Characters cannot reasonably be scaled to Javelins of Light (Fire Emblem: Three Houses)

[DemonGodMitchAubin]

I agree with DarkDragonMedeus when it comes to the Javelins

 

[Armorchompy]

I'm thinking I agree with The Smashor, actually.

 

[The_Smashor]

Bump

 

[The_Smashor]

Bump

 

[The_Smashor]

Slightly early bump

 

[DemonGodMitchAubin]

Still do not agree with the downgrade, this is a classic case of AOE Fallacy

 

[The_Smashor]

Still do not agree with the downgrade, this is a classic case of AOE Fallacy

AOE Fallacy isn't the only reason, though. And more context shows that it's not just that.

Did you read my original post?

 

[Cyberblader90]

thought this was rejected?

 

[DemonGodMitchAubin]

I don't agree with the Jeritza or Rhea point either

Dude could have clearly been referring to all the fodder soldiers and not Byleth himself

 

[The_Smashor]

I don't agree with the Jeritza or Rhea point either

Dude could have clearly been referring to all the fodder soldiers and not Byleth himself

I mentioned that in the op as well.

All he cares about is fighting Byleth. If he and Byleth would survive, he wouldn't care about anyone else.

Once again, did you actually read it? And can you please explain why you disagree instead of just saying you disagree?

 

[TheGatememer]

I still stand by my original statement of Sothis surviving the country busting Javelins.

and I still feel that the Javelins were really just downplayed for the sake of a cutscene, since saying that Javelins of Light got like thousands of times weaker in a span of at most 80 years seems… not right.

While I’d rather not bring another verse into this, I kind of think of this like how in TF2, 3 Soldier Rockets from meet the medic caused a massive explosion, when ingame, 3 rockets wouldn’t create a blast anywhere near as big. They are the same rockets, but just create different sized explosions for whatever reason. Kind of like how Javelins of Light don’t cause explosions anywhere near as large in cutscenes, while in lore they are the same Javelins that busted countries and created a giant lava pit of hell.

 

[The_Smashor]

I still stand by my original statement of Sothis surviving the country busting Javelins.

Once again, Byleth needs help to beat Rhea, who is much weaker than Sothis, so it's not reasonable to scale Byleth to Sothis completely.

and I still feel that the Javelins were really just downplayed for the sake of a cutscene, since saying that Javelins of Light got like thousands of times weaker in a span of at most 80 years seems… not right.

This isn't what I assume. My assumption is that there's simply javelins with different levels of power. Sometimes you may want to destroy a city without destroying the entire country around it. Not to mention, the power may vary depending on the magical strength of the caster, similar to other types of magic in the series.

The Javelins are weapons of destruction made to destroy things. There's literally no reason why Thales wouldn't just nuke the entire country since it would accomplish his goals and he was already willing to destroy his home, so maybe TWSITD have a limited number of country destroying Javelins or Thales is a weaker caster than the original Agarthans. These are not unreasonable assumptions to make, espesially since TWSITD are clearly weaker than the original Agarthans.

While I’d rather not bring another verse into this, I kind of think of this like how in TF2, 3 Soldier Rockets from meet the medic caused a massive explosion, when ingame, 3 rockets wouldn’t create a blast anywhere near as big. They are the same rockets, but just create different sized explosions for whatever reason. Kind of like how Javelins of Light don’t cause explosions anywhere near as large in cutscenes, while in lore they are the same Javelins that busted countries and created a giant lava pit of hell.

I should note we don't see a "giant lava pit of hell" in any of the places where the Javelins are fired during the events of the game itself, further supporting that these Javelins are weaker.

This is also a very different situation from TF2, as in TF2 we directly see the mercs survive 9-A explosions, while we never see anyone from FE tank explosions that are tier 6 through size alone.

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

Actually, the fact that the blast radius appears smaller just means the target is absorbing most of the impact. Explosions are bigger if very little amount of its impact is being absorbed by its target(s). The explosion appearing much smaller than normal as it detonates inside the Rhea's mouth is actually an indicator that Rhea was absorbing most of the impact. Also, the Valley of Torment feat was done via a single pillar of light, which a pillar only uses a few nukes normally.

