Chara vs Giratina

[Bruhtelho]

Both are a 2-B

Both are bloodlusted and speed is =

Battle is in the Underground

chara :9 (ricsi-viragosi, apatheticskell, schnee one, TheWrightWay, Szmmit, Edward, Eficiente, Shake, videogamer1265)

giratina :10 (Dragopentling, Arceus0x, GlaceonGamez471, Enryu, Epsilon, Cal, inksaness, howdoseitwork, Everything12, Tony)

Inconclusive :0


Cuz Chara have physical form





VS

 

[Dragopentling]

idk why the Chara vs Dialga match was deleted from the latter's profile, but whatever

Here's my answer AND vote: Giratina via massive AP advantage and reasons I'll go ahead and explain

Giratina has considerably more powers and hax abilities. How does Chara try to match up against him?

Let's take a look at Chara's abilities and why she may or may not be able to do anything:

Possession? Giratina has high resistance to Mind Manipulation

Soul Manipulation and Immunity to Soul Manipulation? This is likely a troublesome one and probably one of the few chances of Chara winning. However, Giratina has the ability to create illusions and portals, as well as snipe from The Distortion World. He can also just BFR.

DETERMINATION? I looked up that term on the Undertale wiki, and it says it involves "the soul persisting after death". I dunno how this properly applies when Chara is listed as having "NO soul". Anyways, even if so, Giratina should just BFRs for days.

Regenerationn? Giratina can have Heal Block, or just call it Power Null in general.

Time and Reality Manipuation, as well as Acasuality? Doesn't mean much when Giratina also has Acausality and Anti-Matter Manipulation...oh yea, also Power Null.

Immortality Types 6, 7, and 8 and Non-Corporealism? For Type 6, Resistance to Mind Manipulation. For Type 7? Reality Manipulation and Physics Manipulation...pretty much anything that can destroy an undead (I'm pretty sure Giratina has those). Type 8? Reality Manipulation, as well as Matter and Anti-Matter Manipulation. Non-corporealism? Any of the aforementioned abilities of Giratina should do the trick as well.

And finally....MINOR Resistance to Mind Manipulation: Giratina is listed as having Empathic Manipulation, so it's just a matter of how strong the minor resistance is, or how potent Giratina's ability to control emotions is. I'd place my bets on the latter.

I hope I explained well enough. Feel free to correct me or add stuff if needed.

 

[Bruhtelho]

0-1

 

[Dragopentling]

0-1

P.S. one more thing...I forgot to save the thread for the voting bazaar where you can bring vs matches thread to more attention. Do you have a link to that?

 

[Azathoth_the_Abyssal_Idiot]

"DETERMINATION? I looked up that term on the Undertale wiki, and it says it involves "the soul persisting after death". I dunno how this properly applies when Chara is listed as having "NO soul"."

Chara feeds off your DETERMINATION the entire genocide route and then takes your SOUL as payment for restoring the world after it's destroyed.

 

[Saikou_The_Lewd_King]

You haven't said WHY Giratina would win though. Giratina cannot put down Chara at all, and BFR certainly won't affect someone like Chara, 2-B range and all.

 

[Bruhtelho]

no i dont think so

 

[Azathoth_the_Abyssal_Idiot]

You haven't said WHY Giratina would win though. Giratina cannot put down Chara at all, and BFR certainly won't affect someone like Chara, 2-B range and all.

You know, expanding upon this, can Giratina even recover from any potentially fatal damage it would receive in this fight? Chara can just "lolnope" anything done to them and has pretty solid regen on top of that, but I don't even think Giratina has ever displayed notable Regenerationn. May be completely forgetting something, though.

 

[Eficiente]

Just pointing out

Possession? Giratina has high resistance to Mind Manipulation

Possession is also Biological Manip, not as if Chara were to use that here tho.

@Azzy ? Isn't Chara's regen time manip-based?

