Chainsaw Man discussion thread

[Zabazab]

Yes

None of this matters because Chainsaw Man has neither a UES nor a NPES. Ergo non-physical feats– ESPECIALLY ones not even used to attack– do not scale to physical stats automatically.

 

[ElajRuengies]

Yes, but Typhoon's ability being of Typhoon alone isn't what's important, it's the joule output that Typhoon did. What does being more powerful than Typhoon mean if not outputting more joules and just scaling way higher than Typhoon? And what evidence is there to show Makima stating "The more feared a devil is, the more powerful it is" is just in terms of striking strength, because this doesn't make any sense for Makima to say power = strength, and some devils that are more feared than others have low striking iirc

If more fear just equalled more power, why didn't Typhoon just punch Denji with 5.44 f*cking megatons of power?

 

[Aaaaa11112222]

None of this matters because Chainsaw Man has neither a UES nor a NPES. Ergo non-physical feats– ESPECIALLY ones not even used to attack– do not scale to physical stats automatically.

But it should because if you're more feared, you're more powerful, and thus, you, by definition, outscale them? Typhoon still created a storm through power, he outputted joules, and Makima/Pochita are more powerful than Typhoon.

 

[Acertainbcplayer]

Eh, like those 2 said, think about the scenario I mentioned, you vs a storm and you vs Jason with a Chainsaw and see which one you're more likely to survive. Simple as that.

 

[ElajRuengies]

But it should because if you're more feared, you're more powerful, and thus, you, by definition, outscale them? Typhoon still created a storm through power, he outputted joules, and Makima/Pochita are more powerful than Typhoon.

Because Makima is demonstrably not capable of punching with the strength of a Goddamn Hydrogen Bomb, otherwise she could've just killed 20% Gun by punching it.

You're argument is based on this powerscaling-brainrot perversion of conservation of energy, but "outputting joules" is not a thing that happens. People don't just "output" energy, they perform an action which can be described in terms of energy/joules.

 

[Acertainbcplayer]

But it should because if you're more feared, you're more powerful, and thus, you, by definition, outscale them? Typhoon still created a storm through power, he outputted joules, and Makima/Pochita are more powerful than Typhoon.

The thing is, Makima's physicals aren't even that crazy to begin with. Here's the thing: Makima could just control you, she could create a whole army of powerful devils if she spend enough time. That's why she's strong.

Denji's Chainsaws are extremely potent in cutting power, he's fast, physically strong and all, and has better regen, that's why he's strong.

What does Typhoon have? Ability to create storms? What is that gonna do to Denji? NOTHING, EVEN I CAN TANK THAT RAHHHHHHH!!!

Anyways, this is not DB where you has more Ki = you can blow more planets in one punch, it's not like that, that's not what Chainsaw Man is about.

 

[Aaaaa11112222]

If more fear just equalled more power, why didn't Typhoon just punch Denji with 5.44 f*cking megatons of power?

Again, it's not how the feat is done which is important. I know what Typhoon did is an environmental destruction feat that does not scale to his AP nor is it a concentrated attack, it's just a DC feat of him creating a storm. But what I'm arguing is that this doesn't matter. What does matter is the fact that this is still a feat of power. Typhoon still outputted joules, it doesn't matter how, he still did.

Makima, for one, is more powerful than Typhoon, yet unlike Typhoon, the only way she was shown to output joules is by her AP. So, her being more powerful than Typhoon meaning she outscales Typhoon, all means that she can exert that joule output of power through the only way she can, which is her AP. She has no ED capability unlike Typhoon.

So, what's wrong here?

 

[Zabazab]

But it should because if you're more feared, you're more powerful, and thus, you, by definition, outscale them? Typhoon still created a storm through power, he outputted joules, and Makima/Pochita are more powerful than Typhoon.

