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But it should because if you're more feared, you're more powerful, and thus, you, by definition, outscale them? Typhoon still created a storm through power, he outputted joules, and Makima/Pochita are more powerful than Typhoon.
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Chainsaw Man discussion thread
- Thread starter Rez
- Start date
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Eh, like those 2 said, think about the scenario I mentioned, you vs a storm and you vs Jason with a Chainsaw and see which one you're more likely to survive. Simple as that.
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Because Makima is demonstrably not capable of punching with the strength of a Goddamn Hydrogen Bomb, otherwise she could've just killed 20% Gun by punching it.
You're argument is based on this powerscaling-brainrot perversion of conservation of energy, but "outputting joules" is not a thing that happens. People don't just "output" energy, they perform an action which can be described in terms of energy/joules.
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The thing is, Makima's physicals aren't even that crazy to begin with. Here's the thing: Makima could just control you, she could create a whole army of powerful devils if she spend enough time. That's why she's strong.
Denji's Chainsaws are extremely potent in cutting power, he's fast, physically strong and all, and has better regen, that's why he's strong.
What does Typhoon have? Ability to create storms? What is that gonna do to Denji? NOTHING, EVEN I CAN TANK THAT RAHHHHHHH!!!
Anyways, this is not DB where you has more Ki = you can blow more planets in one punch, it's not like that, that's not what Chainsaw Man is about.
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Again, it's not how the feat is done which is important. I know what Typhoon did is an environmental destruction feat that does not scale to his AP nor is it a concentrated attack, it's just a DC feat of him creating a storm. But what I'm arguing is that this doesn't matter. What does matter is the fact that this is still a feat of power. Typhoon still outputted joules, it doesn't matter how, he still did.
Makima, for one, is more powerful than Typhoon, yet unlike Typhoon, the only way she was shown to output joules is by her AP. So, her being more powerful than Typhoon meaning she outscales Typhoon, all means that she can exert that joule output of power through the only way she can, which is her AP. She has no ED capability unlike Typhoon.
So, what's wrong here?
Zabazab
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Your counter-argument is essentially "Nuh-uh" and it is how you have responded to every attempt to explain to you why no-one, not even Typhoon, scales to the storm creation. If you're being willfully ignorant, don't do that. If you genuinely are unable to grasp what we're saying, I can't help you. Feel free to read the Common Energy Systems Page and the Creation Feats page, and if you still think Makima should have Low 7-B punches then make a CRT.
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But this is just her ability which is distinct to every devil, this doesn't refute or counter that being more feared means you're more powerful and thus you outscale them in some way of outputting joules?
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The wrong thing here is you're completely ignoring how Chainsaw man powerscaling works, you're ignoring the fact that Makima's hax is stupidly OP, you're ignoring that Typhoon Devil with it's storm creation ability and it's true Physical body with true Physical power is different.
Makima literally was shot with normal bullets and died before, what is she gonna do to punch a freaking city away in one punch bro?
Just calm down and think about this for a sec, aight?
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Aight, now I'm gonna give you this scenario, work you mind around it for half a sec please:
1: Goku with his 409198090480984023840924809248029 power level
2: Yogiri with his instant death
Now who wins?
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Devils. Are. Not. Bags. Of. Power. With. Various. Ways. Of. Releasing. It.
What's wrong is that you can only think in terms of numbers which must be bigger than other numbers, regardless of context or evidence against that.
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Then what does "power" even mean in the context of Makima saying "Devils are more powerful the more they're feared?" What else would it mean if not meaning you outscale in any way?
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2, but why is this important? The abilities of a devil are distinct from them being more powerful? Like Yoru can be more feared than Makima yet Makima still outhaxes her, it doesn't disluctify the fact that Yoru outscales her because of being so much more powerful?
Zabazab
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As shown by Asa/Yoru in the start of the Chainsaw Man War, a massive increase in fear directed towards a devil will: Make their body significantly more durable, increase their speed and physical strength, and improve the effects of their devil power (such as removing restrictions).
Devils do not have some sort of "fear energy" that they use to increase their stats and/or use their abilities, meaning there is no common energy system at play. A series like JJK which does have an energy system that does those things doesn't even qualify on this site for physicals scaling to creation feats, so why would Chainsaw Man?
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Their physical strength and abilities both get stronger, as the entire rest of the story has shown. However, as also shown, their physical strength doesn't automatically scale to their abilities. As such. you can't just scale the physicals of one devil above the special abilities of another. A prime example is how Blood Devil Power can tear through Makima with her blood manipulation, to the point where Makima tried to used a sword made from 100 Years against her, yet got wrecked by the Mantis Devil and a bunch of zombies.
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Maybe because the rules of this site are shit
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Youre setting us up
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Helluvaverse?
Zabazab
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Dw you don't even need Death Devil, any Primal cooks himYoure setting us up
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I see alot of good arguments, but bad examples above. The only right response is that it is an outlier, period.
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Although I'm not against the feat just being ignored as an outlier, Typhoon isn't alone in having an absurdly strong but spread out AoE move, it's implied the initial Fire Devil (before it got 350,000 contractors) caused a whole dang Heat Wave.
