Cyborg VS Dragon (7/1/0)

[Not_Icarus]

Adam Jensen VS Kazuma Kiryu (Yakuza 7 Version)

Speed is not equalized, 10 meters away from each other and both are allowed to use their equipment

Adam Jensen is roughly 0.23 tons and Kiryu is around 0.34 tons

Adam Jensen: 7 (Shmooply, Tomfer, Armorchoppy, DemonicDude, Sir_sun_man, AnAverageUsername, Not Icarus)

Kazuma Kiryu: 1 (KLOL506)

Inconclusive:

 

[Shmooply]

It ain't even been an hour.

Kiryu's advantages are that he absolutely annihilates Jensen in close-quarters, ontop of him having a slight AP advantage and maybe better survivability with his equipment. Jensen absolutely takes this fight with ease though, since Kiryu isn't that good at fighting gun-wielding opponents in the first place, and Jensen's a far better shot with guns than someone like Lao Gui, ontop of the other broken sci-fi tech that Jensen has.

 

[Not_Icarus]

I like both characters a lot and played most games from both of their series' so I wanted pit these 2 against each other now that their tiers are fairly close enough to me imo lol. So you're voting for Jensen?

 

[Shmooply]

Yeah.

 

[Not_Icarus]

Vote counted

 

[AnAverageUsername]

You should get Klol here, but I will say that Kiryu absolutely has experience with guys with guns, dude tangles with the Amons every other year he isn't in prison or in hiding

 

[AnAverageUsername]

Like, look at these fights

 

[Shmooply]

You just sent me, like, 48 minutes worth of fights. Just show me the parts where they use guns and are better at wielding them than Jensen.

 

[AnAverageUsername]

You just sent me, like, 48 minutes worth of fights. Just show me the parts where they use guns and are better at wielding them than Jensen.

1st Video: 3:10 to 4:10 for Jiro Amon, 4:55 to 6:55 for Sango Amon
2nd Video: Just watch the whole video, Jo Amon switches between guns and hammers throughout it, but there are giant beams Kiryu has to look out for such as at 4:33
3rd Video: Again, watch the whole video, Jo uses floating levitating umbrellas to attack, thats some sci-fi shit if I've ever seen any
4th Video: The whole thing again Kiryu has to fight in a room with drones and Roombas, you can just click through it to see
5th Video: The first part of the fight, So Amon is using a canon against Kiryu

What's so impressive about these fights is that these are all Amon clan members, world class assassins, with Amon himself having fought many enemies all over the world. Let's not forget Kiryu himself, the man can stop both blades and bullets just by blocking due to Dragon God's Ward. Dragon Spirit and Extreme Heat Mode can make him withstand previous attacks that could one shot him, and techniques like the Komaki Shot Stopper allows him to counter anyone with a gun.

 

[AnAverageUsername]

Also I recently went through Yakuza 3, I'm pretty sure Kiryu can just run through bullets with heat from what I remember, which can be filled instantly with a taunt

 

[Not_Icarus]

Richardson boss fight is Kiryu's biggest feat of defeating a gun user ngl. Also Jensen isn't helpless in melee against Kiryu imo. He has great martial arts himself and his augs would make his fighting style fairly unpredictable for Kiryu and his nanoblades has duraneg which is great if he hits Kiryu with them.

 

[AnAverageUsername]

Richardson boss fight is Kiryu's biggest feat of defeating a gun user ngl.

Oh yeah, I forgot about funny CIA man. Him and the entire CIA platoon he fought as well.

Also Jensen isn't helpless in melee against Kiryu imo. He has great martial arts himself and his augs would make his fighting style fairly unpredictable for Kiryu

Kiryu, the same guy that can copy down styles from just seeing them

and his nanoblades has duraneg which is great if he hits Kiryu with them.

Komaki Swordless rebirth would counter this if its a full on sword he holds. Is it?

 

[Not_Icarus]

Kiryu can't copy his fighting style. They're literal robot arms that modify his arms' movements. They're not full on blades too as they're attached to his arms instead. Something like that guy from Kiwami 2 with the footblades but way better.

 

[Not_Icarus]

Plus Kiryu is slower here and even if he boosts his own speed to match Jensen, Jensen can still use his own speed boost to keep the advantage for his side.

 

[AnAverageUsername]

Kiryu can't copy his fighting style. They're literal robot arms that modify his arms' movements. They're not full on blades too as they're attached to his arms instead. Something like that guy from Kiwami 2 with the footblades but way better.

