Cocotte and Android 18 Speed Upgrade and Possible Tier Upgrade

[MeleeniumRXJ]

Let's start with the speed as I think it's more conclusive than the tier upgrade. Shouldn't Cocotte's speed be Massively FTL+ based on her reacting to Kale and Caulifla's combined beam? She and her teammates were beam clashing with them and when they lost the clash, the beam was heading towards them at full speed. Cocotte clearly saw it coming and reacted by putting a barrier up. I'd say that's a solid scaling to MFTL+.

As for the tier upgrade to 3-A, well again, it's the beam clash it self that's in question. Since it was a 4vs2 beam clash, it's less conclusive. But still, she had a beam clash with two other 3-A characters and it was someone even for a bit until Kale went Berserk.

Needless to say, 18 would scale to both of these as she directly scales to Cocotte.

 

[Dark649]

No, PIS is very present in Super, she knew that the attacks were coming and helped against the beam, even a much weaker character can help against beam struggles.

Cocotte, Ganos, 18, Krillin, Roshi, Tien and Buu will not be upgraded to MFTL+ 3-A until something more solid for them will be shown.

 

[MeleeniumRXJ]

A star level character helping in a beam struggle against two universe level characters? Yeah, she'd be about as helpful as a single water molecule putting out a forest fire. And there shouldn't be any way for her to react to the beam coming after the clash broke.

I hope some more people share what they think of this.

 

[AKM sama]

Since it was a beam struggle, I think we can't gauge the accurate speed of the beams to which Cocotte reacted.

And what Dark said. I totally agree with him.

 

[TheJ-ManRequiem]

>implying Roshi ain't tier 3.

Roshi is absolutely tier 3, mafuba hax is no joke ovo .

 

[MeleeniumRXJ]

Since it was a beam struggle, I think we can't gauge the accurate speed of the beams to which Cocotte reacted.

The beam struggle stopped though and Kale and Caulifla's beam was heading towards them at full speed.

 

[RageComment]

In light of new information, I believe 18 and Cocotte should be upgraded to 3-A

18 is soon to be swapping hands with Ribrianne, who is scaled to be 3-A. And since she hasn't gotten any more powerful than earlier, Cocotte scales.

 

[Dark649]

Yes, 18 fighting Ribrianne will upgrade her along with Krillin, Roshi, Ganos, Tien and Skinny Buu.

 

[TheJ-ManRequiem]

Why everyone? Itd only be her and none are above her. Excluding buu . I think.

 

[Dark649]

Because Krillin defeated Majora, who defeated 18. Roshi performed better than Krillin, Tien took a hit from Mystic Gohan and harmed a 3-A fighter that destroyed Piccolo arms, Ganos because he fought Base Goku like Skinny Buu.

 

[RM97]

Krillin had to Cheat to win against Majora and 18 was beating Majora up untill he played possum and caught her off guard....

 

[Dark649]

It does not matter since if Krillin below them [they are comparable in profiles], his kamehameha would have did nothing to Majora, Krillin took his from Majora and the latter knocked 18.

 

[Steel_Justice]

18 I agree, but that of Krillin and the other humans should be considered PIS.

 

[Dark649]

We have Piccolo and Gohan, who jumped from tier High 4-C+ and 4-B to 3-A after a small period of time for the U6 Tournament. And 18, who suddendly will jump from High 4-C to 3-A.

 

[PostmodernD]

All that strikes me as PIS, but Super don't give no craps about progression or scaling. So it doesn't really matter, if they did the thing they did the thing.

 

[RM97]

18 was caught off guard by Majora and hence he was able to hurt her. Not saying she isn't 3-A but the scaling for Krillin and others are Bad and includes some PIS.

Like Tien taking hits from Base Gohan but was fodder to him. Gohan was likely holding back otherwise going all out would kill him.

Ganos too was getting rekt by Base Goku and he wasn't going all out in base (Which seems plausible considering he has a bad habit of holding back). If you say "Ganos took hits from Base Goku so he should be Universal" then I guess Monaka would be Universal too for Tanking Base Goku's punch to the Face.

Roshi performed better than krillin but that Association Fallacy since we don't know how the Rest of the U4 fighters who faced Roshi compares to the ones who faced Krillin. And also there's this Tournament of Power Guidebook which states Krillin being the strongest Earthling aka Human. It was translated by Herms

Tien taking out someone who could cut off Piccolo's arm can be chalked up as PIS. Or maybe the other guy (Forgot the name) who was redirecting the attack could've amped up the attack from the Sniper.

