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I guess I'll add it in then.
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Chainsaw Man discussion thread
- Thread starter Rez
- Start date
Zabazab
Any/All- 6,603
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Does it need to be clarified here in our Lord's Chainsaw Mid discussion thread that Yoru's stats are completely and utterly unchanged?
In her P&A she has "no longer needs to name a weapon" mentioned in her Enhanced Transmutation.
She gains [whatever tier] with Right Gun Gauntlet, 7-A with Gun Goddess. She gains MHS+ (mach 4000) attack speed with Right Gun Gauntlet, Sub-Rel attack speed with Gun Goddess. She gains Planetary range with her Gun Devil powers.
In her P&A she has "no longer needs to name a weapon" mentioned in her Enhanced Transmutation.
She gains [whatever tier] with Right Gun Gauntlet, 7-A with Gun Goddess. She gains MHS+ (mach 4000) attack speed with Right Gun Gauntlet, Sub-Rel attack speed with Gun Goddess. She gains Planetary range with her Gun Devil powers.
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But makima's bang is bigger in size. which could mean she amps it with her already existing powers.
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Wait... How to clarify her Massively Hypersonic+ attack speed then? Eh, could someone do this for me? Edit: added, but not sure if the clarification is accurate or not.
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Acertainbcplayer/sandbox
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It's really not.
Both Finger Guns are the Gun Devil's power, and Yoru's should be at least on the level of Makima's.
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Added the Massively hypersonic+ attack speed for Yoru, could anyone check if it's good enough pls?
Zabazab
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Specify "Massively Hypersonic+ attack speed with Right Gun Gauntlet (Justification)" and "Sub-Relativistic attack speed with Gun Goddess". Remove "likely higher" from the AP, and merge the justification into the AP of her Right Gun Gauntlet.
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If you say they both should be on the same level you'd be saying 20% gun above 28% gun devil. Assuming makima doesn't amp her bang means bang damage pochita, the 20% without amp damages pochita. The 28% made into gauntlets which amps it to damage pochita. The amount that yoru amped is so ridiculous that due to her being feared worldwide and the guilt she is feeling for turning her children into weapons.
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Please read better, and also write better because Holy Run-On-Sentences Batman. Capitalizing names would also be nice.
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Done with the speed and AP merge + fixed some minor typos. Should we create tabbing for her equipment section?
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We really should trim down the explanation for each tier on this profile, a sentence or two is fine but this "The Gun Goddess shot a bullet from the Statue of Liberty all the way to Tokyo, upon reaching the destination it pierced through a group of buildings in front of The War Fiend creating a large hole and destroyed several city blocks behind those buildings, nearly killing Pochita leaving only the upper half of his body which suffered severe damage, losing even the chainsaw on his head" is kinda ridiculous.Wait... How to clarify her Massively Hypersonic+ attack speed then? Eh, could someone do this for me? Edit: added, but not sure if the clarification is accurate or not.
Acertainbcplayer/sandbox
Zabazab
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"The Gun Goddess shot an enormous fingertip from New York to Tokyo at incredible speed, producing this much kinetic energy"
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Why are we even going about scaling? We still have about 2 volumes left.
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I'll list out all of the long loong ones and you guys suggest which one I should trim down:
1: her Summoning ability
2: The explanation for her regen via weapon creation
3: Town level+ AP
1: her Summoning ability
2: The explanation for her regen via weapon creation
3: Town level+ AP
DrGreyman
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because this seems like a pretty safe bet for the end of the arc?
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Imagine right in the next chapter the natural disaster devil or some shit just pops up out of nowhere and Yoru got her tank gauntlet showcase.
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We know definitively that Yoru scales to her own calc, because that's how feats work. Whether anyone else scales is up in the air, but that wasn't what was being discussed anyway.
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I have another recommendation. If a tier has "at least" before the tier in question, then their should be no need to add the "likely Higher" as it's redundant. So we could cut down "at least 7-C with Gun Gauntlet, likely Higher" to just "at least 7-C with Gun Gauntlet".
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Would Denji and Makima scale to the power of the Typhoon Devil who created City or Town (to even Mountain) level storms? They're more feared than him, or inverse scale over him, right?
