Could this be used for an upgrade? (Spy x Family Chapter 65)

[Nullflowerblush]

I have not read the thread, so possibly the calculation is currently rejected

The calculation is accepted, as the math is sound. However, its application is what is currently in question.

Given the fact that all of her other feats are low to mid-end 9-B (hell, her car kicking feat may even be 9-B), 8-B is far from a consistent rating. Logically, her random Massively Hypersonic+ rating would be just as invalid, considering the two go hand-in-hand and the fact that she only has one other supersonic feat.

One could make the sound argument that since she regularly holds back, 8-B and Massively Hypersonic+ would be fair games; however, there have been several instances in which Yor has gone out, either because she was drunk and logically could not control her own strength (i.e., both "battles" with Loid) or because she was being genuinely challenged (i.e., battle on the boat); moreover, there are also instances in which Yor probably has not gone out but was also not pulling any punches, like when she kicked the terrorist's car into a street lamp. And once again, that would suggest that Yor is holding herself back by tens of thousands of times and is literally a god, which evidently is not the case.

 

[Maverick_Zero_X]

Are the Tier 9 feats depicted as Yor's limits / does she struggle when performing them? Or does she have Anti-Feats?

If no pulling the outlier card seems odd.

 

[lyric]

there have been several instances in which Yor has gone out, either because she was drunk and logically could not control her own strength (i.e., both "battles" with Loid) or because she was being genuinely challenged (i.e., battle on the boat); moreover, there are also instances in which Yor probably has not gone out but was also not pulling any punches, like when she kicked the terrorist's car into a street lamp. And once again, that would suggest that Yor is holding herself back by tens of thousands of times and is literally a god, which evidently is not the case.

Well there's narrative precedence for the battle on the boat that she was mentally nerfed as affirmed by the newest chapter where she almost goes back to that mindset. But even then while she was struggling, at that point she'd been up for over 2 days protecting that lady. (so if anything thats the outlier)

The drunk yor point is a stronger one to use to say she's going all out. But even then can we assume she's going all out? I'd say she was but I think it's just inconsistent to her later showings against loid. I'm not gonna harp on the "she gets stronger" thing since I dont wanna get into that.

Yor was definitely holding back in the car feat since she didnt wanna kill the guy as she called the police to arrest him in the next panel. I think there is more to say that she is holding back massively than not.

Yor just has inconsistent feats against people. The only time we can for sure, 100% say she went all out is against fiona where she cut through the ball and fiona couldnt even see the motion of her swinging. Other times are more debatable, but drunk yor probably went all out.

Are the Tier 9 feats depicted as Yor's limits / does she struggle when performing them? Or does she have Anti-Feats?

If no pulling the outlier card seems odd.

They're never depicted as a limit nor does she struggle with those feats. But drunk Yor not being massively above loid might imply shes not that far above tier 9 or even at the peak of tier 9.

Only two ways I can think of to argue higher than tier 9 is to say Yor always massively holds back and since she was told in this chapter "to have fun" then she finally just didnt hold back and we got this feat literally only one page after the "just have fun yor" statement. or you could argue Yor has gotten stronger which is somewhat implied. I can't think of anything else

 

[RandomGuy2345]

So is Yor getting downgraded to 9-B?

 

[Envy]

is there no speed increase in the latest chapter?

 

[Kisaragi_Megumi]

@First_Witch Damn i readed the whole thread and looks like your temper isn't good recently
Anyway regarding the thread, what are we waiting right now again?

 

[GodlyCharmander]

The speed should be legit. I'm waiting for DT to answer.

 

[Mazdoesstuff]

The speed should be legit. I'm waiting for DT to answer.

If the speed is legit can’t you just calculate how much energy her punches or kicks would generate when moving at a certain speed?

 

[GodlyCharmander]

If the speed is legit can’t you just calculate how much energy her punches or kicks would generate when moving at a certain speed?

That's calc stacking.

 

[Mazdoesstuff]

That's calc stacking.

Pretty sure finding KE from speed is allowed tho

 

[lyric]

That's calc stacking.

