Cole Vs Edelweiss

[ShivaShakti]

Pls no

 

[Firephoenixearl]

@Schnee

Kurumi...???

@Pen

Putting your life on the line doesn't mean "throwing it away". I'll give you an example:

"Ikki. The next one will probably going to be our last duel. So I'll swear it now." Stella was staring straight at Ikki. "Even if your life ends from this, I will continue to love you and only you for the rest of my life."

Her most beloved feelings in her would never waver. Ikki smiled at those words.

"-In that case, I really can't lose now."

Here is Ikki vs Stella. They were putting their lives at stake (ikki more in particular) and it wasn't just flowery writing btw, Stella was a walking talking ball of EE at that point, Ikki could have really died. However that is a bit different from this:

Even though the snow didn't melt at air temperature, the sweat that gushed out didn't stop.

She had experienced confrontations against Or=Gaule and Naseem, both were《Desperado》, peculiar beings that transcended fate.

Fear invaded her whole body due to the absolute『death』that existed behind them.

One is just risk, the other is absolute death.

 

[Schnee_One]

Does this will stuff also protect from fatehax of desperado?

Yes, the Fate Hax is literally showing you that you will die if you fight her

That said, Cole can't die, not by Edel's hands anyway

 

[The_pen_or_the_sword]

Uhuh and ainz wouldn't resist because? The description you just gave makes it sound like you need to feel the fear in order for the death hax to work, ainz has emtional and mental immunity to things trying to effect him....and he has a strong will... And his emotions are suppressed...

 

[YungManzi]

Kek, looks like KHR characters have a chance against Rakudai kekekekekekekekeke

 

[PTSOXMONKEY99]

No offense pen, but like, can you save it for his message wall? This really ain't the place for a debate on Ainz's abilities.

 

[Firephoenixearl]

Does this will stuff also protect from fatehax of desperado?

Nope. If you do willpower through the fear of death, it starts to happen.

@Pen

Nah i even gave quotes in the Ainz thread, about it showing you visions and such.

But anyway whatever, just close this thread, getting bored.

 

[The_pen_or_the_sword]

Fair lol aplogies!

Hmm so if edelweis cant put cole down whats her win con here? Seems like a stomp honsetly

You see you described it one way here and another on the ainz thread.

 

[Schnee_One]

Kek, looks like KHR characters have a chance against Rakudai kekekekekekekekeke

Mukuro vs Edel would be neat

 

[Moritzva]

Okay, first off, forceful mind control > forceful scaring someone. Not even a debate, mind control is just an objectively more potent effect.

 

[YungManzi]

Okay, first off, forceful mind control > forceful scaring someone. Not even a debate, mind control is just an objectively more potent effect.

That's not true. There's no objective evidence one is superior to another.

If you can point to it, I'll listen.

 

[Moritzva]

Forcing someone to feel a specific emotion is, in what conceivable world, better than forcing someone to feel any emotion and do anything you want?

 

[ShivaShakti]

Forcing someone to feel a specific emotion is, in what conceivable world, better than forcing someone to feel any emotion and do anything you want?

Versatility =/= Potency

 

[YungManzi]

Forcing someone to feel a specific emotion is, in what conceivable world, better than forcing someone to feel any emotion and do anything you want?

I never said it's better, I argue that they're all equal.

You and Schnee argue otherwise.

 

[Moritzva]

Except that's completely wrong.

Since fear hax inflicting fear is objectively less of an emotional change forcing you to action than literally putting your mind on puppetstrings and forcing them to do what you want.

I would love to see how that's not strictly better potency.

 

[YungManzi]

And controlling someone's mind /= "forcing someone to feel any emotion and do anything you want"

That's nowhere near what happens with most MM.

 

[Moritzva]

And controlling someone's mind /= "forcing someone to feel any emotion and do anything you want"

That's nowhere near what happens with most MM.

If you mind control someone, that's definitionally what it lets you do, albeit varying in exact execution across verses.

 

[The_Wright_Way]

I never said it's better, I argue that they're all equal.

You and Schnee argue otherwise.

