Conqueror's Haki Addition

[Eminiteable]

This was proposed in the past; however, the threads never reached a conclusion, and we also had less evidence to support it at the time.

In this thread, I'm going to propose granting Conqueror's Haki full Power Nullification, as I believe we now have enough examples to support this ability. Of course, I expect to be met with some “wait and see” responses, but the examples I intend to present are quite blatant and warrant being listed. Any further evidence or clarification can always be added later.

Observation Killing:
We learned from One Piece Volume 4 Billion, the Film Red guide/databook, that Shanks has an ability with his Conqueror’s Haki that allows him to kill Observation Haki and prevent his opponents from seeing the future. This ability has already been added, but it serves as a clear example of sufficiently powerful Conqueror's Haki being able to nullify even other forms of Haki.

---

Joyboy and the Gorosei:
This is the most recent example, where the stored Conqueror’s Haki of Joyboy, when unleashed, completely nullified the Gorosei’s demon forms (transformations that do not appear to be traditional Devil Fruits) forcing them back into their human forms. His Haki also nullified the effects of the Abyss, which are magical circles used to transport the Gorosei onto the island. This Haki canceled the transportation entirely and sent them back to their original locations.

---

Shanks and Greenbull:
Shanks’ Conqueror’s Haki knocked Greenbull out of his Logia form while he was under its influence. We can discern that this was due to the Haki and not a conscious decision by Greenbull, as he was caught off guard by the blast and was instantly reverted to his human state.

---

Considering these examples, I believe that Conqueror’s Haki at a level “Beyond Advanced” should be granted Power Nullification based on the evidence provided. This tier of Haki was chosen because Shanks, who accomplished two of these feats, is rated accordingly, and Joyboy, the other individual, had his Haki directly compared to Shanks' in terms of power.

• Beyond Advanced Stage: Haki users at this stage are capable of using Haoshoku Haki beyond the level of advanced users. Utilizing the "Observation Killing" ability, they can negate the enemy's ability to predict and see into the future, and this technique is usually used against Kenbunshoku Users. They are capable of nullifying Devil Fruit users' abilities, rendering them powerless, for example, forcing Logia users back into their true bodies, unable to call upon their elemental powers. They can nullify transformations, reverting their opponents to their original forms. They can also nullify summonings, such as those from the Abyss, by sending the summoned entities back to their original point.
  • Examples include Shanks and Joyboy
• Power Nullification
  • Kenbunshoku Haki Negation (Utilizes the "Observation Killing" ability preventing them from using the abilities of Kenbunshoku Haki, they can negate the enemy's ability to predict and see into the future)
  • Devil Fruit Negation (Can nullify the effects of devil fruits, such as logia's by forcing them out of their logia form and unable to call upon their powers)
  • Transformation and Summoning Negation (Can force opponents out of their transformed states back into their original forms. Can force those who were summoned back to where they originally came from)

 

[KingTempest]

I like this idea, but I don't understand why it's specifically in the beyond advanced stage.
Cause we see that Ryokugyu can still sense Shanks even when his powers were being nullified, so we know that his Kenbun worked, meaning it wasn't the "Beyond Advanced" that Hao has.

I think this just has to be a perk for people with overwhelmingly strong levels of Advanced Hao, not limiting it to Beyond Advanced.

Plus with the current arc, we might get more with Haoshoku Infusion negating abilities, looking at its effect on the God's Knights and the Gorosei and all.

I don't think we should wait but I think we should chill before putting it at only Beyond Advanced

 

[Eminiteable]

Cause we see that Ryokugyu can still sense Shanks even when his powers were being nullified, so we know that his Kenbun worked, meaning it wasn't the "Beyond Advanced" that Hao has.

Observation Killing was listed in 4B as a technique that used conqueror's haki, it's not something that passively happens regardless of the user's intent.

That technique is more so supporting that those on this level are capable of Power nullification on a variety of skills/powers rather than it being something that happens every time.

We also know for a fact that users on this level can choose those it effects as it's an ability for lower level users and Joyboy's own haki showed this.

I think this just has to be a perk for people with overwhelmingly strong levels of Advanced Hao, not limiting it to Beyond Advanced.

Plus with the current arc, we might get more with Haoshoku Infusion negating abilities, looking at its effect on the God's Knights and the Gorosei and all.