Pretty sure finding KE from speed is allowed tho

Sometimes speed can be used to find KE but it has to follow these parameters. As long as it isn't inconsistent or contradicted by other stuff. Also calc stacking isn't even inherently flawed as stated in the calc stacking page.

If you do calculate AP from this speed it may be inconsistent tho. Although Yor doesnt seem to have any inconsistencies that I can think of

 

[Nullflowerblush]

If the speed is valid, how come the Attack Potency isn't?

 

[GodlyCharmander]

If the speed is valid, how come the Attack Potency isn't?

Because you cannot KE anything below 200kg. Very stupid rules, blame Marvel.

 

[First_Witch]

KLOL literally said within this thread that KE is invalid if it is below 200kg. Like, you guys were there then KLOL shot down Charmanders calc.

Yor is going back to 9B if all recalcs have been accepted. If a perfectly acceptable higher tier calc comes around to which Yor undoubtly scales, we can rediscuss this, but until then, this thread served its purpose

 

[RandomGuy2345]

KLOL literally said within this thread that KE is invalid if it is below 200kg. Like, you guys were there then KLOL shot down Charmanders calc.

Yor is going back to 9B if all recalcs have been accepted. If a perfectly acceptable higher tier calc comes around to which Yor undoubtly scales, we can rediscuss this, but until then, this thread served its purpose

I might be able to pit Yor against some of the WWE wrestlers again...

 

[GodlyCharmander]

It's not invalid, it's just not accepted by the wiki. The feat and the math are legit, it's just put against a very arbitrary rule.

But on the other hand, you're right, the calc is rejected on the AP section. But the speed is still very much a thing that needs to be discussed.

 

[RandomGuy2345]

But on the other hand, you're right, the calc is rejected on the AP section

The 9-B calc was rejected, or are you talking about something else?

 

[First_Witch]

It's not invalid, it's just not accepted by the wiki. The feat and the math are legit, it's just put against a very arbitrary rule.

But on the other hand, you're right, the calc is rejected on the AP section. But the speed is still very much a thing that needs to be discussed.

It leads to the same results Charmander, it is unusable until the KE rule is removed.

What speed are you reffering to, the Volleyball one?

 

[KobsterHope07]

It's not invalid, it's just not accepted by the wiki. The feat and the math are legit, it's just put against a very arbitrary rule.

But on the other hand, you're right, the calc is rejected on the AP section. But the speed is still very much a thing that needs to be discussed.

So have you updated the your calc to include the 9-B+ calculation method KLOL mentioned

 

[Mazdoesstuff]

If you need 200KG in order to use KE, I feel like that would downgrade a number of verses

 

[Kisaragi_Megumi]

If you need 200KG in order to use KE, I feel like that would downgrade a number of verses

@KLOL506 Are you still around here? Regarding what Maz said..

 

[GodlyCharmander]

DT confirmed throwing and projectiles don't fall under the KE rule, 8-B Yor.

 

[First_Witch]

Welp, that was a whole page of discussion wasted then

 

[Shadyboi0]

damn. Still gets packed up by fodder Bayformers

 

[GodlyCharmander]

Yor solos Hunter x Hunter, I'm tilted

 

[Kisaragi_Megumi]

Goemon vs Yor can be happening, nice!

 

[RandomGuy2345]

Bro 8-B Yor is a thing now?

 

[Baken384]

Bro 8-B Yor is a thing now?

Yor can clap Pillar Men cheeks in one punch now

 

[RandomGuy2345]

Johnny Test vs Yor...

 

[Kisaragi_Megumi]

Bro 8-B Yor is a thing now?

YES

 

[Shadyboi0]

DS optimus finna bodyslam

 

[FantaRin_The_First]

YES

Nice! Now I can have Mukuro/Junko (Via Monokuma) fight Yor!

 

[Qawsedf234]

Her arm speed is MHS (Mach 441).

No. You are not allowed to get arm or movement speed for the launch speed of a projectile.

