Cell Downgrade to Baseline 4-B

[Jman8009]

All the guides for Dragon Ball confirm it, and there's nothing to suggest that Cell is bluffing. There's really no reason to downgrade him.

 

[Saikou_The_Lewd_King]

I say what I said in the previous thread:

Cell being this much above baseline relies solely on the fact that he was in the process of charging an attack while doing it (And being on Earth), which seems really assumption-filled for upgrading half the verse way above any shown feats, especially when baseline 4-B seems more consistent.

 

[Dark649]

This thread turned worst than expected, some people believe Manga Super Perfect Cell 4-B is too much for him while his Anime counterpart is 4-A for being superior to Restricted Super Saiyan Broly feat since he absorbed 18.

 

[Assaltwaffle]

@JMan8009

This isn't about dropping him from 4-B. Never was. This is about whether he is baseline or KiloFOE.

Edit: Idk who changed the title but that is causing confusion. I'm changing it back.

 

[The_real_cal_howard]

Keep in mind that Kirby's not High 3-A even though WoG and an omniscient put him there, while Cell's 4-B via the same things, but replace an omniscient with Cell himself, but once again, I am not currently advocating for Cell to be under 4-B.

 

[Jman8009]

@Kinkiestsins Are you serious? Almost everyone knows how badly DBZ gets stomped by almost any character with hax. I've never seen anything like that.

 

[Schnee_One]

Cal

Stop

 

[Kepekley23]

@Assalt

This became a 4-B downgrade few posts into the discussion.

Downgrading him to baseline is fine. I don't really care about that. What I care about is the "High 4-C" or Low 4-C downgrade, which I disagree with completely.

 

[Celestial_Judge]

Insults being thrown over the internet are always exciting.

 

[The_real_cal_howard]

Cal

Stop

...for what? Not only was I against High 3-A Kirby on my wankiest of days, but I said that I didn't want to downgrade Cell under 4-B right now.

You're blowing things out of proportion, untintentionally making an already bad thread worse by demonizing me.

 

[Rocker1189]

Cal
Stop

Why should he? As far as I know he is correct. We need to stop picking and choosing and make a decision on what we accept.

 

[Assaltwaffle]

So does anyone here have any valid reasons as to why Cell should be down to baseline? "More assumptions" is not an excuse. In fact, assuming he is baseline requires more assumptions than KiloFOE.

 

[Celestial_Judge]

Is there a discord. I think if you guys debated there it would be much more efficient.

 

[RadicalMrR]

@Assalt

This became a 4-B downgrade few posts into the discussion.

Downgrading him to baseline is fine. I don't really care about that. What I care about is the "High 4-C" or Low 4-C downgrade, which I disagree with completely.

Ive been hanging out at the obd lately and even users there think the old guard should have died of Cell not being 4-B when episode 12 of DBS aired.

 

[Megamangohan]

Why does this even need to be a thing, The pages themselves stay the same regardless

 

[KinkiestSins]

@Kinkiestsins Are you serious? Almost everyone knows how badly DBZ gets stomped by almost any character with hax. I've never seen anything like that.

Look at Goku's wins in super and come back to me.

Look at how everyone in the verse, despite no feats, has the 'possibly portal creation' as a power.

Look at how everyone in the verse in between freeza and cell are just spitballed a random tier because "Well, I dont know muh feelings."

Look at how we NLF aspects of their character not remotely implied by their narrative.

I dont think it is unfair to me to say this, I am done with the verse.

Does it sound like I am jaded? Because I am. We have different standards for dragon ball compared to every other verse.

I am really, really close to downgrading everyone in between to just "At Least High 5-A." until we get to cell.

Literally no feats? Check

Random power scaling? Check

No clear inclination of the plot? Check.

 

[AKM sama]

@Radical

Many peeps on NF also agree with 4-B Cell now. It's just OBD's old guard not letting go.

 

[Assaltwaffle]

Why does this even need to be a thing, The pages themselves stay the same regardless

It matters because his AP, while the tier won't change, will diminish by more than 50x.

 

[Shadowbokunohero]

wth is happening here, can anyone give me an abridged version

 

[AKM sama]

Btw, AW made a pretty good case about the same thing in the previous thread, which you are trying to argue @Cal.

 

[Megamangohan]

It matters because his AP, while the tier won't change, will diminish by more than 50x.

will this be mentioned on the page itself?

 

[KinkiestSins]

So does anyone here have any valid reasons as to why Cell should be down to baseline? "More assumptions" is not an excuse. In fact, assuming he is baseline requires more assumptions than KiloFOE.

Count me in for Baseline. I think considering how popular the statement is, dropping the entire 4-B tier to just Kilofoe is probably better for us imo.

