Cole MacGrath vs. Dante

[Schnee_One]

Dante time stops and seals instantly and Cole can't really counter that

 

[Tony_di_bugalu]

A mismatch either way?

 

[Schnee_One]

Depends really, like I said on the Mio Takamiya vs Dante thread I don't think shooting first is a stomp, but both Dante and Grath disagree.

 

[Tony_di_bugalu]

I mean, its not about shooting, it's about having a nigh instant ability that let's you win without the opponent being able to do anything to stop it and both threads fall on the same thing, with speed equal she thinks while Dante tries to cross the distance and gets law haxed, here he either gets destroyed by that AP gap or loltimestops.

 

[Schnee_One]

There's not much distance crossing to be done since they're 12 meters away.

 

[Tony_di_bugalu]

Here, yes but is the same as he stops time with a thought, with Mio is the same thing, she thinks and he is done for

 

[Schnee_One]

I don't get what you mean, I think you're discussing a different point

What I said was neither had to cross any distance.

 

[Tony_di_bugalu]

The thing is that this is a mismatch

 

[Schnee_One]

Yes, but I don't know if its a stomp

 

[Tony_di_bugalu]

Not bloodlusted: Dante gets destroyed in CQC and killed before he tries to seal.

Bloodlusted: Time stop, Dante goes ham on him, nothing works, seal/BFR GG with Cole being able to do nothing to stop it.

I think is a stop either way.

 

[Schnee_One]

That's the thing though, Dante can in fact time stop and seal him and Cole would lose, it's just Dante wouldn't do it immediately.

The previous match was fine but here...……..I mean its either a bad match or a stomp

 

[PTSOXMONKEY99]

After reading the title, I was initially gonna say Dante via time stop and versatility, but after reading through some of the comments I'm not so sure anymore.

With both bloodlusted, it just really depends on who shoots what. Cole is probably gonna open with Lightning Storm, but it gets countered hard by time stop.

Really don't know how this'll go.

 

[Tony_di_bugalu]

Uhhh, bloodlusted means insta time stop and since it works on thought...

Non bloodlusted means Dante gets destroyed in AP

 

[Schnee_One]

It isn't thought based s I found out, he has to hit the ground or do a pose

 

[Tony_di_bugalu]

I remember being able to use it without the need for the animation

I could check in a few hours and take a video with my phone

 

[PTSOXMONKEY99]

Even then, Im pretty sure he can pose just as fast as Cole can swing his arms.

Both may require a motion, but one activates instantly, whereas Cole's still has travel time.

 

[DarkGrath]

If I remember correctly, the whole "pose" was more of just a style thing for Dante. If you try and activate it while already in another animation, then it'll activate instantly without the need for the pose. Considering that they are bloodlusted, Dante wouldn't bother with style if it put him at a disadvantage, so it'd practically be instant.

 

[Schnee_One]

I do need proof otherwise though I doubt it matters

All in all though I should make a thread regarding shooting fast

 

[Tony_di_bugalu]

Welp, I'm home without homework right now, gimme time to find my ps2 and try to boot the game up

 

[DarkGrath]

Yeah, Tony mentioned he'd try and get it. And to be honest, I'm not absolutely 100% certain about it, I'm just pretty positive I remember. So I'm not expecting you to just take my word for it.

 

[Tony_di_bugalu]

I'm just pretty positive I remember.

Same here

 

[Tony_di_bugalu]

So, uhh, how do I upload a video here?

Welp, in any case Garg is right, during the gameplay I was trying to use it while being mid combo (or trying to, I suck after all these years) and while Dante can change weapons more easily he needs to do an animation too. This coupled with the fact that you can stop the bangle without another animation leads me to believe it is a hardware limitation and since it is the first game of the franchise mechanics are not as polished like DMC3 for example.

But changes nothing here as both need to move and Dante has more time.

 

[Lightning_XXI]

And while jumping/on air ?

 

[Schnee_One]

He still needs to spread his arms

 

[Tony_di_bugalu]

And while jumping/on air ?

Nope

 

[Tony_di_bugalu]

He still needs to spread his arms

Still enough time to stop Cole dead on his track and do everything he needs to do

 

[Schnee_One]

Cole can do the same and throw a bolt that insta kills Dante tho

 

[Tony_di_bugalu]

Dante is likely faster, the bolt needs to travel a certain distance and cole has do to the gesture to throw it AFAIK while Dante just does a pose and bam, time stop gg

 

[Schnee_One]

He's not tho

Speed is unequal, Cole is faster, and Cole's Precision will Amp him to where Dante is a crawl

 

[The_Wright_Way]

Oh hey, I actually forgot speed wasn't equal.

 

[Tony_di_bugalu]

Cole scales to 1180 mach, nevan IIRC scales to the general speed which is 1200, that was DMC3 Dante, he casually deals with Griffom who should be faster and uses lighting too.

Perception thingy isn't passive, so he needs to actively use it and to throw the bolt he needs to do a gesture.

In the end Dante has more time and once time stop is on the battle is over.

 

[The_Wright_Way]

Perception is thought based and it slows people as fast as Cole down to a crawl though.

 

[Schnee_One]

Actively throwing a bolt is literally what triggers perception, they are one in the same

Nevan is Mach 1000

Cole is faster

 

[Lightning_XXI]

Lightning is Mach 1294 I believe

DMC characters doesn't scale only to Nevan in speed, we have lower beings who are already on Massively Hypersonic+ range by being a living lightning, which is Blitz, a 8-C fodder foot soldier, DMC1 Dante is much, muuuch superior to him

 

[Schnee_One]

Reacting to lightning however, is not Mach 1294.

Superior in strength, not speed, speed scaling isn't accepted as silly as that is, though Cole's scaling well above commanding lightning at the beginning of the game so he wins there too.

 

[PTSOXMONKEY99]

The way I see it, if both bloodlusted, then it probably goes something like this:

Dante starts waving his hands to stop time

Cole starts off with precision and karmic overload activated, making Dante's arm waving motion look like its moving at a snails pace, giving him enough time to blast him with bolts that are faster and stronger than his normal bolts.

Keep in mind that Cole can normally keep up with people who're casually faster than lightning, and with precision mode, can make them seem like they're moving in slow motion.

 

[Lightning_XXI]

So...are you really saying that the most powerful demons of the underworld serving Mundus as generals are slower than a pathetic 8-C little fodder, that can be casually defeated by pre DT Nero, described as a foot soldier for Mundus, and being a normal enemy in game ? We have lightning statements from even weaker demons like the Puia. Calling a scalling made by me and accepted by Knight, Tony, Glass and Dark as "silly" is...eh, make a CRT if you think it needs

I'm leaving this

 

[Schnee_One]

Said 8C fodder doesn't at all scale to Blaze's, they're even considered higher level demons, and can even harms that of the cast. Plus, being stronger, doesn't make you faster, I mean seriously, how many series have Speedsters? Marvels quicksilver? DCs Flash?

I don't need to make a CRT, MHS+ is legit, but saying that Dante scales super well above then in speed through sheer strength is like saying Cole is High end MHS+ because even the weakest semi awakened Fodders can do that.

If you're going to use that logic for Dante, don't dismiss it for Cole.

The two are even in speed, and Cole has way more actual speed amps.

 

[PTSOXMONKEY99]

So yeah, this is turning out fun

 

[PTSOXMONKEY99]

I was gonna ask if using Donte would make this fairer but then I realized that takes us right back to square 1 of the problem with this matchup