• Do not calculate speed from kinetic energy: The kinetic energy an object was calculated to possess, in any way whatsoever, should not be considered as related through its speed. While the formula technically can be used to relate those values in both direction this is disregarded in practice. One reason for this is that fiction in general differentiates between the attack potency and the speed of a character. Another reason is that it returns unrealistic values, as even a Small City level+ punch would already have Relativistic+ speed. Out of similar reasons mass should also not be calculated from it

There is no speed upgrade here.

 

[Qawsedf234]

They go under the presumption that the kicking speed for yor in the 9-A calc is far too low (which it is).

The calc is wrong because the basis of the calc is wrong. It uses the speed of her kick to get a timeframe which isn't possible as she completed her kick. She also redirected the car, which requires less energy unless she altered its movement vector by more then 45 degrees or so.

The reason the calc is still up was because I was waiting on the anime to come along to properly downgrade it. Though if this is accepted as a non-gag feat then it doesn't really matter much.

 

[Qawsedf234]

If the speed is legit can’t you just calculate how much energy her punches or kicks would generate when moving at a certain speed?

You'd only able to get KE for whatever limb preformed the move in that scene. Otherwise it's calc stacking.

 

[GodlyCharmander]

No. You are not allowed to get arm or movement speed for the launch speed of a projectile.

There is no speed upgrade here.

Yeah, tell me where did I use the Kinetic Energy of the volleyball to get the speed.

Read carefully, I used conservation of momentum, which only requires the mass of the object, the velocity of the object, and the mass of the user's arm.

 

[Qawsedf234]

Yeah, tell me where did I use the Kinetic Energy of the volleyball to get the speed.

You're trying to get Yor's speed from the force needed to launch the ball into outer space. That is explicitly not allowed. There is no speed upgrade present.

Read carefully, I used conservation of momentum

Read our rule

Do not calculate speed from kinetic energy: The kinetic energy an object was calculated to possess, in any way whatsoever, should not be considered as related through its speed. While the formula technically can be used to relate those values in both direction this is disregarded in practice. One reason for this is that fiction in general differentiates between the attack potency and the speed of a character. Another reason is that it returns unrealistic values, as even a Small City level+ punch would already have Relativistic+ speed. Out of similar reasons mass should also not be calculated from it.

You cannot scale Yor to the speed you got. This is an AP feat under the wiki's rules, not a speed feat. You cannot treat it as one for an upgrade.

 

[lyric]

The calc is wrong because the basis of the calc is wrong. It uses the speed of her kick to get a timeframe which isn't possible as she completed her kick. She also redirected the car, which requires less energy unless she altered its movement vector by more then 45 degrees or so.

The reason the calc is still up was because I was waiting on the anime to come along to properly downgrade it. Though if this is accepted as a non-gag feat then it doesn't really matter much.

Her kick literally just didn’t complete. It’s shown that on panel by the way her leg is drawn compared to previous panels

 

[KLOL506]

Okay, DontTalk replied, and regarding kicking/punching things at high speed, he said the following here:

"Throws are one thing. Tackles, kicks etc. fall into the same problem as what I said above. Fiction has speedster characters and speed is treated as separate from AP. That's the whole reason we have those restrictions. If a character can run with Mach 100 obviously he can also punch as fast, but it hence shouldn't apply for the same reason.

We had consensus on that matter when the rule was made, so I can't see that changing and it, quite frankly, goes beyond the scope of this thread. If you want to change the existing rules make a new one so that the proposal gets the appropriate attention."

 

[KLOL506]

KLOL literally said within this thread that KE is invalid if it is below 200kg. Like, you guys were there then KLOL shot down Charmanders calc.

Yor is going back to 9B if all recalcs have been accepted. If a perfectly acceptable higher tier calc comes around to which Yor undoubtly scales, we can rediscuss this, but until then, this thread served its purpose

I should note down that DontTalkDT also said that throwing feats are valid for all mass values. So that doesn't fall under the mass restriction. Also the 200 kg part wasn't my idea, it was Nehz's, but then I realized that we have washing machines weighing as much as humans so that becomes problematic but AFAIK the weight restriction is mainly for running and carrying.

As for punching, kicking and tackling however, read the above comment by, and @Armorchompy's disagreement to it in the above thread, which I later agreed to myself against DT.