Crration trio downgrade but this time, with proof.

[Shugon135]

Look, all I'm saying is that arceuss entry shouldn't be a species page or composite page, there are multiple arceuss with different feats, just like how the reflection cave works, there might be an infinite number of arceus's. Each that may have done something different.

 

[Shugon135]

ORAS isn't non-canon. It's just a separate timeline from the Gen 3 games due to XY.

I meant to say separate canon, and you are correct.

 

[Shugon135]

It's just like how dragon balls timeline works if you think about it hard enough.

 

[PlozAlcachaz]

This post should honestly still be closed. It brings nothing new as all of the topics have been discussed.

The OP's argument for three timelines is debunked by the canonicity blog we have set up. Additionally, Palkia and Dialga have been decided to only have one true version of each given how the Original Story goes.

Pokemon's canon

vsbattles.fandom.com

The OP flat-out admits it uses a non-canon spinoff to try to justify a downgrade.

After being called out on these being wrong, he decides to filibuster by bringing up other arguments when realizing the entire OP points are incorrect like saying they're actually only limited to one universe.

This seems like it is being done by someone who doesn't know how we treat the profiles and is trying to come up with any reason to downgrade Pokemon.

We should close this until they have an actual solid OP and are willing to stand by these points. This is honestly no better than their last post where they tried claiming Arceus wasn't multiversal because he didn't bust the multiverse on-screen.

 

[PlozAlcachaz]

Couldn't it also be said he aided with the help of the creation trios domains like arceus's?

There is no evidence for that.

 

[Shugon135]

Here's a better example. Remeber when dialga sent ash and the gang back in time during the movies? Well when they succeeded the changes started happening and arceuss memory's were altered.

Don't know if it was a bad example since it came from jewel of life but whatever.

 

[Ned_the_outer_god]

Just, stop.

 

[deonment]

Look, all I'm saying is that arceuss entry shouldn't be a species page or composite page, there are multiple arceuss with different feats, just like how the reflection cave works, there might be an infinite number of arceus's. Each that may have done something different.

That isnt how it works though, if your talking about avatars then yeah but the one we have on the profile is the actual non-avatar one

 

[Ned_the_outer_god]

Here's a better example. Remeber when dialga sent ash and the gang back in time during the movies? Well when they succeeded the changes started happening and arceuss memory's were altered.

Don't know if it was a bad example since it came from jewel of life but whatever.

The film is filled with PIS. Hell, we even see Arceus avatar's snoring shake 3 entire universes

 

[Shugon135]

This post should honestly still be closed. It brings nothing new as all of the topics have been discussed.

The OP's argument for three timelines is debunked by the canonicity blog we have set up. Additionally, Palkia and Dialga have been decided to only have one true version of each given how the Original Story goes.

Pokemon's canon

vsbattles.fandom.com

The OP flat-out admits it uses a non-canon spinoff to try to justify a downgrade.

After being called out on these being wrong, he decides to filibuster by bringing up other arguments when realizing the entire OP points are incorrect like saying they're actually only limited to one universe.

This seems like it is being done by someone who doesn't know how we treat the profiles and is trying to come up with any reason to downgrade Pokemon.

We should close this until they have an actual solid OP and are willing to stand by these points. This is honestly no better than their last post where they tried claiming Arceus wasn't multiversal because he didn't bust the multiverse on-screen.

If you want to close my thread then do it. I pretty much have bad evidence. But maybe I'll be back one day with new evidence.

 

[Lou_change]

The timeline split happened in a world they made and uses infinity energy which they predate and made if I am not mistaken. It is canon the same way DC has a multiverse. Also didn't we agree conquest and the mystery Dungeon games were uncanon meaning we should remove abilities from the profiles of all pokemon.

 

[Robot972]

Here's a better example. Remeber when dialga sent ash and the gang back in time during the movies? Well when they succeeded the changes started happening and arceuss memory's were altered.

Pretty sure the movie made the point to show that Arceus WASN'T affected by the changes in the past until he wanted to be. But even then, movie is full of PIS

 

[Trichosis]

What is PIS?

 

[PlozAlcachaz]

If you want to close my thread then do it. I pretty much have bad evidence. But maybe I'll be back one day with new evidence.

If you admit you have bad evidence and lacking arguments because of it right now, please ask for this thread to be closed.

 

[Ned_the_outer_god]

What is PIS?

