Composite Human vs. Thunder McQueen.

[Wokistan]

I've stated several that haven't been countered by anything except just a statement saying "no he just cant do that because reasons" without any sort of rule citations. Just pick one of the several variants of hiding and there you go. Prep time OP

 

[TheJ-ManRequiem]

>Are you serious? Are you ******* serious'? Do you have any idea what you're talking about? Do you believe his stand has Ultra Instinct? Do you believe his stand instantly reflects any and all lethality potential regardless of 1. Not detecting the attacker; 2. Not having time to do so due to sudden death by being blitzed by something like a bullet?

Are ya? Excluding the fact the stand can and had on panel accurate ly detected and effected ermes despite being nowhere bear McQueen and McQueen having no idea where ermes was but according to the stand bio on the manga any death us free game even shit such as (explicitly mentioning) explosions which us a hell of a lot faster than a bullet.

>That's not how effects of any kind work. You can have no Regenerationn and transfer your damages to me. If I can regen from that faster than it kills me or have resilience, it won't kill me. Plus, if you are making me sleepy but I have a drug making me more alert, your effect won't simply overwrite the drug I'm on unless it has the specificities of doing that, such as feats of being able to ignore previous states or stuff that would combat the damage itself.

False equalivance mate. Hth reflects what mcqueen experienced. Ch can take all the shit he wants and hth would still effect him the same way as the drug effected mcqueen. Plus a medicine effecting a stand effect? Canndrugs do that now? Effect spiritual and supernatural effects?

The point there? Completely missed my point. Was more along the lines hinting at the fact hth itself us supernatural and thus any thing that cant effect hth itself wont prevent the effect.

With ermes? He met ermes prior. But ermes long pissed off and left the area completely and hth effected ermes anyway. Of course still working under the assumption that mcqueen is aware of ch. Unless op specified otherwise.

And ? Are ya actually debating that something as trivial as moving upside down us lethal? Also the surgery point? The moment the blade Pierce's mcqueen the blade would pierce ch . The end result doesnt have be lethal but being stabbed clearly is despite the end result.

 

[Ricsi-viragosi]

No, burdenof proof fallacy. Dammit, i already told you thrice! Proof or dont bring it up! Dammit man, you managed to assume that it can negate low-high regen of a being with no organs!

 

[TheJ-ManRequiem]

Since when does anyone need to state a plan of attack or how the fight goes to vote?

The what is CH. the Why is overwhelming experience advantage, prep, and knowledge.

A few hours ago when i was told that ya had too. Ya must explicitky mention what the plan would entail.

 

[TheJ-ManRequiem]

No, burdenof proof fallacy. Dammit, i already told you thrice! Proof or dont bring it up! Dammit man, you managed to assume that it can negate low-high regen of a being with no organs!

What? What are ya even talking about?

 

[Wokistan]

All Monarch needs is a FRA though. Also, Mand you should probably calm down before you get worse and someone reports you. Its really not that big a deal.

 

[Ricsi-viragosi]

, ou, jman, are beyond... Just beyond my comphrehension.


You fail to realize CH has ways to put mc down whitout harming him, youre ignoring and misrepresenting the rules of the wiki and completly ignoring others. And lets not talk about the fallacies

 

[Wokistan]

I'm pretty sure that Risci meant that for a different thread.

 

[Ricsi-viragosi]

No, i didnt, ch can put him down with sleep induction, he is misrepresenting sba, and he is ignoring points already brought up

 

[Monarch_Laciel]

A few hours ago when i was told that ya had too. Ya must explicitky mention what the plan would entail.

That's never been a thing, so pretty sure they were wrong, or you're misunderstanding them.

Anyway, I'll give you something then. CH jumps on Thunder using his vastly superior martial arts skill to put him in a body lock of some kind. While they are both trapped due to the effect sharing, CH uses his psychological and persuasive skill to talk Thunder out of wanting to die, or at least no longer wants to die with conposite Human. Then, when Thunder no longer wants to die, or CH is no longer his target at least, and the effects of HTH are subsequently negated, which CH will know happens because he will no longer himself be trapped in his own body lock due to effect sharing, he breaks Thunder's neck or uses some other method to kill him.

 

[Wokistan]

Guys there is really no reason to get this up in arms about a vs thread. As I see it the hiding strats still work and nobody has provided sufficient evidence to the contrary, just suggest your argument and move on. This thread got pretty long, its more likely that J man just forgot something mentioned earlier rather than maliciously ignoring people's stuff. I also don't see too much wrong about what he's saying myself, and if McQueen knows of CH I doubt CH would win outside of maybe being the best psychologist ever. My method just ensures McQueen doesn't get to know. Sleep induction would get redirected to CH probably, as dart rifles can't shoot 4km.