Your counter-argument is essentially "Nuh-uh" and it is how you have responded to every attempt to explain to you why no-one, not even Typhoon, scales to the storm creation. If you're being willfully ignorant, don't do that. If you genuinely are unable to grasp what we're saying, I can't help you. Feel free to read the Common Energy Systems Page and the Creation Feats page, and if you still think Makima should have Low 7-B punches then make a CRT.

 

[Aaaaa11112222]

The thing is, Makima's physicals aren't even that crazy to begin with. Here's the thing: Makima could just control you, she could create a whole army of powerful devils if she spend enough time. That's why she's strong.

But this is just her ability which is distinct to every devil, this doesn't refute or counter that being more feared means you're more powerful and thus you outscale them in some way of outputting joules?

 

[Acertainbcplayer]

Again, it's not how the feat is done which is important. I know what Typhoon did is an environmental destruction feat that does not scale to his AP nor is it a concentrated attack, it's just a DC feat of him creating a storm. But what I'm arguing is that this doesn't matter. What does matter is the fact that this is still a feat of power. Typhoon still outputted joules, it doesn't matter how, he still did.

Makima, for one, is more powerful than Typhoon, yet unlike Typhoon, the only way she was shown to output joules is by her AP. So, her being more powerful than Typhoon meaning she outscales Typhoon, all means that she can exert that joule output of power through the only way she can, which is her AP. She has no ED capability unlike Typhoon.

So, what's wrong here?

The wrong thing here is you're completely ignoring how Chainsaw man powerscaling works, you're ignoring the fact that Makima's hax is stupidly OP, you're ignoring that Typhoon Devil with it's storm creation ability and it's true Physical body with true Physical power is different.

Makima literally was shot with normal bullets and died before, what is she gonna do to punch a freaking city away in one punch bro?

Just calm down and think about this for a sec, aight?

 

[Acertainbcplayer]

But this is just her ability which is distinct to every devil, this doesn't refute or counter that being more feared means you're more powerful and thus you outscale them in some way of outputting joules?

Aight, now I'm gonna give you this scenario, work you mind around it for half a sec please:

1: Goku with his 409198090480984023840924809248029 power level
2: Yogiri with his instant death

Now who wins?

 

[ElajRuengies]

Again, it's not how the feat is done which is important. I know what Typhoon did is an environmental destruction feat that does not scale to his AP nor is it a concentrated attack, it's just a DC feat of him creating a storm. But what I'm arguing is that this doesn't matter. What does matter is the fact that this is still a feat of power. Typhoon still outputted joules, it doesn't matter how, he still did.

Makima, for one, is more powerful than Typhoon, yet unlike Typhoon, the only way she was shown to output joules is by her AP. So, her being more powerful than Typhoon meaning she outscales Typhoon, all means that she can exert that joule output of power through the only way she can, which is her AP. She has no ED capability unlike Typhoon.

Devils. Are. Not. Bags. Of. Power. With. Various. Ways. Of. Releasing. It.

So, what's wrong here?

What's wrong is that you can only think in terms of numbers which must be bigger than other numbers, regardless of context or evidence against that.

 

[Aaaaa11112222]

Devils. Are. Not. A. Bag. Of. Power. With. Various. Ways. Of. Releasing. It.

Then what does "power" even mean in the context of Makima saying "Devils are more powerful the more they're feared?" What else would it mean if not meaning you outscale in any way?

 

[Aaaaa11112222]

Aight, now I'm gonna give you this scenario, work you mind around it for half a sec please:

1: Goku with his 409198090480984023840924809248029 power level
2: Yogiri with his instant death

Now who wins?

2, but why is this important? The abilities of a devil are distinct from them being more powerful? Like Yoru can be more feared than Makima yet Makima still outhaxes her, it doesn't disluctify the fact that Yoru outscales her because of being so much more powerful?

 

[Zabazab]

"Devils are more powerful the more they're feared"

As shown by Asa/Yoru in the start of the Chainsaw Man War, a massive increase in fear directed towards a devil will: Make their body significantly more durable, increase their speed and physical strength, and improve the effects of their devil power (such as removing restrictions).

