Composite Esper vs Composite Akuma no Mi

[XDragnoir]

Esper powers and Akuma no Mi will not null themselves due to being in a single body.

Stats equal, amps allowed

Logias restricted

Accelerator, Dark Matter and Archetype Controller restricted

This is only a composite Akuma no Mi/Esper powers, other things their users have isn't included.

 

[Ryuga21]

Are all the logia's abilities restricted or just intangibility?

How does Esper deal with Sugar + Robin combo?

 

[XDragnoir]

Are all the logia's abilities restricted or just intangibility?

How does Esper deal with Sugar + Robin combo?

Logia Devil Fruits aren't included.

Thought based mind hax and teleport.

 

[Inori_Hatsune]

Esper can use Beginning Child ability to changes surroundings into ocean or using mental out to take control akuma no mi user minds.

 

[Ryuga21]

Thought based mind hax and teleport.

None of this would exactly prevent the danger of instant contact that hana hana allows.

Esper can use Beginning Child ability to changes surroundings into ocean or using mental out to take

DF user can just fly. How does mindhax work? Is it thought-based? Btw, the DF user would have his own mindhax (book-book fruit)

 

[Inori_Hatsune]

None of this would exactly prevent the danger of instant contact that hana hana allows.

How hana hana no mi counters teleport? Is hana hana still intact after go through 11th dimension?

Also, I forgot that esper still had black hole creation (kimi holistic esper ability). With Beginning Child ability, this black hole creation will be had no drawback at all.

 

[XDragnoir]

None of this would exactly prevent the danger of instant contact that hana hana allows.

Ehhh, Robin first creates the "base" and then the hands, she doesn't just create the palms out of thin air... and Mind hax is thought based as i said before.

 

[Ryuga21]

Robin doesn't need to fix her hands in the air; the moment she used her power (with her thought) she would be making contact with the target and turning it into a powerless toy. Teleportation is useless to evade this as her power is instantaneous.

Also, I forgot that esper still had black hole creation (kimi holistic esper ability). With Beginning Child ability, this black hole creation will be had no drawback at all.

Giola can just use Reality Warping to turn this black hole into an inoffensive art. Also, Mira Mira no Mi can grant the DF user all of the opponent's powers as well.

 

[Inori_Hatsune]

Giola can just use Reality Warping to turn this black hole into an inoffensive art. Also, Mira Mira no Mi can grant the DF user all of the opponent's powers as well.

How Giola use that ability if the black hole itself is in outer space? Kimi blackhole doesn't create blackhole near the user, but outside the planet. Also, Giola AP need to be solar system level to counters it (since you need solar system ap to stop a blackhole).

And for mira-mira no mi, is that fruit also grant the user to had strong haki skills like the yonko or any other stronger character in one piece? If not, then the power itself just limited to df user which is useless against different kind of power system (since op itself had haki user & df user, I assume that the rules still applied).

 

[Inori_Hatsune]

Robin doesn't need to fix her hands in the air; the moment she used her power (with her thought) she would be making contact with the target and turning it into a powerless toy. Teleportation is useless to evade this as her power is instantaneous

You still dont answer wether hana hana no mi still intact or not after sent into higher dimension. Even her ability can't to counters Kuma teleportation ability.

 

[Inori_Hatsune]

I actually comes up with many esper power possibility.

Beginning child could make abbysal enviroment instantneously which is impossible to evade with (but yea needs a creature that could lives at abbysal nearby).

Meassure heart could make df user doesn't want hurt the esper since it allows the user to think that he/she is someone who close to the target.

Awaki teleportation could literally sent the df user into another place instantneously. Misaki mental out, oh well mind hax.

Hyouka literally cant be hurt by most of conventional weapon and she is from another realm.

I wont include AIM stalker potency which is adds and removing ability since so far theroitically it just limited to esper.

 

[Ryuga21]

Nothing in the series indicates that Mira Mira is limited to copying only powers derived from the Devil Fruit. Brulee when used with it managed to replicate even Luffy's physical attributes (which comes from himself rather than DF). Try to argue with empirical evidence over superstitions.

In fact, I didn't think you were talking about a real black hole. The ability is a bit OP but the DF user can still avoid it with Air Door and other dimensional travel.

You still dont answer wether hana hana no mi still intact or not after sent into higher dimension. Even her ability can't to counters Kuma teleportation ability.

I didn't answer this because it's not necessary. Escaping to a higher dimension would only be a viable way to counter if it was done before Robin thought. Btw, Kuma doesn't use teleportation, it's super speed, and Robin was never countered by him.

 

[Ryuga21]

From what I read and understood from Misaki's profile, her mental ability is derived from the opponent's brain; her profile expressly says that her power only works on ordinarily human brains. If that's the case, it wouldn't work on the DF user since their entire body is biologically altered beyond human standards (Luffy's organs are made of rubber, including his brain; all zoans are brain altered, in addition Chopper has a form that focuses precisely on his brain alteration).

 

[DontTalkDT]

Archetype Controller restricted

Why would you restrict something that isn't an esper power to begin with?

