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naruto vs baki

0.5 seconds does not work, as said above. Info analysis again should no work because Naruto's main power comes from magic energy, not muscles. There is no way he is dodging 2000 people's line of sight when they are all equal.
 
Ricsi-viragosi said:
0.5 seconds does not work, as said above. Info analysis again should no work because Naruto's main power comes from magic energy, not muscles. There is no way he is dodging 2000 people's line of sight when they are all equal.
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0.5 does work, it seem you misunderstand the power and what it does. I'll try to explain after my classes. He's Low 7-C in physical strength, so he's someone not to be taken lightly. It's implied to be a speed amp, as it work on someone significantly faster than him later on in the series
 
Alright, first off, let me clarify something: 0.5 Second Unconsciousness is not really a move, it's a natural phenomenon that occurs in every (normal) human being (there would have to be proof of an exception though). The move Baki uses just allows him to bypass that wait time and basically skip the period of time in which the brain is sending signals to muscles.

Second, contrary to popular belief, this move is not based in speed. It's not an amp, it's not a fast move, it has nothing to do with speed. You can outspeed 0.5 (as that was actually a point of contention in the Baki v Yujiro fight). For example, if Naruto were faster than Baki and he didn't have instinctive reaction, Naruto could easily hit Baki before he activated it, but if not, it is activated, and Baki can hit Naruto while his brain is sending signals to his muscles to act.

Finally, another misconception is that if a character has high enough reaction speed, he or she would be unaffected. This is not true. It is not a matter of speed, as stated earlier. Yujiro, who is leagues faster than Baki (Yujiro blitzed Baki just to get a hug later on in the fight), Baki blitzed him to the point that he barely even knew what happened. To imply that Baki characters like Yujiro, who by feats can easily react to a Mach 10 fighter and by statements can react to and dodge a lightning bolt, can't react to an attack happening within the span of time like only 0.5 Seconds is crazy. It's not that he isn't fast enough to react, it's that, while under the effects of 0.5, he CAN'T react. Instinctive Reaction may help in this situation, but even that is a little shaky.
 
oh yeah grace has been over for a while now. (sorry.) but ill count your vote anyways, but this can be added unless someone switches their vote or baki somehow gets 3 more votes.
 
No. 0.5 seconds does not apply in Naruto. It's an in-verse weakness, and not something you can apply to other verses. The 0.5 second unconsciousness is no more real then extra 30% power through dental position, it has real world basis but it's not real, nor does it apply to characters from other verses.

It is as non-sensical for it to exist in a verse with hypersonic reaction characters as optical and hearing nerves in the neck, and yet there they are both. You do not apply it to anyone else though, you can't.
 
i´ve added it to baki´s just waiting on naruto and the request board. (if i ****** anything up feel free to fix it or tell me.)
 
How is it in-verse? This is no different then applying chakra, ki, etc to everybody in that it should be covered under verse equalization.

As I just explained, it has nothing to do with reaction speed. It's a work of fiction, obviously there's going to be "nonsense", but no more than a kid that can hit people with wind balls or duplicate his body. I don't want to cloud up this board, so if you'd like to further discuss, I'll open a discussion thread later and notify you of its opening.
 
It's too late anyway but I'd also make the argument for Baki via BakiHanma's reasons. 0.5 is beyond busted. And BakiHanma gave all the reasons for why it's an ability that could be used against Naruto. Simply responding to BakiHanma's explanation with "no it doesn't" isn't a counter argument my friend. 0.5 is the same as how we allow Naruto characters to use attacks that are supposed to only work on those with chakra, on other verses. Verse equalization is the term I believe.
 
