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Crimson Homura vs Hellfire Flame

TheRustyOne

TheRustyOne

VS Battles
Calculation Group
10,503
11,212
Both are High 7-A+ shinobi that use fire, how could I resist?

This is Deep Crimson Homura, and despite the picture Hellfire Flame starts out in his monster form.

Crimson Homura: 2.85 Gigatons

Hellfire Flame: 2.65 Gigatons (Downscales from 5.4 Gigatons)

Speed is Equalized.

Starting Distance = 10 meters

Who wins?

Crimson Fire: (0)

Hell Fire: (7) Cryo123, Kachon12, speedster352, Hagane_no_Saiyajin, Gohan?_You're_still_alive?, Popted2, TheRustyOne

EGRTGL6.png
 
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Before I say anything about who wins, I just want to say I'm glad you made this cool match-up. High 7-A+ Fire Ninja vs High 7-A+ Fire Ninja. What's most impressive about this is that neither party comes from Naruto!
 
TheRustyOne said:
I'm not counting votes without actual reasoning.
Click to expand...
They graduated top of their class from a Ninja village, which has consstently trained highly skilled assasins and fighters.

For me, it depends on how good her extrasensory perception is, if it's good, she wins with her AP advantage and TK. If it's not up to the task, Hellfire creates a bunch of afterimages to kill her.
 
Has his afterimages been shown to work on people comparable to himself in terms of speed? Or are they just cool visual effects with nothing suggesting that people on par with him are being fooled by them? Doing it against vastly slower people isn't notable.

Note: Saying highly skilled means nothing. Homura herself has been training in the art of Shinobi since she was old enough to hold a sword. Her family comes from a long line of shinobi and she rather easily wields six blades at once. And while she is Crimson Homura, trying to cross blades with her also risk getting hit by her six other swords.

She can control and attack with them telekinetically. So while she has one sword in hand, the other six can pop out of their sheath and attack all at once.

This key of Homura is also on par with Rin, who is a master class shinobi herself. Who is capable of taking out dozens if not hundreds of shinobi or Yoma at once. See how vague skill really is when explained like this, what exactly does anything of this really tell you besides they have a lot of experience?

Her senses allow her to always know the location of her target, along with knowing if they're good or evil. Some shinobi of similar or inferior caliber to herself can fight just fine while blind and deaf. A there are just a bunch of inferior shinobi that just fight while blindfolded for some reason.
 
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TheRustyOne said:
Has his afterimages been shown to work on people comparable to himself in terms of speed? Or are they just cool visual effects with nothing suggesting that people on par with him are being fooled by them? Doing it against vastly slower people isn't notable.
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They have. Sonic and Genos are around the same speed, and his afterimages work on Genos.
 
I don't see what that has to do with anything. Genos is slower than Sonic. Never landing a single hit and afterimages only showing up when he started moving faster with his Burial movement. So fast that Genos couldn't even perceive his movements. And is labeled on his profile as a speed amp as well.

Unless you're saying Hellfire Flame has the same speed technique as Sonic and doesn't have it on his profile for some reason?
 
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TheRustyOne said:
I don't see what that has to do with anything. Genos is slower than Sonic. Never landing a single hit
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Not much slower, and he did yank out his hair, which was his actual intention.
TheRustyOne said:
and afterimages only showing up when he started moving faster with his Burial movement. So fast that Genos couldn't even perceive his movements. And is labeled on his profile as a speed amp as well.

Unless you're saying Hellfire Flame has the same speed technique as Sonic and doesn't have it on his profile for some reason?
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They should... They've been shown to be far above him, and they both went through the same training.

Without afterimages, this is a complete mismatch.

You have a character with a higher AP, comparable skill, TK, and numerous other abilities that make this fight impossible. I think HF has a higher LS, but it's not in character for him to restrain an opponent.
 
Alright, lemme get a gander at them.

