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Chainsaw Man discussion thread

ElajRuengies said:
Statuing is (Distance Moved/(0.00275/Projectile Speed in m/s)), Aging just raised its arm so assuming (diameter of 1m * half circle =) Pi meters for convenience and ~4.9% SoL for the Gun Goddess shot, that's 16.78 billion m/s, or 55.78c.

Meaning Aging would scale literally several hundreds of thousands of times faster than the value Darkness scales above (Quanxi).

The fact that the sand the bullet turned into fell to the ground at normal speeds implies that it's just selective timestop though.
Click to expand...
Did this calc take into account that:

Aging casually *sigh now what? monologue -> raise hand and turn bullet to dust (could stop the calc at this point tbh) -> monologue again -> bang. All while Yoru is still statued and didn't even realize anything at all.

But tbh, 55c is already bs level already.

ElajRuengies said:
On the other hand, the sand the bullet dissolves to falls at the Earth at normal speeds, meaning it could be a targeted time stop.
Click to expand...
Bravo! Problem solved then! It's basically confirmed now.
GunshyFever said:
Nah, if it was, he wouldn't have gotten his hands removed by Pochita twice.
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Hmmm... I don't think so. Firstly, the order it got was simply "H.I.T", and it did so through a mirror from hell to earth, and take into account the fact that it's only the hand was attack, while the bullet was fired directly to it's body. There could still be a possibility that the ability itself is semi-passive (pre-high Gojo type shi), so basically it was messing around lazily, either that or could be that the ability doesn't apply to it's hand or something, OR maybe the ability only activates when Aging's main body was in danger of being severely damaged (not that it would kill it, just the possibility of being damaged), we could have many interpretation, later chapters will tell I guess.

Also I forgor, Aging WANTED to die, so the theory that it was messing around so the passive didn't work is also a quite valid one.
 
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Acertainbcplayer said:
Did this calc take into account that:

Aging casually *sigh now what? monologue -> raise hand and turn bullet to dust (could stop the calc at this point tbh) -> monologue again -> bang. All while Yoru is still statued and didn't even realize anything at all.

But tbh, 55c is already bs level already.
Click to expand...
The mouth moves independently of the hand so it'd be a separate speed calc (FTL talking lmao), and the bang wouldn't add much since his hand was already raised. The speed from regular time passing for someone while the world is in ultra slow-mo isn't something that can be calced by my knowledge, or it'd be perception rather than movement speed.

But yeah, 55c is BS.
 
GunshyFever said:
Like Elaj said, it's a targeted time stop, Pochita is just the faster fighter here.
Click to expand...
Could also be the case (but then put in context, it'd still be weird because Aging seemed to not care for shit if it was hit by that). Pochita being faster would still make sense though, but things are still looking quite confusing.
 
Bruh said:
I'm glad Fujimotor kept the Primal devils mysterious and powerful after all this time and didn't go the High end Nomu and Gigantomachia route from My hero, and make them less and less impactful with each appearences. Could change over time but i have faith in him
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Imagine if the first time we saw a Primal, it was Darkness going extreme-diff with Pochita + Makima Supporting, and then the second time we saw a Primal, it was Hybrid Quanxi fighting four of fhem at the same time, after being summoned by Fami so she can an escape, and the only explanation how Quanxi managed that was that they were arbitrarily weakened by being contracted so hastily.
 
ElajRuengies said:
Imagine if the first time we saw a Primal, it was Darkness going extreme-diff with Pochita + Makima Supporting, and then the second time we saw a Primal, it was Hybrid Quanxi fighting four of fhem at the same time, after being summoned by Fami so she can an escape, and the only explanation how Quanxi managed that was that they were arbitrarily weakened by being contracted so hastily.
Click to expand...
Man, Fujimaster would never!
Tbh, you would only see shit like that in typical Shounen manga where the upgrade in powerlevel is always needed for character to shines (not that it's needed in all cases, it's just that most Shounen authors seems to not be able to get through that wall).

In my cosmic horror and main character torturing manga? NEVER! Chainsaw man wasn't about fighting anyways, it's something more like Lovecraftian horror.

Anyways, talking about power level, man, I can't wait until the Nuke Devil comes back and get totally negs by primal fears, like I swear, lots of people still calling primal fears frauds that won't survive cells destruction because no feat, but I swear my Goat Nuke will comeback and proves them wrong once and for all! Well... Not that Aging would even hurt one bit though. Also, it's too clear now that a Nuke won't do anything to them, they've been compared to full power Gun Devil as transcendent to it, I can see no reason why they would even budge from one (especially after Aging's feat).
 