Amlad22 said:
It's too late anyway but I'd also make the argument for Baki via BakiHanma's reasons. 0.5 is beyond busted. And BakiHanma gave all the reasons for why it's an ability that could be used against Naruto. Simply responding to BakiHanma's explanation with "no it doesn't" isn't a counter argument my friend. 0.5 is the same as how we allow Naruto characters to use attacks that are supposed to only work on those with chakra, on other verses. Verse equalization is the term I believe.
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Amlad you absolute savage XD
 
BakiHanma18 said:
How is it in-verse? This is no different then applying chakra, ki, etc to everybody in that it should be covered under verse equalization.

As I just explained, it has nothing to do with reaction speed. It's a work of fiction, obviously there's going to be "nonsense", but no more than a kid that can hit people with wind balls or duplicate his body. I don't want to cloud up this board, so if you'd like to further discuss, I'll open a discussion thread later and notify you of its opening.
Click to expand...
Yes it is, in every way. Verse equalization makes it so that basic energies can interact. So chakra absorption works on ki and such. Verse equalization doesn't give people extra biological parts or limits, which is why the Hyuuga are pretty nerfed in fights, no chakra pathways to abuse.

Yes, work of fiction can have nonsense in it. But said nonsense remains in-verse. It is a literal biological limit you are trying to apply here. It's like me putting Composite Human against anyone and expecting biological limits in humans that people can abuse to work with fictional characters that blatantly don't have them.


And furthermore, verse equal equalizes things, it doesn't pull them out of nowhere. People with no magic energy won't have chakra in them in a match. Same here.
 
As Amlad already said, if it just worked like that, genjutsu wouldn't work on anyone without chakra, which is not true in the case of versus threads on this site. The basest definition on this site of Verse Equalization is this: Verse equalization: Similar supernatural aspects of verses get equalized in a reasonable fashion. With that definition and there being no evidence that Naruto's brain functions differently than that on a normal human's, of which 0.5 Seconds takes its base in, Verse Equalization applies
 
Ciruno Fortes said:
You're basically nerfing the other team for a weakness of your own universe with 0.5
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Wouldn't giving chakra to someone without it fighting a genjutsu user be the same thing? That's called Verse Equalization
 
Ricsi-viragosi said:
That doesn't matter. That's a biological weakness in Baki and doesn't apply in any other verse.
Click to expand...
As I've already explained, that's not true. It is a "supernatural aspect" of Baki, this being covered by VE
 
For the thousant time, Genjutsu works on people without chakra, it's explained in Itachi's novel.

And no, verse equalization cannot give or take powers from you. I can list hundreds of exemples where this same logic was refuted.

Point is, verse equal is for interaction between powers. It cannot change one characters' abilities, for better or worse. You can't get the millions of resistances that come with AP in ergenverse, and you can't become unable to use your powers without fate killing you like the gamer. I allows chakra absorption to work on dragonballs ki, but said ki doesn't now have to work by the rules of chakra.

0.5 seconds of unconsciusness is not something Baki applies to the enemy. It's something all humans in his verse have as a weakness, and he can overcome. You cannot verse equalize a verse-specific weakness.


It being supernatural... I don't understand. It's explained perfectly normally as a biological lapse in-between your brain issuing orders. Regardless, that doesn't matter. Removing your physical limits in Naruto causes you to become tier 5 and die. The same does not apply to any character capable of removing physical limits from themselves. I don't see how this is different from optical and hearing nerves in your neck.

In undertale anything without a set physical body is weak to emotions, and even a 10-C can one-shot a 9-A as long as they want it enough. That doesn't apply to goddam Kurama because he is made out of chakra.

How many more weaknesess that are basic logic for a verse that are not allowed by verse equal would you like me to bring up.
 
Bob8999 said:
well if its similar aspects that are equalized does naruto have something similar?
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You become relativistic by working hard enough, brain-body comunication delay is never once mentioned.

Especially since their mind is detachable from their body.
 
Link the scan

It's not giving or taking a power, it's Naruto having normal biological brain function and 0.5 working on a normal, biological functioning brain, I don't know where this "biological weakness" is, but it's never mentioned in Baki at all, but feel free to list those hundred examples

The ability takes advantage of a naturally occurring problem within the human brain.

