Characters with AP purely from creation - Is it combat applicable?

[Agnaa]

I've noticed that a few characters have AP from creation, even though they don't seem to have a way to apply it, such as Spooky, The Narrator (The Stanley Parable), and a profile I made, Ougi Oshino.

All three of these have AP from creating buildings of varying sizes, but they don't seem to have a way to apply that AP. They don't have other energy based attacks, it doesn't seem to scale to them physically. Spooky and The Narrator have a wide variety of hax to win with, but all of these seem to be AP-independent.

Even strangers is that when threads are made for these characters, their tiers are specified, as if their creation AP could let them damage their opponent.

This thread is not about whether creation is applicable for AP, but about whether AP from creation with no way to apply it to other abilities is usable in combat.

 

[Wokistan]

Probably not, though those guys specifically may have a way of applying that neither of us know about. If someone's just got creation with no other attacks and no reason to scale physically, guess that its just not useful unless they telefrag people or something.

 

[Agnaa]

Bump.

 

[Kaltias]

Clearly the combat applicable method is creating buildings on top of the opponent ovo.

But yeah pretty much what Woki said.

 

[Agnaa]

So should it be assumed that they can telefrag people for their tier? Or should they get some sort of note that their AP's not combat applicable?

 

[Kaltias]

Dunno. It's essentially environmentally destruction, but with creation powers

 

[Agnaa]

Yeah that's a good way to put it.

 

[Agnaa]

Buuuuump.

 

[Chartate101]

ƒà▒´©Åump

 

[Agnaa]

SUTA PARACHINA: ZA BUMPO (credit to @chartate101)

 

[DMB_1]

Heavily depends in how the Creation feat is portrayed:

If the character is described as extremly powerful compared to other characters, or if said power he used to create can also be used to destroy, thein it most likely does scale.

If the character however is shown to be harmed by much weaker things, or if his creation is just a particular ability/hax unrelated to raw power, or if the character can only create very specific things, then it most likely doesn't.

We should re-make the creation page tbh.

 

[Agnaa]

Each of these three characters isn't shown or described to be extremely physically powerful, but none of them are harmed by weaker things either. One of them is non-corporeal, one of them is never witnessed physically, and one of them only ever gets attacked by a character that negates durability.

So none of these characters have it assumed to be related to their physical AP, but rather their ability AP, but none of them have any other ways to apply that ability AP; their other abilities don't care about AP/dura.

 

[Hellbeast1]

Hmm I feel there's a lot of revisions to have regarding creation feats in general. I'll come back with what I think i a mo

 

[Agnaa]

Bump.

 

[Antvasima]

I would appreciate further community input.

 

[Dargoo_Faust]

I'm actually working on a revision of the Creation page with the most recent CRT I made which includes this disclaimer:

"Creation feats are treated as feats of Attack Potency on this wiki. This is because, near-universally in reality, creating an object from separate, smaller objects or energy often takes just as much, if not more energy than destroying said object.

Note that this only applies to the character's capacity to harm other characters if their Creation is connected to their other abilities; for example, it can be reasoned that a mage who can conjure a city with little mana can destroy one with the same amount of mana, however a character who can create objects without other ways of harming their opponents wouldn't be able to harness that power to hurt another character, and would fall under a light form of Environmental Destruction."

 

[Agnaa]

So how would these pages need to be revised in light of that?

 

[Dargoo_Faust]

I wouldn't change the AP, actually, however you could reason that they wouldn't be able to harm other characters with similar AP/Dura as they have no way to use that AP in combat.

You could add ED. That put we have not hit revising the creation page on the checklist for the other thread, we're really stuck on calcing the feats to begin with.

 

[Agnaa]

So would The Narrator's tier go to Unknown, Spooky's tier to 9-A, and Ougi's tier to 10-A?

Or are you suggesting a note somewhere that it's not combat applicable?

 

[Dargoo_Faust]

The latter. The AP/Tier would remain the same, however it would not be combat applicable.

Esentially Environmental Destruction.

 

[Agnaa]

A few people have brought up that idea so far, so it sounds good.

 

[Dargoo_Faust]

I'll shoot you back when we're talking about the Creation page revisions. Later I can also send you a draft of what I have in mind for the page.