Also again, all Javelins are just identical copies of itself; there's no reason to assume they're weaker as all Javelins were developed around the same time and were designed for the same purpose. This isn't the case of comparing carpet bombs to the Fat Boy Bomb, this is more like comparing Tsar Bombas to Tsar Bombas.

Also, I agree with Mitch regarding the Jeritza point.

 

[The_Smashor]

Actually, the fact that the blast radius appears smaller just means the target is absorbing most of the impact. Explosions are bigger if very little amount of its impact is being absorbed by its target(s). The explosion appearing much smaller than normal as it detonates inside the Rhea's mouth is actually an indicator that Rhea was absorbing most of the impact. Also, the Valley of Torment feat was done via a single pillar of light, which a pillar only uses a few nukes normally.

OK. That dosn't discredit all the other stuff I said. Also that dosn't make any sense, since there's no way for Fort Merceus to have absorbed a tier 6 impact on it's own. Not to mention the ceiling of Shambala, or the missiles that didn't hit Rhea. If your theory was true, then the missiles that didn't hit Rhea would have just destroyed Fodlan, and the missiles that didn't hit Rhea are an overwhelming majority of the ones we see in the story.

Also again, all Javelins are just identical copies of itself; there's no reason to assume they're weaker as all Javelins were developed around the same time and were designed for the same purpose. This isn't the case of comparing carpet bombs to the Fat Boy Bomb, this is more like comparing Tsar Bombas to Tsar Bombas.

OK, but the sizes of the explosions say otherwise. We also don't see evidence of the lava land that the Javelins made in the Valley of Torment for any of the Javelins that are used in the story, further implying they aren't as strong.

It honestly feels like you're not reading my arguments.

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

I also still brought up a lot of other points there weren't refuted above; the ceiling of Shambala is still made of materials far more durable than real world materials as was Fort Merceus. But even so, this is more so the case of Star Wars Tie Fighters having inconsistent explosion sizes.

Again, Javelins of Light are a magical energy source that has energy that can be controlled. It's not an actual "Nuke" that people keep calling them, they're just Javelins with magically enhanced superpowers that can either be very destructive or strike with precision to injure otherwise heavily durable foes. I am reading them as are a lot of people, they just simply do not hold up and also asking us to prove a negative.

 

[The_Smashor]

I also still brought up a lot of other points there weren't refuted above; the ceiling of Shambala is still made of materials far more durable than real world materials as was Fort Merceus. But even so, this is more so the case of Star Wars Tie Fighters having inconsistent explosion sizes.

Tier 7 and Tier 6 is a pretty ******' big difference, while I'm pretty sure the biggest difference between Tie Fighter explosions are probably like a few tons of TNT at most. And once again, Fort Merceus is just made of regular materials.

Again, Javelins of Light are a magical energy source that has energy that can be controlled. It's not an actual "Nuke" that people keep calling them, they're just Javelins with magically enhanced superpowers that can either be very destructive or strike with precision to injure otherwise heavily durable foes.

OK, so like all other magic in Fire Emblem, the magic would vary depending on the user.

Also, there's pretty much no evidence of that, since once again, Thales probably would just wanna nuke all of Fodlan if he could in the situation he used them, and yet even the territory he was in was mostly fine.

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

Tie Fighters have calcs ranging from 8-C to 7-C+, so that's an even bigger gap. Also, Fort Merceus is actually designed using Mythril and the like and is one of the most durable strongholds in the series.

Thales is one of the strongest magic users in the series, and his goal was a last resort to kill Byleth out of vengeance and desperation. I do not need to prove that "Javelins of Light have randomly varied power levels", they're all the same thing being Javelins of Light. It's them having copies that vary in tier that would require more evidence then them just being copies of the same thing.

 

[The_Smashor]

Tie Fighters have calcs ranging from 8-C to 7-C+, so that's an even bigger gap. Also, Fort Merceus is actually designed using Mythril and the like and is one of the most durable strongholds in the series.

The gap between 8-C and 7-C is smaller than the gap between Low 7-B and High 6-C I'm pretty sure. Gaps between tiers are larger the higher you go, as a rule of thumb.