 

[TheJ-ManRequiem]

How incapacitation? Even the position is shared. Hed incapacitate himself. That is LITERALLY on the profile. Harm? Hth reflects anything mcqueen is going through while in effect. If ch did that prior to hth activating yeah ya would be true. Also sleep induction? Maybe hth not having been activated would let that work. But otherwise yeah that would deflect on ch. Sleeping pill overdose and all is a common form plus he loses conscious when drowning or hanging it suffocating and hth worked.

As far as the op stated she had preparation but saying ch doesnt even have to show up and mcqueen us entirely unaware that he us fighting at all? Yeah man kinda a tad over what id call preparation. Fallacy? Well considering one of the main debates right now us that changed can yse a drug that would mitigate the effects of a supernatural damage deflector that deflects what mcqueen is going through exactly so far down that even the post he takes gets deflected...

Also having Regenerationn is the one foolproof way get around hth actually.

 

[Wokistan]

He doesn't not show up, he preps himself dug into a foxhole or small bunker. That's not beyond the boundaries of prep. That's not even an uncommon irl strategy. Considering OP let CH know what McQueen can do, its extremely likely. Other stuff I have no issue with, though sleep is technically different from a total loss of consciousness that's just being unnecessarily pedantic. H2H is beatable with regen of like low godly or better, or just resist stand stuff. Not like some sort of unbeatable stand.

 

[TheJ-ManRequiem]

That's never been a thing, so pretty sure they were wrong, or you're misunderstanding them.

Anyway, I'll give you something then. CH jumps on Thunder using his vastly superior martial arts skill to put him in a body lock of some kind. While they are both trapped due to the effect sharing, CH uses his psychological and persuasive skill to talk Thunder out of wanting to die, or at least no longer wants to die with conposite Human. Then, when Thunder no longer wants to die, or CH is no longer his target at least, and the effects of HTH are subsequently negated, which CH will know happens because he will no longer himself be trapped in his own body lock due to effect sharing, he breaks Thunder's neck or uses some other method to kill him.

Maybe but at that point could he stop mcqueen from jumping in front of traffic it doing anything that would effect ch? Probably not. Seeing as no user can decide on a starting distance. And on another note mcqueen has his memory implanted to specifically want to die. That us his purpose meaning if he didnt want to or such he would probably change his mind as he did when he encountered ermes. He stopped trying to kill himself only not even seconds later do another attempt.

Also yeah no the dude was honestly quite explicit on what he meant. Ya must explain what exactly a plan would entail.

 

[Wokistan]

It was decided that there's no civs in central park for SBA, not sure if cars are around. Tongue bite hasn't been done in canon despite there being no reason for him not to, so he likely just didn't think of it and as such he can't do it here unbloodlusted.

Monarch just FRA and this gets over sooner

 

[TheJ-ManRequiem]

>H2H is beatable with regen of like low godly or better, or just resist stand stuff. Not like some sort of unbeatable stand.

Mid would probably completely make hth useless hobestly.

 

[Wokistan]

Is it totally based off of physical damage or Is it just normal death manip? This is important for something else.

 

[TheJ-ManRequiem]

When? That may be useful for later man. Also dropped the tongue act awhile back (despite the fact he could use anything at all within the environment even a branch).

 

[Ricsi-viragosi]

There is no proof of it being proper death manip, so by burden of proof it isnt

 

[Wokistan]

Another thread currently running lol

Basically, whether or not McQueen gets stomped depends on how his death manip works, its vs SCP 999

Its threads like these that really make me wish more OPs would specify conditions beyond just SBA

 

[Monarch_Laciel]

Thunder doesn't want to die alone, and that manifests itself as a stand that kills his target with him.

Except if he jumps into traffic while CH is still a kilometre or two away, he is, for all intents and purposes, alone. Or at least he isn't dying with the person who he wants to die with him.

Also prep time. CH sets up some barricades or clears traffic in the area, and does all of numerous other things he can do to eliminate methods of Thunder killing himself.

Then CH kills him in the instant he stops wanting to die before the memory disk makes him suicidal again, and he will know of that moment because HTH will stop working on him in that moment.

 

[Wokistan]

Jumping into traffic would probably just kill whoever hit him with the car, if there's even traffic in SBA central park.

