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Copy Ninja Vs Copy Mage

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So yea, hmmmm

Both know that they can copy abilities, but Raia needs to touch the grimoire to copy the magic that Kakashi doesn't have (if we discount Icha Icha Tactics), but neither could Kakashi copy Raia's techniques because they come straight from the grimoire...

When it comes to versatility, Raia takes it as he can even spam techniques like Yami's dark slashes, but Chidori/Raikiri is more powerful (Raia's copied magic is bit weaker than original ones)

Kakashi could block some of his magic with Douton and he is more intelligent than Raia and has big advantage that is precognition, but his Sharingan takes away much chakra and Raia's mana is bigger than Kakashi's chakra, so he can push him into his limits.

Going with Raia.
 
I'm going with Kakashi.

Although Raia needs to touch the grimoire to copy skills (which Kakashi doesn't have) or at least touch Kakashi ...
Kakashi could still copy his skills, since all he needs to do is see the technique and observe its internal mechanics.

Kakashi still has the advantage of illusions, which Raia has no protection against. A seal or a quick look in his eyes and he would already be in a Genjutsu. With precog, while pressing him into a close fight, preventing him from spam attacks, would be a way.
 
Used against Sakura and against Obito.
Used against an ANBU, to make him sleep instantly.
Zabuza was afraid to look him in the eye over Genjutsu.

Yes ... He already used Genjutsu in-character.
 
But this version of Kakashi?

Kakashi has really thousands of jutsu, but he mainly ***** with Raikiri, Chidori and Douton.

Raia still has Reinforcement Magic and he can boost his abilities (Speed, power, durability) with it.

Unlike Kakashi, Raia uses shitton of his techniques and changes them drastically over time, and Kakashi's time with Sharingan is limited. Raia has INCREDIBLE mana and can use his techniques as much as he wants to.

Raia has "varies" in his range, but his techniques like Yami's Dark Slashes have tens of meters range, and water/fire techniques can reach even hundreds of meters. (Look: Mereoleona and Noelle)

Not to mention Raia's true flight.
 
Sakura and Zabuza went to Classic and ANBU at the BoS. But he used it.

With Shushin, he increase your speed and the chakra can increase your stats, just the same.

Kakashi has long fought with his sharingan. Especially in BoS while keeping Mangekyou enabled.

Doton for water and Suiton for fire. The Genjtusu used against Sakura ranges from tens of meters as well, easy. A seal and Raia would fall on Genjutsu.

Kakashi still has precog and can go to CQC, preventing spam and its likely flight. And it still has clones to help keep you grounded and spam free.
 
3-3

Also Raia is a skilled swordsman, so idk if going to QCQ will give Kakashi that much advantage
 
Well ... Kakashi has the precog and with equal speed, probably the same thing that happened between Sasuke and Naruto and Kakashi is very experienced in Taijutsu.
 
Did this key of Kakashi ever used chakra amps? I think only Sakura and Tsunade used that in character, and other medical ninjas

He has fought long, but still there's a stamina gap. Zabuza was only fighting with water, mist and ninja techniques. Raia is way more versatile than that. Just like I said, Raia can spam everything. Don't think Doton is durable enough to tank Darkness Slashes that were shattering cave. They still have tens/hundreds meters range.

Kakashi's chakra is not enough to spam Doton, use Precog and counter Raia's attacks with amps at the same time and we both know it.
 
Everyone uses it. Kakashi used this when he went to confront Itachi and several times at BoS, before confronting the results of Naruto's training.

Still has a great resistance. How long did Raia fight?
And? Zabuza was still afraid of Sharingan because of Genjutsu.
Not if Kakshi leaves for CQC, remember, they have prior knowledge of each other's abilities.
And Genjutsu also has dozens of meters and doesn't even need eye contact.

Who said something about Kakashi using spam? He just needs to make a Doton that protects him entirely or from Suiton, as he did against Itachi, and escape under the earth or something..
CQC + Precog + Genjutsu + Amplifier and this will result in a likely defeat of Raia.
 
Still, it would likely end up in tie in hits, if he uses chakra amp, still Raia has Mana Skin that boosts dura.

Raia fought with far stronger Mereoleona and Yami for really long time, definitely longer than actual Zabuza vs Kakashi.

Didn't even mention genjutsu dude. Still, it requires direct eye contact. Don't tell me basic Sharingan genjutsu doesn't need it. Only Kotoamatsukami doesn't need it. Didn't see Kakashi using any other genjutsu in this key... If Raia (like he always does in character) keeps huge distance from him he's most likely not going to be caught be it.

Forgot about prior knowledge. Then Raia knows about Sharingan precog and his limits and Kakashi knows that Raia can use shitton of techniques. Still, I don't really see Doton tanking Dark Slashes.

Raia is great swordsman with Dark Magic and with his own amps he's likely going to have advantage in CQC.

Doton protects him entirely, then what? He's going to be completely surrounded by it and to attack he must leave it. Then Raia can straight fight him.