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Alright, I like talking about uber-hax and biggatons as much as the next guy, but we shouldn't fall into the trap of only focusing on the God-Tiers and neglect the Mid-Tiers. (Not that anyone can be blamed for that considering what the story is currently focusing on, but still-)

The Calcs that the Mid-Tiers scale to (Bat's Sonic AP and Denji's Durability) have slight issues can be easily fixed, but they result downgrading te AP by a bit.
  • Bat Devil's Sonic AP: Building hollowness should be 90% like with Fox's Chomp, not 80%, which halves the value to 45.57 tons. If I wanna be really severe, the fact that they're still visible rubble means it's Violent Fragging rather than Pulverization, as Pulverization means being turned to sand or no visible remains, which would tank the value to 4.57 tons.
That may seem extreme, but Fox's Bite is only 0.0278 tons, and one-shot Bat's Girlfriend, and I'm pretty sure that there'd be problems if a couple had more than a three-thousand times AP difference. (Or 280x if you think Bat's physicals are the same as Hybrid Denji's) Granted, Leech got hurt from a barely Transformed Denji, so a big gap AP between Leech and Bat is likely, but one by several hundred times is still odd.
  • Denji's Durability uses half of skin-surface area rather than a human cross-section. (The cross-sectional area of a unit sphere is a unit circle's area, or Pi, while half its surface area is 2*Pi). 0.68 square meters should be used instead of 0.84 square meters. From Explosions-
  • CA is approximately 0.68 m^2 for a grown human. It can also be estimated as half of the bodies surface area calculated using this, but that is a slight overestimation.
Click to expand...
  • This would bring Hybrid Denji's durability down to 3.25 tons, or 0.325 tons, only 117x / 11.7x above Fox's AP.
At this point the values are low enough that we can start using other Calcs to scale people. Unfortunately, a lot of those calcs are Kinetic Energy calcs, meaning they're inherently shit, but if it means not using a single feat (and withstanding said feat) to scale 70% of the verse, then it's a necessary evil I can swallow. Here's one-
  • Katana Man's Quick Draw KE- assuming he weighs ~100kg- is (27947.7762339^2 * 100/2) = 9.3341 tons. Hybrid Denji actually manages to block this while being ran through a wall, so Post-Training Denji and everyone who scales above him's still Large Building level.
It's worth pointing out that Katana Man and Denji's bodies can't handle running into each other's blades at that speed, but since we know from Pochita blocking Yoru's Fingerbang that the metal chainsaws are more durable than the rest of him, that's not a contradiction, just piercing damage. This also means Public Safety Uniform's are stupidly durable, and people who scale above (Transformed Violence, Kobeni's Piercing Damage, etc.) might be above to upscale to City Block level (11 tons is only 1.179x higher).

Edit: Looking at the Verse's calcs, it seems like literally all of the building calcs except Fox's Chomp use 80% Hollowness for some reason. Bruh.

Edit 2: Goodness the Verse Page looks like garbage.
 
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GunshyFever said:
Pretty sure the bat devils AP stuffs was discussed in a large CRT I made when I just joined, so you could possibly get some answers from it.
Thread 'Chainsaw Man Upgrades' https://vsbattles.com/threads/chainsaw-man-upgrades.161378/
Click to expand...
Read through the thread, and funnily enough, this question by @Passersby was never answered besides "We switched to a different calc so it's fine now."
why is pulverization even used?

Nothing indicates the area was literally pulverized to dust, the structural integrity of the buildings in question should also be taken into consideration as cracks will easily propagate when the damage is dealt to the structure which also requires far less energy

The calc doesn't take into account the actual structure of the building. Instead of treating it as a relatively hollow structure composed reinforced concrete bound together with mortar he calc simply adds up the total volume of the material and treats it as a single, solid mass that was all somehow pulverized or turned to little pieces

It should take into account that simply breaking parts of the building will compromise its structural integrity and make it collapse on itself, as well...well, all the above

If I'm being honest I was questioning my sanity just seeing destroying some buildings required 400 tons of tnt

also looking at the panel provided the area it assumed was destroyed wasn't as we can very visibly see trough the yellow ball, the area in front of it is largely unharmed, rather the damage was in the form of a circle with everything else being untouched exept for some shattered glass

the calc should be scrapped
Click to expand...
-this is despite the fact that the new version of the Calc also used Pulverization. Also Building Hollowness being 80% rather than 90% was never addressed.
 
Zabazab said:
Pulv was used because the main area being calced outright vanishes. The building around it fragments while the middle just disappears.
Click to expand...
Except that it doesn't just vanish, Denji's knocked into the building, and the next shot of Denji getting up has him explode out from a bunch of rocks.
 
ElajRuengies said:
Except that it doesn't just vanish,
Click to expand...
It does. The fact that after it collapses we can see both fragments and dust doesn't refute that.

Centre of destruction just vanishes, then a ring of V.Frag around it, then a ring of Frag around that.
 
Zabazab said:
It does. The fact that after it collapses we can see both fragments and dust doesn't refute that.