Unless there is proof that Naruto wouldn't suffer the same "weakness", I don't see why it wouldn't work

You can't have your cake and eat it too. Either it is an occurrence in the verse loosely based on real life, in which, unless. Naruto's brain works differently, it should to some degree work, or it's only a Baki thing in which since Baki and Yujiro can take advantage of it due to Ogre Physiology, it would be supernatural. That's bit about the 8 Gates is a false equivalency, loss of life is specific to 8 Gates, not all physical limit breakers. Hell, you could go to Gate 7 and live just fine.

Okay?

Go ahead, so far, nothing's stuck
 
And let's say for a moment 0.5 doesn't work (which I still haven't gotten concrete evidence to why it wouldn't), what's stopping Baki from Cockroach Tackling Naruto half to death from the get-go? Or Mach fist to the chin to put him out easily? Or Triceratops Fist KO? How easily we forget that Baki from Raitai to SOO has hundreds of speed and strength amps
 
... Where were you when you could've argued all that earlier before all the votes piled up? Not trying to be mean but I guess you were busy since we can all get busy. But anyway my focus isn't on who wins here but rather the frustration I have with this enforced abilities.


Fact is.... You're enforcing an existing weakness of a verse into another verse that ignores that weakness. You're the one that needs proof that that can apply on the others in the first place.

Fun fact about finding out how biology works in a certain race or body type? It's not 100% truth for another verse. It doesn't matter how much you repeatedly ask for proof that they can ignore that. The idea that human biology contradicts that in most verses is already enough proof.


And then for that ability to work on someone faster? Take into mind.... Mangakas don't usually care about power scaling and exact speed. The artist of Baki wouldn't know if Yujiro was 10 to 100x faster than Baki exactly unless they explicitly said so as fact

This has been pointlessly said again and again and again, what you're asking to do isn't verse equalization. It's an enforced nerf for the sake of giving Baki a win for their own weakness and flaw that is contradicted by the existence of speed feats. I mean are we just gonna ignore the franchises where normal humans dodge bullets, the moment it was shot while it's inches away from their faces? That doesn't take 0.5 seconds. Especially more with lightning.

That's all I'm gonna say
 
I'm not going to buy that novel again for a scan. Especially since that is not the discussion at hand. If you can somehow pirate it, it's at page 8.

No, that's wrong. Because Naruto does not have a normal biological brain, his brain has one of the 8 main producers of magic energy that lets him boost his body to superhuman levels. And because it is not a normal biological brain thing, it's a conjucture made in Baki. A brain has delay in-between processing and ordering the body, but it's nowhere near 0.5 seconds. This is no more applicable to other verses than mister lipstics sticking his fingers into someone's neck and making them deaf, or being able to pull out nerves by several centimeters as if they were rope and needing to cut them.

It is naturally occuring in Baki. Only Baki. Any real world martial artist takes advantage of natural shortfalling of the human body, that doesn't limit fictional verses to said rules.

Burden of proof. I don't need to prove that a fictional weakness doesn't apply outside of the fiction.

What do you mean? Being loosely based on real life does not mean in any way that it applies to other verses. Being loosely based on reality is the problem, because something loosely based on it is not part of it. 0.5 seconds brain delay is not a thing, here or in Naruto. Ogre physiology removing that defect does not make the defect supernatural. If I made a verse where everyone is weak to evil toughts, and then made a character that is immune to that, that doesn't mean that other characters will be weak to evil toughts in verse equal vsbattles. It's not how it works.
 
BakiHanma18 said:
And let's say for a moment 0.5 doesn't work (which I still haven't gotten concrete evidence to why it wouldn't), what's stopping Baki from Cockroach Tackling Naruto half to death from the get-go? Or Mach fist to the chin to put him out easily? Or Triceratops Fist KO? How easily we forget that Baki from Raitai to SOO has hundreds of speed and strength amps
Click to expand...
As for all this, there is hundreds of meters between them. He is not doing anything before Naruto brings out his clones. And Naruto is durable, in the "can get stabbed through the chest and still talk" kind of way, not the tanky way, that none of those would insta KO him.

