and even outran lions. He should have the stamina to keep up, considering this is the dude who fought 100 tojo clan yakuza at one, and had fought through Dojima Family troupes when he was 20.

Plus they're not always going to be running at full speed given their greatest speeds requires extra energy to achieve which helps Jensen more when they run out of energy and need to replenish themselves with energy items.

Speaking of when he was 20, specifically Yakuza 0, Kiryu basically has limitless stamina when running thanks to investing in himself. Now if you wanna say that doesn't count thats fine, but even if Kiryu gets low on stamina from running he can always chug a tauriner and staminan, it doesn't take long to do so. Which means he will constantly be replenished and up for the run.

And I don't think Kiryu has a way around invisibility aside from getting lucky with his instincts imo. It doesn't matter that Kiryu can get back up quickly, Jensen's speed is fast enough for him to pull the trigger the moment he gets down on the floor given he's a quickdraw with his augs and guns.

He may not, but he should be able to guess where Jensen could be? Maybe Klol has something on this. And it's not that Kiryu can get up "just" quickly, it's basically instantly where he flips. He won't be on the ground since he'll be back up before he hits the ground.

Extreme Heat mode can actually be knocked down, he gets staggered even while boosted in 6. The explosions will still be a problem for Kiryu because he still has to go through a lot of them and they always force Kiryu to run or get knocked down in cutscenes.

From what I remember in Kiwami 2, Kiryu never got knocked down. Not that it matters if he does though, he can instantly get back up and even retaliate with counter attacks. And going through them won't be a problem, especially when the environment is a lot more open than the room he fought Amon in 6.

 

[Not_Icarus]

I think it's because he got older in 6 or something is maybe why gets knocked down due to his age. And speaking of age I should probably clarify that the Kiryu we're using here is Yakuza 7 Kiryu to make it less confusing for all of us. His counter attack hit from getting knocked down won't work when he gets a blade straight to the stomach or his limbs getting sliced off tbh. Jensen also has rapid energy healing like tauriners via his biocells.

 

[AnAverageUsername]

I think it's because got older in 6 or something is maybe why gets knocked down due to his age. And speaking of age I should probably clarify that the Kiryu we're using here is Yakuza 7 Kiryu to make it less confusing for all of us.

Ah, yeah, that makes sense. Best to clear that up since he's appeared in soon to be 10 games soon (Yakuza gaiden and 8 hype)/

His counter attack hit from getting knocked down won't work when he gets a blade straight to the stomach or his limbs getting sliced off tbh.

This should actually help him more here. Kiryu in Yakuza 7 can freely switch between his styles again, meaning he can access Rush which leaves behind many afterimages when he dashes around, I think. So he should have an easier time dodging these attacks now.

Jensen also has rapid energy healing like tauriners via his biocells.

So does it replenish his stamina only? Tauriners replenish heat, which is basically stamina. Toughness drinks replenish health, and Staminans do both.

 

[Not_Icarus]

Same health and energy system as Kiryu basically. Wish I had money for the 2 new Yakuza games lol. Afterimages gets negged as Jensen also does afterimages. Only difference is that Adam doesn't have a staminan variant and uses health and energy packs separately instead (Basically he only has tougness zs and tauriners aside from his other healing items that does the same thing). Also I don't believe heat and energy is the same as stamina for the 2 ngl. Given they still function fine when they have 0 heat and energy. It's more like their mana bar that lets them do special techniques and stuff more than anything. Big bonus is that Jensen can replenish his energy while using his augs at the same time while Kiryu can't replenish extreme heat mode while using it.

 

[AnAverageUsername]

Same health and energy system as Kiryu basically. Wish I had money for the 2 new Yakuza games lol. Afterimages gets negged as Jensen also does afterimages. Only difference is that Adam doesn't have a staminan variant and uses health and energy packs separately instead (Basically he only has tougness zs and tauriners aside from his other healing items that does the same thing). Also I don't believe heat and energy is the same as stamina for the 2 ngl. Given they still function fine when they have 0 heat and energy. It's more like their mana bar that lets them do special techniques and stuff more than anything. Big bonus is that Jensen can replenish his energy while using his augs at the same time while Kiryu can't replenish extreme heat mode while using it.

Well the drinks are usually referred to as "energy drinks", it's why they're available to buy at drug stores in game. It's also mentioned by npcs I believe, that it restores energy.