Also, even Mythril weapons in Three Houses can break from usage over time, so they're sure as hell not Tier 6 in durability.

Thales is one of the strongest magic users in the series, and his goal was a last resort to kill Byleth out of vengeance and desperation. I do not need to prove that "Javelins of Light have randomly varied power levels", they're all the same thing being Javelins of Light. It's them having copies that vary in tier that would require more evidence then them just being copies of the same thing.

How about the fact that several Javelins hit the ground and Fodlan is still there?

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

I'm going off of "Multiplication formula", and that wasn't my point. Mythril is still like Tier 7 in hand held quantities though entire castle walls of it are a different story. Durability isn't even a linear concept. So the Low 7-B calculation is actually a lowball. And Valley of Torment is still a middle feat between the Low 7-B and High 6-C.

Those are just flaws with the animators, as most of them still hit Rhea. The Javelins of Light used against Rhea are still the same ones the Agarthians crafted in the ancient times and still the same ones used during the ancient war.

 

[The_Smashor]

I'm going off of "Multiplication formula", and that wasn't my point. Mythril is still like Tier 7 in hand held quantities though entire castle walls of it are a different story. Durability isn't even a linear concept. So the Low 7-B calculation is actually a lowball. And Valley of Torment is still a middle feat between the Low 7-B and High 6-C.

High 7-A is still pretty damn far away from Low 7-B. Not to mention, there's very little reason to assume Mythril jumps from 7-C to High 6-C just because there's a lot of it, considering the gap with real world metal is 9-B to 9-A or 8-C at most. I know Mythril is a fictional metal and all that, but that dosn't mean it follows completely different fundamental laws to real world metal. By the way, can you link to me where it says the fort is made of Mythril? It's been a while since I've replayed Three Houses.

And the Valley of Torment's blast size honestly dosn't make sense either. Individual Javelins, by the admission of our own profile, already vary in power. If the Javelins were all High 6-C, the Valley of Torment would be a hole where most of Fodlan used to be. If the Javelins were all High 7-A, it would take a hell of a lot more than 100 to blow up a country. So who's to say there aren't Javelins that are even weaker?

Those are just flaws with the animators, as most of them still hit Rhea. The Javelins of Light used against Rhea are still the same ones the Agarthians crafted in the ancient times and still the same ones used during the ancient war.

Only like 2 of them hit Rhea. Most of them hit the ground. Also, the Agarthan metal or whatever wouldn't absorb the blast (Unless there's a statement of it having that property, which I'm 90% sure there isn't). The blast would just keep going horizontally. We even see Rhea dodge one and directly see it hit the ground.

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

High 7-A is still pretty damn far away from Low 7-B. Not to mention, there's very little reason to assume Mythril jumps from 7-C to High 6-C just because there's a lot of it, considering the gap with real world metal is 9-B to 9-A or 8-C at most. I know Mythril is a fictional metal and all that, but that dosn't mean it follows completely different fundamental laws to real world metal. By the way, can you link to me where it says the fort is made of Mythril? It's been a while since I've replayed Three Houses.

I never claimed it would jump that high, especially considering Fort Merceus was destroyed. It's an antifeat for Fort Merceus but a feat for the Javelins of Light. I never outright said it was made of Mythril, only that structures in Fire Emblem and various metals aren't made of real world matierals like what was implied in one of your above posts. But even so, it's still made of supermetals which means Low 7-B is still a massive lowball as the calc probably assumes it's made of 9-B stuff anyway. So if anything, that's a back up as let's lowball Mythril or what every Fort Merceus is made of and assume it's 7-C, that's still many times higher than 9-B to the point where the Low 7-B feat could be more like Tier 6 to begin with. But calc stacking not going to be used, it proves the low end is Not an anti-feat.

And the Valley of Torment's blast size honestly dosn't make sense either. Individual Javelins, by the admission of our own profile, already vary in power. If the Javelins were all High 6-C, the Valley of Torment would be a hole where most of Fodlan used to be. If the Javelins were all High 7-A, it would take a hell of a lot more than 100 to blow up a country. So who's to say there aren't Javelins that are even weaker?

