Celestialsapiens Regenerationn Upgrade

[MrLuk2000]

In the Ben 10 wiki of the Celestialsapiens, it says and I quote "Their omnipotence gives other abilities that do not truly require much decision making or thought to access, such as allowing them to near instantly regenerate from any physical damage"

Also in this episode known as "Universe v Tennyson" starting at 20:11, you can see the Alien X duplicates creating a black hole sucking Galactic Gladiator in and as Galactic Gladiator was struggling (and although failed) we see him getting shredded before his entire body gets destroyed and later gets sucked in. Then later, we see him in perfect condition.

Shown above and the statements of the Ben 10 wiki, wouldn't that be at least High regen? Low-Godly at most?

 

[MrLuk2000]

Bump

 

[Wokistan]

It doesn't seem like he really was going for a kill on the other guy there. Does the Ben 10 wiki source the low-godly esque claim?

 

[MrLuk2000]

It was sourced to the "Universe v Tennyson" episode. When the Alien X duplicates created a black hole and sucked the Galactic Gladiator in, his entire body was getting shreded and pulled in, then during the next scene we see Galactic Gladiator in perfect condition.

I also linked the episode.

 

[Wokistan]

No I mean is such a statement sourced or is it just that clip? Because given the context of a trial by combat thing, it seems more like that just wasn't lethal.

 

[MrLuk2000]

Its the clip

 

[Andytrenom]

Low Godly is a no given this is a wikia description and wouldn't necessarily be literal anyway

High is also suspicious because of Wok's points

 

[Firestorm808]

Low-High: The ability to regenerate from a very small piece of your body, such as a puddle or drop of blood, or even something as small as a single cell.

Mid-High: The ability to regenerate from being reduced to ash, dust, smoke, or vapor.

High: The ability to regenerate from scattered or lone molecules, atoms, particles, or even pure energy.

Low-Godly: The ability to regenerate from the complete physical destruction of your body, instead restoring it from your disembodied consciousness, whether that be your soul, mind, some other nonphysical aspect of yourself, esoteric or metaphysical energy, or something else.

I would say at least High-Mid, possibly Higher.

 

[Greenshifter]

It doesn't seem like he really was going for a kill on the other guy there. Does the Ben 10 wiki source the low-godly esque claim?

By that logic tho he might not even get mid-regen because the best Ben has seen from Galactic Gladiator come back from is his hand getting blown up. Ben probably assumed GG would be able to come back from whatever he threw at him and Bellicus and Serena could have talked the idea out of his head if they knew GG wouldn't be able to come back from that + Ben himself was turning into a black hole and presumably also Hawking radiation. Not only that but we see GG getting spaghettificated by a realistic rotating black hole and probably turning into energy when he hits the singularity and I've read on the page Black Hole Feats in Fictio that in the singularity even your subatomic particles would be ripped apart which I think means there are only strings left in you or I guess energy since energy is made of strings so I'd say the highest form of high regen for X and GG should be considered. Also here is a better link so you don't have to sit through a bazillion ads.

 

[Antvasima]

Andy and Wok seem to make sense.

 

[The_real_cal_howard]

It's certainly regen above what he has now. Also Ben did blow up his hand.

 

[Firestorm808]

Low-Mid: The ability to regenerate lost limbs, and even from severe organ damage or destruction, including traditionally fatal wounds and disembowelment or horizontal bisection. For machines and vehicles, this would be regenerating minor parts and more extensive internal damage.

 

[Antvasima]

So to recap, did Alien X have his hand blown up and then regenerate it?

 

[Greenshifter]

@Ant no Galactic Gladiator did that but Alien X has the same abilities as him, this is already noted on their page tho, the thing is Cal thinks that Galactic Gladiator's and Alien X's Regenerationn should be higher than this based on surviving getting shredded by a black hole while Wokistan claims that the attack was just not lethal so I think it would be best if I contacted Wokistan so he can explain his point further?

 

[Antvasima]

Okay. You should contact Wokistan then, yes.