Anyway, Astral Buddy gg. Or can you imagine Move Point used with Level 5 Brain. Or better yet, AIM Stalker used with Level 5 Brain.

 

[Inori_Hatsune]

From what I read and understood from Misaki's profile, her mental ability is derived from the opponent's brain; her profile expressly says that her power only works on ordinarily human brains. If that's the case, it wouldn't work on the DF user since their entire body is biologically altered beyond human standards (Luffy's organs are made of rubber, including his brain; all zoans are brain altered, in addition Chopper has a form that focuses precisely on his brain alteration).

Esper brains is also altered, but Misaki also able control them without much difficulty. Not to mention magicians (which is also had different brain structure) also affected by Misaki ability. So as long as its human or humanoid (thats not supranatural beings), its still affected by misaki ability.

As for Kuma, if it just because he has super speed, then it just even worse for robin since moving point (musujime awaki ability) can teleports someone instanteously. Robin also cant do anything when entire strawhats pirates sent into various place in the world via kuma ability.

If she could counters teleport ability, she should be able make her clone (at least copies of her eyes or ears) around sabondy which is could be use as lifesaver during that time. But she couldnt eventhough she is the last member before luffy that sent out by kuma ability.

 

[Inori_Hatsune]

Nothing in the series indicates that Mira Mira is limited to copying only powers derived from the Devil Fruit. Brulee when used with it managed to replicate even Luffy's physical attributes (which comes from himself rather than DF). Try to argue with empirical evidence over superstitions.

In fact, I didn't think you were talking about a real black hole. The ability is a bit OP but the DF user can still avoid it with Air Door and other dimensional travel.

"Is mira mira could also copies haki ability? ".

This is the most important question because if mira mira are not shown to able copies this ability, then it cant copies another power system. I think the user will be the main target for kurohige if mira mira could copies haki ability. No way kurohige is that ignorant knowing he has intensive knowledge about df.

Also for blackhole, what I mean is real blackhole. Kimi could make a real blackhole in another side of outerspace. Thats why I ask wether Giola AP is solar system or not.

Edit: I forgot that mira mira is brulee df which is not shown able to copy haki ability. So yea, she cant copy esper ability.

 

[XDragnoir]

Nothing in the series indicates that Mira Mira is limited to copying only powers derived from the Devil Fruit. Brulee when used with it managed to replicate even Luffy's physical attributes (which comes from himself rather than DF). Try to argue with empirical evidence over superstitions.

NLF to it's finest? There is literally nothing in OP that does what Esper powers do and you telling me Brulee can copy it because she create a copy of Luffy who can stretch?

 

[XDragnoir]

Why would you restrict something that isn't an esper power to begin with?

Now that you said it, i think AC was never confirmed to be a magic spell or an esper power? I think i just kinda assumed it was an esper power due to how it works.

 

[Ryuga21]

This is the most important question because if mira mira are not shown to able copies this ability, then it cant copies another power system.

Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence. Your entire argument for keeping the Mira Mira no Mi's supposed inability to copy is based on superstition from your head. Prove to me empirically that she can't copy Esper's abilities and is limited to Devil Fruits, also prove to me that she can't copy Haki since you brought that to the table. Bruule copied Luffy's super strength - supernatural ability that comes from a source other than the fruit.

NLF to it's finest? There is literally nothing in OP that does what Esper powers do and you telling me Brulee can copy it because she create a copy of Luffy who can stretch?

Decreasing her feat verbally doesn't disprove that she copied Luffy's powers perfectly by transforming into him, as she even did with Caesar.

Esper brains is also altered, but Misaki also able control them without much difficulty. Not to mention magicians (which is also had different brain structure) also affected by Misaki ability. So as long as its human or humanoid (thats not supranatural beings), its still affected by misaki ability.

How is the brain alteration of those mentioned? Are brains made of meat? Because the current opponent's is not, nor should it resemble the standard structure due to the characteristics of the zoans as I mentioned.

If she could counters teleport ability, she should be able make her clone (at least copies of her eyes or ears) around sabondy which is could be use as lifesaver during that time. But she couldnt eventhough she is the last member before luffy that sent out by kuma ability.

Huh? Again, superstition, Oda didn't want to use this possibility within the character's ontology, "but because it didn't happen then it wasn't possible"? (Logically, it didn't because of script but ontologically it could happen due her powers nature). Lol you argue as if Zoro couldn't use his sword to deflect a cannonball because in Water 7 he cuted them all in half.

 

[DontTalkDT]

Now that you said it, i think AC was never confirmed to be a magic spell or an esper power? I think i just kinda assumed it was an esper power due to how it works.

It never said what it was. Could be some machine for all we know...
I just kinda assumed it wasn't an esper power, because... whose esper power? The Archetype Controller is supposed to belong to Aleister and he clearly isn't an esper. In GT 3 it is indicated that the Archetype Controler is assumed to be gone from the city, now that Aleister is. So it's presumably not something Accelerator could inherit or that would remain in the city without Aleister.