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And about this, wouldn't you have superior output, and be superior in absolutely anything, if you're feared more than a devil?
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Despite what Death Battle said, no. That was Environmental Destruction, Typhoon can't punch that hard, and Denji and Makima have no feats that make scaling them to the energy released from a storm's worth of water condensating from vapor to liquid something reasonable to do.
If we did that, then we'd also be scaling "Justice" Devil contractors to the Fire Devil's heatwave, which would also be absurd.
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But they are more feared than him, meaning they can output more in general and are superior in every capacity, right?
Arkenis
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how does that make sense?
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If Makima and Post-Chainsaw Church Denji had some kind of Environmental AoE as part of their repertoire, then that would scale above Typhoon's AoE, but they don't. All that means is their physical bodies are stronger than Typhoon's.
Don't like the term "output" you're using. Devil's don't operate on a Universal Energy System where Fear is Ki that they use to fuel their powers like an engine burning coal, otherwise Yoru's physicals would scale to the Gun Goddess.
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tecnically they do because it IS her weapon
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You mean to tell me- with a straight face- that Yoru can throw punches with the force of a car-sized bullet going fast enough to circumnavigate most of the world in two seconds?
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I think people are just not understanding how Fujimoto powerscales with devils. Yes, Typhoon is quite a strong fear and it's shown through the ability to literally creates storm, plus the sheer destructive capability it got. But when compare to sheer Striking Strength and speed/dura as well as the 2nd biggest factor for all strong devils, being the regen power, Denji and Reze are leagues better. It's like how a human could kill an elephant with a strong bow, several arrows and good skills.
Look at primal fears, I don't see they got invincible dura (not if you're darkness at least), but their striking power/hax and regen just renders everything else useless. That's why I love how Fujimoto utilize his power system, it's not just "oh damn this devil is more feared than that devil so it's gonna be stronger in every aspects and solo the heck out of the other fodder devils" type shi, it's not just "this guy has fire and that guy has stronger fire so he wins".
Look at primal fears, I don't see they got invincible dura (not if you're darkness at least), but their striking power/hax and regen just renders everything else useless. That's why I love how Fujimoto utilize his power system, it's not just "oh damn this devil is more feared than that devil so it's gonna be stronger in every aspects and solo the heck out of the other fodder devils" type shi, it's not just "this guy has fire and that guy has stronger fire so he wins".
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But isn't it like true? If you are feared more, you HAVE to output more joule outputs than whatever devil and just be more powerful than them in anything, right? Even if it's not through ED?
For example, Typhoon created a Mountain or City (let's go with the latter) level storm (even if it's through environmental destruction, it's still a joule output feat he did) - which is 6.3x10^8 joules
Makima and Denji are both more feared then him
So they have > 6.3x10^8 joules
Denji clearly just shows his joule output through AP, same for Makima
So, both of them have higher than 6.3x10^8 joules which scales to their AP
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wrong, that much power ain't getting city bruv, this is small building level type shi.
Man, chainsaw man downscales...
Anyways, since Gun Devil has suffered from air drag, meaning Fujiwater is a genius and never forgor air drag exists, so petition to add air drag into the calcs so I can finally wank Chainsaw Man to country level!!!
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What? He literally covered the entire area of Tokyo and created a huge storm, that's at bare minimum Small City, and I've seen even Island level calculations.
How would Makima and Denji scale to current Yoru, Pochita, and Aging Devil? (And honestly isn't it just an attack that doesn't scale to their durability, and Pochita never even tanked the 2nd attack, so none of them scale to the attack in dura or striking?)
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No, because devils aren't just meat-sacks with a strength number attached to them like a data-tag. This isn't late DBZ, where a fight is mashing two action figures together until one of them breaks. (That isn't to say that DBZ fights are bad, but it's a very different story than Chainsaw Man thematically)
630,000,000 joules is Small Building level+. Have you even looked at the Verse Page? Standard Storm Creation is right there in the Supporting Calcs section.
Fear does not directly equal Power. Fear (and other stuff like Gun Flesh) boosts a Devil's abilities, which differ from devil to devil. Typhoon has huge AoE, allowing for big numbers in Environmental Destruction. Denji and Makima don't. You are still picturing fear being some form of concentrated energy that must escape out of a devil. It does not work like that.