Plot Induced Stupidity

 

[Trichosis]

Thanks for the Explanation.

 

[ProfessorKukui4Life]

Alright so let’s break down this evidence brought here.

Why the creation trio should be downgraded.

Evidence 1: composite being used for the profiles

In the profiles of the creation trio we see that arceus, palkia, giritina, and dialga are all stated to be multiversal because of evidence provided within the game and manga.

I don't see how this makes sense.
Multiple if not all profiles across vs battles like gokus profile have him separated from different series like heroes and xenoverse.

Your first mistake in attempting this downgrade is by mentioning other verses that are false equivalences to Pokémon. We don’t care about what other verses do because they are not Pokémon and their verse doesn’t not work the same as this one.

But to give a more precise answer, Pokemon isn’t “Composite” in the way that you think it is. It’s “composite” because in Pokémon’s case, the canons all exist in the same Multiverse as each other. In other words, the canons in Pokémon are not simply separate continuities, they are alternate universes of each other. The games are connected to the anime, which are connected to the manga, and vice versa.

Basically, Pokemon Composite is whats the canon. The continuities exist in the same world as one another, so they are able to “have” a Composite as their canon.

It’s not a true composite as in it’s some fan made thing that’s pulling different continuties together, but its a “composite” in the sense that all the different continuities exist in the same world as each other and thus are all canon.

That is what makes verses like Pokémon an exception as opposed to other verses who do not abide by this with their canon, such as dragon ball.

The creation trios profiles lack this element, its supposed to separate different versions from different timelines that are or are not canon. Let's put it this way

Here are the three timelines

Canon (anime)

Manga (separate canon)

Movies (not canon.)

All three of these timelines don't connect, since the current timeline is taking place in the anime.

Your also very wrong on this point to not include the games, which you should know, is Pokemons primary canon? And your also wrong on these continuities not connecting as several cross-canon evidences to prove they do link to each other have been given here time and time again.

We have author statements from interviews confirming the games are connected to the anime and manga. We have references between the games and animes that further cements their connection exists, such as anime-characters existing in the game continuity and things like Ash’s Pikachu and Greninja existing in the game continuity, and among other things used as evidence.

Your idea on the Pokémon canon and how they do or dont link to each other is extremely faulty.

Now for the Cyrus point:

Take a look at this.


Within this video it shows both dialga and palkia destroying a universe right?
That's half of it
The universe shown Is collapsing. So we can't assume that alone gives palkia and dialga a good feat to rely on, since the universe was shrinking by a massive rate.

Literally what is this point supposed to be referring to?

Cyrus’s universe was vanishing because Dialga and Palkias creation of it was halted. Ash, his friends and the Lake Trio freed Dialga and Palkia from the black chains that Cyrus was using to control them, which made the universe they were making for him vanish as a result of them discontinuing the process.

This isn’t some anti-feat or any form of anti-evidence against the CT in any way, shape or form.

Now getting to the Dark Matter point.

Evidence 2: Dark matters profile

The pokemon mystery dungeon series may not be canon, but it does prove my point for my first evidence.
Different versions have different powers.



During the fight dark matter charges up energy and manages to encase arceus in stone. I don't know about you but let's take a look at the stats
Dark matter 4-B
Arceus 2-B
I don't know about you but something smells outdated. Or it could just be that arceus in the mystery dungeon timeline isn't all that strong.

Ignoring the argument on MD being canon or not, your forgetting the one thing that shuts this point down being PIS

This is the same franchise that has our god tier being nearly killed by a meteor, despite how very inconsistent that is when feats in the same movie completely throw said inconsistency out the window.

Mystery Dungeon does the same thing seeing as Arceus here even easily stopped a whole timeline from getting erased caused by Darkrai and Primal Dialga’s nonsense.

The simple answer is that this is just another form of PIS that the Pokegods succumb to in moments like these in order for totally plot-breaking nonsense to not happen. Such Arceus not instantly vaporizing an enemy meant for the protagonists to beat as dictated by the narrative.

It’s stupid moments like these that we don’t do things like downgrading Goku for needing a suit to go to the center of the earth or Naruto for getting stabbed by weapons.

And since the OP brought nothing else, that’s where I stop when I say what I said the last time the OP made the thread.

I’m against any kind of downgrade on any level, the arguments and evidence brought against the ratings are poor and this thread needs to be closed just like the last one instead of needlessly repeating what happened already.