Cradle Verse Addition

[ObberGobb]

Has there been any update on the calcs by the way?

 

[Sonoftanavast9]

Has there been any update on the calcs by the way?

none that I'm aware of. Right now I'm still waiting for the Lindons Low-gold calc to be evaluated so that it can be used for scaling and I'm going through the first few books for feats to scale coppers, irons and jades to

The tree feat from Mon Teris can probably be used to scale all coppers since upon looking back at the book he was copper

 

[ObberGobb]

I disagree with your method of calcing the Weeping Dragon's attack. I think it would be better to calc the damage it did to the moon rather than KE for an energy feat.

 

[ObberGobb]

I didn't find any new feats that would give an upgrade to the characters, but there were a few that can be supporting evidence for High 6-A.

I'm not sure about EoS Lindon's tiering though, as we have no timeframe for the Fiend's destruction of all that stuff. Do Class 2 Fiends have any feats in other books?

 

[Sonoftanavast9]

I disagree with your method of calcing the Weeping Dragon's attack. I think it would be better to calc the damage it did to the moon rather than KE for an energy feat.

Why though? Only a small portion of the actual breath was dragged across the moon for a brief moment less than a second while the rest of it was just blasted randomly into space while the dragon flailed around. The method I used is clearly more indicative of the attacks power rather than what would be just a small fraction of it that grazed the moon.

The only real point of contention could be the timeframe for the breath reaching the moon (I used 2 seconds) but I plan on editing in 2 more values to give a High, Mid and Low end using (2 second, 5 seconds and 10 seconds)

I'm not sure about EoS Lindon's tiering though, as we have no timeframe for the Fiend's destruction of all that stuff. Do Class 2 Fiends have any feats in other books?

Class 2 Fiends are comparable to silverlords and can participate in battles involving the Judges (though like Silverlords they aren't on par with the Judges on their own). Any Fiend which isn't a Class one (the only of which exist in verse are Oth'kimeth and the Great Elders from Elder Empire) would scale below or on par with a Class 2 which includes the following:

• The one that fought during the battle in Harrow during reaper and created it's own distorted world(which the ghost negated)
• Another in Dreadgod was large enough to take bits out of planets on sheer size alone but Ozriel erased it

 

[ObberGobb]

Why though? Only a small portion of the actual breath was dragged across the moon for a brief moment less than a second while the rest of it was just blasted randomly into space while the dragon flailed around. The method I used is clearly more indicative of the attacks power rather than what would be just a small fraction of it that grazed the moon.

I don't think KE is correct to use for this kind of attack. It is a madra-based attack, its not physically moving the mass of the storm up to the moon. You can't really use KE for beam attacks.

And since it was just part of it that quickly scraped the moon, I think the feat is unquantifiable beyond the lowball of the damage we know it did.

 

[Sonoftanavast9]

I don't think KE is correct to use for this kind of attack. It is a madra-based attack, its not physically moving the mass of the storm up to the moon. You can't really use KE for beam attacks.

The Weeping Dragon causes storms by agitating the Aura around it so the storm is 100% natural as aura manipulate natural elements and according to Will aura is even what causes natural phenomena to occur normally on Cradle anyways

We are told word for word that it pulls the storm into it's mouth as it devours the aura (basically pulling the aura to itself pulled the storm as well)

Madra is obviously a big component of the dragons breath but so is the literally storm which itself has mass so the attack being calced as such isn't a stretch at all. It's just literally what happens

 

[ObberGobb]

The storm is natural, but I don't think we should treat madra the same way we treat physical mass. And again, its a beam of light. Its absorbing the aura which it used to power its attack. KE can only be used if it was literally pushing the physical mass of the storm, which isn't what happened. We can't use KE for a beam of madra light.

 

[Sonoftanavast9]

The storm is natural, but I don't think we should treat madra the same way we treat physical mass. And again, its a beam of light.

It's stated to be a solid and clearly "beam of light" isn't literal(if it was we'd treat this attack as Lightspeed) just a descriptor because it's a predominantly glowing yellow beam. Again the storm didn't just get erased from existence when it was compressed into the dragons mouth so that mass is clearly still there

To add to this we have see Ruler attacks which have madra added to them before, it is literally a staple of higher tier sacred artists to create and use techniques that layer all their other techniques onto each other as their most powerful attack, It's what Lindons Dragons Descends is and what Yerins Final Sword is too so clearly mixing real elements with mass and madra or adding madra isn't a new concept nor does it erase the mass. Clearly this is also the case for the weeping dragons breath since it literally does that.

Its absorbing the aura which it used to power its attack.

It absorbed the storm as well as the aura that is clearly in the scan.

KE can only be used if it was literally pushing the physical mass of the storm, which isn't what happened. We can't use KE for a beam of madra light.

It compressed the physical mass of the storm along with aura and madra(from it's lightning dragons & itself) and then fired it as an attack. To deny this either

• The storm just suddenly stopped existing when it was drawn into the weeping dragons mouth
• The storm had no mass to begin with
• The storm never entered the dragons mouth

Non of these are true so clearly the mass approach is viable

 

[ObberGobb]

Call in some mods to ask them, because I really think KE can't be used here.

1. It isn't physical mass, it is madra energy. It is only describes as looking like its solid.

2. It isn't a projectile, it is a beam of energy.

 

[Sonoftanavast9]

Call in some mods to ask them, because I really think KE can't be used here.

1. It isn't physical mass, it is madra energy. It is only describes as looking like its solid.

2. It isn't a projectile, it is a beam of energy.

I'll try to but again

1. it's a layered technique which has mass, madra and aura (The mass doesn't just stop existing) which is extremally common past underlord: eg Layered techniques and Reigan shens water technique from reaper
2. It's a layered technique which has all the above

 

[TypicalBattle]

Every feat I can remember from both Cradle and Elder Empire regarding Ozriel.
Speed:

• Reacted to Daruman slicing the universe in half. Bare minimum MFTL however you could argue infinite speed as the attack is described in the same manner as the one Daruman used against Suriel and Makiel. The attack that the concept of size no longer applied too.
  • “Suriel saw the attack a moment before it happened. A black slash, so vast that the concept of size no longer applied. With one swing of the Scythe, the Mad King sliced the Iteration in half. The entire universe split with the blue planet at the center, the two halves drifting apart, the Void stretching between them.” – Bloodline Chapter 18
  • “The Mad King saw him protecting himself and struck. With his scythe. The Iteration split in half as he cut at the fabric of existence, but Eithan held out a hand. The slice in reality stopped exactly at the edge of his palm.” – Reaper Chapter 25