 

[Dragopentling]

"DETERMINATION? I looked up that term on the Undertale wiki, and it says it involves "the soul persisting after death". I dunno how this properly applies when Chara is listed as having "NO soul"."
Chara feeds off your DETERMINATION the entire genocide route and then takes your SOUL as payment for restoring the world after it's destroyed.

Oh okay I see, very interesting. Although, tbh, I don't think I can really find a way to make that appliable or significant in this matchup. Giratina's Reality and Physics Manipulation should get around this, even then.

 

[Saikou_The_Lewd_King]

Giratina doesn't even have any justifications for its Physics Manip, I don't know how you can conclude anything from it.

 

[Dragopentling]

no i dont think so

well damn that sucks....I'll see if I can find it, then

 

[Bruhtelho]

ok pal and if anyone votes let me know or changes there vote

 

[ShadowWarrior1999]

>BFR an omnipresent.

Uh no.

 

[Eficiente]

Giratina's Reality and Physics Manipulation should get around this, even then.

Gira needs to know what's going on first, which is time reversal.

 

[Azathoth_the_Abyssal_Idiot]

Just pointing out
@Azzy ? Isn't Chara's regen time manip-based?

Their rege? No. They're already long gone by the time the game starts. They're brought back via the Anomaly's DETERMINATION.

 

[Dragopentling]

You haven't said WHY Giratina would win though. Giratina cannot put down Chara at all, and BFR certainly won't affect someone like Chara, 2-B range and all.

You know, expanding upon this, can Giratina even recover from any potentially fatal damage it would receive in this fight? Chara can just "lolnope" anything done to them and has pretty solid regen on top of that, but I don't even think Giratina has ever displayed notable Regenerationn. May be completely forgetting something, though.

I did mention Giratina having Heal Block, just a reminder if you overlook that....which is basically a variation of Power Null, if that helps

Giratina also has Intangibility, so yea, it CAN get hit, but not quite that easily, and Giratina isn't just gonna dodge around all day on defensive, either.

 

[Saikou_The_Lewd_King]

Yeah, except that Heal Block never prevented something anywhere near the scale of Godly regen, only Mid-High.

 

[Dragopentling]

Yeah, except that Heal Block never prevented something anywhere near the scale of Godly regen, only Mid-High.

well there's also this, since it's on Giratina's profile:

Power Nullification (Shadow Force in the TCG has a 50% chance of making the opponent's next attack completely useless, damage, hax, and all. The Devour Light ability prevents other abilities from activating as long as Giratina is out. The Renegade Pulse ability negates the effects of attacks, including damage, that hit it)

Although you may have a case if her regen ability is considered a "continuous" existing one

 

[Saikou_The_Lewd_King]

Shadow Force's not gonna grant him a win at all here, and the latter two ability only works on specific beings and thus won't affect Chara.

 

[Eficiente]

Their rege? No. They're already long gone by the time the game starts. They're brought back via the Anomaly's DETERMINATION.

How's that something Chara can use in combat if it needs Frisk to do that? I know it has the Anomaly's SOUL, power and that but it will have nothing if it gets reduced to nothing. Like, having the power of someone who can revive you when you can't=/=You yourself can now resurrect every time you want. Who is activating that if Chara isn't there?

Unless I'm ignoring something, in that case sorry.

 

[Saikou_The_Lewd_King]

Chara only needed The Player to first come back from life. They presumably don't need the player anymore afterward.

 

[Dragopentling]

Shadow Force's not gonna grant him a win at all here, and the latter two ability only works on specific beings and thus won't affect Chara.

• sighs*

another case of failed specs to say otherwise.

Now I wait for a mod to close or help with an explanation

 

[Dragopentling]

Chara only needed The Player to first come back from life. They presumably don't need the player anymore afterward.

Is the Player relevant in this match, though? Is this the version of Chara AFTER she takes over the player?

 

[Saikou_The_Lewd_King]

Yeah, Giratina's profile is really not being honest with its powers at times, I've had this issue previously in another match.

And no, it shouldn't be. Hence my point, Chara doesn't need the player to come back anymore. At least not direct intervention from the player.