I don't think we should wait but I think we should chill before putting it at only Beyond Advanced

Conqueror's tiering all just comes down to stronger versions of it, that's all there is to it.

The issue with listing this power under advanced users is that not only were these feats and statements achieved only by Shanks and Joyboy both of whom have statements of their haki being exceptionally powerful compared to everyone but that another regular advanced user (yamato) was not capable of nullifying greenbulls logia abilities with her conqueror's.

We may get more examples in the future of Elbaf but that's largely speculation for now and can be looked upon when we get more information.

 

[Kachon123]

Good thread. I mostly agree with KingTempest regarding the scope of the ability. Instead of limiting Power Nullification strictly to the "Beyond Advanced" stage, it makes more sense to treat it as a high-end application/perk that exceptionally powerful users of Advanced Conqueror’s Haki can use.

 

[Godernet]

all Buso and Hao should just be power null tbh

I agree

 

[KingTempest]

Observation Killing was listed in 4B as a technique that used conqueror's haki, it's not something that passively happens regardless of the user's intent.

That technique is more so supporting that those on this level are capable of Power nullification on a variety of skills/powers rather than it being something that happens every time.

We also know for a fact that users on this level can choose those it effects as it's an ability for lower level users and Joyboy's own haki showed this.

Bro wasn't even here for this, he didn't choose those it effected it just hit everybody and those who were fodder faltered

Conqueror's tiering all just comes down to stronger versions of it, that's all there is to it.

The issue with listing this power under advanced users is that not only were these feats and statements achieved only by Shanks and Joyboy both of whom have statements of their haki being exceptionally powerful compared to everyone but that another regular advanced user (yamato) was not capable of nullifying greenbulls logia abilities with her conqueror's.

We may get more examples in the future of Elbaf but that's largely speculation for now and can be looked upon when we get more information.

Conqueror's tiering comes more into control to be honest. Its just that the control up to a certain point comes with strength. But even with that we can't really make new tiers because of strength.

Shanks' Haki has been noted as powerful for the whole series but only when we saw a different application of Hao (the kenbun killing) was when we noted it to be different.

Even Joyboys looks deadass like regular infusion, just strong. Elbaph's is definitely speculation so I'm not worried.

A compromise in my opinion is giving it to only Shanks and leaving it out of the haki page until we get further elaboration

 

[Eminiteable]

all Buso and Hao should just be power null tbh

Buso already has it for devil fruit abilities

 

[Damage3245]

A compromise in my opinion is giving it to only Shanks and leaving it out of the haki page until we get further elaboration

This seems fine to me for now.

 

[Kachon123]

This seems fine to me for now.

A Haki ability can not be added to someone's profile without it also being added to the Haki page. That's not really how the order of things should work.

 

[Eminiteable]

Bro wasn't even here for this, he didn't choose those it effected it just hit everybody and those who were fodder faltered

This isn't the case for Shanks, it literally only effected Greenbull.

This isn't the case for Joyboy, those on the Erik were unaffected and even noted that they personally felt no hostility towards them which is why not a single one of them were effected by it.

Conqueror's tiering comes more into control to be honest. Its just that the control up to a certain point comes with strength. But even with that we can't really make new tiers because of strength.

Shanks' Haki has been noted as powerful for the whole series but only when we saw a different application of Hao (the kenbun killing) was when we noted it to be different.

Even Joyboys looks deadass like regular infusion, just strong. Elbaph's is definitely speculation so I'm not worried.

A compromise in my opinion is giving it to only Shanks and leaving it out of the haki page until we get further elaboration

No it doesn't conqueror's is literally just an ability that gets stronger with the user, the control element is who you choose to effect which can be learned at any level of strength.

It doesn't matter what you think either look like it's not about visuals it's about their feats of actually achieving this ability.

I disagree with this compromise as it's a Haki ability, not a shanks ability. These feats also include Joyboy's own who while doesn't have a profile clearly shows that the ability shouldn't be a shanks exclusive.

Like I said in the OP the "wait and see" crowd can wait for their clarification and make another CRT to try and apply this in other ways in the future but this is for feats displayed by Joyboy and Shanks in previous arcs.

 

[Kachon123]

Thought over it a bit and I think just listing it under Beyond Advanced works fine too.

 

[KingTempest]

This isn't the case for Shanks, it literally only effected Greenbull.