• Can move at the speed of the Fox, who can cross the infinite Way to exist in multiple universes simultaneously in finite time. Infinite speed feat.
  • “Zakariel disappeared from the Wolf’s hands, and she flickered through existence. A white-armored hand clapped onto the shoulder of the Vroshir. All the Vroshir, save the Mad King. All at once…The workings vanished, and the Fox struck. Blood sprayed across many realities.” – Reaper Chapter 14
  • “Eithan levered the scythe up onto his shoulder. “That’s my job.” With the speed of the Fox, he moved.” – Reaper Chapter 25
    • A Silverlord was shown able to move in a zone beyond time as well.
      • “Time froze around her. In that space beyond time, she began a subtle but far-reaching working, redefining the mechanisms of Iteration One-one-nine. Durandiel rose up from behind the four-armed Vroshir and watched. “Not bad,” the Ghost said. The woman spun around, her backhand..." - Reaper Chapter 21

• Ozriel can chase down and destroy 16 FTL Void-striding transport ships while sealed, weakened from years under the Origin Shroud, and without his Scythe and Mantle.
  • “Void portals opened and transports ran through, traveling to one of the Vroshir home worlds…His Presence alerted him that, of the sixteen transports, now only fifteen remained. There was no cause that he could sense; nothing had changed except the number of transports. Then it changed again. Fourteen…And, against Gerravon’s expectations, their transport made it through the Void portal. He let out a breath of relief, and someone clapped him on the shoulder.He assumed it was one of the bridge crew until, with a chill, he realized his Presence hadn’t detected anyone next to him. Slowly, the old Silverlord turned his head to the right. Ozriel stood next to him in black armor…” – Dreadgod Chapter 5
    • I think it’s more than reasonable to assume FTL when Sanctum has FTL, why wouldn’t the Vroshir. Cradle (Jan. 2, 2018)

• Out speed another FTL Void transport
  • “Until Ozriel zipped through the closing portal after the Vroshir…” I have faith in you,” Ozriel said. He overtook some of the original transports and emerged into the golden sunlight of the Vroshir homeworld.”- Dreadgod Chapter 5

Strength:

• Ozriel and Makiel’s clashes over the executor program led to the destabilization of surrounding universes to the point that Suriel, the Ultimate Healer and absolute aspect of Restoration had to step in. Said universes are an infinite distance apart.
  • “When their conflict destabilized the surrounding Iterations, forcing the intervention of Suriel, she had made them swear to stay separated.” – Reaper Chapter 24

• Can match Razeal in combat
  • “Ozriel wasn’t leaving existence undefended, after all. Makiel and Razael were both able to match Ozriel in battle, at least when it came to open combat.” – Reaper Chapter 24

• Can tear the Origin Shroud into pieces. This is a multiversal feat as the scraps he tore the Origin Shroud into were each individually more powerful and significant than an entire universe. And he did this while holding back so he wouldn’t be found by other Judges and so that he didn’t destroy the artifact that would allow him to accomplish his dreams of starting over.
  • “But he was holding back. When his sword met the Scythe, space cracked and reality warped, but it didn’t break. The Vroshir didn’t want to attract attention, which suited Ozriel just fine. He didn’t want the attention of the other Judges any more than the Mad King did.” – Reaper Chapter 25
  • “He wouldn’t leave them alone, of course…So Ozriel put that prospect out of his mind and gathered up the pieces of the fallen veil. This Origin Shroud would change everything.” – Reaper Chapter 25
    • Ozriel knew what it was so clearly wouldn’t want to completely destroy it.

• Can solo the Class-One Fiend, The Creeping Shadow, while in the void where he’d be weaker and the Fiend stronger, without his mantle. The Class-One Fiend also had a similar authority of Destruction that Ozriel has.
  • “All is darkness. There is only the void… Urg'naut had already won. He’d won from the very beginning. He had won before the game began. How could you avoid the end itself?" – Of Kings and Killers Chapter 20
  • “A mans stood between that disk and the planet below…His white hair hung behind him, his armor glistened black, and he carried a dark Scythe the size of his body in a one-handed grip.” – Of Kings and Killers Chapter
    • No mantle mentioned, and they immediately start fighting after this. There was also no mantle when Calder first spoke to Ozriel.
  • “The cracks in the sky which had once shown on to a void filled with multicolored lights now was showed pure darkness… “Urg’naut won,” Shera said looking into the sky. Calder shook his head. This was not the pure nonexistence Urg'naut sought. It was ocean deep all-consuming intent to destroy, the will of an executioner. “No,” Calder said “He lost.”– Of Kings and Killers Chapter 24
    • The battle between Ozriel and Urg’naut destroyed all the world fragments in the void.
    • At the start of the battle:
      • “The sky shattered…the Void was their sky now. The infinite darkness could almost fool him into thinking it was the night sky, but these lights could not be mistaken for natural stars. They shone in fuzzy balls of red, green, purple and they twisted in lazy orbits.” – Of Kings and Killer Chapter 21
  • “…but in the Void, they were formidable opponents. Her powers were weaker here and theirs stronger.” – Waybound 28
    • Judges are weaker in the Void while Fiends are stronger.

• While sealed by manacles that can tether universes, weakened from years under the Origin Shroud, and without his Scythe and Mantle merely entering a Universes causes it to shake.
  • “Gadrael returned with another artifact, this one a set of iron-and-crystal manacles that could tether entire worlds.” – Dreadgod Prologue
    • We know that world and iteration are used interchangeably with universe so I’m not going to provide quotes for that unless requested.
  • “The entire Iteration shook as Death entered.” – Dreadgod Chapter 5

• Killed a Class-Two Fiend while sealed by manacles that can tether universes, weakened from years under the Origin Shroud, without his Scythe, without his Mantle and while being sealed by additional runes from a dozen different energy systems.
  • “They would see if this trap would hold against Ozriel. To see if he was really weakened, as the Mad King claimed…He was surrounded by symbols formed from a dozen different energy systems, all calling on the Void or the power of strange worlds to imprison him. A Class Two Fiend erupted from the Void like a twisted mutant serpent large enough to take bites out of planets.” – Dreadgod Chapter 5
  • “Gerravon felt the trembling pulses of power throughout the universe and, in spite of himself, he cast his awareness behind. The seals and the Fiend were gone. Just gone.” – Dreadgod Chapter 5

