Cradle Verse Addition

[ObberGobb]

Yeah, I think those "endless" statements are basically unusable.

But damn, that's actually a pretty solid list of feats. The main is the shot that was going to "scour Iteration 986 clean in a single blast." Based on that, I honestly think that Lindon's last two keys could just be straight up 3-A. There's also a Silverlord feat listed on one of the wikis where the working of a group of Silverlords was able to rewrite the physics of an Iteration.

 

[Sonoftanavast9]

There's also a Silverlord feat listed on one of the wikis where the working of a group of Silverlords was able to rewrite the physics of an Iteration.

Oh yeah it's from Reaper Chp. 14, the attack that Razael casually backhands

 

[ObberGobb]

Also, for Sage/Herald scaling, I want to bring up this statement, which might change the multiplier we use. Malice says that an attack with 1/12 of her Will is enough to match a bunch of Heralds and Sages. Do you think this should mean we should use 1/12 instead of 1/8?

 

[TypicalBattle]

Do you think this should mean we should use 1/12 instead of 1/8?

I think this makes the 1/8 consistent with well established Heralds and Sages who've been at their advancement level for centuries, people like Fury, Red Faith and Xorrus. While newly advanced Sages and Heralds could only require 1/12 of a Monarch's power.


I also think its important to remember that advancement level exists on a scale. There are Underlrods like Lindon capable of one tapping Overlords and then there are people like Ozmanthus who are beyond even that. Nearly killing Shen in one attack while in a state he considers pathetically weak.

 

[The_one_you_least_expect]

Books coming today apparently

 

[Dragoonseraphim]

Books coming today apparently

Nice! Hope you enjoy.

Also I don't have much of an opinion on the 1/12 vs 1/8 thing but if I had to lean towards one it would probably be 1/8.

 

[ObberGobb]

Is everyone good with 3-A for Lindon's last two keys (Full Dreadgod and Post-Ascension)?

 

[Sonoftanavast9]

Also, for Sage/Herald scaling, I want to bring up this statement, which might change the multiplier we use. Malice says that an attack with 1/12 of her Will is enough to match a bunch of Heralds and Sages. Do you think this should mean we should use 1/12 instead of 1/8?

Since the 1/12 is more direct rather than just scaling from the 8 Man Empires armor mechanics I think it's more viable probably

Is everyone good with 3-A for Lindon's last two keys (Full Dreadgod and Post-Ascension)?

Yeah this seems fine

 

[The_one_you_least_expect]

Was not expecting lindon’s mom to get folded by some super vampire

 

[TypicalBattle]

Was not expecting lindon’s mom to get folded by some super vampire

Honestly. Bro broke into a whole ass reality and immediately started throwing hands with children.

 

[Testarossa002]

A friend off-site recommended the book to me a while back.
Stopped around where Lindon and the disciple girl escaped from the academy or something
Might return to reading anyways

Btw, this should be in the general discussion board not a CRT
At least not yet

 

[The_one_you_least_expect]

10 chapters in and the main character is already dead. Damm

 

[Sonoftanavast9]

Ok I'm basically back with a more in depth change to the proposed scaling that might be more agreeable but longer