 

[Azathoth_the_Abyssal_Idiot]

Chara is only Tier 2 after feeding on the Anomaly's DETERMINATION for the whole run (and immediately after this, they take the Anomaly's SOUL), so yeah, it would be.

 

[Eficiente]

I don't get it. Where is it said that Chara coming back to life is a power that it can freely use and not the result of the actions of other, which, logically, only activates with the actions of other?

Edit: Again, Chara has it's power, yes, but it can't do the actions while dead.

The context I received suggests that.

 

[Iapitus_The_Impaler]

Oh boi, this is gonna be interesting

 

[Azathoth_the_Abyssal_Idiot]

It's directly stated to be due to DETERMINATION.

Flowey even talks to Chara about destroying himself and then coming back via DETERMINATION, which he mentions is the same thing that revived Chara.

Chara then takes the thing that provided said DETERMINATION at the end of the genocide route. They have no more need for outside influence to obtain it.

 

[Azathoth_the_Abyssal_Idiot]

Edit: Again, Chara has it's power, yes, but it can't do the actions while dead.

Why?

Literally every other DT user can do this, and Chara gets it the worst when it comes to being hella dead.

 

[Dragopentling]

Yeah, Giratina's profile is really not being honest with its powers at times, I've had this issue previously in another match.
And no, it shouldn't be. Hence my point, Chara doesn't need the player to come back anymore. At least not direct intervention from the player.

I understand, but at least don't blame me, though. I'm not trying to be biased; I AM going based on what listed on Centipede Dragon Boi's profile, so it's not like I always know what's true or not. That being said, you and the others are free to discuss this out, while I now promote this thread to a voting bazaar and then go and take care of personal crap (fml). I've at least done my part to jumpstart the discussion...take care, everyone!

 

[Eficiente]

Then Flowey should also have insane regen, which he doesn't, also Frisk, but even then wouldn't make more sense to think that Flowey just went back in time as opposed to having regenerated without noticing it at all?

 

[Eficiente]

Umm Azzy I'm not saying x character can't go back in time to regenerate from nothing, I'm saying how's Chara Mid-Godly regen not time-based and something it can use on their own.

 

[Azathoth_the_Abyssal_Idiot]

Flowey never full-on stopped existing, to my knowledge (Frisk's DETERMINATION actually does demonstrate a similar ability without time manipulation during the Asriel fight, though). He did, however, mention DETERMINATION explicitly as the power that brought Chara back.

However, in Chara's case, there is no time reset. Chara is always dead and their SOUL is always destroyed. Their return has no basis in time manipulation. The power of DETERMINATION just makes them suddenly exist again, and then they take the source of said DETERMINATION.

 

[Eficiente]

2 of the points there convince me, ok. (Flowey should gain some regen but that's not important here.)

 

[Saikou_The_Lewd_King]

I'd also point out that Flowey only has this high of determination through using the souls and absorbing their DT. It isn't actually is and can lose said DT just by losing the souls, so it's not inherently part of him, therefore making regen unlikely for him.

 

[Azathoth_the_Abyssal_Idiot]

Flowey should likely have some form of regen since his power is supposed to basically be identical to Frisk's, yeah. I just don't know what exactly it should be because I don't know if he ever actually demonstrates it.

 

[Azathoth_the_Abyssal_Idiot]

@Saikou

I assume that would still apply to boosted Flowey, though. He only gets that other form when he actually has said SOULs.

Unless we're only referring to his base.

 

[Saikou_The_Lewd_King]

I meant Photoshop Flowey, who's pretty much just Flowey strapped to a TV and to the DT Extraction machine. The SOULs aren't part of him like they are with Asriel.

 

[Azathoth_the_Abyssal_Idiot]

This is true.

They still function more like equipment he can use, but outside circumstances can really screw him over far easier than with his complete self (Frisk just having to call out for help and survive long enough against Flowey vs literally having to reach into Asriel's SOUL and remind people of why they matter & all that good shit, which didn't actually do anything aside from make goatboi want to stop fighting).