Devils do not have some sort of "fear energy" that they use to increase their stats and/or use their abilities, meaning there is no common energy system at play. A series like JJK which does have an energy system that does those things doesn't even qualify on this site for physicals scaling to creation feats, so why would Chainsaw Man?

 

[ElajRuengies]

Then what does "power" even mean in the context of Makima saying "Devils are more powerful the more they're feared?" What else would it mean if not meaning you outscale in any way?

Their physical strength and abilities both get stronger, as the entire rest of the story has shown. However, as also shown, their physical strength doesn't automatically scale to their abilities. As such. you can't just scale the physicals of one devil above the special abilities of another. A prime example is how Blood Devil Power can tear through Makima with her blood manipulation, to the point where Makima tried to used a sword made from 100 Years against her, yet got wrecked by the Mantis Devil and a bunch of zombies.

 

[Alexander]

As shown by Asa/Yoru in the start of the Chainsaw Man War, a massive increase in fear directed towards a devil will: Make their body significantly more durable, increase their speed and physical strength, and improve the effects of their devil power (such as removing restrictions).

Devils do not have some sort of "fear energy" that they use to increase their stats and/or use their abilities, meaning there is no common energy system at play. A series like JJK which does have an energy system that does those things doesn't even qualify on this site for physicals scaling to creation feats, so why would Chainsaw Man?

Maybe because the rules of this site are shit

 

[BoastJr]

This oddly reminds me of the "DemonSlayer's Blood Demon Arts scaling to physicals" debate from about a year ago.

Kinda does feel like an apple to oranges type comparison all things considered.

 

[Epiccheev]

Meanwhile like 90% of 4-A pocket realm feats in fiction scaling to every punch every character in an otherwise Below tier 6 verse throw. (Both are wrong)

 

[Pearly0nsams]

it's Coffee? Eh, still lose to Goku. But Death won't.

Youre setting us up

 

[Alexander]

Meanwhile like 90% of 4-A pocket realm feats in fiction scaling to every punch every character in an otherwise Below tier 6 verse throw. (Both are wrong)

Helluvaverse?

 

[Zabazab]

Youre setting us up

Dw you don't even need Death Devil, any Primal cooks him

 

[GunshyFever]

I see alot of good arguments, but bad examples above. The only right response is that it is an outlier, period.

 

[ElajRuengies]

I see alot of good arguments, but bad examples above. The only right response is that it is an outlier, period.

Although I'm not against the feat just being ignored as an outlier, Typhoon isn't alone in having an absurdly strong but spread out AoE move, it's implied the initial Fire Devil (before it got 350,000 contractors) caused a whole dang Heat Wave.

 

[GunshyFever]

I mean, Typhoon isn't alone in having an absurdly strong but spread out AoE move, it's implied the initial Fire Devil (before it got 350,000 contractors) caused a whole damn Heat Wave.

I agree, but I'm referring to Denji and Makima scaling to it, which is an outlier. I do agree that these devils have soley destructive moves which only their specific attacks or abilities scale to.

 

[ElajRuengies]

I agree, but I'm referring to Denji and Makima scaling to it, which is an outlier. I do agree that these devils have soley destructive moves which only their specific attacks or abilities scale to.

If only those devils' specific attacks or abilities scale to the move, then how would Denji or Makima scale to them at all? That's not an outlier, that just doesn't happen. An outlier would be if they did scale but it's then contradicted by every other showing of power they have.

 

[GunshyFever]

If only those devils' specific attacks or abilities scale to the move, then how would Denji or Makima scale to them at all? That's not an outlier, that just doesn't happen. An outlier would be if they did scale but it's then contradicted by every other showing of power they have.

My thoughts if they were clear:

 

[Zabazab]

I want to see Kiga's expression change.