Anyways it's nearly 4, I'll sleep to see whats new

 

[Not_Icarus]

One of the tactics Jensen can use against Kiryu to slow him down and get the kill here is aside from an electric blast, he can throw a stun grenade Infront of Kiryu and then shoot it mid air to instantly get the jump on Kiryu. This allows him to quickly dash in or shoot from a distance to get the win by hitting vital organs or his head. Adam is capable of ending fights quickly with his tactical intellect of the surroundings and people he fights. His assault rifle can automatically track targets' movement too even when Adam isn't directly aiming at them.

 

[Armorchompy]

Kiryu absolutely owns Adam in close quarters but I feel like if the latter plays it smart it will literally never come to that, he's got plenty of options but honestly just opening fire with some automatic rifle is enough, Kiryu can't really dodge that indefinitely. The sizable speed gap seals the deal. I can maybe see Kiryu winning if they start up close?

 

[Tomfer]

Even if they start up close, couldn't Jensen wide the distance with speed amps and shoot him?

 

[Not_Icarus]

10 meters away sounds good enough for either to close up the distance or get away from each other imo. And yeah Adam can do that too. Who are you 2 voting for anyways?

 

[Tomfer]

10 meters is enough for Adam to use his speed amp and kite Kiryu with a rifle

 

[Not_Icarus]

5 meters then. Any lower seems a little too unfair for Adam imo.

 

[Tomfer]

I think 10 meters was fair tho, lmao

 

[Not_Icarus]

So should I use 5 or 10 then lol

 

[Tomfer]

Let's stick with 10 meters, changing frequently rules of the match can be seen as scummy for some.

 

[Not_Icarus]

I prefer 10 anyways so sure

 

[Not_Icarus]

With that out of the way, who do you guys vote for?

 

[Tomfer]

The discussion will, basically, be: Can Kiryu close the gap with his speed amps? If yes, he wins with close quarters combat. If not, Adam wins with better long range weapons.

I'm leaning on Adam since I don't see Kiryu dodging a rifle and, by profile alone, Adam's speed amps seem better.

 

[Not_Icarus]

Vote counted then. Jensen also has the acrobatics advantage over Kazuma given his long jumps, acrobatic skills and spammable dashes that lets him go in any direction even while mid-air which makes his movement very slippery for Kazuma to get close to.

 

[Shmooply]

777 VIEWS BABY

 

[AnAverageUsername]

I would like to bring up the fact that the speed advantage Jensen has isnt much of an advantage in the beginning, its less than twice Kiryu's. And with his own speed amps he should be able to keep up with Jensen as discussed earlier. But those speed amps Kiryu has also boost his AP and Durability to extreme levels to the point where I don't think Jensen's going to hurt him well at all outside his swords, and Kiryu would seriously damage Jensen with only a few attacks.

 

[Tomfer]

Against someone who can create short yet rapid distance with dashes, jump extremely high and overhall more acrobatic? Kiryu could easily break the distance if both were in a small corridor, but that's it. The moment Kiryu eventually approaches Adam, he can just dash backwards, jump extremely high and then dash backwards. (Or to the sides, Tekken style)

But you really think that weaponry such as a plasma rifle that can vaporize armored individuals cannot harm Kiryu not even a little? That's seem a bit hyperbolic than anything.

 

[AnAverageUsername]

Again, Kiryu can also cover those dashes with his own, whether its with Rush style or with Dragon Spirit, and he's faced opponents more acrobatic than himself like with Majima on numerous occasions. The jumping part is hard to judge, but would it really be hard to alter the location so that both fighters can prosper?

Not sure on the weapons part. This would be a lot more fun if Kiryu had a Dead Soul's profile, with his own weaponry.

 

[Tomfer]

but would it really be hard to alter the location so that both fighters can prosper?

Tbf, no location was mentioned, I was assuming it was a plain field with nothing to stop the two.

like with Majima on numerous occasions.

I went to Majima's profile to see his level, but I mostly see acrobatics being used for fancy moves, not to close any distance gaps; with the exception of the wall running one. (And shouldn't that give Majima danmaku? With those electric knifes)

 

[AnAverageUsername]

Tbf, no location was mentioned, I was assuming it was a plain field with nothing to stop the two.

I think the SBA location is Manhattan

I went to Majima's profile to see his level, but I mostly see acrobatics being used for fancy moves, not to close any distance gaps; with the exception of the wall running one.

Yeah, I've never played a Deus Ex game, so the level of acrobatics that Jensen has is unknown to me. What exactly does he do?

(And shouldn't that give Majima danmaku? With those electric knifes)

Maybe?