 

[Dark649]

If Majora was not 3-A, he would have not hurt 18 even if she was off guard and she would have been eliminated if it wasn't for Krillin, who damaged and eliminated Majora.

 

[RM97]

Bro DBS don't care about that logic. You have off guard Goku getting Penetrated by Laser. Universal Laser confirmed????

I have no problem with 3-A krillin and others. Just that all these seems like Outliers/PIS imo.

 

[Dark649]

We accepted PIS like the 4-B to 3-A upgrades and those who scales in general like Piccolo being 3-A for fighting Frost, who was fighting Goku, who absorbed SSG power in base.

 

[PostmodernD]

This isn't even new for the Dragonball franchise. People knock back people outside their league all the time or survive being one shotted when they very well should.

That being said, these guys are more consistently doing the things.

 

[RM97]

Also the episode isn't even out yet. Let's wait and see and then the staff can do upgrades (or not).

 

[RM97]

Piccolo had time to train tho. Even a short amount of training is deadly in DBS xD

 

[RM97]

Oh nvm my prev comments. I confused Sosha with Majora. Welp.

 

[Dark649]

Piccolo had time to train tho. Even a short amount of training is deadly in DBS xD

Yup, it seems that these super only [the other not because they tried to maintain more power logic] massive jumps can apply to everyone.......

 

[Ssr4vegito]

Krilin becoming 3A is fine since Tien destroyed a massive chunk of super katchin

 

[MeleeniumRXJ]

If Majora was not 3-A, he would have not hurt 18 even if she was off guard and she would have been eliminated if it wasn't for Krillin, who damaged and eliminated Majora.

Being off guard can make someone bullet level in Dragon Ball. Let's not forget that. Though I still agree to scaling 18 to 3-A, but perhaps we should wait until the next episode airs first to play it safe.

 

[PostmodernD]

Waiting for contact is good, but if this show has taught me anything, it's that if it looks like a power jump happened. It probably happened.

 

[AKM sama]

Yes, we should wait for the next episode. Anything could happen.

 

[RageComment]

Has this been settled yet?

 

[PostmodernD]

Matt closed another thread discussing this issue.

 

[MeleeniumRXJ]

On another note, should Brianne's base form be scaled to High 4-C since she was able to restrain 18?

 

[Golden_Void]

The pride trooper beam struggle...how is that star level? Kale and Caulifla are way beyond U6 KKx10 SSB Goku, who is already 10x stronger than his innumeral amount over baseline universal.

 

[AKM sama]

I am neutral about 18. Seems like she just jumped from High 4-C to 3-A with no training and no logical explanation, just because plot. So maybe, it can be chalked up as PIS.

 

[RageComment]

Pretty much all of DBS would be PIS then. The Saiyans from U6 never did a god ritual, yet Cabba's base was near Vegeta's base? A few hours of Training got so many characters to Universal already. Freeza went from Dwarf Star to Universal in a few weeks/months. Most of the characters from other universes, are introduced to the story as near Universal. DBS doesn't really rely on good narrative explainations for increases in power. They are trying to balance things out to be more entertaining after DBZ and Battle of Gods turned everyone into Fodder compared to Goku.

 

[AKM sama]

I know but at least there are some reasons for them. Some trained, while others had that kind of potential. Some others were strong right from their introduction.

But there is no reason for 18 other than plot. If she was "training in secret" for all these years, I wouldn't have any problems. But right now it seems like PIS to me.

 

[MeleeniumRXJ]

Not saying there's any evidence for this whatsoever, but a really cool explanation would be 17 and 18's powers are linked. If one gets stronger, then so does the other. Toei, if you're reading this, make it a thing!

 

[RageComment]

That would be very strange and most fans would hate that if it was ever a thing.

 

[Aeyu]

I still stand behind a "Possibly 3-A," rating since it's more consistent than Goku sparring with Buu or the other instances of PIS. Ribrianne went ALL OUT against 18. Goku did not do the same in his base vs Buu. It cannot even be argued that Ribrianne was "holding back".

 

[Mania568]

i agree with Aeyu, possibly 3-A would be a solution for her situation over defeating ribrianne