You forgot me. I also argue otherwise.

 

[The_pen_or_the_sword]

Ive always taken mind control/manip as more potent then emotional manip, because emotional manip usually only effects a single subset of emotions and it's limited in what effects you can cause with it. While mind control your effecting more/all aspects of a persons mind.

I suppose it's therotically possible for a form mind manip to be weaker then emotional but itd have to be really potent emotional hax and really specific/weak mind hax...

 

[YungManzi]

Okay let's talk about sharingan genjutsu. That doesn't force an emotional change on someone.

Kyouka Suigetsu. Also doesn't do that.

Dio's hypnotism? Nope.

KHR illusions? Also no.

Like, overwriting someone sense of self by controlling their mind directly is the exact same as overwriting their sense of self by enhancing their emotions.

Someone like Tomoki Iwahashi isn't really in full control of the people he mind haxes, as-in, he doesn't control their every action (Nor does he have direct control over them, he just makes everyone look at him favorably). But there's no reason to say his mind hax is weaker than someone who can control every action because he can still completely overwright their sense of self. A loving wife killing her own husband, sacrificing/disowning her kids, then starting a war in his name; is literally something weaker versions of his mind hax is capable of (Which she came up with on her own after seeing him, he never even communicated with her)

I don't see how something like that is weaker as opposed to handing out commands and making others follow them.

There's also the fact that we don't really judge mind hax by what it can do often times anyway.

 

[Firephoenixearl]

Ive always taken mind control/manip as more potent then emotional manip, because emotional manip usually only effects a single subset of emotions and it's limited in what effects you can cause with it. While mind control your effecting more/all aspects of a persons mind.
I suppose it's therotically possible for a form mind manip to be weaker then emotional but itd have to be really potent emotional hax and really specific/weak mind hax...

As Yung said above. That is just versatility, not potency.

That's like saying, a dude who can do math, physics and gym is stronger than someone who does just gym because he does straight up more.

Yes he does "more" in numbers, not in potency. He has more versatility, not potency.

 

[Firephoenixearl]

Though i feel like mind hax debates can go on endlessly without reaching a result no matter which side you feel you can debate more logically.

So eh, you can count this as a stomp for Cole, but imo before this hole gets deeper its better to close this. We just "finished" a mind/soul hax debate that lead to nowhere, really don't need an other like it will go any better.

 

[Schnee_One]

It's a stomp either way yeah, though I think Cole Stomps even if fear is a factor since he can just teleport away regardless.

 

[PTSOXMONKEY99]

Now Cole must prove himself to the other non-smurf high 7-A's to regain his place amongst the top 5, like a true anime protagonist

 

[Firephoenixearl]

Cole has that bio drain thing right?

 

[Schnee_One]

Yes, and in this version it stretches kilometers

 

[PTSOXMONKEY99]

To add to that, it's usually followed by by a blast of Ray Field radiation that negs dura in like 2 ways.

 

[Schnee_One]

Now Cole must prove himself to the other non-smurf high 7-A's to regain his place amongst the top 5, like a true anime protagonist

Rakudai may take the spot back depending on what happens, Edelweiss herself isn't the most haxed in the verse IIRC, just the canonical strongest

 

[Firephoenixearl]

Rakudai may take the spot back depending on what happens, Edelweiss herself isn't the most haxed in the verse IIRC, just the canonical strongest

Edelweiss is just Ikki but with desperado hax. Though ikki literally fairs better in every case if desperado hax isn't a factor.

 

[Schnee_One]

Yeah, if they are to take by High 7A Nene Saikyou will have to get back to High 7A and have her BFR

 

[Firephoenixearl]

Yeah, if they are to take by High 7A Nene Saikyou will have to get back to High 7A and have her BFR

There is Nene, Kurono, hell even Stella since she has ways past his regen, Or Gaule.

 

[Schnee_One]

Stella gets annihilated until she shows more Desperado stuff. Kuruno doesn't use her Erasure in character either.

Nene is the best contender really.

 

[Schnee_One]

Anyway, if you want to talk more you can come to my wall, this is a stomp