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Cradle Verse Addition

I made a few clarifications for the general sacred artists abilities:
Click to expand...
Also I noticed you used the formatting for the powers/abilities section from my sample profile for the post sage Lindon so I want to also add that I did one for Yerin as well

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Sonoftanavast9/Sandbox/Yerin Arelius

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While I finish up the profiles I have now, do you want to work on some other ones? Are there any characters you think deserve profiles that I haven't made yet? I have: Lindon, Yerin, Eithan, Northstrider, Malice, Wandering Titan, Bleeding Phoenix, Silent King, Suriel, and Mad King.
 
Yeah That sounds good. I can probably do Charity, Mercy, Red faith, Reigan Shen and maybe Ziel(though He's the one I'm least prepared for) and also probably little blue & Orthos
 
Damn this is pretty good supporting evidence for our current Underlord rating as well as a good replacement for the ratings of Golds.

The Cassias feat of shattering a stone being used felt out of place cause he was severely injured and barely able to walk at the time
 
Yeah, it didn't feel right that it was 9-B from Iron all the way to Truegold. I'm not sure what to do about Lowgolds though.
 
I have to say, this verse is ending up much more powerful than I had expected. When I first started doing this, I though it would be like 9-B for Golds, 8-B for Underlords, and 7-A Monarchs
 
ObberGobb said:
While I finish up the profiles I have now, do you want to work on some other ones? Are there any characters you think deserve profiles that I haven't made yet? I have: Lindon, Yerin, Eithan, Northstrider, Malice, Wandering Titan, Bleeding Phoenix, Silent King, Suriel, and Mad King.
Click to expand...
Maybe Sha Miara ?
 
How Large would you estimate the weeping dragon at since Northstrider says it still appears gigantic despite being hundreds of miles away

A serpent’s coils broke the ocean of clouds. The sapphire scales shimmered with their own internal light, and though the Dreadgod was hundreds of miles away, it still appeared titanic.

-Dreadgod Chp. 3 page 68
Click to expand...
 
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Sonoftanavast9/Sandbox/Reigan Shen

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I'm working on the Reigan Shen profile and I've basically done everything except for the states. How are we handling that will we wait for the calc on the Ocean thing to be done or should I just fill in the stats section with stuff we already have until when the Calc is done then we can replace it

Also for speed aren't we using the Lightning scaling?
 
The ocean thing is almost certainly going to be High 6-A, so I'd just put that for all the stats until we get the result. If it somehow isn't High 6-A, we can just change it after.

As for lightning scaling, I think so.
 
We need an estimate for the planet/ocean size for the creation feat, since creating an average ocean is around High 6-C.
But vaporizing an ocean (even a small one) is High 6-A for sure.
 
So, does anyone take any issue with using Suriels statement to get the planet size and then using that to calc for the Trackless Sea being vaporized?
 
I decided to Calc the Sha Miara feat myself but instead of using the sea part I used the nation part. Basically I used the size of sacred valley we already accepted to use(300 miles) to get the size of the Ninecloud nation because Suriel gave use how many times larger it is than Sacred Valley. The results came out as moon level (5-C), I'll put it for evaluation tomorrow morning

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Cradle Series: Sha Miara Destroys some places

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I think area would be better for the country size. A rough estimate of the size of the country would then be:

It has an area of 1.82*10^5 km^2, 394x that is 7.17*10^7. That would then make the radius of the Ninecloud Country 4777 km.
 
ObberGobb said:
I think area would be better for the country size. A rough estimate of the size of the country would then be:

It has an area of 1.82*10^5 km^2, 394x that is 7.17*10^7. That would then make the radius of the Ninecloud Country 4777 km.
Click to expand...
Aight, I'll do it when I have enough free time I'm also probably gonna do the ocean one as well.

I've been held up by a lot of University stuff recently and I was also working on something else:

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Sonoftanavast9/Sandbox/Ozriel

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Basically this sandbox is just a placeholder for a few things mostly in relation to the Judges & in particular Ozriel.

The first 2 sections might influence a the tiering while the rest are just the scans & abilities that Ozriel should have on his profile. Give it a look through and tell me what you think.

When I get enough time to do the calcs I'll also start the profile creation for Charity, Mercy, Ziel & Red Faith. I've more or less finished the Reigan Shen own profile but I wanna finish the calcs before adding the tiers
 
Any feedback on the sandbox above? Like any reservations you have for anything outlined above in it for the tier shift for Judge & Judge tier individuals or any of the powers listed.