That profile is worded poorly, it is not variable in the sense of Incredible Hulk where it depends on anger. It's more like an At least possibly scenario. We still do not know how many, but it's also important to note that Javelins of Light are things that even from the very beginning; the Agarthians were very much stated to have only made a few of them. So using 10 or 100 is absolutely highballing the number it took. But anyway, it's more of a inconsistent portrayal rather than having actual lore that they vary in strength.

Only like 2 of them hit Rhea. Most of them hit the ground. Also, the Agarthan metal or whatever wouldn't absorb the blast (Unless there's a statement of it having that property, which I'm 90% sure there isn't). The blast would just keep going horizontally. We even see Rhea dodge one and directly see it hit the ground.

Only 4 of them were launched in that specific scene, and 2 of them were half of them. Also other sources literally say that "It was because she blocked most of them that we were able to survive. Also, it did considerable damage to Shambhala. And the metal you're talking about is called Agarthium.

 

[The_Smashor]

Two things.

1. Can you quote the individual parts of my response that you're responding to? It makes it easier to read when it's segmented. You just gotta highlight it and you can see "Reply", and then you can hit it, and where your text bar thingy is (The blinking thing the text comes from when you type, don't remember the name of it), the quote appears.

2. It's past 2AM where I am and my sleep schedule is bad enough as is, so I'm gonna hit the hay for tonight. I'll respond in the morning.

 

[The_Smashor]

Thank you very much.

I never claimed it would jump that high, especially considering Fort Merceus was destroyed. It's an antifeat for Fort Merceus but a feat for the Javelins of Light. I never outright said it was made of Mythril, only that structures in Fire Emblem and various metals aren't made of real world matierals like what was implied in one of your above posts. But even so, it's still made of supermetals which means Low 7-B is still a massive lowball as the calc probably assumes it's made of 9-B stuff anyway. So if anything, that's a back up as let's lowball Mythril or what every Fort Merceus is made of and assume it's 7-C, that's still many times higher than 9-B to the point where the Low 7-B feat could be more like Tier 6 to begin with. But calc stacking not going to be used, it proves the low end is Not an anti-feat.

what. Also if it's not made of Mythril, than this entire conversation is pointless, since we can't assume it is. So the fact it destroyed the fort but none of the area around it is an Anti-Feat for the Javelins, since it's only a Low 7-B amount of destruction.

That profile is worded poorly, it is not variable in the sense of Incredible Hulk where it depends on anger. It's more like an At least possibly scenario. We still do not know how many, but it's also important to note that Javelins of Light are things that even from the very beginning; the Agarthians were very much stated to have only made a few of them. So using 10 or 100 is absolutely highballing the number it took. But anyway, it's more of a inconsistent portrayal rather than having actual lore that they vary in strength.

And that inconsistent portrayal thing extends to the game itself. And you do know what we do with inconsistent portrayals on this wiki, right?

Only 4 of them were launched in that specific scene, and 2 of them were half of them. Also other sources literally say that "It was because she blocked most of them that we were able to survive. Also, it did considerable damage to Shambhala. And the metal you're talking about is called Agarthium.

OK. We still see one deadass hit the ground, and the whole place isn't a smoking crater afterwards. Agarthium would only protect the vertical space, the horizontal space would still be blown to hell.

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

what. Also if it's not made of Mythril, than this entire conversation is pointless, since we can't assume it is. So the fact it destroyed the fort but none of the area around it is an Anti-Feat for the Javelins, since it's only a Low 7-B amount of destruction.

It isn't pointless because there are a lot of metals similar to Mythril used to forge weapons, and Fort Merceus is still "One of the most durable strongholds ever built. It's not made of regular concrete and the like. Also, the word "Anti-Feat" is grossly misused; an anti-feat is described as either a failure to destroy something or a failure to tank something. A noncasual low end feat =/= Antifeat. Also, it was discussed back in early 2017 that it's often grossly mispresented and it's preferable to just say low end feat rather than anti-feat. Javelins of Light still destroyed it meaning it is a feat, and Low 7-B assumes baseline values. It's an antifeat for Fort Merceus because it was destroyed, but not for the Javelins because they succeeded in destroying the Fort.

And that inconsistent portrayal thing extends to the game itself. And you do know what we do with inconsistent portrayals on this wiki, right?

