Adam Jensen Vs The Courier (Deus Ex Vs Fallout)

[Apophis81]

Adam Jensen Vs The Courier

Equipment: Both Full Equipment
Location: Destroyed New York
Distance: 300 Meters
Win Conditions: Death or incapacitation

Who wins and why?

Adam Jensen: 0
The Courier: 2

 

[SpiteBattles]

Assuming they’re starting off talking… Luck + Fear manip + busted Social Influencing ggs

If not, Courier pulls out his best 9-A weapon, VATS, than gg.

 

[Apophis81]

Assuming they’re starting off talking… Luck + Fear manip + busted Social Influencing ggs

If not, Courier pulls out his best 9-A weapon, VATS, than gg.

Don't think SBA allows them to start by talking

Don't they have relatively similar stats tho?

 

[Apophis81]

Bump

 

[XSOULOFCINDERX]

Don't think SBA allows them to start by talking

Why wouldn't it? If they're starting from so far away then that gives the Courier plenty of time to start talking and Adam wouldn't be even remotely close to the most difficult person he's ever talked down before.

Don't they have relatively similar stats tho?

Adam has nothing in his kit that will allow him to survive any of the Courier's energy weapons, all of which are capable of vaporizing or goo-ifying people, animals and robots in seconds. Not to mention the Courier's laser weapons fire at lightspeed so Adam can't avoid them either, especially if they use V.A.T.S. to get faster.

 

[Apophis81]

Why wouldn't it? If they're starting from so far away then that gives the Courier plenty of time to start talking and Adam wouldn't be even remotely close to the most difficult person he's ever talked down before.

Doesn't SBA make them automatically seen as enemies, does the Courier just start talking to people sees as a threat?

What about Jensen's invisibility and ability to see through walls? Couldn't that help him escape the direct head on situation?

 

[XSOULOFCINDERX]

Doesn't SBA make them automatically seen as enemies, does the Courier just start talking to people sees as a threat?

Ulysses and Legate Lanius say yes.

What about Jensen's invisibility and ability to see through walls? Couldn't that help him escape the direct head on situation?

The Courier has fought through an entire compound of Nightkin, an off-shoot of Super Mutants known specifically for turning invisible so that isn't helping, especially when Stealth Boys seem to last noticeably longer than Jensen's Invisibility. Seeing through walls is pretty helpful but the Courier's Pip-Boy allows for something slightly similar with a combination of V.A.T.S. which can target someone as long as even a small portion of them is visible and their compass which tick marks every nearby enemy and tracks them, even if they're literally invisible.

 

[Apophis81]

Bump

 

[Not_Icarus]

Adam's borderline 8-C and faster than before now and has some new abilities like his blades doing dura neg now.

 

[Keeweed]

The courier is boardline 9-A+ last I checked. So the ap isn’t that bad, but vats is completely useless now. So it just comes down to whether the courier can get to chat or frightened Adam. Plus the courier’s luck can just have a security system just entirely give up and walk away so that could have Adam just straight walk away here.

 

[Not_Icarus]

I vote Adam for superior physicals and mobility, more reliable futuristic weaponry via auto aim and blasting through walls with his laser cannons and more, dura neg and tricks like chucking a flashbang straight to his face and making it explode by shooting it, peps aug that knocks down even large heavily augmented men and then ending his ass with a quickdraw shot like with his duraneg blades that can also be used as projectiles.

Plus Jensen is a master at playing the hide and seek game by constantly moving around the environment. Even if his stealth isn't good enough to get around the courier. The Courier can never escape Jensen as he has information analysis and enhanced senses that goes through even walls. He also can always make new pathways by simply punching his way through walls.

 

[Keeweed]

The courier has dealt with flash bangs before and he has superior senses to blind death claws which can track you from a mile or so away through sheer sound. So assuming he is blinded he’ll still be able to fight effectively. Plus the fight takes place in New York park by standard battle assumptions, what walls would there be to hide behind and shoot through (and with the op location that still causes into questions how many walls there would be since New York park could still be the particular starting zone).

The courier is also very good at quick draws but Adam does have the ap advantage. Though it can’t really go both ways. If they are far away behind multiple walls Adam can’t quick draw him, and if they are close by the courier can literally smile at Adam and, since he doesn’t resist fear manipulation, he’ll immediately just run away. If they are far away then the courier could sneak up on him. The stealth suit can sneak by the most advanced tracking systems in fallout and the courier himself can already sneak around in broad daylight. So it’s not the matter of just being able to see where he is that’ll have you get past the stealth. This also includes the optic systems of multiple armors and machines in the fallout world.

 

[Keeweed]

Though, I’ll probably vote inconclusive myself. I don’t think Adam had the ap advantage to really just obliterate the courier, especially with the courier’s pretty insane endurance. He’s one of those characters you pretty much need to shoot straight in the brain or heart to really stop, but Adam is definitely likely to always be going for head shots. And his ap advantage and ability to just obliterate everything around him are good advantages. Though the courier’s luck could have Adam just walk away or have the weapons needed for important strategies just break. The courier also has superior luck (10 versus a 2 given to everyone else) than the fallout 2’s protagonist which can just have people continuously fail to do anything at all until they just die. So there are a ton of variables at play and due to the location the courier can’t just give him the creepy smirk immediately. So it really just all comes down to who can get where and why. And with the courier’s luck in play these two are pretty much just rag dolls in the wind.