 

[Greenshifter]

No I mean is such a statement sourced or is it just that clip? Because given the context of a trial by combat thing, it seems more like that just wasn't lethal.

Also there is this:

Ben: No time for banter. I'm fighting for my life here and your lives too. If Alien X loses, the whole universe is lost, permanently.

Ben: Are you even listening to me? Right now, our lives and the entire universe depend on you two being a little bit decisive.

Straight from the first (recent) Alien X upgrade thread, while Bellicus and Serena were only fined at the end of the trial, Ben still believed that his life and the fate of the universe were on the line in this moment (cause nobody told him about the fining) so him using a non-lethal attack could be risking the fate of the universe + we even see the effect the black hole has on Galactic Gladiator and that doesn't seem non-lethal to me. (Also I know this sorta contradicts what I said earlier but Ben can both be very smart or very dumb at times so there's no real way to tell, but both interpretations do lead to an upgrade)

 

[Corgi_the_Gen_Z_God]

.

 

[Firestorm808]

The Galactic Gladiator was turned into smaller pieces by the makeshift black hole. How small is up to interpretation.

 

[Antvasima]

Well, Wokistan seems to disagree with a High or Low-Godly Regenerationn rating.

 

[Greenshifter]

@Firestorm, well since it's the middle of the black hole and if it's accepted as a black hole then we should assume it's the singularity itself and then just follow what the Black Hole Feats in Fictio page has to say about it which results in high regen.

 

[The_real_cal_howard]

I think we should get Low-Mid or Mid regen from it.

 

[Greenshifter]

@Cal I assume because it looks like he gets flattened?

 

[The_real_cal_howard]

It's because he looks like he gets the treatment a pencil does when it goes into a sharpener.

 

[Greenshifter]

Yes, but one key difference the only thing that can cause such a thing with a black hole is spaghettification. And this is what the Black Hole Feats in Fictio page has to say about spaghettification:

The destructiveness of a black hole works over the same mechanism as for the gravitational fields of other celestial bodies: Through Tidal force, maybe better known as spaghettificatio in context with black holes. Tidal forces destroy things through the different strength of force on different points of the body. Basically points closer to the black hole get accelerated stronger than points further away and through that the whole thing gets stretched. One can easily imagine it by taking one end of a rubber band in each hand and then move the right hand swiftly to the right and the left hand slowly to the right. The distance between the hands will become larger and the rubber band will stretch. One will notice that the rubber band will begin pulling the hands together, which means that it will try to even out their speed. In the same way the forces holding our body together usually do so in a manner so that it is evenly accelerated through gravitation. But in a black hole things become extreme. Destruction would occur in three steps. First the body will just be ripped apart through tidal forces, because the force becames too strong to be counteracted through the forces holding the body together. Further in the tidal forces will become stronger than the four fundamental forces, which means that atoms will be disintegrated to the point that only elementary particles remain, without a special structure. In vs-battles terms that means they get disintegrated on quantum level. For our vs-physics a 3rd step gets important and that is at the center of the black hole. Gravity towards the center of the black hole gets exponentially stronger. At the very center it would, in theory, be infinite. That means also the tidal forces become infinite, so even things which at quantum level are a lot more durable than our physical matter would certainly be destroyed when approaching the center of the black hole.

 

[The_real_cal_howard]

Spaghetti fixation happens to you before you reach the singularity though. Gladiator was getting peeled after he passed through.

 

[Greenshifter]

Could be that X was still creating the black hole in that moment because the white ray of hawking radiation under the black hole was still growing.

 

[MrLuk2000]

bump

 

[Antvasima]

It doesn't seem like High Regenerationn is going to be accepted.

What else is left to do here?

 

[Greenshifter]

I asked DontTalk to comment here since he is a black hole expert so maybe wait a bit till he answers (if he wants to answer)

 

[AnonymousBlank]

I don't understand the arguments against the CRT.