Those aren't really the best examples. Though another difference is because Hulk actually has statements where his strength varies depending on how angry he is. Javelins of Light don't have that description about them all varying based on copies. And what we do is strive for a middle ground on portrayals that are inconsistent. We have a Low 7-B that is grossly lowballed, a 7-A feat in the middle, and a High 6-C feat that is also lowballed in assuming that had a lot more Javelins then they probably did have in the first place. So three different ends in which the lowest and strongest are technically both lowballed. And common sense, even if we wanted to assume none of those feats are valid, the lowest we can go is saying they're still astronomically superior to Town level meteors. Making Low 7-B, 7-A, or High 6-C and what not uncontroversial.

OK. We still see one deadass hit the ground, and the whole place isn't a smoking crater afterwards. Agarthium would only protect the vertical space, the horizontal space would still be blown to hell.

The high end feats are a lot more consistent than the low end portrayals all things considered. And in depth lore takes priority over an animation flaw. Quite mind baffling to use a one scene portrayal that would imply god tiers are below fodder characters and mid tiers to ignore the otherwise consistency that these are weapons intended to be among the strongest things in the verse.

Anyway, I need to go to work soon. Perhaps someone like Mitch, GateMemer, or JustSomeWeirdo can give more details.

 

[The_Smashor]

And in depth lore takes priority over an animation flaw.

Literally no.

Mario just got the nerf hammer because the in-depth lore of Super Mario Galaxy is directly contradicted by gameplay, statements and cutscenes. You can't just write off everything that dosn't agree with your stats as an animation flaw. I feel like a cutscene we directly see takes priority over random books that we can't even be 100% certain are from fully credibly sources.

Literally everything that happens during the game involving the Javelins of Light discredits the higher statements.

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

That is a false equivalency. the problems more so stem from words about guidebooks usage vs statements that came from in game sources. Not to mention, these statements are literal backstory feats. Lore about backstory takes priority over everything; this is basically every "Creator god of the Universe" feat that we literally use for other verses that have expansive mythologies. But it's just continents getting nuked.

I'm not dismissing it because I "Disagree with the stats" it's because it's just common sense. The feats are still important backstories 100% canon.

Anyway, time for me to go to work and won't be available for 9 or 10 hours or so.

 

[The_Smashor]

Alright.

Also, can you prove the book with the continent busting feat is from a reliable source?

 

[TheGatememer]

Alright.

Also, can you prove the book with the continent busting feat is from a reliable source?

(Country busting btw)

Well it was written by an agarthan at the time, and the countries mentioned on it were said to be basically wiped off the map.

In game, when we look at the current map, there is no location with the names of Thinis, Malus, Septum (and another one I forgot).

also, the Agarthan said that they had built Shambhala “beyond the reach of the waters of despair” indicating that they had built Shambhala further inland. However if we look on the current map, Shambhala is right on the coast, which kinda shows there was a worldwide flood at some point, like the Agarthan claimed. This would also explain their hatred against Sothis, since she was going to basically pull an Ashunera.

so yes, Romance of the World’s Perdition should be a reliable source.

 

[The_Smashor]

Lore about backstory takes priority over everything

No, no it dosn't. If lore is consistently contradicted in-game at every single opportunity, it shouldn't be considered.

The feats are still important backstories 100% canon.

Please rephrase, as this sentence is slightly incomprehensible.

I'm not dismissing it because I "Disagree with the stats" it's because it's just common sense.

So it's common sense to take statements over what we actually see on screen? It's common sense to use something that has not been supported a single time in gameplay or cutscenes?

Are you seriously saying that every single Javelin of Light we see explode on screen is an animation error? And the fact that even one that dosn't explode on screen (The one that destroyed Fort Merceus in the crimson flower path) also isn't a tier 6 explosion.

There are only so many anti-feats that can just be dismissed. This isn't like Dragon Ball where characters control their Ki so they don't destroy the planet they're fighting on, these are emotionless bombs that are literally incapable of holding back.

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

No, no it dosn't. If lore is consistently contradicted in-game at every single opportunity, it shouldn't be considered.