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I agree, but I'm referring to Denji and Makima scaling to it, which is an outlier. I do agree that these devils have soley destructive moves which only their specific attacks or abilities scale to.
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If only those devils' specific attacks or abilities scale to the move, then how would Denji or Makima scale to them at all? That's not an outlier, that just doesn't happen. An outlier would be if they did scale but it's then contradicted by every other showing of power they have.
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My thoughts if they were clear:
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maybe you will (Freakymoto will draw her diarrhea full hd and we'll get to see her diarrhea face)
Anyways, back to Asa's profile, are we doing anymore changes for her profile?
Eh, about her Gun Gauntlet range, is Tens of meters, possibly hundreds of meters with that justification enough? Should hundreds of meters be changed to likely instead? Or are we increasing the range up too? I mean the attack speed itself is already bonkers enough for higher range, and we know that Gun Devil's bullet can travel for hundreds of kilometers without burning up or anything too.
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Eh, then I guess I'll just change the possibly into likely and leave it at that instead. Added "at least" for her tens of meters rating too.
Please Fujimotor please let Yoru transform her gauntlet into something like in Jagaaaaan, it'd be cool asf
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Oh yeah, I've one last minor edit to the scaling-
- Long should scale to Post-Training Human Denji for being able to uno-reverse-card Denji's hold on her when given the chance (~55 kg of TNT)
- The rest of Quanxi's fiends are still default fiend level, only Long showed that she's got hands.
- Partially Transformed Beam, as in not his full devil form but when he has the shark-head, scales to Long for bowling over her and saving Denji.
- Without partially transforming he's not this strong, as shown by Denji and Tolka sucker-punching him. So Beam's 6.7 kg of TNT normally, ~55 kg of TNT partially transformed, and ~807 kg of TNT in devil form.
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Yeah... But it'd be weird if Long didn't have semi-comparable striking strength to Post-Training Denji yet could still restrain him. Fiends are still mechanically human for the most part, it's not like Octopus being rope-shaped. (Strong in restraining, weak against cutting)
Beam ramming Long definitely isn't Lifting Strength.
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Fair on both
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In other news, I'm slightly disappointed nobody asked me to elaborate on the Fire Devil's Heat Wave, because it's something I completely missed on my first reading of Part 2, but I guess y'all are better at picking up foreshadowing than me.
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... I forgor that existed...
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From the TVTropes Foreshadowing Page-
- We know early Part 2 is set in March because of Denji & Nayuta's March Farts chart in Ch. 119, and the normal high for March 1998 was 73.4 degrees farenheit, or 23 degrees Celsius exactly (convenient). Early March is cooler but I'm lowballing.
- According to the first panels of Ch. 99, Tokyo is going through record highs, to the point where heatstroke is a concern. The current highest March temperatures for Tokyo was last year (thanks Global Warming), at 28.1 degrees Celsius (82.58 degrees Farenheit, yikes). That's a difference of 5.1 degrees Celsius or Kelvin.
- Using 1998 average March Tokyo Humidity (57%) and the Heat Index where heatstroke is seriously possible (85 degrees Farenheit), and working backwards to get temperature with a Heat Index Calculator gets basically the same temperature.
- Area of the Tokyo depends- Tokyo is 2,194 square kilometers, the Greater Tokyo Metropolitan Area is 13,452 square kilometers. Meanwhile the tallest building in Tokyo in 1998 was the Tokyo Tower at 333 meters tall. I'll use these for the dimensions of the air affected.
- Heat capacity of air is ~1 Kj/kg*Kelvin, density of air is 1.225 kg/m3.
- Tokyo Heat Wave: 5.1 degrees * 1000 j/kg*K * 1.225 kg/m3 * 333m * 2,194 km2 * 10^6 m2/km2 = 4.564436*10^15 joules
- Greater Tokyo Heat Wave: 5.1 degrees * 1000 j/kg*K * 1.225 kg/m3 * 333m * 13,452km2 * 10^6 m2/km2 = 2.79857762*10^16 joules
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Zabazab
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Damn it's really been ~11 months. Part 2's Normal Life timeskip is crazy.
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It's funny because the only other evidence of a timeskip is Fumiko slipping that she watched Denji in the bathroom and Denji saying he jerks off in there, while later he says that he hasn't masturbated in a while.
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So, just to confirm, correct me if I'm wrong, but if you're more feared than another devil, that means you just have higher striking strength, durability, and etc, but not higher output than a lower devil period from their abilities? If so, I'm a bit skepitc, because isn't Darkness and Makima like weak striking strength wise?
Also, you said their abilities get stronger too, so why wouldn't this mean their abilities would be more <powerful> than a lower feared devil?
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The "output" here does not exist, because Fujimoto doesn't work on the logic of an "output", but more than "what you can do with your power". Like for the storm devil, it's ability yield an enormous energy of that of a storm, but what can it even do with it? The "output" hence is meaningless, and because Chainsaw Man doesn't work on an energy system, the "output" is even more meaningless.
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