Wok says Ben likely wasn't doing anything lethal despite being under the impression he/Alien X and his universe was going to die if he lost. Holding back in this scenario males no sense when he is being confronted by a celestialsapien which he knows to be the strongest alien he has ever encountered and far beyond anything and everything else at his disposal witha wide bevy of powers that would allow it to survive basically everything he can throw at it. The Omnitrix also gives him knowledge on what the different aliens are capable of so that he can use them despite gaining a physiplogy he never even dreamt of before.

Andy just agreed with Wok but his argument isn't even valid when it is blatantly contradicted by the

Cal's argument that it would produce Low-Mid or Mid regen makes even less sense as he argues against the spaghettification saying GG gets torn apart after hitting the black hole when he is clearly getting torn apart before he reaches it. At the very least, he would get High-Mid as his entire body is clearly broken into tiny parts at the very least. If you interpret the white stuff under the black hole as GG after he gets sent through the hole, then its Low/Mid-High as it is clearly a vapor/small particle of some kind (this isn't the case as he isn't the white stuff). If we accept it as an actual black hole, then High regen.

The only thing said so far that is true is Andy's statement of it not fitting Low-Godly as that would require the erasure of GG which isn't the case in any interpretation of the feat.

 

[The_real_cal_howard]

Bro I am literally the reason people thought of the upgrade. I'm not against a regen boost lol. My request was going from what was shown, and what was shown was him getting peeled/unraveled.

 

[ProfessorKukui4Life]

Considering the fact that an unresponsive Alien X was getting the crap beaten out of it from multiple punches Starbeard unleashed and neither it, Bellicus or Serena were remotely even phased by it, I hardly see how Ben could have thought Alien X was being hit with Lethal attacks.

And just because you go all out, doesn't neccessarily mean you are trying to kill someone y'know. Ben was only trying to win to save his universe, not eliminate the entire Celestialsapien coucil.

And adding to the trial point, even if Starbeard was lethally destroyed by the black hole, how do we know that he came back from his own doing instead of being saved by Alien X or another Celestialsapien?

 

[MrLuk2000]

Starbeard?

 

[Andytrenom]

Actually, would not being meant as a lethal attack really disqualify regen? Being reduced to that level may simply not have been fatal to GG

 

[Firestorm808]

From the look of the scans, it appears to match High-Mid or High.

High-Mid: The ability to regenerate from being blown / cut to pieces, or from a small piece of your body, such as your severed head, a single organ, or a finger.

High: The ability to regenerate from scattered or lone molecules, atoms, particles, or even pure energy.

 

[Antvasima]

I agree that it seems like High-Mid or High Regenerationn from your scans.

 

[Greenshifter]

Considering the fact that an unresponsive Alien X was getting the crap beaten out of it from multiple punches Starbeard unleashed and neither it, Bellicus or Serena were remotely even phased by it, I hardly see how Ben could have thought Alien X was being hit with Lethal attacks.

And just because you go all out, doesn't neccessarily mean you are trying to kill someone y'know. Ben was only trying to win to save his universe, not eliminate the entire Celestialsapien coucil.

And adding to the trial point, even if Starbeard was lethally destroyed by the black hole, how do we know that he came back from his own doing instead of being saved by Alien X or another Celestialsapien?

Well if Bellicus and Serena didn't let him do anything for all of eternity then he would end up dead probably. This could also be fear that he and the universe would be erased if he lost the trial (his lawyer didn't tell him the punishment on purpose) and maybe the Omnitrix as well which would probably/maybe kill Bellicus and Serena as well.

Or Ben just went all out regardless if the other guy would end up dead or not, doesn't disprove regen tho.

Wouldn't being able to regenerate other people + still being conscious when reduced to energy because of a pocket dimension be better than just regenerating yourself? Also Occam's Razor I guess.

 

[Antvasima]

@All staff members

So what do you think that we should do here?

 

[MrLuk2000]

I'm on board with Mid-High or High

 

[AlienXYEAH!]

I THINK EITHER HIGH OR GODLY BECAUSE GALACTIC GLADIATOR SURVIVED ALIEN X'S BLACK HOLE