Some of the ability stuff that I outlined besides the tiering stuff affect both Daruman & Suriel. Specifically the change from both of them having Mid godly regeneration to High godly and the addition of the appropriate scans for that:
Regeneration (High-Godly; Darumans regeneration allows him to come back from the erasure of his body[54], soul, mind, concept[58][69][51][52] as well as being erased from causality which when done makes it so a target never existed[1][57])
Click to expand...
Suriel would scale to this since she is stated to have the greatest authority for Healing and restoration.
 
I agree with both 2-C and High-Godly regen. however, I think that under Daruman's weaknesses, there should be a mention that the High-Godly regen can be bypassed by killing him enough times. Its mentioned that the more times Daruman brings himself back, the weaker his existence becomes, with Suriel thinking that they could potentially kill him permanently that way.
 
ObberGobb said:
I agree with both 2-C and High-Godly regen. however, I think that under Daruman's weaknesses, there should be a mention that the High-Godly regen can be bypassed by killing him enough times. Its mentioned that the more times Daruman brings himself back, the weaker his existence becomes, with Suriel thinking that they could potentially kill him permanently that way.
Click to expand...
I actually have a bit to say about that as well and have a bit of stuff I forgot to add to the sandbox.

Basically when they say his existence is becomes shakier they're talking about his "Origin of existence" which is a fundamental aspect of a person in the form of who they are recognized to be within the way. Judge tier beings can basically affect the origin of existence so when they kill him they are repeatedly damaging the origin of his existence.

His "Origin of Existence" constitutes Immortality Type 9 since it exist separate from where he is physically attacked in the way itself and when they kill him they are basically damaging it.
 
Yeah, I'm just saying that it should be explained that it is indeed possible to kill him even though he has High-Godly regen. Also, I think he should have Type 8 Immortality, as it mentioned that it was his armor anchoring him. How many immortality types would that be for him then? Types 1, 2, 3, 4, 8, and 9. What about Type 5?
 
ObberGobb said:
Types 1, 2, 3, 4, 8, and 9. What about Type 5?
Click to expand...
Yeah Daruman will have immortality Type 1, 2, 3, 4, 8(if we use the armor statement) & 9

Type 5 requires some kind of statement of him either
  • Neither being alive or dead at the same time
  • Transcending life and death or Transcending death
  • Not having a concept of death
But I haven't found any statement like that so far

For the explanation it should be in his weakness section and written as something along the lines of:
Weakness: Despite his regeneration Daruman can be killed if his "Origin of Existence" is repeatedly damaged an unspecified amount of times
Click to expand...
 
Upon Looking through the abidan archives website a bit I found some scans:

1) The strongest Sacred Artists on cradle likely Sages/Heralds/Monarchs have resistance to matter manipulation on at least a molecular level
6lcd1up.png
2) This scan can probably work as evidence for Class 1 Fiends like the Great elders and Oth'kimeth having Type 5 immortality so Ozriels Scythe would have Type 5 immortality Negation as he can kill Oth'kimeth
9D0etWH.png
 
It looks like a calc member has evaluated the above calc and found the low end acceptable so we can start finalizing the AP & Durability sections of the relevant profiles:

The basic structure of the tiering would be like before with:
  • Monarchs/Dreadgods: 2.59210833e+28 Joules or 6.20 Exatons; Multi-Continental (High 6-A)
  • Sages/Heralds/Archlords: Scale to 1/8th the Monarch value [6.20 Exatons/8 = 774.41 Petatons; Multi-Continental (High 6-A)]
We then basically have the ratings separated into those that are At least or At most any of the two value based on specifically how an individual character scales to the feats
Sha Miara:
Attack Potency: Small Country level (Restricted to the peak of Underlord) | Multi-Continental level (Is powerful enough to evaporate an ocean on Cradle.), far higher with Authority (Heralds can enhance their strength with Authority). Can ignore durability with various techniques.

Durability: Small Country level (Took multiple attacks from Eithan) | Multi-Continental level
Click to expand...
Northstrider:
Attack Potency: At least Multi-Continental level (Vastly superior to Sha Miara in terms of raw force to the point where he would annihilate her. Can hold his own against the Bleeding Phoenix, although admittedly weaker than it and punched the Bleeding Phoenix out of the sky hard enough that it would have destroyed the entire Desolate Wilds had it not caught itself.), far higher with Authority (Heralds can enhance their strength with Authority). Can ignore durability with various techniques.