Tell that to the GoW and DMC supporters next time you debate with them; not like there are visual demonstrations of universal or multiversal creation feats, that are followed by said character comparable to said god tiers struggling to cut down trees. I'm certainly not going to tackle that anytime soon, but literally using the absolute lowest interpretation based on the absolute least impressive animation is clearly never something that was accepted. I think we all know which former staff member turned Reddit troll we're talking about.

Please rephrase, as this sentence is slightly incomprehensible.

RTX already did, it comes from an in game history book. We are literally given names of prehistoric Countries that no longer exist because of the Javelins of Light. Trying to argue against us about this is as logical as trying to argue George Washington wasn't the 1st President.

So it's common sense to take statements over what we actually see on screen? It's common sense to use something that has not been supported a single time in gameplay or cutscenes?

Are you seriously saying that every single Javelin of Light we see explode on screen is an animation error? And the fact that even one that dosn't explode on screen (The one that destroyed Fort Merceus in the crimson flower path) also isn't a tier 6 explosion.

There are only so many anti-feats that can just be dismissed. This isn't like Dragon Ball where characters control their Ki so they don't destroy the planet they're fighting on, these are emotionless bombs that are literally incapable of holding back.

You mean only 2 cutscenes; the former actually being quite impressive; busting one of the most durable strongholds that ever existed in 2 shots? It wasn't Crimson Flower, it was Silver Snow and Verdant Wind where it happens. Jeritza is an ally in Crimson Flower. If I destroyed a wall made of Adamantium, is that still only Wall level?

The Valley of Torment was still only a single pillar of light, and thus only a few Javelins. And they literally destroyed several countries to the point where they didn't even appear on the map. Also, Javelins of Light can be controlled actually; they're controlled by power magic casters such as Thales.

 

[Armorchompy]

taps the "don't bring up other verses" sign

 

[The_Smashor]

DMC supporters

Once again, people can hold back or have off days. These are explosives incapable of such things.

it comes from an in game history book.

A history book. From Garreg Mach Monestary. Where they specifically lie about history. Several times. And outright remove books that tell the truth. Do we have a scan showing the book's from an agarthan?

You mean only 2 cutscenes; the former actually being quite impressive; busting one of the most durable strongholds that ever existed in 2 shots?

Fort Merceus is not that impressive. The fort's very obviously made of some kind of stone, it dosn't shine like some kinda metal. Pretty sure the fort's considered hard to break into for normal reasons like high walls and lots of easily fortified positions, not for being able to tank the god damn Tsar Bomba.

The Valley of Torment was still only a single pillar of light, and thus only a few Javelins.

OK, and we don't see a pillar of light for any of the feats we see in cutscenes, further implying they don't scale.

Also, Javelins of Light can be controlled actually; they're controlled by power magic casters such as Thales.

OK. And Thales had literally zero reason to hold back. So each and every one should have been tier 6. But it wasn't. So the ones Thales uses (And as such the ones they scale to) are weaker, either due to being bottom of the barrel or due to Thales being a weaker caster than his ancestors.

 

[TheGatememer]

A history book. From Garreg Mach Monestary. Where they specifically lie about history. Several times. And outright remove books that tell the truth. Do we have a scan showing the book's from an agarthan?

It's from the Shadow Library. You know, the exact place where all the books specifically banned by the Church go?

Yes, it is written by the Agarthans, or someone that is in close relation with them, since they specifically refer to Sothis as the false god, and that they were the ones that unleashed the pillars of light.

“In the land of Thinis, where the old gods are said to live, the False God has awakened. Its looming, heteromorphic vessel was resurrected to sink the world to the depths of the ocean. It will bring extinction to all children of men, and salvation to all beasts of the land, sky, and sea. For the children of men who spilled too much of the blood of life, it promises only cruel retribution.

”the False God must be defeated before the world sinks into a watery grave. To this end, the children of men have erected pillars of light upon the land. Thinis, Malum, Septen and Llium were utterly destroyed. Those lands have vanished from this world. Yet even still, the False God stands. And soon, a flood aptly named Despair will drown this world.

”The children of men fled to the depths of the earth, beyond the sight of the False God, beyond the embrace of the sacred sun, and beyond the reach of the waters of Despair. They swore a fervent oath of revenge against the surface world, ruled by beasts, and against their tormentor, the False God.”