Spoiler: New Scaling

• Herald/Sage/Archlords: [17.4 Exatons] - Multi-Continental (High 6-A) for scaling to 1/12th Sha Miara's Attack Potency -> Heralds and Sage scale directly to this value while Archlords scale to "At most High 6-A" due to downscaling from them
• Sha Miara: [209.2 Exatons] - Moon level (5-C) obviously for scaling to her own calc, like last time but This will now be Lindons post Silent King Base ->Onto the part that cause that had the most contention prior
• Certain Monarchs: [836 Exatons] - Small Planet level (Low 5-B) I've removed them scaling to the Weeping Dragons breath, Now this new value is based off the Silent King Bow and Penance Arrow Multipliers I brought up before which seemed to not have any really controversy in of themselves
  • Reason for Value - Multipliers applicable to Dreadgod Weapons/Penance, in this case the Silent King Bow/Penance which operates by combining the users power with that of the bow while using any external arrows with the bow is stated to "redouble" the power of the bow which is directly explained to have meant double its power again(essentially the context of the world "redouble" in that second scan is made clear by the 3rd scan expanding on the fact that in this context it means "double again")
  • Lindon: [836 Exatons] - Small Planet level (Low 5-B) with Silent King Bow and Arrow/Penance essentially he'll have Sha Miara's [209 Exatons] as his base while the multipliers of the Bow & Arrow are [836 Exatons]
  • Northstrider: [836 Exatons] - At Most Small Planet level but this only scales to his AP/Striking strength because In terms of AP Northstrider is expressly stated to be way above Sha Miara and he has a direct feat of being able to stop a Penance Arrow from Lindon with the Bow of the arrows of Lindons barrage though obviously it took a lot out of him
  • Akura Malice: [836 Exatons] - At Most Small Planet level but this only scales to her durability with her armor because how she stopped the Arrow was using her armor though the at most is the fact that stopping the arrow itself broke her armor so it is only at most
  • Reigan Shen: [836 Exatons] - Small Planet level but this only scales to his Abidan Shield not his regular durability which stopped the arrows multiple times
• Post Silent King Dreadgods: [836 Exatons] - At least Small Planet level (Low 5-B)What is important here is to analyze here is what occurred after Lindons fight with Northstrider
  • Post Northstrider Lindon: [836 Exatons] - At least Small Planet level (Low 5-B) To lay the groundwork lets acknowledge that after Lindon beating & absorbed Northstrider got stronger to the point he could deliver blows worthy of Northstrider despite being weakened to the point he's below his current peak strength and exhausted + during this time he had temporarily manifested the Dragon which enhances the users strength -> So essentially his base After absorbing Northstrider is at minimum [836 Exatons] - Small Planet level
  • The Post Silent King Dreadgods then scale to this via the Weeping Dragon matching this version of Lindon
• Post Weeping Dragon Dreadgods & Lindon: For this I want to propose 2 options
  • Planet level [1.564 Yottatons] - the Weeping Dragon sword works exactly the same way as the prior Silent King Bow (A 2x boost) and we know for a fact that the sword is stronger than the Weeping dragon itself alongside Empowered Lindon because Monarch+ weapons are amped proportionally to their creators own authority so Lindon with the Sword would be 2x the Weeping Dragons breath [782.427 Zettatons]
  • Large Planet level [3.130 Yottatons] - Basically same logic as above but accounting the Silent King Crown also operating with the same underlined logic as the other Dreadgod weapons (A 2x boost) alongside the Weeping dragon sword

 

[Rakih_Elyan]

• Enhanced Paralysis Inducement: Monarchs can directly order space to be halted[113] as well as issue commands which halt the motion of all things in their vicinity including wind, explosions and even thoughts[114]

Add Spatial, Wind, Explosion and mind manip to this.

• Conceptual Destruction: Monarchs can erase targets at a conceptual level[118]

Add type 3.

 

[Sonoftanavast9]

• Enhanced Paralysis Inducement: Monarchs can directly order space to be halted[113] as well as issue commands which halt the motion of all things in their vicinity including wind, explosions and even thoughts[114]

Add Spatial, Wind, Explosion and mind manip to this.

• Conceptual Destruction: Monarchs can erase targets at a conceptual level[118]

Add type 3.

Aight Done, thanks for the input

 

[PainKiller07]

Oh how far we've come. I started into Cradle after seeing this thread around early-mid 2023, finished a few months ago and I must admit the series carried me through a flux of emotions. Highly recommended for fantasy novel fans in general, especially those who have an interest in Cultivation systems.

 

[ObberGobb]

The Penance Arrow multiplier seems solid, but my one worry is that it creates a bit of circular scaling. Post-Silent King Lindon scales to Northstrider as he could catch his punch, but you have Northstrider scaling to the Penance Arrow.

The redoubled thing is also slightly wrong. He has twelve arrows that redouble his power (which according to the dictionary either means strengthen or to double twice), and then got out a new type of arrow he has only three of that doubled it again. So basically: you are correct that the first arrow is a 4x multiplier, but the second arrow would be a 8x. Reigen Shen immediately fled when Lindon pulled out the arrow. It also has an ability to basically nullify BFR, as it followed Shen. He ultimately stopped it with a Abidan shield he had.

The Monarchs were barely able to even stop the clones of one of Lindon's Penance Arrows, and it took literally everything they had to stop one real one. That's why I think it shouldn't scale to their normal abilities, but instead should be like "5-C, up to At most Low 5-B with Authority". This would also be in line with Heralds being able to do things way beyond what they normally can, like Yerin briefly stopping the Wandering Titan. I think this should be a 1/3 multiplier from the Penance Arrows as it took three of them putting all of their Will into it to stop it, so basically Lindon would be:

5-C [209.2 Exatons], Low 5-B [836.8 Exatons] with Silent King Bow, higher [1.673 Zettatons] with Penance

Monarchs would be:

5-C [209.2 Exatons], up to Low 5-B [557 Exatons] with Authority

 

[Sonoftanavast9]

The Penance Arrow multiplier seems solid, but my one worry is that it creates a bit of circular scaling. Post-Silent King Lindon scales to Northstrider as he could catch his punch, but you have Northstrider scaling to the Penance Arrow.