His Suiton requires water doesn't it? Idk what location is this fight in.

Evil Eye gives great stat amps, and are very useful in combat, even with far more experienced opponents like Mereoleona.
 
And Kakashi owns Raikiri, which is cited as higher in his profile and can be used in CQC. So it would still be the same!

How much time? Because Kakashi spent a lot of time fighting with Kakuzu in BoS.

Genjutsu Sharingan requires eye contact. Genjutsu doesn't need eye contact, like the one he used on Sakura and which Raia seems to have no defense at all. And it can be used at tens of meters or perhaps even longer if it follows that your genjutsu is more powerful than Kabuto's Genjutsu, which has affected an entire arena.

Yes, the problem is that it cannot do anything against precog and CQC will still occur. And many characters in Naruto still know about Sharingan's limitations, but are still caught in their abilities. Not really a big problem at all!

Kakashi has precog, has amplifiers and is a genius and a better expert than CQC. With no chance of Raia have some kind of advantage, it would literally happen the same as Sasuke vs Naruto.

It could still flee the earth or something similar.
I don't remember, but I remember just like fire, Suiton could be created out of nothing.

Kakashi can still use the 1st Gate, which gives him 5x in attributes.
 
And Raia has "likely Low 7-B", then we are quite even.

I'm PRETTY sure that we are talking about BoS classic Naruto Kakashi here, not Shippuden one. Kakashi improved to that time.

Can you give me panel or something of that Sakura genjutsu? I'm not doubting, but I want to see what it is.

Raia is not stupid enough to not use Sharingan's limitations in his own favor. That guy is clever as ****.

Idk how hand to hand combatant with kunais and guy who's basically a great swordsman and uses pure energy swords made of darkness would end.

The big AoE Suiton needs water around you (Kisame and Tobirama are exceptions), Mizuranpa etc that Kakashi doesn't use doesn't

Kakashi doesn't use First Gate IC, he used it once to climb on a mountain with one hand
 
This will come out of Tier. The Tier chosen is 7-C. Higher would be no more than the Tier chosen.

BoS = Beginning of Shippuden = / = Kakashi Classic. At least as far as I know.
If this Kakashi is that of the Classic ... It would make no sense at all because Kakashi's Tier has not changed, only some features, such as his stamina, have been increased.

I'm on the phone, man! Hard to get into Manga sites. But it's in the first chapters ... In the Gennin Exam, dude!

Okay, but we saw how Sharingan works with comparable characters and even faster than him in Sasuke vs. Naruto KN0. Kakashi would see him in slow motion and counter everything Raia would do.

I understand! Forget the Suiton.

Used in-character. As far as I know, In-character = everything the character used in the main canon and can be used in combat.
 
Yeah but the amps give him Low 7-B attacks, they aren't really restricted but maybe I'm wrong

BoS means Beginning of Series, it's used many times in other discussions.

I understand

Until be runs out of chakra. But that's win condition for sure.

Yeah but he never used it in a single fight. We are discussing about what they are going to use. Kakashi never even bothered to open the first gate during a sjngle battle so it's not really relevant.
 
Then they would move past Tier and be one-shot Kakashi aka it will be a stomp. So these Amps would be restricted.

I know that, but it doesn't seem like Naruto, as far as I know. And as I said, it wouldn't make much sense, just an unnecessary nerf.

Not if he kills him with Raikiri in CQC or catches a Genjutsu. So the probability is even higher for Kakashi.

That's not the definition of In-character, but I'm fine! It would still be the same.
 
Raikiri is a one shot technique too though.

It's still BoS Kakashi, so we have to accept that

Yeah but they have prior knowledge. Raia can likely avoid that and figure out that Kakashi can't really reach him with the flight. Raia is really a ranged fighter, while Kakashi isn't honestly. He'll put Kakashi on the defensive.
 
But he's still in the Tier, he's just said to be bigger than Kakashi's current category. It is not said to pass of the Tier 7-C.

It's not said "Kakashi Classic". This is an unnecessary nerf with a clear intention of putting a win on Raia, if that really is the version of Kakashi used.. Probably not even considered would be. In fact, there is already an extreme advantage in Raia having prior knowledge of his abilities.

Don't let Kakashi, with his knowledge and precog, keep him from flying and spamming attacks from afar w/ CQC.
 
Kind of agree with Spook that Kakashi won't use the gates in a fight. He used it exactly once in a non-combat scenario and then Kishimoto never bothered to do anything with it again, even though the First Gate could have been exploited by Kakashi in the past to regain his stamina after using his Sharingan a bunch.

Anyway, Kakashi was able to keep his Sharingan open and in use for precog during the entire drawn out battle with Zabuza, while using multiple powerful ninjutsu on top of it (Suiton: Suiryudan, Raikiri, Doton jutsu, etc.).

TBH I think Kakashi has this with genjutsu and stuff like Hiding Like a Mole technique (Kakashi often uses clones as a lure while his real self prepares an attack from below), Raikiri, etc.
 
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