 

[Tomfer]

Yeah, I've never played a Deus Ex game, so the level of acrobatics that Jensen has is unknown to me. What exactly does he do?

It's pretty standard superhuman stuff like increased leg strength and stability, capable of jumping up to three meters to climb walls and stuff and be completely silenced while doing so. And the dashes like Icarus said before.

I think the SBA location is Manhattan

It's worse. It's New York.

Now knowing its a city, Jensen could just climb a small building like a house or a wall and shoot Kiryu from above, right?

 

[AnAverageUsername]

It's pretty standard superhuman stuff like increased leg strength and stability, capable of jumping up to three meters to climb walls and stuff and be completely silenced while doing so. And the dashes like Icarus said before.

Ah, neat. I wouldn't say it's that bad, he just jumps higher, which would be more difficult than usual, just not impossible.

It's worse. It's New York.

Now knowing its a city, Jensen could just climb a small building like a house or a wall and shoot Kiryu from above, right?

Yeah, which is why an area like Kamurocho, a place Kiryu knows like it's the back of his hand, would be a better place because at least then he could have options of also getting up to rooftops. Maybe the location would be better in the Millenium Tower?

 

[Armorchompy]

For the record, I am of the opinion that Jensen wins, Kiryu has literally no counter to him just running back while spray 'n' praying automating gunfire, even if he does manage to catch up it's not like he'll be able to win off just one interaction.

 

[Not_Icarus]

Vote counted

 

[Not_Icarus]

I don't think even making the fight take place in Kamurocho would help here much tbh. Jensen still has plenty of options there to climb and stick to walls. The fight taking place in the Millennium Tower also won't change much as Adam is an expert in fighting within buildings and hiding to push the fight to his favor. He can always just break open walls or doors to force the fight somewhere else.

 

[AnAverageUsername]

Maybe give Kiryu a golden gun or something, if that's possible

Again, a Dead Souls profile would make this match more fun in a shootout

 

[Not_Icarus]

I did say that both are allowed their equipment which means that Kiryu also has his equipment available lol. Kiryu has guns and melee weapons of his own. Likely worse than Adam's though.

 

[AnAverageUsername]

I did say that both are allowed their equipment which means that Kiryu also has his equipment available lol. Kiryu has guns and melee weapons of his own. Likely worse than Adam's though.

Oh, neat, we've just been talking about Hands this whole time lol

Well a benefit of a golden gun is that it has infinite ammo and is one of Kiryu's more powerful weapons, I guess

 

[Not_Icarus]

Pretty strong sure but Adam still has the consistency advantage over Kiryu with his auto aim and skill so I still lean with him more. The infinite ammo part isn't really a problem since Adam can bring boat loads of ammo within his inventory plus both has speed and durability boosts to lower the damage they take. So Adam can still get more dubs over Kiryu in gunfights, especially with his better experience in guns given his line of work.

 

[AnAverageUsername]

Pretty strong sure but Adam still has the consistency advantage over Kiryu with his auto aim and skill so I still lean with him more. The infinite ammo part isn't really a problem since Adam can bring boat loads of ammo within his inventory plus both has speed and durability boosts to lower the damage they take. So Adam can still get more dubs over Kiryu in gunfights, especially with his better experience in guns given his line of work.

Yeah I'm just saying that Kiryu shouldn't have to be worrying about reloads if that's a plus

 

[Tomfer]

That seems to be the only real advantage of Kiryu in a gun fight, does he have any good feat with weaponry? Otherwise, Jensen's experience and better weaponry decides this fight.

 

[AnAverageUsername]

That seems to be the only real advantage of Kiryu in a gun fight, does he have any good feat with weaponry? Otherwise, Jensen's experience and better weaponry decides this fight.

Stuff like Beast Style allows Kiryu to use any item he can interact with in the vicinity as a weapon, and Kiryu often incorporates objects into his own fighting style, but he mainly keeps to hand to hand.

 

[Tomfer]

Stuff like Beast Style allows Kiryu to use any item he can interact with in the vicinity as a weapon

With his golden gun, that seems just unnecessary. I doubt he'd find anything better in NY, lmao.

Kiryu often incorporates objects into his own fighting style, but he mainly keeps to hand to hand.

That's the thing though, if he keeps with hand to hand, Adam just uses his acrobatics to get a better viewpoint and kill him from afar; if he uses his gun, he doesn't compare against Adam and loses his main advantage, hand to hand. It seems a loss-loss situation.

How does he incorporate the golden gun with his fighting style?