Yeah I considered that and on closer inspection Northstrider is definitely more powerful than Lindon.

When they do a punch clash Lindon is overpowered and sent flying away and Northstrider notes that the reason he didn't take damage from the clash was because it was on his Dreadgod arm(so that arm probably has a higher durability than the rest of Lindons body) and the only case where Lindon severely injured Northstrider without the penance/bow was with his Blackflame Madra but that was specifically due to the insane level of Void Authority imbued into it (which is more hax feat than anything because Void Authority imbued into Lindons attack grant them Existence Erasing properties). Though the main indicator is that of Lindon was on par with Northstrider in terms of strength he wouldn't have gone through the whole process of tricking him during their fight and would have just fought straight up.

Everything else in you post seems fine to me, so I'll update the sandbox in a bit

 

[ObberGobb]

Maybe Lindon should get an "At most" or something? I still think that all the Monarchs should scale to Sha Miara's value, but admittedly they do have fluctuations in raw power, its just that those gaps are unquantifiable and relatively small. Like Northstrider is stronger than Sha, but she could still harm him and defend against his attacks. That version of Lindon is also shown to be way above Heralds and Sages and closer to Monarchs, as in addition to his feat against Northstrider, he also beat Malice with help, and at one point Reigan Shen basically said he considered him to be a Monarch.

 

[Sonoftanavast9]

Maybe Lindon should get an "At most" or something? I still think that all the Monarchs should scale to Sha Miara's value, but admittedly they do have fluctuations in raw power, its just that those gaps are unquantifiable and relatively small. Like Northstrider is stronger than Sha, but she could still harm him and defend against his attacks. That version of Lindon is also shown to be way above Heralds and Sages and closer to Monarchs, as in addition to his feat against Northstrider, he also beat Malice with help, and at one point Reigan Shen basically said he considered him to be a Monarch.

Tbh I think Sha Miara can harm him mainly because of how her techniques work, most of it is purely spiritual and since it's an adaptation of pure madra it inherently bypass's spiritual resistance even of stronger opponents much easier + her main use of it is taking control of and reflecting attacks back with added power but yeah that seems appropriate also if we take the Bow to be 4x then would the Sword formation also be the same

 

[ObberGobb]

So Lindon's keys can look like this:

Underlord Sage | Overlord Sage | True Sage | Post-Silent King | Post-Weeping Dragon | Full Dreadgod | Post-Ascension

At least Low 6-B, possibly High 6-A | High 6-A | High 6-A | 5-C, Low 5-B with Silent King Bow, higher with Penance | TBD | Likely 3-A | 3-A

I say TBD because I don't know if that calc has been approved by calc group members yet, none of the replies to it really gave a definitive "yes." Could you also explain the scaling you have for it? I don't really get why you are saying we know the sword is 2x stronger than the Weeping Dragon's breath.'

Also, there is another potentially good feat I'd like to have calced: Northstrider's punch shook the planet like a drum. I think we should really find some way to quantify the size of the planet in order to calc this feat. It could be a good supporting Tier 6 feat, and depending on how big the planet ends up being might even end up in Tier 5. We should try and gather any and all statements that might give us a sense of how much bigger Cradle is than Earth.

 

[Sonoftanavast9]

I say TBD because I don't know if that calc has been approved by calc group members yet, none of the replies to it really gave a definitive "yes." Could you also explain the scaling you have for it? I don't really get why you are saying we know the sword is 2x stronger than the Weeping Dragon's breath.'

Alright, Basically Monarch+ weapons made with authority increase in power proportionally to their creator so Lindon being more powerful than the Weeping Dragon when he made the sword would inherently make the sword stronger than the dragon (Though this is to an unknown degree, I'm mainly mentioning it for added context). The main reason for the Weeping Dragons Sword being a 4x multiplier is that it operates the same as the Silent King bow (which we have agreed on that multiplier for) in that both weapons work by the user Joining their madra with it so the multiplier would be applicable to the Sword as well.

What I was proposing for the Post-Weeping Dragon states were

At most 5-B, 5-A with Weeping Dragon Sword Formation

Also, there is another potentially good feat I'd like to have calced: Northstrider's punch shook the planet like a drum. I think we should really find some way to quantify the size of the planet in order to calc this feat. It could be a good supporting Tier 6 feat, and depending on how big the planet ends up being might even end up in Tier 5. We should try and gather any and all statements that might give us a sense of how much bigger Cradle is than Earth.