Centre of destruction just vanishes, then a ring of V.Frag around it, then a ring of Frag around that.
Click to expand...
You can still see flecks of debris inside the center, and that's not rubble from the outer rings falling inward since the blast pushes everything outward in the panel.
 
Zabazab said:
I would say it pushes backward, not outward.
Click to expand...
Then that's rubble from the center-front of the building which still wasn't obliterated.

Another reason to critique using Pulv. is that the AP result is simply too high for the character that pulls it off. Characters stronger than Bat (Reze, Santa) don't pull off anything close to 97 tons even though they also demolish buildings.

Chainsaw Man just has a huge gap in DC between the Gun Devil and almost everything else.
 
The DC isn't remotely close to even 20% of the Gun Devil tho? And the people who scale to the Pulv end are powercliffing characters who don't. Personally I don't see a problem.
 
Does anyone else think it's pretty weird that the Violence Devil is so weak in Chainsaw Man? So many fears (including War) ultimately boil down to a fear of violence and/or injury (and of course, death), so why was he so weak?

Also, where's the Injury Devil, or Pestilence/Disease? Pestilence should be really powerful as a Horseman of the Apocalypse (I know Pestilence wasn't one of the original Horsemen, but it supplanted Conquest as one of them, and disease should be a Primal Fear since it's something life has had to deal with for millions, maybe billions of years).
 
ShiftCtrlAltDeleteTabFn said:
Does anyone else think it's pretty weird that the Violence Devil is so weak in Chainsaw Man? So many fears (including War) ultimately boil down to a fear of violence and/or injury (and of course, death), so why was he so weak?

Also, where's the Injury Devil, or Pestilence/Disease? Pestilence should be really powerful as a Horseman of the Apocalypse (I know Pestilence wasn't one of the original Horsemen, but it supplanted Conquest as one of them, and disease should be a Primal Fear since it's something life has had to deal with for millions, maybe billions of years).
Click to expand...
Iirc Violence is a representation of street violence rather than the whole concept, it just got ****** in translation
 
GunshyFever said:
The DC isn't remotely close to even 20% of the Gun Devil tho? And the people who scale to the Pulv end are powercliffing characters who don't. Personally I don't see a problem.
Click to expand...
Fair enough, but using Pulv. is still iffy from a Calc standpoint.
ShiftCtrlAltDeleteTabFn said:
Does anyone else think it's pretty weird that the Violence Devil is so weak in Chainsaw Man? So many fears (including War) ultimately boil down to a fear of violence and/or injury (and of course, death), so why was he so weak?
Click to expand...
1. Violence was a Fiend, which is an automatic huge nerf, and then they had to nerf him even more with a poison dispensing mask because he was still too strong.
2. It was an Aging-moment. While "Violence" is technically the right word, there's semantics in the name that mean it specifically refers to Street/Gang/Crime Violence. A better name for Galgali would be "The Street Fiend."
ShiftCtrlAltDeleteTabFn said:
Also, where's the Injury Devil, or Pestilence/Disease? Pestilence should be really powerful as a Horseman of the Apocalypse (I know Pestilence wasn't one of the original Horsemen, but it supplanted Conquest as one of them, and disease should be a Primal Fear since it's something life has had to deal with for millions, maybe billions of years).
Click to expand...
Barem specifically mentioned Aging and Sickness together, and in the Street Preacher's death statistics, the most common causes of death after 7/20 for devil attacks were old age and illness at 5/20 each, with the remaining 3/20 being split between suicide, homicide, and isekaid (traffic accidents).

So Sickness is most likely a Primal.
 
ElajRuengies said:
1. Violence was a Fiend, which is an automatic huge nerf, and then they had to nerf him even more with a poison dispensing mask because he was still too strong.
Click to expand...
I did forget about that.
ElajRuengies said:
2. It was an Aging-moment. While "Violence" is technically the right word, there's semantics in the name that mean it specifically refers to Street/Gang/Crime Violence. A better name for Galgali would be "The Street Fiend."
Click to expand...
What's Aging's name supposed to be?
ElajRuengies said:
Barem specifically mentioned Aging and Sickness together, and in the Street Preacher's death statistics, the most common causes of death after 7/20 for devil attacks were old age and illness at 5/20 each, with the remaining 3/20 being split between suicide, homicide, and isekaid (traffic accidents).

So Sickness is most likely a Primal.
Click to expand...
Cool.
 
ShiftCtrlAltDeleteTabFn said:
Maybe Fujimoto will introduce the Time Devil at some point (why? I have no idea).
Click to expand...
We have a bunch of devils who can somewhat to completely have control over an aspect of time:
Eternity devil: It caused time to stop (the weakest type obviously)
Future Devil: Foreseeing
Old Age devil: Time stop (all types of application for the ability)

So I don't think Fujimoto will introduce the time devil, just another variant of it. Now that I think about it, wouldn't the time devil be nuts?
 