But that doesn't mean he shouldn't be able to understand it though, yeah? Sure he may not be able to copy it, but he should still be able to learn. Plus, Kiryu has been in fights where he hasn't seen how the opponent fights before and he still comes out on top.

Also, if that's the case with the swords then it shouldn't be too much of an issue to avoid them, and counter with moves like Tiger Drop.

 

[AnAverageUsername]

Plus Kiryu is slower here and even if he boosts his own speed to match Jensen, Jensen can still use his own speed boost to keep the advantage for his side.

You should very much equalize speed because this match becomes moot if not. Kiryu only has subsonic movement speed while Jensen has up to well over Hypersonic+ all around to SoL attack speed.

 

[Not_Icarus]

Speed equalized doesn't equalize movement speed so that won't really matter much if you wanna argue movement speed actually. Kiryu has a big AP advantage with his boosts. I think it's fair enough that speed isn't equalized imo.

 

[AnAverageUsername]

Speed equalized doesn't equalize movement speed so that won't really matter much if you wanna argue movement speed actually. Kiryu has a big AP advantage with his boosts. I think it's fair enough that speed isn't equalized imo.

Again, Jensen has SoL attack speed with his laser canon, which if that isn't telegraphed well its going to blitz. But as I read through the speed, Kiryu does have Hypersonic attack speed and reactions. Mach 9.9 to be exact. And Jensen is just a bit above Mach 13. Seeing these values, they aren't exactly far apart. Jenses can appear to slow down his own perception, but Kiryu can do the exact same thing with regular Heat, even more so with Dragon Spirit, and Dragon Spirit which lets him zip around from enemy to enemy. So I would say that Kiryu is even or might be superior depending on how slow Jensen can slow their perception.

 

[Not_Icarus]

This is what I mean by not equalizing speed. Kiryu while slower can still keep up with Jensen despite him being faster and Jensen can still keep up with Kiryu even with his boosts because Jensen has his own boost as well.

 

[AnAverageUsername]

This is what I mean by not equalizing speed. Kiryu while slower can still keep up with Jensen despite him being faster and Jensen can still keep up with Kiryu even with his boosts because Jensen has his own boost as well.

Yeah I see it. How big is this speed boost?

 

[Not_Icarus]

I tried to find an exact source from the games and deus ex wiki but apparently there's no exact statement for how much it boosts his speed. The wiki here apparently says 1.5x boost which basically makes him mach 20. From what I guess they scaled it off the gameplay to what seems to be slowing down the game by half speed visually. So that's the best we got.

 

[AnAverageUsername]

I tried to find an exact source from the games and deus ex wiki but apparently there's no exact statement for how much it boosts his speed. The wiki here apparently says 1.5x boost which basically makes him mach 20. From what I guess they scaled it off the gameplay to what seems to be slowing down the game by half speed visually. So that's the best we got.

Well while there's no number for Kiryu, Heat mode, again, also slows his perception and boosts his speed. And Dragon Spirit increases this, while Extreme Heat boosts his speed to the point he zips around from enemy to enemy. Would you say this is greater or on par?

 

[Not_Icarus]

Extreme Heat mode is simply evolved Dragon Spirit imo given that's his go to heat mode in later games. I'd say they're on par enough to be capable tagging and dodging each other.

 

[AnAverageUsername]

Extreme Heat mode is simply evolved Dragon Spirit imo given that's his go to heat mode in later games. I'd say they're on par enough to be capable tagging and dodging each other.

So, at that point, with near equal speed using their amps, and accounting for Kiryu's experience facing deadly and advanced world class assassins, CIA members lika Joji Kazama and Richardson, and other characters like Majima and Saejima, I would say Kiryu has the win here, especially since he can boost his already higher durability and strength to even higher extents with heat and heat actions, as well as being able to counter Jensen's attacks with komaki skills.

 

[KLOL506]

Kiryu can't copy his fighting style. They're literal robot arms that modify his arms' movements. They're not full on blades too as they're attached to his arms instead. Something like that guy from Kiwami 2 with the footblades but way better.

Shouldn't be a problem. He copies based on sight alone.

 

[AnAverageUsername]

Shouldn't be a problem. He copies based on sight alone.

I think the massage was more so referring to Jensen having janky arm movements that couldn't be copied because hes a cyborg or something.

 

[Not_Icarus]

That's basically what I meant awhile ago. Kiryu can't copy Adam's limbs because they're different in movement potential when compared to regular limbs. We got 1 vote for Kiryu now.

 

[KLOL506]

I think the massage was more so referring to Jensen having janky arm movements that couldn't be copied because hes a cyborg or something.