• Killed a Silverlord about to destroy the universe of Spawn by simply flexing his authority while sealed by manacles that can tether universes, weakened from years under the Origin Shroud, and without his Scythe and Mantle.
  • “Then he condensed all his Hundred Hands into a single strike that would obliterate this transport, his entire fleet, and most of Spawn to hopefully leave a crack in that pristine black armor. Instead, he felt his power dissolving along with the very origin of his existence.” – Dreadgod Chapter 5

• Killed multiple Silverlords at once with a single word command while sealed by manacles that can tether universes, weakened from years under the Origin Shroud, and without his Scythe and Mantle
  • “He didn’t have his Scythe with him, but he reached his hand across the gulf of space and spoke a command. Suriel sensed many hostile powers die in an instant…With fewer Silverlords to oppose Suriel…” – Dreadgod Chapter 5

• A working of Ozriel’s shook an entire sector of the Way. A sector of the Way contains 10 universes and the distance between said universes is infinite. It was also stated that Ozriel’s working should’ve echoed through all creation but didn’t because of the seals the Mad King placed on the sector.
  • “Ozriel stretched out a hand to the side. “Come to me,” he murmured. That call echoed through all creation. At least it should have. [The Sector is fully isolated,].”– Waybound Prologue
    • Ozriel without his Scythe and casual working is capable of reaching across all of existence and only didn’t because the Mad King isolated the sector. Also, worth noting Ozriel is still weakened from his time as Eithan when he does this.
  • “Come to me,” he ordered again. Iteration Three Hundred trembled. The Way Trembled. The entire Sector trembled.” – Waybound Prologue
  • “That cry hadn’t reached the weapon, but echoes of it still escaped the Sector.” – Waybound Chapter 5

Sight/Senses:

• Foresaw Suriel would be the one to hunt him down centuries/decades later after going into hiding and left messages for her.
  • “That you stumbled on evidence of him was due to his foresight, not your own success as a hunter.” – Skysworn Chapter 2
  • “Ozriel spread false trails throughout existence, so that even the Hound couldn’t track him. He even left messages for Suriel, presuming that she would be the one to hunt him.” – Reaper Chapter 24

• Ozriel could see through the Origin Shroud to a limited extent.
  • “It was while he was inside Iteration 216: Limit, arranging another of his shelters, that he discovered something odd. A subtle touch of chaos in the future that only he—or a Makiel sitting where he was—could have discovered.” – Reaper Chapter 24
    • Whether you take this as directly seeing through the Origin Shroud or Ozriel merely noticing the ripples on the pond from a stone he can’t see is certainly debatable.
    • Even if you don’t interpret this as Ozriel seeing through the Origin Shroud in a limited capacity it is still an insane feat to see Daruman, who can warp the future so much that simply speaking disrupts the flow of fate, while he is using the Origin Shroud.
    • Note that this is while Makiel is in Outpost01: Oversight where his sight is enhanced, his sight is still disrupted by the mad king speaking.
      • “Every atom and idea in this place was focused on enhancing his sight, like a great telescope at the heart of existence.” – Uncrowned Chapter 1
      • “The voice of the Mad King had been enough to disrupt the flow of Fate through which he viewed the past.” – Uncrowned Chapter 17
      • Even at the heart of creation, with his sight enhanced, Makiel cannot see a normal conversation of the Mad King while Ozriel noticed him with the Origin Shroud on, through chaos corrupted fate, and years if not centuries in advance.
        • “How had Ozriel known? Even two hundred years later, Daruman couldn’t figure it out. Had he really seen so far, through chaos-corrupted Fate?” – Bloodline 8

• Ozriel can see everything. Given the role of the Spider this can be taken as a literal statement.
  • “The Mad King dashed away, but Eithan had once been declared the heir of the Spider. His awareness expanded to fill...everything. Nothing could hide from him.” – Reaper Chapter 25
  • “When Ozriel vanished, Telariel cast his laziness aside and bent his full attention to the search. He was soon forced to admit defeat. Ozriel took steps to hide himself from the detection of the Way, and the Spider's skill is nothing next to the Reaper's.” – WoW

• Stated that Judges could hear anything.
  • "The crowds were miles away, but Judges could hear anything." – Dreadgod Prologue

• Was capable of seeing through the thousands of stealth artifacts employed by Silverlord Gaeravon while his sight was restricted to a three-star hound and six-star spider respectively. He refers to this as his eyes being blinkered and Suriel refers to Ozriel’s current state as blind.
  • “As one, thousands of different mechanisms triggered stealth. They created decoys of divergent futures, manipulated probability to make themselves less prone to chance discovery, wiped themselves from minds and awareness, dispersed energy signatures...they employed every method to hide and disguise themselves.” – Dreadgod 5

• Was able to push the Mad King, who can warp fate through his authority over chaos, into a smaller cluster of possibilities while having his sight restricted to a 3-star hound with his ability to alter and conceal fate revoked/restricted.
  • “The Mad King was difficult to observe in the best of times, warping Fate by his very presence, but she could see him being pushed into a smaller cluster of possibilities. Even blind, Ozriel still had a master’s touch.” – Dreadgod Chapter 5

• Would be able to see through shadows dredged from the end of time itself
  • “They were confident in their stealth, hidden by shadows they had dredged from the end of time…He saw right through them…” – Reaper Chapter 21
    • Feat of the Spider but anything the Spider can do, Ozriel can.

• Would be able to weave his authority across the infinite distances of the Way, Time, and Space.
  • “Finally, she felt the touch of Telariel, the Spider…retreating temporarily from a victory to connect her to all the other Judges. She caught brief glimpses of the remaining four, each engaged in battle, as Telariel wove his strands of authority to link them across time and space.” – Bloodline Chapter 20
    • He also has to weave his authority through the Way as Suriel was currently in Sanctum restoring Makiel while everyone else is fighting. The Vroshir never made it to Sanctum.

Reality Manipulation: Anything Ozriel does is some level of reality manipulation just because of how being a Judge works. I just found a few that stood out to me.

• Can twist the future to such a degree that Makiel failed to see his departure coming.
  • “He’d manipulated Fate so that no one could see his departure coming—if anyone could twist the future to such a degree, Ozriel could.” – Blackflame Chapter 21
  • “Ozriel spread false trails throughout existence, so that even the Hound couldn’t track him.” – Reaper Chapter 24

• Can erase the Origin of Existence.
  • “Instead, he felt his power dissolving along with the very origin of his existence” – Dreadgod Chapter 5

• Can wipe power away or reinforce realities with the authority of the Ghost. The ability to wipe away workings even on a universal scale was demonstrated to affect multiple realities simultaneously.
  • “Durandiel tapped her staff lightly on empty space, and everything rippled. The workings vanished, and the Fox struck. Blood sprayed across many realities” – Reaper Chapter 14
  • “He reached deep into reality with the powers of the Ghost, reinforcing the reality of Iteration Three Hundred.” – Waybound 21

• Can collapse half formed realities of chaos with a word using the authority of the Ghost.
  • “No,” the Ghost said, and the half-formed reality collapsed.” – Reaper Chapter 14
    • Again, anything any Judge does, save Suriel, Ozriel can.