 

[Not_Icarus]

My vote still stands.

Although Adam ain't defenseless against invisible people though as he has experience fighting them and his augs lets him see right through them. Plus super vision isn't his only way of keeping check on the courier. His tagging system allows him to keep dozens of targets all at once be constantly monitored by his hud at all times.

His intimidation isn't always a surefire thing to work as if that was the case everyone would never even lift a finger against the courier and it usually just requires him to talk and convince people first before they get intimidated by him.

Even if we equalize speed here there's nothing stopping Adam from getting the drop on him first as his speed boosts will always put him on top of the Courier's reaction speeds and if a match up cannot be added if the slower opponent has speed as a big reason for winning against a naturally faster character.

 

[Keeweed]

It’s not invisibility that I was talking about, I mean the courier without invisibility is just incredibly hard to detect already. The same stealth that has gotten past machines specifically designed to look for objects designed to sneak past other sensors.

The courier’s intimidation has been done with a smile and that’s what I think is important. It’s not like the smile has failed and he needed to do more. Plus nothing stops him from doing the smile while saying things. The courier can make a group of people that could instantly kill him and tank most of his attacks just immediately give up and whimper away. It should be effective enough to stop a guy with zero resistances.

 

[Not_Icarus]

Adam's a pretty no nonsense type of a guy so I think the chances of him simply aiming to kill here are more likely than the 2 simply going out to have a chat first given this is a serious fight. And hey now the Courier could be wearing a helmet here first lol

Plus that won't matter when Adam is just much faster than him so his stealth and intimidation is null when he can't even pull them off first.

 

[Keeweed]

It’s not the courier needs to chat with him (ignoring that many characters in fallout are also like that and the courier can chat with them and much worse. Let me get the Ulysses thing I wrote up earlier.), the courier can just smile at him. The courier also did the fear with gestures too.

 

[Keeweed]

I think straight up nuking a guys home and killing everyone he knew and loved would be a pretty good way to get someone to hate you. The courier made this guy his friend in like 30 seconds. Plus the courier’s luck, pure luck it is completely unrelated to the charisma stats, can have a security system just up and walk away from you. The courier won’t even need to convince Adam if that happens.
https://vsbattles.com/threads/the-c...fe-courier-vs-frisk-1-1-0.146716/post-5585503

 

[Not_Icarus]

Again, speed is still superior to those. The Courier is a literal snail compared to him.

 

[Keeweed]

I mean, the speed increase seems to be completely unqualifiable. But that brings into the fact if we are really generous with that (to say it should absolutely blitz) then I’m going to be generous with the courier’s luck and point out that it can have weapons break and people just continuously fail to do anything. Even to the point they get themselves killed if the courier’s luck scales to previous games (which I think it should it’s the same series). Though that’s assuming they start next to each other. In the op they don’t so the courier gets a large chance to sneak up to Adam and gets tons of chances for his luck to continuously effect Adam.

 

[Not_Icarus]

Transonic VS Hypersonic+ plus boosts

 

[Keeweed]

Is speed still not equalized? I was assuming it was, and obviously it should be now due to the upgrade. Because yeah if it hypersonic of course he would purely just hit the blitz.

 

[Not_Icarus]

Unequalized yeah

 

[Keeweed]

Then I’ll just wait til it gets equalized, I can see now how this conversation would be super confusing when one side was viewing that as a thing and the other one was basing it off the exact opposite.

 

[Not_Icarus]

And oh yeah I just got fear resistance approved for Jensen by looking at some deus ex 1 stuff so that even things out more for if this fight gets speed equalized

 

[Keeweed]

Honestly, I’m kinda surprised they didn’t have resistance to that already.

 

[Not_Icarus]

Armorchompy says that the resistance applies more only to the mechs rather than to the nanoaugs like JC and Alex because it's literally built into the mech augs.

 

[Keeweed]

Ooh, I knew it would have to do with cybernetics, but I guess I’ll wait and see if Adam and them get it or not then.

 

[Not_Icarus]

He got it already, I literally just talked to Armor about it awhile ago lol

 

[Keeweed]

Ah, important to note, that possible abilities can be restricted (and I find it weird they scale since it’s specifically a mech thing). But let’s see how the op changes later, if it does. Feels like a match that needs to be remade with how drastically Adam has just changed.

 

[Not_Icarus]

Of course

 

[Not_Icarus]

It's not really weird tbh. Having your fears and pains be rerouted during combat for more efficiency is very in character for augmentations to do in the deus ex world. Besides Alex, Walton and JC aren't getting it as Adam is the only mech aug page we have in the wiki.

 

[Keeweed]

Ah, thanks for explaining that. I won’t find it weird to be in the verse, it’s just in particular it was stated to be an attachment to mechs for mechs that makes it kinda strange to me. But it being a possibly is fine.