Characters with Omniverse Class Feats

[Lightbuster30]

See here is the thing: I see a bunch of characters with "Omniverse" feats thrown out the window. Now this isn't much of an issue, I can agree with why Omniverse is given the treatmemt it is. However, I personally believe that if an Omniverse is depicted as the totality of all there is within the setting of a verse, and someone does something to it, then they should get a rating for it.

Lets say a character can destroy an Omniverse. Ok, not much to go on. Now, what if this Omniverse encompasses 1-A space? They can destroy the Omniverse, and everything in it, which would logically include the 1-A space, as it is contained by the Omniverse.

I think that for certain characters, Omniverse statements should be assigned a Tier, which would be based on the structure of said Omniverse. However, this should only happen if they legitimately are "Omniverse Level", and even then their tier would be based on how complex their Omniverse is.

 

[Antvasima]

We cannot do so. Marvel and DC are the only ones who use the term, and they recurrently do so in a very sloppy and inconsistent manner. For example Al Ewing, the writer of Ultimates, admitted himself that he used it as a synonym for the multiverse simply because it sounded cool.

 

[Promestein]

He's not saying to give Omniverse a consistent definition, and Marvel and DC are definitely not the only ones that use the term. It entirely depends on the context of the verse.

 

[Antvasima]

Well, the term was coined by the later Marvel editor and Quasar writer Mark Gruenwald, and not even he kept the term straight. As such, we cannot assign a consistent definition to it even within Marvel itself.

Anyway, I don't remember it being used outside of a few western superhero comicbooks.

 

[Promestein]

Marvel wasn't even brought up in the original post?

I mean, it's not like you know all of fiction. It's a fairly common term.

 

[Antvasima]

Can you name examples of it being used outside of superhero fiction? Especially non-western verses, because I cannot recall seeing it there.

 

[Promestein]

I don't keep track of everywhere it's mentioned because it's not relevant but it's not really a rare term and the scope of its usage isn't relevant to the thread so we shouldn't get sidetracked.

Just judge it on a case-by-case basis, easy, done

 

[Antvasima]

Anyway, my point is just that the term is too inconsistent in its usage to be defined properly even within a setting.

For example, Marvel has used it to either refer to infinite parallel universes, all of fiction and reality combined, or Multi-Eternity (without including anything beyond that, such as the realm of the Beyonders, or the First Firmament).

 

[Promestein]

It can easily be defined properly and consistently within a setting. The portrayal of omniverses in other fictions and their definitions is entirely irrelevant to its usages in other fictions. Marvel is extremely inconsistent, as you yourself state all the time, so its not really a good basis to judge the term's consistency within all of fiction.

 

[Antvasima]

Case-by-case basis is probably fine, but it has been inconsistently used even within the same settings.

 

[Antvasima]

You write very quickly btw. Or perhaps it is just because I use a tablet.

 

[Promestein]

That doesn't dismiss its consistent definition in every setting. If its inconsistent in one setting, analyze it in that context and find the most consistent definition, or if it's far too inconsistent to bother, just disregard it and analyze the feats within that verse on a case-by-case basis.

I'm a fast typer. 99.5% percentile according to Typeracer.

 

[Antvasima]

Anyway, any time somebody would use the term to refer to all of fiction and reality combined, it would obviously be hyperbole.

We cannot rate any character who "shook or destroyed the omniverse" as tier 0 or -1, due to scaling from Azathoth or the reality that we live in.

 

[Promestein]

I mean, yeah, clearly, that's not what I'm saying at all. As with all cases, if something says "all of fiction and reality combined", regardless of whether they say omniverse or hyperverse or whatever, we judge the feat based on what the verse's cosmology has shown. It could be 2-A or High 1-C or 1-B or 1-A. Completely depends on the context, we're not going to swing to making everyone 0 because we don't throw the term Omniverse out of the window in every context.

 

[Antvasima]

Well, in the original definition it might be "-1", in Quasar it would be 2-A, and in the Ultimates it would be High 1-B.

But other times we do not know exactly what is intended, as the cosmology has not been well defined enough.

 

[Antvasima]

I mean, yeah, clearly, that's not what I'm saying at all. As with all cases, if something says "all of fiction and reality combined", regardless of whether they say omniverse or hyperverse or whatever, we judge the feat based on what the verse's cosmology has shown. It could be 2-A or High 1-C or 1-B or 1-A. Completely depends on the context, we're not going to swing to making everyone 0 because we don't throw the term Omniverse out of the window in every context.

Okay.

 

[Promestein]

If we don't now what Omniverse means in the context just give it 2-C or 2-B or something just like how we go with Multiverse.

 

[Antvasima]

I am uncertain, as I do not like to use guesswork. I prefer unknown ratings if we have no idea what is intended.

 

[Promestein]

I guess that's fair too.

 

[Antvasima]

Okay. We seem to have come to an agreement then.

 

[Lightbuster30]

Can you name examples of it being used outside of superhero fiction? Especially non-western verses, because I cannot recall seeing it there.

Doctor Who, and the comic with Mother of Existence, Transforners used it once. Thats a few off tbe top of my head. Granted at least two of them can be considered "superhero" fiction, but still. I think Marvel and DC have issues due to multiple writers, and continuties, thus creating confusion when Omniverse refers to their totality, or the local multiverse. But smaller continuties wouldn't really have that issue.

I mean, there are a few franchises out there with the term "multiverse", yet in actuality they are way beyond that. Hell, Masadaverse God Tiers have "Universes" even though said universes are actually Outerverses. If we can do that for Universe and Multiverse, then why is Omniverse an exception? Obviously it would have to be very case by case, but I think it could be done. I'm just suggesting we not throw it completely out the window.

 

[Antvasima]

Okay. I am just saying that it is usually hard to know what is intended with the term.

 

[Osmar117]

I always put the term omniverse as the whole verse of it "obvious if this work shows that size according to the level of its characters"

for now, those that would be omniverse for me would be verses with characters that are in tier 1 "being more especially the characters 1-A"
ex:
marvel / DC "vertigo"
umineko
demonbane "cuthulu mythos"
Shinza Bansho "Dies Irae / KKK / Paraside Lost"
dark tower "stephen king verse"
DR.who
and a great etc

obviously it opened more and well what would happen with the verses of characters less than tier 1? (Well, if they are lesser, their verses would be the following tier eg: in dragon ball they handle the multiverse as there are different works within the same verse as heroes, manga, anime, xenoverses, etc., so the largest size of their verse would be multiversal complex)

and what happens if a character destroys an omniverse because I would consider it a tier 0 "which could be a matter of being level 0 or not" (obviously if there is no being that prevents me from doing that as TOAA with thanos) but that if your entire verse would have to be loaded "like a box it is not enough to load everything you do inside the crap you have to load the box too" and obviously you would stay in the vacuum and you could die

"Although in the work I write there are other omniverses so there are other places that you can go to go to other franchises"
Ex: in my work I explain why the reason that DC and Marvel do crossovers is that their omniverses are together side by side "as if they were universes"

I do know that omni would be to have everything but as the term would be like that of omnipotence and the other omni-abilities "it would only be omni within its range osae its verse and leaving other verses like other worlds completely different from yours" (since everything what happens / create / destroy / alter etc. in said omniverse would only affect said franchise, so it cannot affect other franchises anymore)

unless a character moves from one franchise to another "obvious if nobody stops his step before"

for this topic you could explain me better since in my work I have tried to solve on these types of topics

 

[Antvasima]

This is an old thread. We usually try to avoid reopening such old topics.