 

[Ricsi-viragosi]

He can juat use sleeping gas

 

[TheJ-ManRequiem]

Probably damage deflection with minor (almost not worth mentioning) probably depending on the method honestly.

 

[TheJ-ManRequiem]

>Thunder doesn't want to die alone, and that manifests itself as a stand that kills his target with him.

Wrong monarch. White had given mcqueen hth.

>Except if he jumps into traffic while CH is still a kilometre or two away, he is, for all intents and purposes, alone. Or at least he isn't dying with the person who he wants to die with him.

Exactly. A distance would be nice.

>Also prep time. CH sets up some barricades or clears traffic in the area, and does all of numerous other things he can do to eliminate methods of Thunder killing himself.

That would honestly probably force mcqueen to murder himself which ya probably wouldnt want monarch.

>Then CH kills him in the instant he stops wanting to die before the memory disk makes him suicidal again, and he will know of that moment because HTH will stop working on him in that moment.

How would he? He cant exact see hth. And the amount of time that would take is probably faster than ch. Even a sudden death would probably give him enough time to consider that again. Seeing as he was still alive after a near foolproof suicide method (despite being cut short. Electrocution with saline water).

 

[Ricsi-viragosi]

He can juat use sleeping gas

Bump

 

[Wokistan]

Sleeping gas actually has been known to kill people, probably not the best idea. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moscow_theater_hostage_crisis

 

[Ricsi-viragosi]

The Morphine used there is not the standard chemical tough.

 

[Monarch_Laciel]

Force McQueen to kill himself? With what pray tell? CH has removed all methods of doing so from the area, and we've already established that biting off his own tongue can't happen.

I actually said how he knows HTH has stopped working. And "probably" faster isn't enough. Prove that Thunder will decide he wants to kill himself again, after the world's best psychologist has convinced him otherwise faster than CH can Thunder's neck, or knocking him out with a chokehold or preprepared drug and then killing him, or a knife to the eye, or a gun, or anything else.

 

[Mand21]

Thunder doesn't want to die alone, and that manifests itself as a stand that kills his target with him.
Except if he jumps into traffic while CH is still a kilometre or two away, he is, for all intents and purposes, alone. Or at least he isn't dying with the person who he wants to die with him.

Also prep time. CH sets up some barricades or clears traffic in the area, and does all of numerous other things he can do to eliminate methods of Thunder killing himself.

Then CH kills him in the instant he stops wanting to die before the memory disk makes him suicidal again, and he will know of that moment because HTH will stop working on him in that moment.

How many people did already vote for CH? This should suffice. There can't be less than 4 votes by this point. >.>

 

[TheJ-ManRequiem]

Force McQueen to kill himself? With what pray tell? CH has removed all methods of doing so from the area, and we've already established that biting off his own tongue can't happen.

I actually said how he knows HTH has stopped working. And "probably" faster isn't enough. Prove that Thunder deciding he wants to kill himself again, after the world's best psychologist has convinced him otherwise is faster than CH snapping Thunder's neck, or knocking him out with a chokehold or preprepared drug, or a knife to the eye, or a gun, or anything else that would instantly kill him.

No ya only established mcqueen would have picked other methods over self injury. And what would he do when he cant do a method such as drowning hanging or jumping?

Well do ya equalized the implanted and varied memory or just mcqyen and hth himself?

 

[Ricsi-viragosi]

Yeah, I voted 7 for CH

 

[Wokistan]

Ok but even if there's 7 votes JMan is still trying to argue for incon, which is what grace is for. I don't agree with what he's saying, but he's still got like a day.

 

[Ricsi-viragosi]

Grace would still stay no matter what, so of course we have to wait for a kther 21 hours

 

[Iapitus_The_Impaler]

How many voting for Inconclusive?

 

[TacticalNuke002]

Its not in character for TMQ to die by himself(commit suicide) without taking someone, preferably someone special to him, with him.

 

[TacticalNuke002]

I counted the votes and...

CH: 5( Wokistan, Mand21, Pachi2, Monarch Laciel, Ricsi-viragosi)

TMQ: 0

Inconclusive: 5(TheJ-ManRequiem, Paulo.junior.969, Iapitus The Impaler, Reinhardthrowhisspear, TacticalNuke002)

Not sure why grace is on when the votes aren't even decisive.

 

[Iapitus_The_Impaler]

Its not in grace then

 

[Ricsi-viragosi]

Not sure why grace is on when the votes aren't even decisive.

K. Miscounted then, my bad

 

[Wokistan]

bump