But again, regardless, Naruto summons 2000 clones and yeets Baki to hell and back with powers he can't really predict.
 
No, you're totally right, I've just been a bit distracted with school, I was kicking myself earlier because I thought it was too late (which it kinda is).

What I'm not understanding is why this is considered a "Bakiverse specific" weakness. I'm pushing the point because, as far as I know, 0.5 is either based in reality or at least loosely so, meaning Naruto's brain would fall under per-view of 0.5 unless it's explicitly stated that his brain works differently

Could you link this to me? Because, again, I push the point because I'm under the impression that this is to some degree just how brains work.

It is explicitly shown several times in that fight alone that Yujiro can move faster than Baki can even see, let alone react, and 0.5 still worked on him.

As I've said countless times, speed does not matter. This isn't a speed thing, being fast doesn't exempt someone from this, and it never will. The action of dodging lightning, per-say, doesn't take 0.5 Seconds, but the space between the trigger and the action does. Baki characters dodge bullets and lightning and all that great stuff, but only after the 0.5 Second Unconsciousness. Also, that's an appeal to motive fallacy.
 
500 miliseconds is false. The normal human average reaction time is 300 (below average) to at least 100. Most studies about it agree on this, but I'll try to do excruciating task to google it. Regardless, it's a limit that would make the act of moving impossible for anyone past mach 1, and Baki ignoring that doesn't mean that you can assume every verse ignores it.

And it is a speed thing. It's nonsensical, but it is a spped thing. It's the speed of your brain processing and making your body do it's thing, which it's pretty bad at apparently in Baki. And an appeal of motive fallacy, like most fallacies, only matter if the fallacy is the only argument.
 
https://backyardbrains.com/experiments/reactiontime

First thing after googling "average human reaction time", I quote: "Here it is! The average reaction time for humans is 0.25 seconds to a visual stimulus, 0.17 for an audio stimulus, and 0.15 seconds for a touch stimulus."

For "fastest reaction time" I get (https://www.reference.com/science/fastest-human-reaction-time-744b62945476fb5d) "0.101 seconds is the current fastest reaction time recorded for human beings. The average reaction time of human beings is around .215 seconds."
 
Can you explain how these points stop 0.5? Also, how much time WOULD Baki be afforded with the actual Unconsciousness period? Because with Cockroach Tackle, he can move at 167 mph in 1 second.

As you've stated, there is a real life delay, just not as long as 0.5. Baki can still use 0.5, it just wouldn't be 0.5 seconds, but less time.

Burden of Proof is when you make a claim, you have to prove it.

Again, if there is an actual delay, 0.5 would just be reduced to the actual real life time here, unless Naruto has some means of bypassing the delay. If so, he still gets Triceratops Fisted, Mach Punched, or, God forbid, Cockroach tackle punched to the nuts.

EDIT: Cockroach Tackle is 168 MPH in under 0.5 seconds
 
No worries on the busyness thing. I'm busy myself and can't stay here but Risci's pretty much explaining it all.


Dude you can't make up stuff about a verse when it's clearly said it's only 0.5 seconds.


Either way.... I'm not gonna lie but you're driving me further away with your arguments. Fact is, the Ogre ability works on nerfed humans in Baki verse, it wouldn't work on people who can react faster.

Aka the people who can react to 0.1 second or such.

The very fact that on one hand-

The 0.5 second works at 0.5 seconds, but then you're arguing for people to be faster (Supersonic or Hypersonic) is a contradiction since that means their bodies are moving faster than the 0.5 second gap. The more I hear about 0.5 second, the more I think it's just a flair fluff ability. Nothing that can truly apply in another battle.

Sorry mate.
 
