Composite Human vs. Thunder McQueen.

[Ricsi-viragosi]

What? We assume the larts that are not specified to be different to stay the same. Really, you should at least try to put logic to counter others

 

[TheJ-ManRequiem]

Prep yeah. He can prepare or lay traps but he still must show up.

 

[Wokistan]

Prep is a pretty obvious modification. Show me where it says prep doesn't allow hiding. Show me how all the invisible by default characters were actually considered to start visible for whatever reason. If the OP doesn't specify otherwise, 10 days of prep and the smarts of everyone to ever live is a perfectly valid reason why that bit would be defied.

 

[PaChi2]

I mean, CH can incap the guy with drugs.

Voting for CH.

 

[Ricsi-viragosi]

What are you talking about? Only CH has prep, thunder is still on random encounter with no prior knowledge.

Also, burden of proof fallacy, i do not need to prove a negative

 

[Wokistan]

Drugs go back to CH, but if CH just builds like a foxhole in the 10 days hes given and maybe prepr artillery just incase McQueen suddenly isn't suicidal, it should win so long as it never exposes itself to McQueen and registers as a target for the stand. With knowledge of how McQueen works, and the knowledge of every stealth expert ever, it should stay hidden just fine.

 

[TheJ-ManRequiem]

Onviously because the match wouldnt be a match in the first place. He can hide but he must start within the maximum starting range of himself and mcqueen. And sba dictates mcqueen would want fight ch a anyway . Ch dies have pre paration but twisting that to he point where ch wont even follow the rest if the rules for sharing and making it so cheap wont even fight McQueen honestly not what op let ch do.

 

[Ricsi-viragosi]

Ch has resistance to the same drugs, but thats besides the point, he simply snipes

 

[PaChi2]

Drugs go back to CH, but if CH just builds like a foxhole in the 10 days hes given and maybe prepr artillery just incase McQueen suddenly isn't suicidal, it should win so long as it never exposes itself to McQueen and registers as a target for the stand. With knowledge of how McQueen works, and the knowledge of every stealth expert ever, it should stay hidden just fine.

>Drugs go back to CH

CH has previous knowledge on which drugs he/she is using. He/she has already prepared and antidote for him/her.

Drugs are the winning condition. They make Mcqueen sleep and its gg.

 

[Wokistan]

How exactly is using a logical and likely to happen strategy due to your prep time and prior knowledge cheaper than having an ability that makes you kill people for dying, exactly? SBA says in character but willing to kill, it actually doesn't specify whether or not people know of each other and in fact with several invisible characters the opposite has been assumed if the invis isn't nullified in some other way.

 

[Ricsi-viragosi]

TheJ, i didnt understand anything,but ill try to answer.

A human can only see up to 3 kms away naturaly, so sniping does work from 4kms.

Yes it is. The op directly gave it knowlege and prep, so ch can either use aphrodisiacs to make thunder feel all tingly instead of suicidal, or snipe from 4 kms away

 

[TheJ-ManRequiem]

Hth would deflect the effect on lcqueen on ch not the drug or poison itself. Resistance wont do anything for the fact mcqueen cant resust and excluding that ch would take the same position as mcqueen meaning he orobably would lack the ability of taking an antitote.

 

[Wokistan]

>Injecting people with antidepressants from 4km

What even are Thunder McQueen threads lol

 

[Wokistan]

The effects of stuff like that's positive though, kinda like how 999's wincon is. That wouldn't exactly negatively affect CH lol

 

[TheJ-ManRequiem]

Wokistan ch must start within range. That rule on and explicitly noted on sba meaning mcqueen would have at least seen ch.

 

[Ricsi-viragosi]

First, i didnt say he would do that particular action from 4kms away, but pleasure inducing drugs can be shot from afar.


Second, the drug litiraly causes pleasure, it would not inconvinience CH at all.

 

[PaChi2]

Hth would deflect the effect on lcqueen on ch not the drug or poison itself. Resistance wont do anything for the fact mcqueen cant resust and excluding that ch would take the same position as mcqueen meaning he orobably would lack the ability of taking an antitote.

Boi, If I sleep Mcqueen, I use a drug to keep CH awake, its easy. And yes, you can synchro a devise with your heart rate so that it makes the antidote flow within your blood the moment the HR gets lower than a certain point.

CH has this.

 

[TheJ-ManRequiem]

The effects of stuff like that's positive though, kinda like how 999's wincon is. That wouldn't exactly negatively affect CH lol

And? The happier mcqueen is he would probably want commit suicide even then as he did within the manga and the effect would still transfer. Hth would even deflect hunger or starvation or even being upside down.

 

[Ricsi-viragosi]

Wokistan ch must start within range. That rule on and explicitly noted on sba meaning mcqueen would have at least seen ch.

No, the rule states they are the farthest possible range away from each other up to 4kms there is no mc needing to see him

 

[TheJ-ManRequiem]

Boi, If I sleep Mcqueen, I use a drug to keep CH awake, its easy. And yes, you can synchro a devise with your heart rate so that it makes the antidote flow within your blood the moment the HR gets lower than a certain point.

CH has this.