But hey thats just me.

If we keep the tier as is? Kilofoe.

 

[Dark649]

It seems that Matthew is the one the Admins that started to fuel this thread. This thread started from a normal baseline downgrade to a chaos downgrade.

 

[SomebodyData]

I think that assuming baseline would require more assumptions, from what I am understanding here.

@Kink you should probably stop calling most of the wiki biased pro DB, its a quick way to get banned.

 

[The_real_cal_howard]

@Rad. While I could care less about Cell staying in 4-B, what does episode 12 have anything to do with that? The existence of Raditz didn't make Roshi's feat any less of an outlier. Gardevoir isn't 4-A for her feat just because Arceus exists.

 

[DodoNova2]

I guess I'll have to write my little comment:

• Well I think both sides are right, on the one hand, the energy to destroy a solar system =/= destroy sun/earth and the solar system via chain reaction but the most logical hypotesis is that it was going to destroy the SS destroying the sun / earth to cause a chain reaction.

 

[Kepekley23]

Keep in mind that Kirby's not High 3-A even though WoG and an omniscient put him there, while Cell's 4-B via the same things, but replace an omniscient with Cell himself, but once again, I am not currently advocating for Cell to be under 4-B.

Self-contradictory WoG which says "infinite power" in one screen and "nearly infinite" power in the other = \ = A character who is 4-B based on a statement and the support of every single guidebook or secondary source imaginable.

 

[Kaltias]

Guys.

Calm down.

We should remain on topic and debate whether Cell should be KiloFoe or baseline.

I don't want to close this and make a staff only thread because it's a thing that I really hate, but I will if we can't stay on topic.

 

[Assaltwaffle]

@Kink

We discussed bumping the tier to KiloFOE before. It was denied. In that case I'll count you as supporting KiloFOE.

 

[Kepekley23]

Matthew was merely asserting his opinion, which had an unknowable domino effect on the thread. He is not the one to blame. I might disagree with him, but I won't stand by unfounded accusations and attempts to hold others accountable.

 

[Shadowbokunohero]

This thread is super Hostile....

 

[RadicalMrR]

@Rad. While I could care less about Cell staying in 4-B, what does episode 13 have anything to do with that? The existence of Raditz didn't make Roshi's feat any less of an outlier. Gardevoir isn't 4-A for her feat just because Arceus exists.

They have different reasons for Cell not being 4-B. (Stuff like Kid Buu only destroying earth)

 

[Jman8009]

@KinkiestSins

Goku seems to have won all those battles under pretty legit reasons

The reason why everyone has that is because almost everyone who scales to Super Buu should be able to do it. Gotenks and Piccolo were trying to do it just like Super Buu did which implies that everyone in the series can do it too.

Give me any examples of that, otherwise quit whining over nothing.

I'll give you the whole "No feats" but that doesn't make powerscaling suddenly void.

 

[RadicalMrR]

@Cal Also, calm down buddy.

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

I agree with Kaltias, and I also still agree that Cell should stay 1 Kilofoe. We don't need every DBZ revision thread to be a Strawman/derailment wars or any Content revision thread for that matter. No more memes or conspiracy comments.

 

[KinkiestSins]

@Kink you should probably stop calling most of the wiki biased pro DB, its a quick way to get banned.

Why, do you need a safespace SD because you cant handle an objective fact?

Goku has one of the highest number of matches on here. Goku is one of the first (if not the first profile one here), Goku has one of the highest, if not the highest page view on here.

I am done with this thread. I get partly I am using the 'Appeal to bias' fallacy, but this is my opinion.

My other opinion is, we keep him at Kilofoe and I honestly dont like the idea of how we have double standards for some verses.

I am sorry man, but calling out clear bias will get me banned because no one will say it out loud? Fine, I will say it out loud.

 

[Dragonmasterxyz]

People say Dragon Ball gets away with stuff, but I also feels as it is also looked at more closely than other verses. Also, delusional? Thanks for the insult nothing in the past thread implied "appease fans". It was moreso "I believe this makes sense".

I don't care about 4-B Cell, but I am sick and tired of people thinking "Oh DB gets away with so much" when the opposite is also true. I am sick and tired of when a big DBZ is downgraded, the reason is always "Made to appease fans". It's a two way street.

 

[DodoNova2]

the thread is uncontrollable.

 

[SomebodyData]

@Kink personally I agreed, I just thought antagonizing people doesn't help your cause.

Shame too, insulting a staff member and escalating the issue makes me have to ban you. Bye.

 

[LephyrTheRevanchist]

Disagree with op, agree with AW. That's all I'm going to say.