Durability: At least Multi-Continent level (Withstood attacks from the Bleeding Phoenix)
Click to expand...
Akura Malice:
Attack Potency: At least Multi-Continental level, higher with Akura Armor(While ultimately weaker, she can fight and hold her own against the Bleeding Phoenix and the Wandering Titan. Comparable to Northstrider), far higher with Authority (Heralds can bolster their physical power with Authority). Can ignore durability with various techniques.

Durability: At least Multi-Continent level (Withstood attacks from the Bleeding Phoenix and Wandering Titan), higher with Akura Armor
Click to expand...
Reigan Shen:
Attack Potency: Multi-Continental level (Weakened severely by spending months in the suppression field) | At Least Multi-Continental level with Tiberian Arelius Remnant (Comparable to Reigan Shen himself having the power of a true Monarch remnant) | At least Multi-Continental level (Comparable to Northstrider to the point he considers him "No easy Opponent"), far higher with Authority (Heralds can bolster their physical power with Authority). Can ignore durability with various techniques.

Durability: Multi-Continental level (Took multiple hits from Overlord Yerin), At least Multi-Continental level with Tiberian Arelius Remnant (Previously fought non weakened Shen) | At least Multi-Continental level (Took a direct punch from Northstrider)
Click to expand...
Wandering Titan:
Attack Potency: At least Multi-Continent level (More powerful than any Monarch. Fought for an extended period of time against Akura Malice. Should be comparable to the Bleeding Phoenix) | At least Multi-Continental (Far more powerful than before after the death of the Slumbering Wraith. Easily defeated Akura Malice who was supported by a group of eight Heralds and Sages). Can ignore durability with various techniques.

Durability: At least Multi-Continental level (Repeatedly took direct attacks from the likes of Northstrider and Akura Malice)
Click to expand...
Bleeding Phoenix:
Attack Potency: At least Multi-Continental level (Superior to any Monarch. Fought against Malice and Northstrider simultaneously. Would have destroyed the entire Desolate Wilds had it crashed) | At least Multi-Continental (Far more powerful than before after the deaths of both the Slumbering Wraith and the Silent King) | Varies (Each Blood Shadow possesses a different degree of strength, depending on how much their host feeds them) up to Multi-Continental level (Red Faith's Blood Shadow managed to reach Herald by itself, and could fight him evenly) | Likely Wall level (Bloodspawn can effortlessly rip apart normal humans and pose a threat to even Sacred Valley Irons). Can ignore durability with various techniques.

Durability: At least Multi-Continental level (Took a direct punch from Northstrider unharmed as well as fought both him and Akura at the same time)
Click to expand...
Weeping Dragon:
Attack Potency: At least Multi-Continental level (Superior to any Monarch. Fought and severely injured Northstrider) | At least Multi-Continental (Far more powerful than before after the deaths of both the Slumbering Wrath and the Silent King). Can ignore durability with various techniques.

Durability: At least Multi-Continental level (More powerful than any Monarch. Previously fought and defeated Northstrider)
Click to expand...
Silent King:
Attack Potency: Multi-Continental level physically (Considered the physically weakest of the Dreadgods. Was unable to physically overpower Sage Lindon without it's madra), At least Multi-Continent level with certain techniques (Its techniques matched those of Akura Malice) | Up to Multi-Continental level when operating through projections and mind control (Created one illusory projection of itself for each Herald and Sage on the battlefield, and believed that just those projections would be able to overwhelm them. Able to completely take over the minds of several Heralds and Sages at once), up to at least Multi-Continent level with full army (Its armies were enough to protect it from Akura Malice. Malice believed she would lose a prolonged battle against its forces, even when she was supported by Sages and Heralds. The Silent King and his army was enough to match the combined forces of Akura Malice, Northstrider, and Emriss Silentborn). Can ignore durability with various techniques.

Durability: Multi-Continental level (Survived but was harmed by an attack from Lindon), far higher with Technique based defense's
Click to expand...

We should also start working on the Lifting strength feats for the characters. One of the more prominent one would be Lindon lifting all of Shatterspine castle which is noted as being the size of an entire city
 
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So I think

At least Multi-Continent level for Monarchs/Dreadgods/Lindon

Multi-Continent level for Heralds/Sages

And for Archlords, I would be fine with either "At most" or just a flat rating. At that point, they would be downscaling from characters pretty high into High 6-A, so they are pretty much certainly High 6-A themselves. They don't have many feats on that level, but Archlord Eithan could somewhat kinda hold his own against Reigan Shen a bit, and iirc it was implied he mainly lost due to Sage abilities and not an AP gap.
 