This isn't the case for Joyboy, those on the Erik were unaffected and even noted that they personally felt no hostility towards them which is why not a single one of them were effected by it.

Fine

No it doesn't conqueror's is literally just an ability that gets stronger with the user, the control element is who you choose to effect which can be learned at any level of strength.

The initial ratings for both Kenbunshoku and Haoshoku are strictly initial because they can't control it. That's the foundation of it.

It doesn't matter you think either look like it's not about visuals it's about their feats of actually achieving this ability.

It's hard to brand feats for an ability that has never been shown in canon. Observation Killing and Infusion show no difference.
Shoot even the joyboy example they could tell it was Joyboy.
You're trying to say that "they can force the ability over them but choose which parts of the ability affect them"
That's like saying someone can blast someone with lightning and say
Check yes to paralysis
Check no to burns
Check no to nerve damage
Check yes to lichtenberg scars
From what we know if you get hit with hao you get hit with hao. Saying he can choose is crazy in my opinion.

I disagree with this compromise as it's a Haki ability, not a shanks ability. These feats also include Joyboy's own who while doesn't have a profile clearly shows that the ability shouldn't be a shanks exclusive.

Fine on that note


I'll be so honest. I'm not against this being for Hao, but idk how this works saying it's a "Hao only ability".

We know that Haki can exist outside of the 3 forms. We know that Law nullified techniques using "Haki" but we don't know what type of Haki it was, we just brand it as armament just because. We know all of this too.

I'm not against this being a general Haki ability. Power nullification for Haki overall

 

[Hasty12345]

kill Observation Haki and prevent his opponents from seeing the future.

It works by controlling his own presence, which is another way of saying, IMO, hiding his intent which prevents people from seeing his future actions.

He's not power nulling FS.

 

[Eminiteable]

The initial ratings for both Kenbunshoku and Haoshoku are strictly initial because they can't control it. That's the foundation of it.

Controlling it and honing it to choose who it effects are a bit different.

Zoro for example due to being at a certain strength level when unlocking it was already capable of using the advanced form, but never trained to control who he effects with it's hostility.

It's hard to brand feats for an ability that has never been shown in canon. Observation Killing and Infusion show no difference.
Shoot even the joyboy example they could tell it was Joyboy.
You're trying to say that "they can force the ability over them but choose which parts of the ability affect them"
That's like saying someone can blast someone with lightning and say
Check yes to paralysis
Check no to burns
Check no to nerve damage
Check yes to lichtenberg scars
From what we know if you get hit with hao you get hit with hao. Saying he can choose is crazy in my opinion.

I'm saying that because that's already an aspect of Conqueror's, as they can train to choose who they effect with their hostility.

It's isn't a stretch to assume that a specialised technique of that haki which aims to nullify a certain ability can be chosen to be used at will of the user and isn't just an aftereffect that always accompanies Shanks' CoC blasts.

I'll be so honest. I'm not against this being for Hao, but idk how this works saying it's a "Hao only ability".

We know that Haki can exist outside of the 3 forms. We know that Law nullified techniques using "Haki" but we don't know what type of Haki it was, we just brand it as armament just because. We know all of this too.

I'm not against this being a general Haki ability. Power nullification for Haki overall

I'm against this being listed as a general Haki ability because all three examples are credited as conqueror's Haki specifically.

Law's example isn't conqueror's as we know from Doflamingo that he isn't one and he never learned that in wano like he claims, this only leaves Armament which we told and shown combats devil fruits abilities.

 

[Eminiteable]

It works by controlling his own presence, which is another way of saying, IMO, hiding his intent which prevents people from seeing his future actions.

He's not power nulling FS.

Sandman's translation who's a native speaker and trusted translator in the community:

Shanks can neutralize his opponent's Observation Haki so that the ememy can't see through the future during the fight.

And that's the way it's currently accepted on the profiles.

 

[Hasty12345]

Is this from volume 4B or some other source because that's really exaggerating the handwritten text by Oda?

 

[Eminiteable]

Is this from volume 4B or some other source because that's really exaggerating the handwritten text by Oda?

4B but that's his translation.

You can't kill future sight by hiding your presence or intent. But this is a discussion saved for its own crt.