Doubt it'd be any different than the inanimate objects Kiryu copies to make his own moves, like backflipping scooters or car doors or what-have-you.

 

[Not_Icarus]

They're very different lol. Those heat actions and techniques are still based on normal human anatomy which Jensen does not have when he uses the more robotic elements of his arms.

 

[KLOL506]

Kiryu also doesn't have to mimic them 1:1, he can just keep sight of them and block their advance accordingly.

 

[Not_Icarus]

Also are you voting Kiryu KLOL or you still wanna elaborate more about the 2s' powers and equipment first before choosing a side to vote for?

 

[KLOL506]

Most likely Kiryu high-diff, yeah.

 

[Not_Icarus]

That's 2 votes for Kiryu now.

 

[Not_Icarus]

If only I wasn't the thread starter lol. I would have voted for Jensen via his hax like poison, electricity, bombs, dura neg and stuff like invisibility for my case.

 

[AnAverageUsername]

If only I wasn't the thread starter lol. I would have voted for Jensen via his hax like poison

resisted

, electricity,

how is this preformed, but he resists this anyways

bombs,

Dealt with many times

dura neg

How does this work

and stuff like invisibility for my case.

Kiryu can unironically sense the presence of souls

 

[Not_Icarus]

His poison is both via gas and darts and Kiryu has only resisted the latter and even then it's questionable as the poison knocks out even armored soldiers. Jensen's bombs are pretty dangerous too given he can literally spawn bombs from his own body and clear the area by doing a spin move. Jensen can shoot electricity from his own body that stuns even other big mechanically augmented people like him who resist electricity. The duraneg are his blades in which he only needs to hit him for it work. I don't think those ghosts even tried to hide from Kiryu given they were rumored to haunt and fight people at the cementary. They kept showing their faces to Kiryu because he was a worthy opponent for them to keep fighting so they can rest in peace. They're normally invisible to Kiryu and to everyone else and it was the ghosts who revealed their presence first to Kiryu every single time and not the other way around.

 

[Not_Icarus]

Plus he has flashbangs that can blind with light and stun him with sound. Multiple types of mines and grenades too that do most of his status effect inducement powers,

 

[AnAverageUsername]

Plus he has flashbangs that can blind with light and stun him with sound.

Daily occurrence in late game fights

Multiple types of mines and grenades too that do most of his status effect inducement powers,

This is just Yakuza 6's Amon fight

His poison is both via gas and darts and Kiryu has only resisted the latter and even then it's questionable as the poison knocks out even armored soldiers.

The poison Kiryu took was deadly, I think that's a step above knocking out

Jensen's bombs are pretty dangerous too given he can literally spawn bombs from his own body and clear the area by doing a spin move.

Yakuza 3 Amon fight

Jensen can shoot electricity from his own body that stuns even other big mechanically augmented people like him who resist electricity.

Kiryu went through the shockwave tournament where shocks are common, so eh

The duraneg are his blades in which he only needs to hit him for it work.

Which if its up close, Kiryu is going to outskill. He has fought a number of enemies that use bladed weapons.

I don't think those ghosts even tried to hide from Kiryu given they were rumored to haunt and fight people at the cementary. They kept showing their faces to Kiryu because he was a worthy opponent for them to keep fighting so they can rest in peace. They're normally invisible to Kiryu and to everyone else and it was the ghosts who revealed their presence first to Kiryu every single time and not the other way around.

I'm going to let Klol add onto this

 

[KLOL506]

I don't think those ghosts even tried to hide from Kiryu given they were rumored to haunt and fight people at the cementary. They kept showing their faces to Kiryu because he was a worthy opponent for them to keep fighting so they can rest in peace. They're normally invisible to Kiryu and to everyone else and it was the ghosts who revealed their presence first to Kiryu every single time and not the other way around.

That is prolly a good point, but do note he was the only one to be able to ever properly interact with them in the first place.

 

[Not_Icarus]

His resistance to stuff like flashbangs, bombs, electricity and etc aren't immunities, they still slow him down and can give Jensen the openings he needs to end the fight by piercing him with his blades or other weaponry. Just because he can interact with ghosts doesn't mean he'll be able to see Jensen when he goes invisible. Plus he can always knock down Kiryu to his feet with his peps augs that causes heavy metal crates and big augmented people to lie flat down on their asses. The nanoblades can be used not just by melee but also as projectiles that explodes which will definitely cause problems for Kiryu when trying to close gap between him and Adam. Adam has the superior hit and run tactics here with his arsenal, brains, and abilities.