Yeah That's a pretty Good one, right I'll start looking through the books again for more info on what can be used to gain the planets general size

 

[Rakih_Elyan]

Does Cradle have any continuation?

 

[Sonoftanavast9]

Does Cradle have any continuation?

The final book in the series just dropped this year so not any that we know as of now but all the authors other books take place in the same shared multiverse as Cradle but unlike Cradle the rest of them are a lot more self contained though Elder Empire in particular has a very notable crossover towards its final book

 

[Sonoftanavast9]

Alright I just want to get something clear what's the consensus on EOS Lindons states

Specifically his Final Dreadgod and Ascended Keys, I can see 3 possible interpretations

• The initial suggestion was [At least 4-A | At least 4-A, likely 3-B]
  • Based on Lindon shaking the entire iteration when unsealing his power in combination with his Dreadgod weapons while iterations are at bare minimum universes [4-A] | Then Lindon being capable of defeating a Class Two Fiend of Chaos which are being that even Silverlords call for backup despite Silverlords like Gerravon being capable of destroying 'most' of an iteration [3-B]
• In this thread further discussion lead to the suggestion of [Likely 3-A | 3-A]
  • Based on taking Lindons initial feat of shaking the entire iteration when unsealing his power in combination with his Dreadgod weapons as [Likely 3-A] | Scaling Class Two Fiends, and subsequently Lindon, to other Vroshir/Silverlord feats like the unnamed Vroshir firing off a round that could destroy everything in an iteration etc.
• On further thought there's another possible suggestion [Low 2-C | Low 2-C]
  • Someof the feats already listed above could be recontextualized by considering "Iteration" in the context of being Timelines/Space-Times which can be seen from the following
    • Iterations as Realities: Iterations are all separate realities with separate flows of time and temporal laws, the relationship between space, time and reality is displayed when beings cut through reality itself into the way which lays beyond reality in a process involving cutting beyond space and time which are inherent components of reality, furthermore the destruction of an Iteration is the destruction of both it's space and time while multiple iterations fusing is a collision of space and time
    • Last Horizon Statements: As of "The Engineer" we know that the Last Horizon series takes place in Fathom (if you remember this is the Iterations where the Abidan Judges fought the Mad King) and within the last Horizon their iteration is specifically known to be a Timeline (For added context the MC of the series casts a spell intended to allow him to gain some the memories from unsubstantial 'possibilities of his futures' but the spells effects lead him to question whether these were fully manifested alternate universes or simply possibilities and although this is left somewhat ambiguous, initially at least, we have since gotten direct WOG that these possibilities are alternate universes and by the second book they are referred to as Timelines)

I don't personally think the last part is viable for scaling Lindon (I don't feels strongly about so my mind can be changed) but it's relevant for scaling Ozriel, Daruman, Suriel etc.(people with direct feats of affecting Iterations as a whole + The entirety of the Way) The distinction is whether or not were interpreting Lindons feat as him affecting the 3D space of an iteration when he shakes it or affecting the whole 4D spacetime which if were going for the former using the specific Vroshir scans for the 3-A part due to them destroy "Everything in an iteration" rather than the iterations structure itself (same for the scours it clean statement) which I think is more consistent.

I think his Final Dreadgod Key should be [At least 4-A, likely 3-A] while his Ascended Key should just be [3-A] for the reasons above.

Once this is agreed upon here I think I will make a separate thread for adding Lindons profile & the verse page right now

 

[The_one_you_least_expect]

Lindon post ghost water be like:

 

[ObberGobb]

Each Iteration is definitely a Low 2-C structure, but I don't think Silverlords scale to that value since I think their only feat is of destroying the stuff in an Iteration, so they'd be 3-A. I think both of Lindon's two final keys would be 3-A, as Li Markuth has techniques that he mentioned he only used in combat with Silverlords. This implies that he has fought Silverlords before, and is relatively confident in his ability to fight them. Since Lindon stomped him, he should be Silverlord tier too.

 

[Sonoftanavast9]

Each Iteration is definitely a Low 2-C structure, but I don't think Silverlords scale to that value since I think their only feat is of destroying the stuff in an Iteration, so they'd be 3-A. I think both of Lindon's two final keys would be 3-A, as Li Markuth has techniques that he mentioned he only used in combat with Silverlords. This implies that he has fought Silverlords before, and is relatively confident in his ability to fight them. Since Lindon stomped him, he should be Silverlord tier too.

Alright with that it's settled, I've made the appropriate changes to the Lindon Sandbox and will be posting the addition thread for that today