 

[The_Smashor]

It's from the Shadow Library.

Oh, sorry, I didn't realize. It looked like the regular library in the screencap.

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

taps the "don't bring up other verses" sign

How comes you didn't say that when other people were? Just curious. Especially since you were kudos'ing comments that were worse examples.

Once again, people can hold back or have off days. These are explosives incapable of such things

"Holding Back" isn't the issue, the issues is being capable of precisions strikes. And the former had no reason if they wanted to collect a lot of firewood. And actually, Javelins of Light as mentioned actually is capable of precision strikes if the caster wishes.

A history book. From Garreg Mach Monestary. Where they specifically lie about history. Several times. And outright remove books that tell the truth. Do we have a scan showing the book's from an agarthan?

As RTX said, it wasn't made by the Church, it was in the Shadow Library full of banned books. Either way, those list of counties are legit countries that used to exist but no longer do. And the Agarthians had no reason not to lie about how or why their city was built to withstand the flood.

Fort Merceus is not that impressive. The fort's very obviously made of some kind of stone, it dosn't shine like some kinda metal. Pretty sure the fort's considered hard to break into for normal reasons like high walls and lots of easily fortified positions, not for being able to tank the god damn Tsar Bomba.

It can't just be made of typical smithing stone; there's other note worthy materials such as Black-Sand Steel, Arcane Crystal, Agarthium, Wootz Steel, Mythril, Umbral Steel, and Venomstone. Also Low 7-B is just a bench mark and not a cap given the durability of Fort Merceus. And it is still consistent with the casual "Cutting a mountain in half" statement.

OK, and we don't see a pillar of light for any of the feats we see in cutscenes, further implying they don't scale.

Actually, we do. The "Pillar of Light" is shown each and every time a set of Javelins is being launched.

OK. And Thales had literally zero reason to hold back. So each and every one should have been tier 6. But it wasn't. So the ones Thales uses (And as such the ones they scale to) are weaker, either due to being bottom of the barrel or due to Thales being a weaker caster than his ancestors.

Again, Thales wasn't "Holding back" per say, he was just trying to kill Byleth. Which he would have been less likely to do so if the AoE was wide spread; having a larger AoE would lower the J/cc and the like he needed to really do much damage to Byleth or Rhea. And considering Thales is one of the strongest villains in the series, the fact that he was a threat to Byleth who not much later fought the 10 Elites and Nemesis. And Nemesis should logically be the strongest Agarthian by far, and even the fact that the resurrected 10 Elites and Nemesis are even stronger than their originals. I highly doubt the latter statements is anything beyond a baseless assumption. Thales even killed himself in the process due to how dangerous the Javelins are.

 

[The_Smashor]

Actually, we do. The "Pillar of Light" is shown each and every time a set of Javelins is being launched.

Wait, that's the pillar of light? You implied it was an indication of a massive amount of destruction in the lore or something.

Again, Thales wasn't "Holding back" per say, he was just trying to kill Byleth. Which he would have been less likely to do so if the AoE was wide spread; having a larger AoE would lower the J/cc and the like he needed to really do much damage to Byleth or Rhea.

There's no evidence he can do that. This isn't Dragon Ball. Ki Control is not a thing that exists. Not to mention, we don't see the lava hellscape that was the result of the javelins of the Valley of Torment. They don't even mention it, which seems like it'd be important since it's in Hilda's territory.

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

Wait, that's the pillar of light? You implied it was an indication of a massive amount of destruction in the lore or something.

Yeah, Pillar of Light is that ray of light that show cases the pattern of the Javelins fall.

There's no evidence he can do that. This isn't Dragon Ball. Ki Control is not a thing that exists. Not to mention, we don't see the lava hellscape that was the result of the javelins of the Valley of Torment. They don't even mention it, which seems like it'd be important since it's in Hilda's territory.