Yeah, but 630,000,000 joules is only Small Building level+.
We don't know. We'll handle it later.
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But isn't it stated that the more feared a devil is, the more powerful it is in general? Like when Makima talked about the coffee devil or something. More feared devils would scale above anything less feared devils can do with this, right?
Then that's my bad, I mean whatever joule output that's city level if I mistook that.
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Fujimoto IS just weird with the scaling
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If it was just their physicals? Sure (assuming their physicals had nothing to do with their name-based abilities). But Typhoon's storm is specifically a result of Typhoon's name-based ability, which other devils don't have.
Mid-Tiers don't scale to/above Bat's Sonic Attack (which is way higher than its physicals) because of Fear Scaling, as Bat's Sonic Attack is something derived from its Name and thus is specific to Bat (it's cranked up echolocation). Mid-Tiers scale above the move because of Denji's statement about him being able to kill way more devils post-training, despite knowing about Bat's stupid strong move.
If more feared devils automatically scaled above anything less feared devils could do, then the Weapons should scale above Angel's Millennium Spear.
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Yes, but Typhoon's ability being of Typhoon alone isn't what's important, it's the joule output that Typhoon did. What does being more powerful than Typhoon mean if not outputting more joules and just scaling way higher than Typhoon? And what evidence is there to show Makima stating "The more feared a devil is, the more powerful it is" is just in terms of striking strength, because this doesn't make any sense for Makima to say power = strength, and some devils that are more feared than others have low striking iirc
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Here is the thing:
Think about the coffee devil, now what if the coffee devil is suddenly feared more than even death itself? What would happen? Idk, maybe it can create tsunami of coffee or something? Drown the world in it's Coffee? Eh, still lose to Goku. But Death won't.
Well, if you think about it, what's there about coffee to be scared of? 99.99% of people on earth would say "wtf are you on about bro?" and yeah, I agree, because the power system represented in chainsaw man is realistic. Why was this devil so strong? Because they're more feared. Oh, so then why are they more feared? Because the concept they embodies is more dangerous/scarier, that's why. Even if the coffee Devil were to be more feared than the death devil somehow, death devil would still be able to outhax it and kill it, because coffee are not scary and dangerous as death itself.
Then think again, for example, now people fear muscle as much as Death, then why is the death devil stronger than the Muscle Devil? Because of hax. See, big muscle can be scary, but irl, why would you be scared of muscle more than death? Eh, idk, a unique phobia to you or something? But in any case, death is scary because it's unavoidable, you die = end. What about muscle? Well, muscle punches strong, muscle run fast! That's about it, and death? Well maybe it could just straight up kill the muscle Devil? Yeah, why not? It's death after all.
Eh, enough mental exercise, let's get to Chainsaw and Bomb. Now because Denji and Reze are hybirds, they won't be as strong as the literal Devil itself. But that's beyond the point. Why could Denji kill Typhoon? Because Chainsaw man's power are boosted heavily by Devils so Chainsaw is more feared, but why won't Denji scale to what Typhoon can do with it's hax then?
Think about this: A human against Jason with a chainsaw and a human against a storm, who would likely to die more? Eh, you got it right, while the storm has more destructive capability and has more energy than a billion Jasons could ever have, it can't just focus all of that and freaking kill you on the spot, while Jason can because his chainsaws are deadly to a human, you can't run or hide from him cause he's physically stronger than you. So you got my point, being more feared INDEED scales a devil up generally, that means they're stronger based on what they could do with available abilities. Maybe Typhoon Devil could create stronger storms when it get stronger meaning in general, it got stronger and can inflict more pain on humanity, but Pochita if feared equally to it then he could easily kill Typhoon with his chainsaws plus he's faster and can hit a huge sized monster like Typhoon easier.
Basically, think what each concepts represents, get creative with it and be realistic with it and boom, Chainsaw man powerscaling!
Zabazab
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None of this matters because Chainsaw Man has neither a UES nor a NPES. Ergo non-physical feats– ESPECIALLY ones not even used to attack– do not scale to physical stats automatically.
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If more fear just equalled more power, why didn't Typhoon just punch Denji with 5.44 f*cking megatons of power?
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