Acertainbcplayer said:
We have a bunch of devils who can somewhat to completely have control over an aspect of time:
Eternity devil: It caused time to stop (the weakest type obviously)
Future Devil: Foreseeing
Old Age devil: Time stop (all types of application for the ability)

So I don't think Fujimoto will introduce the time devil, just another variant of it. Now that I think about it, wouldn't the time devil be nuts?
Click to expand...
Fujimoto, introduce the Tier 0 Devil and make Denji eat it!
 
ElajRuengies said:
Born from the fear of having to read through Theology, Philosophy, Non-Standard Axiomatic Set Theory, and UltimaReality's Autobiography in order to see if [Insert Biblically Dense Fictional Cosmology Here] gets the special number.
Click to expand...
This is why the new rules where needed, I HATED the old rules.
ShiftCtrlAltDeleteTabFn said:
Fujimoto, introduce the Tier 0 Devil and make Denji eat it!
Click to expand...
Now that I think about it, people always go on about how X character in csm negs Y character in JJK and the opposite, but ain't all it took is for Pochita to eat the canonically curse devil? Damn, we wasted our time debating all this time....

Also, csm is one of the verse that could easily get to boundless with NLF with some of the most insane hax ever. What devil do you think could achieve this that could Possibly exists in csm without being an odd one?
 
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Acertainbcplayer said:
This is why the new rules where needed, I HATED the old rules.

Now that I think about it, people always go on about how X character in csm negs Y character in JJK and the opposite, but ain't all it took is for Pochita to eat the canonically curse devil? Damn, we wasted our time debating all this time....

Also, csm is one of the verse that could easily get to boundless without NLF with some of the most insane hax ever. What devil do you think could achieve this that could Possibly exists in csm without being an odd one?
Click to expand...
Chainsaw Man absolutely could not get to Boundless, if you're specifically referring to Tier 0 Boundless.

Even if Plato's Form of Forms Devil was a thing, all eating it would do would get rid of a chunk of his and Socrates's dialogues from history, since there's no proof that the universe is structured that way. (Devils embodying concepts is not proof that the material world exists by temporarily participating in the eternal forms) If Pochita ate the Zombie Devil, all that would do is get rid of the monster archetype from fiction in Chainsaw Man.

If me making fun of Tier 0 in my last message didn't clue anyone in, I'd rather not talk about the insanity at the high end of the Tiering System.
 
ElajRuengies said:
If Pochita ate the Zombie Devil, all that would do is get rid of the monster archetype from fiction in Chainsaw Man.
Click to expand...
Edit: I realized I got a major typo there, caused some misunderstanding for you, it's supposed to be "with NLF". Bruh...

Also, I want to talk about the whole "devil are embodiment of concepts" thing, are we agreeing that erasing the devil means erasing the concept itself? This used to be iffy, but with the current arc, I could somewhat confidently say that it's the case.

Tier 0 is simple, just stack layers of Outer to infinity, transcends, repeat that again then say "there's a god that is unbound by anything at all". Job done.
 
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Acertainbcplayer said:
Edit: I realized I got a major typo there, caused some misunderstanding for you, it's supposed to be "with NLF". Bruh...
Click to expand...
Ah, that makes a lot more sense.
Acertainbcplayer said:
Also, I want to talk about the whole "devil are embodiment of concepts" thing, are we agreeing that erasing the devil means erasing the concept itself? This used to be iffy, but with the current arc, I could somewhat confidently say that it's the case.
Click to expand...
Acertainbcplayer said:
Tier 0 is simple, just stack layers of Outer to infinity, transcends, repeat that again then say "there's a god that is unbound by anything at all". Job done.
Click to expand...
The fact that you lowercased god in the explanation makes it funnier to me and I'm not sure why.

Prediction for 181: Fighting's mostly over, the chapter will be largely dialogue.

Denji's either not gonna wake up, or only wake up at the end so Asa and Yoru have a chance to scream at each other.

Also I realized that Guilly scales above Katana Man for being able to cut through Public Safety uniforms with the nudifier attack.
 
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ElajRuengies said:
The fact that you lowercased god in the explanation makes it funnier to me and I'm not sure why.
Click to expand...
-"yeah so there's this god who transcends everything"
-"lil bro put the fries into the bag🫸🫷"
ElajRuengies said:
Prediction for 181: Fighting's mostly over, the chapter will be largely dialogue.
Click to expand...
We'll meet the crazier ones, seeing most of them are either Cicadas or Beetles
ElajRuengies said:
Denji's either not gonna wake up, or only wake up at the end so Asa and Yoru have a chance to scream at each other.
Click to expand...
Asa gonna carry Denji the whole way while Yoru trying to switch to kill Denji (she only makes the team move slower)
 
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