• Ozriel’s body is perfected conceptually.
  • “His body had been perfected both genetically and conceptually.” – Dreadgod Chapter 23

 

[ObberGobb]

Bumping! Now that the series is complete, we can finish this up (for real this time).

 

[Sonoftanavast9]

Alright, I've created a sandbox for the Verse page, which will be called Willverse (A name the author uses for their collective works)

Sonoftanavast9/Willverse

vsbattles.fandom.com

With it two more calcs have been approved leading to a baseline scaling change

Sha Miara Evaporates A Sea (Recalc)

vsbattles.fandom.com

Cradle Series: The Weeping Dragons Breath

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The first is, as it says, a recalc of the prior Sha Miara Calc which leads to the following new scaling:

The basic structure of the tiering(For the last 2 points check the Lindon sandbox for more in-depth detail):

Spoiler: Current scaling

• Herald/Sage/Archlords: [26.2 Exatons] - Multi-Continental (High 6-A) for scaling to 1/8th Sha Miara's Attack Potency -> Heralds and Sage scale directly to this value while Archlords scale to "At most High 6-A" due to downscaling from them
• Sha Miara: [209.2 Exatons] - Moon level (5-C) obviously for scaling to her own calc, like last time it is noted that she is far below other Monarchs like Northstrider in terms of pure power to the point where he would annihilate her
• Other Monarchs/Dreadgods: [782.427 Zettatons] - Planet level (5-B) Scaling to the Weeping Dragons calc though Monarchs only scale to either "At most Planet level" or "At least Moon level, possibly Planet level" due to scaling to Northstrider downscaling from just barely surviving the weeping dragons breath in the past
• Post Weeping Dragon Death: [3.130 Yottatons] - Large Planet level (5-A) Basically Lindon and the remaining Dreadgods(Phoenix and Titan) would scale to this due to them scaling to multipliers of the Silent King Bow which operates by combining the users power with that of the bow while Using any external arrows with the bow is stated to redouble the power of the bow which is directly explained to have been doubled its power again(essentially the context of the world "redouble" in that second scan is made clear by the 3rd scan explaining how it "doubles again) because they treat combined attacks from the Silent King Bow like a bloody nose and scraps
• Final Dreadgod Lindon: [1.53449357983 Zettafoe] - Multi-Solar System level (4-A) basically Lindon scale to this for word for word shaking the entire universe when unsealing his power in combination with his Dreadgod weapons(they outright specify all of "Iteration 001" not the central planet of the iteration/ not vaguely "the world" etc. so I think this is pretty explicit in it's meaning) to which shaking a universe is directly given values on the wikis common feats page.
• EOS Lindon and the gang: [1.4125 QuettaexaFoe] - Multi-Galaxy level (3-B) Only with a 'Possibly At most' or 'likely' rating due to being Capable of defeating a Class Two Fiend of Chaos which are being that even Silverlords call for backup despite Silverlords like Gerravon being capable of destroying 'most' of an iteration

Most of this is more subject to change (anything post Sha Miara's explanation) but this is more or less the general outline.

Most of the info is in there but I'll still break it down here as well. I've created two blogs for the purpose of "Verse Specific Powers and Abilities", One for Sacred Artist Physiology (Copper -> Archlord) and One for Ascended Being Physiology (Sage/Herald -> Upwards):

Sacred Artist Physiology (Cradle)

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Ascended Being Physiology (Cradle)

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and with all of that in mind here is the sandbox for Lindons profile:

Sonoftanavast9/Wei Shi Lindon (Waybound)

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Basically the idea is to have profiles for the stuff we already have (Archlord upwards tiers, not all at once) but Lindon will have 2 other profiles one for post sage and one for pre sage

 

[Dragoonseraphim]

These all look really good. Fantastic work!

 

[ObberGobb]

I still don't like the Waybound calc, as its not like the entire mass is moving up to the moon. Its just a beam growing upwards, so half of the mass never moves more than halfway to the moon. I also generally don't like KE calcs like this because I feel like they almost always result in a much more inflated value than what the author intended. Like all we see of the attack is a gash on the moon, I really don't think it was intended to be a Planetary attack. I think it would be better to just use a fire calc for the full volume of the beam.

I am uncertain about 3-B as well. The use of the word "Spawn" instead of "Iteration" makes me think it was talking about just the planet. Like iirc, in every instance where its the whole universe being affected they use the word "iteration." The Lindon feat that 4-A comes from says that Iteration 110 shook, not that Cradle shook. I think for EoS Lindon we should just say "At least 4-A" as the Fiend he was fighting destroyed the whole Iteration over time (we have no timeframe). I could be wrong, but I just feel like that feat isn't solid enough to be 3-B. There way be context I don't remember that indicates it is talking about the whole Iteration though.

Also, pre-Ascension Lindon would scale to Silverlords as well. He curbstomped Li Markuth, who said he had attacks he used for combat against Silverlords.

 

[The_one_you_least_expect]

Been thinking about getting into this series for awhile, might check it out sooner rather then later

 

[ObberGobb]

Its a really great series, I'd highly recommend it

 

[Dragoonseraphim]

Agreed. I was hooked almost as soon as I started. I’m also planning on doing a reread soon since it’s been a while.

 

[Sonoftanavast9]

I still don't like the Waybound calc, as its not like the entire mass is moving up to the moon. Its just a beam growing upwards, so half of the mass never moves more than halfway to the moon. I also generally don't like KE calcs like this because I feel like they almost always result in a much more inflated value than what the author intended. Like all we see of the attack is a gash on the moon, I really don't think it was intended to be a Planetary attack. I think it would be better to just use a fire calc for the full volume of the beam.

I still hold my stance on the calc because of the reasons I gave, I hold to the fact that the beam itself never actually fully hit the moon because

1. it only grazed across the moon for specifically for less than a second (A second is how long it would take for the calced planetary level potency to fully be applied to the moon so my calc essentially is more accurate on account of the moon itself only experiencing a small fraction of the beams force)
2. only a very small fraction of the beam actually hits the moon, the rest of it gets vented into space which obviously means that the full potency of it never applied to the moon

All together I believe the current calc to be the most accurate display because the other methods of calc (like calcing the moon gash etc.) are only every accounting for the small fraction of the total amount of energy from the attack that actually hit the moon.