An atitode would effect and null a stand effect?

 

[PaChi2]

>Injecting people with antidepressants from 4km

What even are Thunder McQueen threads lol

Gas?

 

[Wokistan]

hunger takes far too long, and this isn't even the wincon I'm arguing for. Its a 4KM radius, as long as CH starts underground in that radius its good. Doesn't mean McQueen must have line of sight. Did McQueen get antidepressants and such in the manga? I don't really remember this guy too well except due to this site lol

 

[Ricsi-viragosi]

A pheromone made to make you feel happy does counter abilities based on your will to die, yes

 

[PaChi2]

Can you prove HtH works like you claim it to? Because in the manga it didnt reflect everything on hermes, just the damage Mcqueen suffered.

 

[Wokistan]

I mean if it's been shown to not work in the manga, fair enough. I don't remember him ever interacting with that sort of stuff, but I could be wrong. Antidepressants don't work for everyone irl, after all.

 

[Ricsi-viragosi]

Im not talking about anzidepressants, im talking about aphrodisiac

 

[PaChi2]

From what I saw, HtH wont reflect anything non-lethal or not harmful for Macqueen. Making him sleep is GG.

 

[TheJ-ManRequiem]

Even if that was the case (because of shit that hth being things that aren't immediately kethal such as starving) hth would act anyway the moment ch did a lethal act because hth is a subconscious stand and automatic meaning even if he was asleep hth would act out for him Also sleeping? The problem with that is the way the sleeping would occur . Drugs or sleeping pills and od is a method of death.

 

[Wokistan]

But it not being a dosage sufficient to overdose shouldn't trigger it then, if that's the way the stand works. CH knows how H2H works here, so it would just leave him asleep for the incap. If all else fails, there's still the cheesy foxhole strat.

 

[Ricsi-viragosi]

But he does not need to get lethal, because incapacitation is a thing.

 

[Mand21]

Onviously because the match wouldnt be a match in the first place.
He can hide but he must start within the maximum starting range of himself and mcqueen. And sba dictates mcqueen would want fight ch a anyway . Ch dies have pre paration but twisting that to he point where ch wont even follow the rest if the rules for sharing and making it so cheap wont even fight McQueen honestly not what op let ch do.

Nonsense. Assassination is still a part of vs battles. Characters don't have stealth mastery and assassination techniques for us to "duh must be a battle". Not how it works. This is about who wins, not about the strongest guy, or stuff like character morals and intellect wouldn't be in question.

CH has stealth mastery and can use it to assassinate their target.

CH wins. Can we already add this to their profile? Lol, I don't see how else are people going to try to defend TMQ.

An atitode would effect and null a stand effect?

Yes. It's a reflection of an organic effect. Stuff that's affecting TMQ will affect CH too, if the stand is in action. The opposite isn't true. CH can give TMQ sedatives and themself a neutralizing dose of nootropics. Either that or you must consider that somehow a stand effect can affect the mind without giving a shit to neurology when neurology was used to affect the mind in the first place.

Even if that was the case (because of shit that hth being things that aren't immediately kethal such as starving) hth would act anyway the moment ch did a lethal act because hth is a subconscious stand and automatic meaning even if he was asleep hth would act out for him
Also sleeping? The problem with that is the way the sleeping would occur . Drugs or sleeping pills and od is a method of death.

Doesn't matter. It's not both subconscious and Ultra Instinct equipped. It isn't automatically gonna know where to reflect something.

But he does not need to get lethal, because incapacitation is a thing.

There's also this. If only lethal things are reflected, CH can make his opponent quadriplegic with extraordinary genius medical precision.

 

[Monarch_Laciel]

CH via overwhelming intelligence advantage combined with prep time and prior knowledge.

Seriously, as if the sum total of human existence couldn't think up and successfully pull off a plot to take down Thunder without HTH getting him.

 

[TheJ-ManRequiem]

He can assanite mcqueen after he shows up. Preparation doesnt allow for shit that ya are extrapolating it can. Sba and all. Although would be nice if op said a thing on that.


>CH has stealth mastery and can use it to assassinate their target.

Which would deflect back on ch? Stealth wont do anything for ch.

>Yes. It's a reflection of an organic effect. Stuff that's affecting TMQ will affect CH too, if the stand is in action. The opposite isn't true. CH can give TMQ sedatives and themself a neutralizing dose of nootropics.

Clearly ya have no clue what hth actually does because that isn't how hth works. Hth would deflect the effect back on ch the effect that mcqueen would be undergoing not the effect the weapon or drug. Mcqueen doesnt have a resistance meaning ch gets hit by the full effect despite what medicine he may have because hth is a supernatural phenomen meaning medicine would have no effect anyway. Plus hth would be constant doing the effect on ch.

>Either that or you must consider that somehow a stand effect can affect the mind without giving a shit to neurology when neurology was used to affect the mind in the first place.

Yeah actually. It us a supernatural effect. And the mind (well within jojo anyway) is a supernatural thing (facet of the soul at least). Also how would check sedate mcqueen when he git sedated himself?