  • THE AP: Considering we're downscaling, Homura obviously has the edge here, even if Hellfire severely downscales from a feat that is exactly twice as much as Homura's yield, and considering that said downscaling is quite significant, at best they'd stand on similar terms, with Homura carrying the little advantage. I'd be voting on Hellfire here if that wasn't the case. They both seem on similar terms, the edge isn't all that insigificant imo, but could use fire as a way to circumvent this.

  • THE LS: Hellfire's LS outright superior, no doubts here, and not only that, but they're both nimble so they'd struggle to grab each other, a victory through submission could be possible considering they both use fire, but this depends on if it's in character for Hellfire to restrain.

  • Speed/Agility: Speed is equalized, so there is nothing to say here.

  • Toughness/Stamina: They're both superhuman, so they're practically equal, but I'm going to give this to Homura via scaling, we can assume she's comparable if not superior to Hikage, who can fight with complete efficiency despite being completely tired and at the edge of passing out, or even Yomi, who was capable of fighting with all her strength despite starving to death. Then there's shinobi like Katsuragi or Haruka were capable of fighting for 3 days straight without rest, so I'm gonna give this one to Homura.

  • Skill: Hellfire originated in the same village as Sonic, right? I'd need a OPM supporter to give us more input on Hellfire's backstory here, like, has he been training since he was a kid? As for Homura? She should be skilled against any kind of shinobi, I'm sure there was another Senran who could use fire, I just forgot who it was, so she'd probably have enough experience here, idk about Hellfire, we'd need a OPM supporter to decide skill.

  • Powers & Abilities: No question here, Homura has greater array of abilities, as well as a Shinobi Barrier, but other than that, her other powers mostly seem like flashy big AP attacks rather than hax that would allow for a one-shot or something in the ranks, while Homura has mostly flashy fire options, the ones that Hellfire does have make him more dangerous in an up-front assault, such as Afterimage Creation, which makes it possible for him to slip away from a few of Homura's big AP attacks, his superior LS might again also give him an edge, which plays an important part here.

  • Conclusion if out of character: Overall, I'm leaning towards Hellfire, I think that his Afterimage Creation and LS to keep Homura away is what will save him, he could likely evade and stop her until she drains herself out, it should be enough to grant him a victory over Homura's superiority in sheer AP.

  • Conclusion if in character: What Cryo said FRA, it seems really impossible for Hellfire to win here, almost makes it a mismatch imo, unless he uses Afterimages.

Counting it up, I conclude-

Homura
+Only a small AP advantage.
+Potentially has a larger stamina.
+Can snag a homefield advantage with a Shinobi Kekai Barrier.
=More notable techniques, but a lot are big flashy AP attacks.
-Gets destroyed once it comes to pure LS.
-Headstrong personality might make it hard for her to focus.
? Skill still needs to be decided.

Hellfire
+Superior LS.
+Afterimage Creation allows him to slip away from a lot of things thrown at him, wasting the opponents energy.
-Slight AP disadvantage.
-Possibly has a lower stamina.
? Skill still needs to be decided.
 
Hellfire is starting in his monster form, he is High 7-C in his human form. Is there anything to suggest Hellfire Flame should know the same technique as Sonic, instead of that being a move Sonic made up himself? Like I'd like some actual proof and not speculation. I don't see it on his profile so it has no bearing here.

No evidence his own afterimages works on comparable speed opponents, nor does he have a speed amp ability either.

Also Homura stamina should scale to other Hebijo students, since she trained there as well. Hebijo students have training that can last for 300 hours.

Homura being restrained would be difficult, since she controls her swords telekinetically and attack with them.

So I'm confused, this a stomp or not?
 
TheRustyOne said:
I'm not counting votes without actual reasoning.

You need to explain how one is more skilled than the other.

If you don't know how skill the other person is, then wait for supporters to come and explain.
Click to expand...
Hellfire was able to fight somewhat evenly with Flashy Flash. Flashy Flash was stated to be the most skilled fighter in the Hero Association, putting him to the level of Atomic Samurai and Bang, if not higher.