I am uncertain about 3-B as well. The use of the word "Spawn" instead of "Iteration" makes me think it was talking about just the planet. Like iirc, in every instance where its the whole universe being affected they use the word "iteration." The Lindon feat that 4-A comes from says that Iteration 110 shook, not that Cradle shook. I think for EoS Lindon we should just say "At least 4-A" as the Fiend he was fighting destroyed the whole Iteration over time (we have no timeframe). I could be wrong, but I just feel like that feat isn't solid enough to be 3-B. There way be context I don't remember that indicates it is talking about the whole Iteration though.

To give you more context on why I labeled that feats as 3-B, I'll need to present some extra info.

Basically Iterations like Cradle, have 1 central planet referred to by the same name as the general universe. The word "Cradle" can refer to either the planet or the universe depending entirely on the context so it's very important to scrutinize statements referring to "Cradle" which is why the fact that they specifically say "the iteration" is relevant in that case.

In spawns case, it has 3 central planets neither of which are named Spawn, that name thus refers to the iteration alone. When they refer to the planets they always refer to them as "Spawns central planets"/"the central planets" (Waybound Chp 5.)

 

[ObberGobb]

The full power of the beam did hit the moon, there isn't any implication otherwise, its just that it cut across it in a slashing motion. It took less than a second for the beam to reach the moon and cut across it, but during that cutting motion the full force of the beam still hit the moon. Even with this powerful beam cutting across the moon, it still only left a gash, no where near Planetary.

Also what formula are you using? Like where did you get it from?

And regardless, I'm unsure if anyone scales anyway. The attack is treated as being on a completely different level than any other Monarch or Dreadgod attack.

 

[Sonoftanavast9]

The full power of the beam did hit the moon, there isn't any implication otherwise, its just that it cut across it in a slashing motion. It took less than a second for the beam to reach the moon and cut across it, but during that cutting motion the full force of the beam still hit the moon. Even with this powerful beam cutting across the moon, it still only left a gash, no where near Planetary.

The full power of the beam clearly doesn't hit the moon. While it is releasing the breath the Dragons head gets forced up by Lindon and it starts flailing around randomly, in this flailing it just passes over the moon for less than a second. It not that "It took less than a second for the beam to reach the moon and cut across it", it scraps across the moon for only less than a second

The dragon is spewing the breath randomly causing most of it to spray into space, it just happens to cross the moon for less than a second which left the mark

Also what formula are you using? Like where did you get it from?

The mass flow rate x K.E term from Bernoullis equation to get the K.E of gas flowing in a tubular shape/pipe (since it's a beam)

And regardless, I'm unsure if anyone scales anyway. The attack is treated as being on a completely different level than any other Monarch or Dreadgod attack.

That's not really relevant since they just downscale from it due to Northstrider still being able to survived full on getting hit by it either way, they all only get an "At most" rating from it

In terms of the Dreadgods/Lindon, they all immediately get amped and empowered far beyond the dragon once it dies

 

[The_one_you_least_expect]

Placed an order for book 1 now all I gotta do is wait until December

 

[Sonoftanavast9]

Placed an order for book 1 now all I gotta do is wait until December

Should have just bought the e book on kindle or something

Funny enough a few months ago the author celebrated his 10th anniversary for publishing his books by setting all the e books of every book he'd ever written till that point to 0 dollars for a limited time

 

[The_one_you_least_expect]

Should have just bought the e book on kindle or something

Funny enough a few months ago the author celebrated his 10th anniversary for publishing his books by setting all the e books of every book he'd ever written till that point to 0 dollars for a limited time

I prefer the physical copy tbh

 

[ObberGobb]

The full power of the beam clearly doesn't hit the moon. While it is releasing the breath the Dragons head gets forced up by Lindon and it starts flailing around randomly, in this flailing it just passes over the moon for less than a second. It not that "It took less than a second for the beam to reach the moon and cut across it", it scraps across the moon for only less than a second

The dragon is spewing the breath randomly causing most of it to spray into space, it just happens to cross the moon for less than a second which left the mark

The mass flow rate x K.E term from Bernoullis equation to get the K.E of gas flowing in a tubular shape/pipe (since it's a beam)

That's not really relevant since they just downscale from it due to Northstrider still being able to survived full on getting hit by it either way, they all only get an "At most" rating from it

In terms of the Dreadgods/Lindon, they all immediately get amped and empowered far beyond the dragon once it dies

Nothing indicates that anything less than the full power of the beam hit the moon. Yes, it was flailing around randomly and hit it for less than one second, but it still did hit the moon. Its a beam, and cut across it, but it did hit it. It specifically says "like a dagger" meaning it was still in concentrated laser-like beam form, and not a shotgun-like spray. When it says spraying it breath randomly, it essentially means the equivalent of flailing a laser pointer around.

Also, when did Northstrider tank this technique? I know he fought it in the past but he got crushed by it, and I don't remember him ever tanking it. Its also important to mention that this Weeping Dragon was much weaker than the current one, as the Silent King hadn't been killed yet. After the Silent King died, the Dreadgods became much stronger and the Monarchs couldn't rival them anymore. And again, Ziel directly said it was beyond any technique he had ever seen from a Monarch or Dreadgod. I really don't think anyone should scale to that attack, since it is a special technique beyond anything else characters are capable of, and the amp Lindon gets after the Weeping Dragon is killed is pretty unquantifiable. Basically:

Breath attack >>> Amped Weeping Dragon's normal moves >> base Weeping Dragon > Monarchs ≥ Lindon (at the time)

I really think the main scaling value should just be the 5-C calc.

 

[Sonoftanavast9]

Nothing indicates that anything less than the full power of the beam hit the moon. es, it was flailing around randomly and hit it for less than one second, but it still did hit the moon. Its a beam, and cut across it, but it did hit it. It specifically says "like a dagger" meaning it was still in concentrated laser-like beam form, and not a shotgun-like spray. When it says spraying it breath randomly, it essentially means the equivalent of flailing a laser pointer around.