>Doesn't matter. It's not both subconscious and Ultra Instinct equipped. It isn't automatically gonna know where to reflect something

Actually fakse. Hth effected ermes despite mcqueen gaving absolutely no idea where ermes was located.

>There's also this. If only lethal things are reflected, CH can make his opponent quadriplegic with extraordinary genius medical precision.

Hth even deflects the posistion mcqueen takes meaning unless ya want debate being upside down us lethal then yeah no. Hth deflects all things that mcqueen is experiencing when hth is activated.

 

[TheJ-ManRequiem]

CH via overwhelming intelligence advantage combined with prep time and prior knowledge.

Seriously, as if the sum total of human existence couldn't think up and successfully pull off a plot to take down Thunder without HTH getting him.

And the plot would be?.

 

[Wokistan]

Stealth is why McQueen doesn't get to know of him In the first place, CH knows how to stay hidden really well and has 10 days of prep. SBA doesn't even say anything about the awareness of both parties, in fact matches with invis characters prove the opposite, as long as CH's foxhole is within 4km its within SBA limits. No issue with anything else but the last one, since they're proposing a method that when replicated wouldn't be harmful to CH anyways. Think like how scp 999 wouldn't be negatively effected by its own effect because its not a negative thing.

 

[Monarch_Laciel]

Well I'm not the sum total of human experience, so I couldn't tell you. But CH has the combined experience of every genius, every military leader, every assassin, every planner ever.

Hell, I'd vote him winning by talking McQueen into not being suicidal with the total knowledge and experience of every psychologist and everyone who's ever talked a suicidal person out of killing themselves before.

 

[TheJ-ManRequiem]

Then ya cant use that as a reasoning. Ya must explain why or what.

Mcqueen would probably murder himself before Christmas could actually say anything decent.

 

[Mand21]

"He can assanite mcqueen after he shows up. Preparation doesnt allow for shit that ya are extrapolating it can. Sba and all. Although would be nice if op said a thing on that."

Refute our claims, then, rather than just denying possibilities through "SBA".

">CH has stealth mastery and can use it to assassinate their target.

Which would deflect back on ch? Stealth wont do anything for ch."

Are you serious? Are you ******* serious'? Do you have any idea what you're talking about? Do you believe his stand has Ultra Instinct? Do you believe his stand instantly reflects any and all lethality potential regardless of 1. Not detecting the attacker; 2. Not having time to do so due to sudden death by being blitzed by something like a bullet?

"Clearly ya have no clue what hth actually does because that isn't how hth works. Hth would deflect the effect back on ch the effect that mcqueen would be undergoing not the effect the weapon or drug. Mcqueen doesnt have a resistance meaning ch gets hit by the full effect despite what medicine he may have because hth is a supernatural phenomen meaning medicine would have no effect anyway. Plus hth would be constant doing the effect on ch."

That's not how effects of any kind work. You can have no Regenerationn and transfer your damages to me. If I can regen from that faster than it kills me or have resilience, it won't kill me. Plus, if you are making me sleepy but I have a drug making me more alert, your effect won't simply overwrite the drug I'm on unless it has the specificities of doing that, such as feats of being able to ignore previous states or stuff that would combat the damage itself.

"Yeah actually. It us a supernatural effect. And the mind (well within jojo anyway) is a supernatural thing (facet of the soul at least). Also how would check sedate mcqueen when he git sedated himself?"

So many things in anime are supernatural effects and yet they do not work like that. Oh, actually, every last superpower is supernatural. You're NLFing the crap out of something which has no evidence of being capable of bypassing said limits. Want an example of how? That's exactly what Mizou Yukuhashi does in Medaka Box: his powers make him feel and think every thought of everyone around as if his own, and if that's not sharing mental effects I don't know what is, yet by blitzing himself through having his targets lose consciousness through pure neural effects before he can be overwhelmed by the feeling of sleepiness, he counters himself and takes down several top tiers in one go. If CH can wake themself like one of Mizou's opponents bites her nail off to shock herself awake, then it's not like TMQ will simply ******* lolnope the separate reality of CH's subjectivities and make him fall asleep anyways'! Stop wanking him and desperately seeking for ways to make a lost fight be "won".

"Actually fakse. Hth effected ermes despite mcqueen gaving absolutely no idea where ermes was located."

Show me evidence that there was no previous detection by him or the stand whatsoever. I have no trust in your statements.

"Hth even deflects the posistion mcqueen takes meaning unless ya want debate being upside down us lethal then yeah no. Hth deflects all things that mcqueen is experiencing when hth is activated."

Which doesn't mean it will deflect something which has no lethal consequences whatsoever.

 

[Wokistan]

McQueen hasn't tongue bit in canon, despite the fact that nothing stopped him from doing that, so you can't assume he does that for a really fast suicide. Also there's still the technically allowed hiding cheese strat, which when you consider how shit like guerilla warfare developed irl isn't even near a stretch.

 

[Monarch_Laciel]

Then ya cant use that as a reasoning. Ya must explain why or what

Since when does anyone need to state a plan of attack or how the fight goes to vote?

The what is CH. the Why is overwhelming experience advantage, prep, and knowledge.