Right now I'm only working with what was already accepted and applied in a previous CRT

 

[Hasty12345]

You can't kill future sight by hiding your presence or intent. But this is a discussion saved for its own crt.

"First of all we need to give Haoshoku Haki a new Stage, Beyond Advanced Stage, for Shanks ability (Haoshoku Based) to negate the ability to use Kenbunshoku Haki based on controlling a person's presence."

From the accepted CRT you're quoting.

 

[Eminiteable]

"First of all we need to give Haoshoku Haki a new Stage, Beyond Advanced Stage, for Shanks ability (Haoshoku Based) to negate the ability to use Kenbunshoku Haki based on controlling a person's presence."

From the accepted CRT you're quoting.

Read the replies man, I'm not derailing my thread because you want to tackle something already on the Haki page.

 

[Hasty12345]

Read the replies man, I'm not derailing my thread because you want to tackle something already on the Haki page.

Attacking the premise of your thread is not derailing. This is an integral point to your argument and using a CRT that's based on a seemingly very liberal and exaggerated interpretation of the text is very concerning.

 

[Eminiteable]

Attacking the premise of your thread is not derailing. This is an integral point to your argument and using a CRT that's based on a seemingly very liberal and exaggerated interpretation of the text is very concerning.

This was proposed in the past; however, the threads never reached a conclusion, and we also had less evidence to support it at the time.

In this thread, I'm going to propose granting Conqueror's Haki full Power Nullification, as I believe we now have enough examples to support this ability.

The premise of the thread is getting these feats accepted on the page that weren't already on there, that's in the first few lines of the OP in case you missed it. Observation Killing, another ability credited as Conqueror's Haki, which was already accepted on the profiles is simply support. It's not an integral point it's just being noted to support the blatant on-screen feats that we have in the manga.

You clearly have a different interpretation on the observation killing translations and how you interpret it and that's fine, but make your own thread tackling it instead of derailing mine

 

[Hasty12345]

I'm sorry, I just don't see how countering a point of your argument is derailing and this "meta" that's being used as of late to layer bureaucracy to avoid debunking arguments is getting really tiresome and is making participating on this site a massive pain in the ass.

I, nor anyone else, should have to make a whole new CRT to debunk one of the arguments you're making because a CRT was passed 2 years ago on shaky grounds. That's ridiculous.

 

[Kachon123]

I, nor anyone else, should have to make a whole new CRT to debunk one of the arguments you're making because a CRT was passed 2 years ago on shaky grounds. That's ridiculous.

Except that's just not the situation here. Emin is not making an argument for Observation Haki killing in this thread so trying to tackle that is inherently a derailment. I seriously don't know what else to tell you.

 

[Hasty12345]

Except that's just not the situation here. Emin is not making an argument for Observation Haki killing in this thread so trying to tackle that is inherently a derailment. I seriously don't know what else to tell you.

I disagree. He’s using it to argue full power nullification for CoC. The mechanism by which CoO killing works shows it doesn’t nullify CoO and therefore isn’t full power nullification.

I don’t know what else to tell you.

 

[Kachon123]

Acting like an ass and repeating my genuine response to you isn't going to get you anywhere. Folks will just ignore you and honestly that seems to be the best course of action considering the continuous derailments.

 

[Hasty12345]

Acting like an ass and repeating my genuine response to you isn't going to get you anywhere. Folks will just ignore you and honestly that seems to be the best course of action considering the continuous derailments.

Now this is derailing

 

[Eminiteable]

Now this is derailing

this "meta" that's being used as of late to layer bureaucracy to avoid debunking arguments is getting really tiresome and is making participating on this site a massive pain in the ass.

Just make a thread on it man, I'd even be willing to discuss it further with you on there but I'm not derailing this thread with speculation & translation debates for something that has already been accepted, that's not this thread's purpose.

 

[MonkeyOfLife]

It works by controlling his own presence, which is another way of saying, IMO, hiding his intent which prevents people from seeing his future actions.

He's not power nulling FS.

Then it wouldn't be a conqueror's haki ability even tho it's stated to be one...

Which is literally stated to dominate/overpower others with ones own will/killing intent. Controlling ones own presence has nothing to do with conqueror's haki

 

[Hasty12345]

Just make a thread on it man, I'd even be willing to discuss it further with you on there but I'm not derailing this thread with speculation & translation debates for something that has already been accepted, that's not this thread's purpose.