It doesn't have to be "Ki Control" to be considered precision strikes. Pretty much any JRPG verses magic system can also be similar to the Ki/Chakra control that Shounen verses do. This is the same verse where lightning bolts powerful enough to disperse the very cloud that summoned it in one use exist. Even the meteor calculation could be much higher than the 15 Kiloton calculation if the castor is stronger; it doesn't need to show AoE every time a meteor falls. Actually, we do see the large put of lava as it's literally one of the chapter maps in Verdant Wind/Silver Snow/Azure Moon.

 

[The_Smashor]

It doesn't have to be "Ki Control" to be considered precision strikes.

There's no evidence of that

Pretty much any JRPG verses magic system can also be similar to the Ki/Chakra control that Shounen verses do.

There's no evidence of that

This is the same verse where lightning bolts powerful enough to disperse the very cloud that summoned it in one use exist.

OK. Not entirely relevant.

Even the meteor calculation could be much higher than the 15 Kiloton calculation if the castor is stronger; it doesn't need to show AoE every time a meteor falls.

OK. That's because it's only shown in gameplay, not cutscenes.

Actually, we do see the large put of lava as it's literally one of the chapter maps in Verdant Wind/Silver Snow/Azure Moon.

Yeah. That's the valley of torment.

What I'm saying is that we don't see this with the Javelins that land in cutscenes, as nobody mentions there being a lava hellhole in Fort Marceus or the Goneril territory.

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

There's no evidence of that

Agarthians having control over the Javelins via magic? That is close enough

OK. Not entirely relevant.

It's evidence that AoE =/= Attack Potency, that's the point

OK. That's because it's only shown in gameplay, not cutscenes.

It happens in the narratives actually, and it was a fodder mage that did the Town level calculation; the lore does describe meteor as pulling a shooting star out of the sky. Which "shooting stars" are meteors IRL. Meaning a max level sage likely pulls down bigger meteors with faster falling speeds.

Yeah. That's the valley of torment.

What I'm saying is that we don't see this with the Javelins that land in cutscenes, as nobody mentions there being a lava hellhole in Fort Marceus or the Goneril territory.

Yes, and the Valley of Torment is a stage formed using a few Javelins of Light. Meaning its very existence is still a back up feat for Javelins of Light. Also, you do realize my other points is that Javelins of light are literally big lances made of Agarthium that are controlled by powerful magic casters. So any other potent maguc user wielding a weapon made of Agarthium such as Edelgard really isn't that much different context wise.

Also, I know I'm getting off topic and won't say the name of the verse. But weren't you one of the people who mentioned a genius type character describing someone or something as "The strongest or best and most powerful creation" being a reason for a certain character or weapon to be stronger than a satellite weapon that had a feat? I know times change, but Edelgard would simply upscale above the Javelins of Light by that line of logic is something work being brought up. I'm not saying I support that being the reason, but I just saying this is pretty much the same analogy.

Anyway, narrative feats are still feats, And all Javelins of Light are the same design and same size individually. And the ones that destroyed Fort Merceus and the one that destroyed the Valley of Torment is still Thales. So "Him being weaker" doesn't hold much weight.

 

[The_Smashor]

Agarthians having control over the Javelins via magic? That is close enough

Not really. There's no evidence people can control the blast radius of magic.

It's evidence that AoE =/= Attack Potency, that's the point

Electricity dosn't focus on destruction anyways. They're different from explosions.

It happens in the narratives actually, and it was a fodder mage that did the Town level calculation; the lore does describe meteor as pulling a shooting star out of the sky. Which "shooting stars" are meteors IRL. Meaning a max level sage likely pulls down bigger meteors with faster falling speeds.

OK. That's still more Kinetic Energy then actual destructive power. Explosions are not meteors.

Yes, and the Valley of Torment is a stage formed using a few Javelins of Light. Meaning its very existence is still a back up feat for Javelins of Light.

Maybe, but even that's contradicted at every possible opportunity.

Also, you do realize my other points is that Javelins of light are literally big lances made of Agarthium that are controlled by powerful magic casters. So any other potent magic user wielding a weapon made of Agarthium such as Edelgard really isn't that much different context wise.

Not really. That's like saying a nuke is comparable to someone holding the metal used to make bombshells with gunpowder in their back pocket. Hell, Edelgard herself uses barrels of black powder explosives with her Gambit when using her default Battalion.

Also there's no evidence the Javelins are made of Agarhium.