Flashy Flash was able to fight evenly with Garou, who, with his skill was able to copy and master entire fighting styles from reading up on it very quickly, mastering a secret WSRSF style from a glance, was able to pull of the RASRF, and much more.
 
Gohan?_You're_still_alive? said:
Could possibly be a stomp imo, Homura has a lot of advantages in character to the point where this would be unfair for Hellfire-
Click to expand...
Hellfire has a vast advantage in LS, meaning he could easily pin her down, and incapacitate her. From what I see on Homura's P&A section, most of the things there comprise of resistances that won't matter in this fight. What wincon does she have? Her AP won't mean anything when Hellfire is vastly more skilled, and has an extreme LS advantage.
 
That doesn't tell a lot. Especially when Flashy Flash was holding back against them so he could take both of them out at once.

1v1 he would've killed them in his first few attacks, if not just one shotted him. Also they were double teaming him as well, while he was holding back. Not a very good look for either of them. Also I never take fighting someone as meaning you're equal to them in skill.

Also Garou was never shown getting hit by Flashy Flash, so I doubt he made it through his techniques either. In fact Garou lands lots of hits on Flashy Flash and not the other way around. Easily deflecting his blows and kicking him away. Honestly it looks like they're just bullying Flashy Flash to me.

PS and Garou seem far better than him. So I wouldn't even say Flashy Flash is equal with Garou in skill, Garou smacked him around.
 
:0

I see-

Really, there isn't anything else I can add at this point, do what you will with the info I've given, I haven't casted a vote yet because I still have yet to see what others say.
 
TheRustyOne said:
Also Garou was never shown getting hit by Flashy Flash, so I doubt he made it through his techniques either. In fact Garou lands lots of hits on Flashy Flash and not the other way around. Easily deflecting his blows and kicking him away. Honestly it looks like they're just bullying Flashy Flash to me.
Click to expand...
They clashed hundreds, thousands, if not more times. Saying Flashy does not scale in skill is disingenuous.
 
Kachon123 said:
They clashed hundreds, thousands, if not more times. Saying Flashy does not scale in skill is disingenuous.
Click to expand...
Skill doesn't work like that. Just because you clash with someone doesn't mean you automatically on the same skill level as them. If Flashy Flash was shown getting past his guard, yeah that'd be good. Or him avoiding his attacks, that'd be good as well. Both of them rushing each other and clashing isn't very skillful.

I feel like a lot of people on this wiki have no idea what skill actually is. And instead just know about fictional skill which is absurd, wasteful, and showings are rather not skillful. I have yet to see anything to suggest Hellfire Flame is a skill god on par with Flashy Flash or Garou.

Telling people to stop downplaying makes you look a child, respect the fact we disagree with each other and debate against me. Saying I'm downplaying makes it look like you're trying to insult or belittle me for not sharing your opinion. Which is unacceptable. If you're having a bad day I suggest you take a break if you're getting heated.
 
Given the skill and LS are clearly Hellfire's victory, the strength of her TK is the what's keeping me from casting my vote for HF. Anyone know how strong it is?
 
I swear "skill" is the stupidest debate that anyone can ever get into. Especially when it comes to fictional characters who "skills" that break the laws of physics. It becomes very opinionated and hard to argue against or for. Like what am I suppose to say here, I don't see how anything I can say can convince someone against what they believe.

Like is there any point in arguing? When neither side wants to agree with the other?

I've still yet to see anything to suggest Hellfire Flame is more skilled than Homura or is comparable to Flashy Flashy who was holding back.
 
TheRustyOne said:
Like is there any point in arguing? When neither side wants to agree with the other?
Click to expand...
You're not agreeing with whats literally on the page- skill scaling. If you have an issue with it create a CRT to remove skill scaling. As of right now, Hellfire scales to FF, who scales above Bang, who scales to around Garou, who is massively most skilled than Homura.
 