Again. It is not derailing your thread to question the validity of the evidence you're using to make your argument. It is precisely on topic and the outcome of this discussion has a direct impact on the validity of your claim.

I am not making another CRT to simply debunk one of the arguments you are making whilst you're using that very argument to push your CRT.

Feel free to take this to RVR if you feel I am otherwise breaking the rules, but if you can determine that questioning one of your four key pieces of evidence is derailing to your thread, and force me to counter your arguments/evidences in another CRT because you don't want to deal with it, then this site is lost.

 

[Hasty12345]

Then it wouldn't be a conqueror's haki ability even tho it's stated to be one...

Which is literally stated to dominate/overpower others with ones own will/killing intent. Controlling ones own presence has nothing to do with conqueror's haki

You can't make that generalisation when Shanks is the only known user of this ability in the history of the franchise. If Oda's handwriting - our only known source for this ability - says Shanks controls his presence with his CoC then that's how it works until further notice.

I've requested the OTT look at it because I feel as though Sandman took some liberties and made an extrapolation not in the text. I'm happy to postpone this discussion until it's looked at by the sites translators.

 

[MonkeyOfLife]

Again. It is not derailing your thread to question the validity of the evidence you're using to make your argument. It is precisely on topic and the outcome of this discussion has a direct impact on the validity of your claim.

I am not making another CRT to simply debunk one of the arguments you are making whilst you're using that very argument to push your CRT.

Feel free to take this to RVR if you feel I am otherwise breaking the rules, but if you can determine that questioning one of your four key pieces of evidence is derailing to your thread, and force me to counter your arguments/evidences in another CRT because you don't want to deal with it, then this site is lost.

the thing is tho... You're not actually debunking his CRT still, Only one support, the CRT can still continue even if we ignore your "debunk" on only 1 out of the other feats... So technically it would be derailing to try and debate about this one statement even tho his CRT is only using it for support that isn't needed for the CRT to pass

Just trying to explain that to you where they are coming from

 

[That_moron2]

all Buso and Hao should just be power null tbh

 

[MonkeyOfLife]

says Shanks controls his presence

where does it even say that? Proof?

Because it literally says he prevents others of controlling their own Obs Haki from what I remember translating it after calling it observation killing

I've requested the OTT look at it because I feel as though Sandman took some liberties and made an extrapolation not in the text. I'm happy to postpone this discussion until it's looked at by the sites translators.

So you've been attacking the argument with no evidence whatsoever? Just pure headcanon? At that point you cannot complain when others are saying you're derailing

 

[Godernet]

 

[Hasty12345]

where does it even say that? Proof?

Because it literally says he prevents others of controlling their own Obs Haki from what I remember translating it after calling it observation killing

So you've been attacking the argument with no evidence whatsoever? Just pure headcanon? At that point you cannot complain when others are saying you're derailing

I have other translations that support my claim, however, they would be superseded by the wikis translations anyway. I’m trying to be somewhat efficient.

I am not coming at this without cause if that’s what you’re trying to imply.

I’ll respond to the rest when I get home from work.

 

[KingTempest]

@Hasty12345 preferably if you want to tackle it make a new thread. You filling this up

 

[MonkeyOfLife]

Spoiler: Observation Killing

霸王色
“見聞殺し〟 気配のコントロール未来を見せない。

Hao color
“Hear and See Killer”: No sign of controlling the future.

This isn't really about hiding ones own presence, trying to argue that goes against literally everything con haki does...

Let's even assume that his con haki even does kill his own presence.. That would still classify as powernull by making his presence non existent

Not going to continue the discussion here anymore tho

 

[Infinite9Luck]

I agree with the thread, however it should have a deeper categorisation imo, which characters would qualify to get Beyond Advance?
The problem I see, is that maybe Shanks can do that because he is extremely proficient in that area, what if he's the only one capable?
Though I'm not against a possibly in case.

 

[Eminiteable]

I agree with the thread, however it should have a deeper categorisation imo, which characters would qualify to get Beyond Advance?
The problem I see, is that maybe Shanks can do that because he is extremely proficient in that area, what if he's the only one capable?
Though I'm not against a possibly in case.

Shanks and Joyboy

 

[FinePoint]

Why are so many anime characters looking like Sans Undertale recently?