It works in Baki because the author wants it to. A mach 0.2 attack is in no way capable of moving faster than real humans can see (they only need a reaction time of 0.1 sec too see it comeing, assuming they are only 1 meter apart), and hypersonic characters' brain being unable to tell their body what to do at below average human speeds is dumb and nonsensical.

You cannot confine other verses into that logic. If you wanted to say what reaction time Naruto's brain has, it's 0.000117 seconds at least or else he couldn't function at all.
 
You're right, Baki ignores it and other verses don't, that's my point

But not combat speed or reaction speed like everyone assumes it is, it's, as you said, a brain information processing speed. The appeal mattered enough for me to mention it
 
Make stuff up? He's clearly shown the ability to bypass processing delay, it the premise of the move.

You are free to thinking whatever you choose for this, but I stand by my argument

Which could be bypassed, just not as effectively (about 1/5 as effective)

I will be holding a discussion about it later tonight
 
No, that is not what I said. Baki doesn't ingore real world logic, it plain defies them. It contradicts any ounce of sense for anything moving near mach speeds to have reaction times below 0.1 without crashing into objects due to being unable to keep up with the result of their movement.

Reaction speed is your brain processing my dude. The brain takes 0.2 seconds normally to see a visual stimuli, process it, and tell your body how to move. If you moved at mach 15 and had a reaction of 0.5 seconds, then you jumping forward would result in you moving forward for 2500 meters before your brain registers it. It doesn't work, and that's it.

No matter how much you want it, unless you put Baki against some really slow person, 0.5 is not working on real humans.
 
BakiHanma18 said:
Make stuff up? He's clearly shown the ability to bypass processing delay, it the premise of the move.

You are free to thinking whatever you choose for this, but I stand by my argument

Which could be bypassed, just not as effectively (about 1/5 as effective)

I will be holding a discussion about it later tonight
Click to expand...
The processing delay he surpasses is bad, the point is. It's like someone bypassing the human limit for spead. Congrats, you are subsonic in speed, have fun with a hypersonic enemy. Except this is about reaction time, contradicts their speed rating, and is "below average human" instead of "humanly possible" feat.

You can die on whichever hill you want, that does not change the outcome of this match as far as voting goes.

For a normal human, yes. For someone that moves at hypersonic speeds, no.
 
Since 0.5 seems to be a point of contention, I'll stick with something that can't be refuted: brute strength. Hundreds of meters don't mean much with 2 dashes of 168 mph in under 1 second. Baki could easily cover the distance and put Naruto down.
 
Naruto can casually dash at 912 mph to prank people dude... And speed equal. There is no way in hell Baki will move through hundreds of meters faster than Naruto crosses his fingers.
 
Ricsi-viragosi said:
Naruto can casually dash at 912 mph to prank people dude... And speed equal. There is no way in hell Baki will move through hundreds of meters faster than Naruto crosses his fingers.
Click to expand...
Speed amps are allowed with speed equalized, so Baki dashes across the field. Naruto can cross his fingers, but with defense amps, speed amps, and instinctive reaction, Baki can takes this mid-high dif
 
Speed amps? What speed amp are you talking about? He would need to speed amp 100 times over to cross that distance in the time it takes Naruto to pull up his hands. His amps are not even X10. And Naruto just speedamps back at him, except there are 2000 of him now.

Instinctive reaction is not that good of an ability with 2000 enemies. And at difference of what Yujiro said, more than 7 of them can attack at once, and from more directions than Baki can physically move out of.

His defence amps are moot in front of Naruto's amps, too.
 
Cockroach Tackle and Triceratops Fist, both speed amps. 100x, which would only take a minute at worse. What are Naruto's speed amps, and how good are they?

All 2,000 can't attack him at once, only ~4 can effectively combat him at once due to sheer lack of room. IR can definitely take down the ones that can actually attack him, and he definitely has the stamina to sustain that for only 2,000 clones

What are Naruto's amps you are referring to?
 
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