ObberGobb said:
So I think

At least Multi-Continent level for Monarchs/Dreadgods/Lindon

Multi-Continent level for Heralds/Sages

And for Archlords, I would be fine with either "At most" or just a flat rating. At that point, they would be downscaling from characters pretty high into High 6-A, so they are pretty much certainly High 6-A themselves. They don't have many feats on that level, but Archlord Eithan could somewhat kinda hold his own against Reigan Shen a bit, and iirc it was implied he mainly lost due to Sage abilities and not an AP gap.
Click to expand...
Yeah this works fine. Archlords have always been portrayed as basically being able to hold thier own against sage/herald tiers but never really dominate them ever in a fight even when there are multiple
 
I've created a relatively comprehensive Cosmology Blog
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Sonoftanavast9/Willverse Explanation Blog

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I've also compiled relevant feats arranged based off the Tiering in the blog:
Low 2-C Feats(Universal+)
-Ozriels Scythe is stated to be capable of erasing iterations
-Ozriel would have destroyed Cradle if he attacked Daruman (though he's repeatedly stated to be weaker and was using a weaker scythe)
-Razael casually backhands an attack that could alter the physics of an entire iteration
-Daruman was casually erasing cradle by simply existing there
2-C Feats(Low Multiverse level)
-Ozriel and Makiel fighting destabilizes multiple iterations
-Gadrael prevents the collision of multiple Iterations
2-B Feats(Multiverse level)
-A fiend comparable to Ozriel could cause a System collapse
2-A Feats(Multiverse level+)
This could potentially apply as hax potency of 4-D Multiversal+ rather than Attack Potency
-Daruman Destroys all possible futures of cradle causing there to be no future
-Ozriel seemingly recreates all possible futures
Possible Low 1-C Feats(Low Complex Multiversal)
This is completely dependent on the acceptance of the Way & Void as Low 1-C structures
-Daruman distorts the entire way
-Judges are pillars supporting order and structure which is what the Way is made of
-Ozriel shakes the Void passively
-Ozriel vs Urg'naut affect the whole Void (An Elder Empire feat that was sent to me by a friend. Since I haven't finished the books myself I'm not 100% sure about using it until I have finished it)
Click to expand...
 
I'm neutral about the Low 1-C stuff because tbh I'm not an expert on Tier 1, but 2-B seems solid. I'm leaning towards disagreeing about 2-A though, it seems a bit vague about what specifically they are doing regarding the futures, so I don't think it should scale to normal AP.
 
ObberGobb said:
I'm leaning towards disagreeing about 2-A though, it seems a bit vague about what specifically they are doing regarding the futures, so I don't think it should scale to normal AP.
Click to expand...
I think it's really not that vague, Malices technique is basically just the medium by which she see's the future. It appears to her in the form of an endless space with statues representing futures(she gets more detailed information by looking at the statues), Daruman destroys all possible future which in her vision breaks the statues and malice specifically states that there's no future. We know this is true cause Emiris who views the future more normally (she's the one that was instructing Lindon) also tries to view it and sees nothing because there simply isn't any futures anymore. Ozriels who has the same authority over fate as Makiel then recreates the futures.

I completely agree with you and honestly do not think it's applicable for AP at all though it seems more fitting for classifying the range/potency of their fate hax(which would be 4-D Multiversal+) so it shouldn't be listed in the AP section at all
 
Do you want to handle the pages for Suriel and Daruman (and any other Abidan you want) while I finish up the Cradle-based characters?
 
I still think we should wait to post them until Waybound comes out, but it would be good to have them ready
 
ObberGobb said:
Do you want to handle the pages for Suriel and Daruman (and any other Abidan you want) while I finish up the Cradle-based characters?
Click to expand...
Yeah I can probs do that but I also wanna the Ozriel part of Eithans profile causes I've already kinda gotten started on that
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Sonoftanavast9/OzrielSandbox

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ObberGobb said:
I still think we should wait to post them until Waybound comes out, but it would be good to have them ready
Click to expand...
Yep that's a solid plan. It's just about one and a half month till waybound releases so It's not to long of a wait
 
Are you good with adding Ozriel to Eithan's profile whenever your are finished?
 
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