TheRustyOne said:
Skill doesn't work like that. Just because you clash with someone doesn't mean you automatically on the same skill level as them. If Flashy Flash was shown getting past his guard, yeah that'd be good. Or him avoiding his attacks, that'd be good as well. Both of them rushing each other and clashing isn't very skillful.

I feel like a lot of people on this wiki have no idea what skill actually is. And instead just know about fictional skill which is absurd, wasteful, and showings are rather not skillful. I have yet to see anything to suggest Hellfire Flame is a skill god on par with Flashy Flash or Garou.
Click to expand...
Make a CRT.
TheRustyOne said:
If you're having a bad day I suggest you take a break if you're getting heated.
Click to expand...
TheRustyOne said:
I swear "skill" is the stupidest debate that anyone can ever get into. Especially when it comes to fictional characters who "skills" that break the laws of physics. It becomes very opinionated and hard to argue against or for.
Click to expand...
No one is heated but you. You're choosing to argue with the wiki, and wiki standards, not me.
 
Okay, because the TK doesn't have the LS to change the fight, Hellfire has more skill and experience, and enough LS to pin her in an instant, I think the battle is in Hellfire's favor.

Also, Rusty, everyone's having a rough day, as of late my life has kind of been a living hell, but you are the one getting heated here. Not Kachon, not Gohan, not me.
 
Cryo123 said:
Also, Rusty, everyone's having a rough day, as of late my life has kind of been a living hell, but you are the one getting heated here. Not Kachon, not Gohan, not me.
Click to expand...
My sincere apologies if that was how I was coming off. Thought I don't see how anything I said was heated, just some minor annoyance. While Kachon stated I was downplaying, as if I was purposefully going against him for some reason. Even though I fine his argument not all that well explained.

Here is some examples of how Homura's telekinetic swords work. 1, 2, and 3. Restraining her will be difficult, as he'll be attack by six other swords.

Also Hellfire Flame is not be proven to be more skilled, as no one has provided proof of his skill surpassing Homura. Insteading bring up characters like Garou or Flashy Flash who stomps them with ease. Flashy Flash was holding back, so no I don't see how he is equal to Flashy Flash with skill. It was also a 2v1 as well and they're losing.

So I will not be counting votes until some Senran Kagura supports arrive to explain Homura's skill level. As I'm god awful at trying to explain myself, as you've seen above.
 
I admit to have just finished a render which took me a few hours and my wrist hurt and it's very hot. I hear high heat makes people easily agitated. Not an excuse I'm aware. But I took a second to cool down and I do deeply apologies for my behavior. Especially to @Kachon123, as he didn't deserve that disrespectful tone I gave him.

I also didn't really have a good time when the first response on this thread was, excuse my language, pure nonsense. "Voting Hellfire Flame due to vastly superior skill." That really took me out of the good mood I was in, especially when FRA trains usually happen right after that.

I'll admit that Hellfire's showings are more impressive than Homura's.

Due to the fact she lacks any real skill feats like his own. Due to being a video game and cutscene battles aren't really a big thing. So all I can really say, unless someone more knowledgeable than me, is that she is very skilled and been training as a shinobi since she was very young.
 
I think I would like to mention that wasn't Homura's formal training was cut short? Her family after all did cast her out and then she joined Hebijo. And while I won't try to slight Hebijo as school, it is evident that Hebijo is basically the Gotei 13 or just Squad 11. They practically throw you to the wolves once you've gotten the basics down
 
Nah, I admit that was me being really disgustingly petty. Cryo seems like he was going to post something else though.

And I don't see how Afterimages have any value in this battle. Since I haven't gotten anything to suggest he can increase his speed or confuse anyone with equal speed with Afterimages. Since she'd still be able to see him move away, I guess it'd be confusing to suddenly see two of him.
 
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