Of course it does, its a beam attack that only barely scraps across the surface of the moon for less than a second while the vast majority of the beam gets sprayed away, if the beam hit dead on the moon and all of it was directly being pumped at the moon the damage would have been obviously higher, with that knowledge in mind it make literally no sense to take the minimal amount of energy from the beam that caused damage to the moon as the total energy of the entire beam

When they say "like a dagger" they are referring to the beam itself they are talking about the damage left on the moon, this damage is analogues to a "Scar"(Chp. 29). No one said it was a "shotgun-like spray" at all because that was never the point, I said it was a stream, which as a beam attack it clearly is, but that the vast majority of it was wasted because it is undenyably obvious that the damage shown was only indicative of a small part of the beam and it would be nonsensical to say that the damage caused by that brief contact with the beam would be = to the damage caused if the full thing hit and centered on the moon until it ended.

Your argument is essentially saying that the damage which would be caused by the entire beam actually hitting the moon dead on for the duration of its attack = the damaged caused by it slicing across it for less than a second which is obviously not the case

Also, when did Northstrider tank this technique? I know he fought it in the past but he got crushed by it, and I don't remember him ever tanking it.

No one says he "tanked it", he just survived it which was stated in Chp 17 of Waybound.

The further context as to why that's relevant is that the breath itself wasn't what he himself considered to have caused him near fatal damage in his encounter with it. This is clearly displayed by the fact that in Dreadgod when he's remembering his encounter with the weeping dragon he states specifically that during that fight it was its lightning attempting to rip out his soul that was the closest he ever came to death and the fact that the breath itself clearly didn't deal him fatal damage because full on directly focuses attacks from the Dragon negate regen so if the breath had dealt him fatal damage he would have been dead before the story started.

I know he fought it in the past but he got crushed by it, and I don't remember him ever tanking it. Its also important to mention that this Weeping Dragon was much weaker than the current one, as the Silent King hadn't been killed yet

That's not relevant to the calc at all because no aspect of the calc uses values that would have changes in the time between its growth in strength or the scaling. The Dreadgods are stronger after the silent kings death but to an unquantifiable degree which isn't relevant as Lindon himself can still effectively fight one of them(with the help of little blue + Orthos doesn't factor into this because they are both only able to contend through borrowing Lindons own power) rather than after the Dragon dies where it takes multiple Monarchs and even multiple attacks from multiple monarchs are treated like a blood nose to them which was made quantifiable by scaling to the multipliers below

And again, Ziel directly said it was beyond any technique he had ever seen from a Monarch or Dreadgod

Which is why they only downscale???

I really don't think anyone should scale to that attack, since it is a special technique beyond anything else characters are capable of, and the amp Lindon gets after the Weeping Dragon is killed is pretty unquantifiable. Basically:

Breath attack >>> Amped Weeping Dragon's normal moves >> base Weeping Dragon > Monarchs ≥ Lindon (at the time)

Yeah no, this is made wrong by the fact that Lindon literally gets the breath attack after killing the Dragon and making his sword

When he tries to use it on the titan and The Titan decides to attempt to tank it so Lindon literally has to go negate its powers temporarily so the breath will be effective (if the breath was a oneshot for the amped titan Lindon wouldn't have needed to negate its ability to defend itself) and keep in mind, the breath would be way more powerful coming from Lindon using the sword than the Dragon itself because not only have I already established the multipliers granted by Dreadgod weapons like the Bow & other high tier stuff like the penance arrows:

operates by combining the users power with that of the bow while Using any external arrows with the bow is stated to redouble the power of the bow which is directly explained to have been doubled its power again(essentially the context of the world "redouble" in that second scan is made clear by the 3rd scan explaining how it "doubles again)

Keep that highlighted part in mind because the Dragon sword works exactly the same way and we know for a fact that the sword is stronger with an empowered Lindon because Monarch+ weapons are themselves amped proportionally to their users own authority (It's why stuff like the an invisibility cloak made by the angler before the ascended was relevant to making gear as high tier as the origin shroud and why Lindon keeps using the sword after ascending)

 

[ObberGobb]

Chapter 17 explicitly says "It is the strongest offensive technique on the planet. It cannot be defended against, only evaded. If you are struck with it you will surely die." Maybe you are referring to another passage I missed, but if not this pretty objectively means no one scales to it.

And it being weaker is incredibly relevant specifically because it is an unquantifiable increase. If you are correct and Northstrider did survive being directly hit by it, then:

1. Not being instantly killed is a pretty terrible feat that really shouldn't warrant downscaling in the first place
2. It is a Weeping Dragon that is much, much, weaker than the one being calced. Malice went from being able to rival the Wandering Titan to being force to flee.
3. You're reason for the damage done to the moon not limiting the power of the attack is that since it was only brief contact, it didn't receive the full power of the beam, correct? If that is the case, then that would also disqualify Northstrider from scaling since we don't know how long he would have even been in contact with the beam.

Simply put, literally everything we know about the about the attack shows that no one scales to it (maybe with the exception of Dreadgods after its death).

1. Yerin explicitly says it is the strongest attack and its impossible to defend against
2. Ziel says it is beyond anything he has seen from a Monarch or Dreadgod
3. Lindon, who at this point was Monarch level, could barely even redirect the attack
4. The calc is for a massively amped Weeping Dragon.

 

[Sonoftanavast9]

Chapter 17 explicitly says "It is the strongest offensive technique on the planet. It cannot be defended against, only evaded. If you are struck with it you will surely die." Maybe you are referring to another passage I missed, but if not this pretty objectively means no one scales to it.

No I'm referring to the part literally in the very next paragraph after this:

"Is that what happened to you?" Ziel asked bluntly
"No. That's what happened to Northstrider." Cladia gave a pained smile at the memory. "It's why everyone thought he was dead for so long."

The full Paragraph is

"It is the strongest offensive technique on the planet. It cannot be defended against, only evaded. If you are struck with it you will surely die."

"Is that what happened to you?" Ziel asked bluntly

"No. That's what happened to Northstrider." Cladia gave a pained smile at the memory. "It's why everyone thought he was dead for so long."

She literally in that exact same conversation mentions that Northstrider got hit by it.

Further more my point on Dreadgod where he mentions his fight with the Dragon and the closes point to death he ever was:

Northstrider rolled his neck before his body could tense up. The Weeping Dragon had struck him a great blow, enough that most of the world had thought him dead for many years. He could still feel the lightning scorching him as it fed, trying to tear his soul out from his body.

It was the closest he had come to a true death since reaching Monarch.