 

[Inori_Hatsune]

Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence. Your entire argument for keeping the Mira Mira no Mi's supposed inability to copy is based on superstition from your head. Prove to me empirically that she can't copy Esper's abilities and is limited to Devil Fruits, also prove to me that she can't copy Haki since you brought that to the table. Bruule copied Luffy's super strength - supernatural ability that comes from a source other than the fruit.

If it never stated or showed in manga then they cant use it, just as simple as that. Its not the superposition.

If you just assume that mira mira could copy haki as well, then I can use the assumption that AIM stalker could make df user powerless because its potential to make someone has esper power or make esper lose all their power which also can be applied to df user as well. But I wont include that because its just theory (its scientific theory in the story) and only applied to esper.

And again, if she could copy others df power, why kurohige targets her? After all, she should be easier taeget than whitebeard. She probably could copy structure of certain human body, but not their supranatural power (haki in one piece) as shown that she never shown able to do that in the story.

If she could, give me the proof that she can copy haki user ability in the stories. At least, at the scale someone above her in term of power scale.

 

[Inori_Hatsune]

How is the brain alteration of those mentioned? Are brains made of meat? Because the current opponent's is not, nor should it resemble the standard structure due to the characteristics of the zoans as I mentioned.

Quotes from toaru wiki of esper personal reality (source of esper power):

"The program's aim is for the student to attain their own Personal Reality, a term referring to normal reality being replaced by a person's own reality,[3] which is the basis for gaining powers that often defy normal reality. Through a series of tests, studies, lectures, medicines, body stimulation (drugs injected directly into a blood vessel, the brain being pierced directly from behind the ears) and hypnosis, a person's brain can be modified so that they can unlock their very own Personal Reality [4][3]"

If zoan user also become animal brain, then it should not be fair match because their intelligence will be drastically reduced. But it never shown, so that means they still retrain their human brains. If df user is Mink or fisherman maybe different story, but it never stated so I just assume this df user is a human.

 

[XDragnoir]

Decreasing her feat verbally doesn't disprove that she copied Luffy's powers perfectly by transforming into him, as she even did with Caesar.

You know there is a massive gap between clones who can shapeshift (as that's all that we saw they do, stretch and copy Caesar's gas lower body) and probability manipulation in quantum scale right?

I am pretty sure burden of proof should fall on you to prove she can copy probability hax not on us to prove she can't.

 

[XDragnoir]

It never said what it was. Could be some machine for all we know...
I just kinda assumed it wasn't an esper power, because... whose esper power? The Archetype Controller is supposed to belong to Aleister and he clearly isn't an esper. In GT 3 it is indicated that the Archetype Controler is assumed to be gone from the city, now that Aleister is. So it's presumably not something Accelerator could inherit or that would remain in the city without Aleister.

Again, i just assumed it was an esper power cause of things like it's name and how it works, there is also things like his body being modified and iirc some of his spells did have some recoil pre aleis-tan, which he "redirected" to his hazards or something like that, but meh, it doesn't change anything here.

 

[Ryuga21]

If it never stated or showed in manga then they cant use it, just as simple as that. Its not the superposition.

It has been shown that she exactly copies the powers of the people she transforms into. Including Devil Fruit powers and supernatural powers such as super strength and speed. Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence. Just because she never copied Haki doesn't mean she can't copies powers that come from sources outside of what she already copied. Just because you've only seen white swans doesn't mean there are no black swans; you need to prove by facts that only white swans exist, and not take your empirical induction true. It is the principle of the inductive fallacy. Prove to me concretely that she can't copy Haki, I'm asking for the thousandth time, once you've stated this, you can certainly prove beyond imagining it. Questioning why Blackbeard didn't go after her fruit proves absolutely nothing about her not being able to copy Haki. Blackbeard didn't go after the Ope Ope no Mi, that doesn't make it any less hax.

You know there is a massive gap between clones who can shapeshift (as that's all that we saw they do, stretch and copy Caesar's gas lower body) and probability manipulation in quantum scale right?

I am pretty sure burden of proof should fall on you to prove she can copy probability hax not on us to prove she can't.

She wasn't limited to Caesar's appearance, Brulee used the same abilities as him because that's how her fruit works (If you read the manga you would see: the whole gas body and the flight were copied too). And she doesn't create clones, she transforms into the person, creating a reflection of them in herself.

It's never been implied anywhere that Brulee can't copy an ability just because it's a probability hax. Simple Syllogism: Brulee transforms into a person and copies their powers > Probability Hax is part of the person she turned into > so Brulee copied it. You need resistance to power mimicry to refute me, not make up nonsense.

 

[XDragnoir]

It's never been implied anywhere that Brulee can't copy an ability just because it's a probability hax. Simple Syllogism: Brulee transforms into a person and copies their powers > Probability Hax is part of the person she turned into > so Brulee copied it. You need resistance to power mimicry to refute me, not make up nonsense.

That's not how the wiki works, we go by feats and statements, her best feats aren't even close to copying things like 11D teleport or real black hole creation, such powers don't even exist in OP, whatever syllogism or whatever you want to use to support that argument it doesn't change that it is a NLF.