He specifically reminisces about the Dragons lightning feeding on him and trying to rip his soul out being the closest he had been to death rather than the breath itself being what brought him closest to death due to it's sheer attack potency

And it being weaker is incredibly relevant specifically because it is an unquantifiable increase. If you are correct and Northstrider did survive being directly hit by it, then:

1. Not being instantly killed is a pretty terrible feat that really shouldn't warrant downscaling in the first place
2. It is a Weeping Dragon that is much, much, weaker than the one being calced. Malice went from being able to rival the Wandering Titan to being force to flee.
3. You're reason for the damage done to the moon not limiting the power of the attack is that since it was only brief contact, it didn't receive the full power of the beam, correct? If that is the case, then that would also disqualify Northstrider from scaling since we don't know how long he would have even been in contact with the beam.

1. That's not the point, its that the breath didn't deal any full on fatal damage to him itself which is supported by the fact that if it did deal fatal damage to him would have died due to the Dragons regen negating properties & the fact that when remembering these moments what stands out as being deadly to him was the dragons absorption/soul removal rather than the breaths AP itself
2. That's again not relevant because the calc doesn't use any values that would have changed between the Dragons growth in strength so that change is largely irrelevant
3. Unless you've got proof that the beam was veered off course when it hit northstrider this isn't really an argument

Simply put, literally everything we know about the about the attack shows that no one scales to it (maybe with the exception of Dreadgods after its death).

1. Yerin explicitly says it is the strongest attack and its impossible to defend against
2. Ziel says it is beyond anything he has seen from a Monarch or Dreadgod
3. Lindon, who at this point was Monarch level, could barely even redirect the attack
4. The calc is for a massively amped Weeping Dragon.

1. which is why they only downscale
2. Ziels experiences with seeing and experiencing full on Monarch level attacks are limited to what he has actively seen and as we saw from Lindon despite him haven seen more monarch level fights that Ziel, up until Dreadgod they were all holding back so Malice deciding to use her full power was the first time he has seen a true monarch level attack
3. Lindon is not only exhausted but also way below what would be his current peak while just barely using weapons which put extra pressure on his mind and spirit every once in a while throughout the entire fight
4. The calc uses no derivative values from the source material that would have significantly change to reflect a difference between the Dragons amps

 

[ObberGobb]

That is not nearly enough warrant scaling. We have one vague sentence that tells us absolutely nothing about how he did survive. A character narrowly surviving an attack via unknown means offscreen isn't a feat, especially when said attack is directly stated to be impossible to guard against. It is very obvious that the attack is supposed to be leaps and bounds above literally everything, even having him downscale goes against the intent in the writing. He shouldn't scale to that attack whatsoever, it is way too vague.

 

[Sonoftanavast9]

We have a full on statement telling us that he got hit by it, we know he doesn't have any life-saving failsafe's cause those are a very highlighted thing in setting shown by the likes of Malice and Reigan Shen during their other closer combat encounters while we've seen Northstrider in more close battles since then like his Lindon fight where he didn't have any. The assumption that some magic never before scene method which he never used again and was never mentioned every saved him is just conjecture especially when he know he got hit by it head on and complained more about the absorption/soul rip rather than the Attack Potency. It's not "vague" when we know for a fact that he got hit by it, he didn't take fatal damage from it and much later when remembering it he complains more about a different aspect of the Dragons attack being what was deadly rather that it's AP, It's not even like it's direct scaling even, they downscale and either have an "At most".

 

[ObberGobb]

Lets just get others in to discuss. I'm not willing to budge on this at all, but if mods or someone outvote me then I'll be willing to accept it

 

[Sonoftanavast9]

Lets just get others in to discuss. I'm not willing to budge on this at all, but if mods or someone outvote me then I'll be willing to accept it

Alright, I think that's fine since its more productive than us having a back and forth argument here.

 

[ObberGobb]

I think both other fans of the series, and neutral mods, should be called in since its this affects so many characters.

I don't think there is any other scaling disagreement, other than I guess the 3-B, although you're explaination made sense so I'd be good with a "possibly 3-B" rating.

 

[TypicalBattle]

I am uncertain about 3-B as well. The use of the word "Spawn" instead of "Iteration" makes me think it was talking about just the planet.

The reason I don't believe they are talking about the planet of Spawn is that Ozriel's clash with the fiend was already affecting the whole universe and Gerravon is on an FTL ship that had already passed through a portal and into the Void, outside of the reality of Spawn. It would make no sense that his strike would only be affecting a planet. To top it all off at the start of this encounter Gerravon had already spread his power across the infinite distance of the sector and was fighting multiple Abidan simultaneously.

"A dozen more of his Hands clashed against Abidan all over the Sector, but those battles had faded quickly."

I should note that the universe of Oasis is mentioned in a similar way as Spawn.
"Oasis’ central planet was a blue marble beneath Suriel’s feet," It clear that Suriel is referring to the universe not central planet when she uses the iteration's name.

 

[TypicalBattle]

I also would like the bring up the fact that being universal/multiversal in the Willverse is extremely complicated and goes beyond how much power it would take to destroy a normal universe. The bigger the universe's population the stronger connection to the Way it has, the harder it is to destroy. And on top of that people can reinforce their home universes to resist power like Suriel mentions in Dreadgod. And any universe a Judge is fighting in is significantly strengthened by their presence making the universe harder to destroy.

"The powers built into the world supplanted the efforts of her enemies, armoring them against her authority." - Dreadgod Chapter 5

"But with the stabilizing presence of two Judges, and Makiel’s skill and significance at her side, they could see victory." - Bloodline Chapter 18

"The attacks had stopped and the Way was back in full-force, now rippling with strength as the presence of the Abidan Judges reinforced order in the cosmos." - Reaper Chapter 14

"As though waiting for this very moment, the Mad King tore open a hole to the Void. That was still extraordinarily difficult; the Way was powerful here, making it all but impossible to reach out to chaos. But Daruman had been capable of such feats even long ago," - Reaper Chapter 21

Then we have the utter insanity of what happens with Lindon and the Dreadgod weapons at the end of Waybound. They went from being able to shake the entire universe of Cradle to barely affecting a city. That make's Kareia so many orders of magnitude stronger than the universe of Cradle that it's not even funny.

"Lindon was covered in armor. Blue mail made of sapphire scales from the Weeping Dragon warpeped his body, but there was no helmet. A black shield-a replica of the Wondering Titan's shell-orbited him...behind him, liquid blood boiled out to resemble a cloak, rippling in a nonexistence breeze. And above his head was a burning white halo: the crown of the Silent King. Markuth didn't sense the core bindings of the Dreadgods in any of these sacred instruments expect the formation of the flying sword, but nonetheless the truth was clear. He had killed the Dreadgods and made armor from them. All of iteration 110 shook when these treasures were revealed," - Waybound Chapter 34

"So, in an unknown world in the face of an unknown threat, he summoned his armor. Scales of the Weeping Dragon poured over him, crackling with lightning. Wavedancer and its eight clones shone blue-and-gold as they spread out behind him. Three black shells circles around him, a vast white halo covered his head and a cloak of liquid blood fell from his shoulders...The shuttered windows squealed as though the metal were under pressure, dust blasted out from Lindon's feat and the air howled away." - Waybound Chapter 35

Also there are two feats that I stumbled across on a reread for Suriel, one of which I'm not sure how to scale but I feel like you could get some decent mileage out of. While being completely cut-off from the Way, to the point that Suriel's mantle winks out which it didn't do even in the Void, she matches a blow from a weapon that felt like a sealed version of a Judge class weapon and gives a command of transcendent authority, which I think you could do a lot with but im not 100%.

"Pariana could tell the weapon carried far more power than her formations had. It felt like the sealed form of one of the Judges' weapons; it terrified her...The armored man's rifle cracked...and the bullet flashed forward with a thousand times the power he had used to kill Pariana the first time...When the bullet reached her she meat it with her Razor. The sapphire steel hit the missile and sliced through it...The Vroshir had obviously put their entire will behind the bullet, but Suriel cut it as though it were nothing more than physical metal." - Underlord Prolouge

"Still flying through the air, Suriel faced the Vroshir, and her voice echoed with transcendent authority. "Begone," the Judge said...[The Way does not make a Judge strong,] her Presence said." - Underlord Prolouge

 

[ObberGobb]

The reason I don't believe they are talking about the planet of Spawn is that Ozriel's clash with the fiend was already affecting the whole universe and Gerravon is on an FTL ship that had already passed through a portal and into the Void, outside of the reality of Spawn. It would make no sense that his strike would only be affecting a planet. To top it all off at the start of this encounter Gerravon had already spread his power across the infinite distance of the sector and was fighting multiple Abidan simultaneously.

"A dozen more of his Hands clashed against Abidan all over the Sector, but those battles had faded quickly."

I should note that the universe of Oasis is mentioned in a similar way as Spawn.
"Oasis’ central planet was a blue marble beneath Suriel’s feet," It clear that Suriel is referring to the universe not central planet when she uses the iteration's name.

Ok, with the added context of a whole Iteration being referred to by its name like that, I think the feat is good. Do you guys think it should solid 3-B or "At least 4-A, likely 3-B?"

Are there any other 3-B feats we can use for Silverlord Tier characters? The big Silverlord feats I can think of are:

• A Silverlord's attack implying the destruction of most of an Iteration (3-B)
• Lindon shaking the universe (4-A)
• Silverlords wielding weapons comprised of multiple stars (High 4-C)
• Silverlords casually blow up stars (4-C)
• The Class 2 Fiend that Lindon fights having eaten almost all of an Iteration over time (Mostly unquantifiable, but should be good supporting evidence for the more solid 3-B and 4-A feats)

 

[ObberGobb]

Speaking of, do we have any statements on the size of an Iteration? They are clearly universal in size, but do we have anything beyond that? I tried finding statements that they are infinite, but it seems like only the void and the gaps between Iterations are infinite.

 

[TypicalBattle]

Speaking of, do we have any statements on the size of an Iteration? They are clearly universal in size, but do we have anything beyond that? I tried finding statements that they are infinite, but it seems like only the void and the gaps between Iterations are infinite.

There is one statement you can use to imply that iterations are infinite from Suriel and Makiel's battle with the Mad King.

"A black slash, so vast that the concept of size no longer applied. With one swing of the Scythe, the Mad King sliced the Iteration in half. The entire universe split with the blue planet at the center, the two halves drifting apart, the Void stretching between them.” – Bloodline Chapter 18

If you need an attack so big that that it is beyond size itself to cut a universe in half the universe would be infinite in size. You might be able to spin that because the Way exists as a skeleton beneath reality, according to Lindon, and runs through all Iterations, according to Ozriel, that they are all inherently infinite as the Way is infinite.

 

[Sonoftanavast9]

Ok, with the added context of a whole Iteration being referred to by its name like that, I think the feat is good. Do you guys think it should solid 3-B or "At least 4-A, likely 3-B?"

Are there any other 3-B feats we can use for Silverlord Tier characters? The big Silverlord feats I can think of are:

• A Silverlord's attack implying the destruction of most of an Iteration (3-B)
• Lindon shaking the universe (4-A)
• Silverlords wielding weapons comprised of multiple stars (High 4-C)
• Silverlords casually blow up stars (4-C)
• The Class 2 Fiend that Lindon fights having eaten almost all of an Iteration over time (Mostly unquantifiable, but should be good supporting evidence for the more solid 3-B and 4-A feats)

I'm personally fine with either a solid "3-B" rating or a "likely 3-B" rating

I think there's a few other silverlord/fiend feats feats I can remember

• The Angler's time stop working which was stated to have changed something fundamental to the whole iteration though this could just be considered hax/range
• That one no name Vroshir Suriel fought who fired a shot capable of destroying everything in an iteration in the Prologue to Underlord
• That one class two fiend fighting Durandiel that was manifesting its own reality before she nullified its powers

Speaking of, do we have any statements on the size of an Iteration? They are clearly universal in size, but do we have anything beyond that? I tried finding statements that they are infinite, but it seems like only the void and the gaps between Iterations are infinite.

I've compiled a kind of rundown for the cosmology here though I'm unsatisfied with it and plan on recreating or at least reformatting/editing it sooner or later

Sonoftanavast9/Willverse Explanation Blog

vsbattles.fandom.com

The closest things I can remember that could bump an iterations size up to infinite are the following two statements:

The statement when Limit/Harrow dissolve which says:

As Harrow and Limit dissolved and crumbled away into the void, Suriel witnessed once again the death of an Iteration.

The endless darkness of empty space had peeled away first, like black wallpaper peeling away…only to reveal an even deeper hole. The void surrounded them, infinite nothing dotted with swirling balls of color, like a rainbow of fireflies dancing in the night.

Blackflame Chapter 21

and a similar statement from Lindon during his fight with the Class Two fiend

The endless darkness of the universe chilled Lindon. It reminded him of looking into the sky and seeing, knowing on a fundamental level, that there was no hope.

Eithan had done battle against the Mad King. Now it was Lindon's turn.

Waybound Chapter 37

The wiki tends to treat the word "Endless" as being equivalent to infinite while countless isn't so there might be an argument to be had using these statements but the argument presented above about Darumans slash sounds interesting to say the least