Caulifla and Pride Troopers' problem.

[Lgamer099_99]

Caulifla at the beginning of ToP is ranked 3-A and Massively FTL+ for being probably stronger than Cabba.

But there are a lot of problems with Caulifla being 3-A and Massively FTL+ at the beginning of ToP.

Base Caulifla seems to be slower than Kettol, also Kettol was capable of damaging her. Not only Kettol, but even Zoiray was capable of damaging and overpowering Base Caulifla.Later Caulifla needed to be SSJ and Kale's help to counter the combined beam of the four Pride Troopers (Kettol, Zoiray, Cocotte and Casserale)

Another proof is that Caulifla became SSJ against Napapa , Napapa is the same guy who had some problems against Basil.

Yes, later Caulifla improved a lot, but in this topic I'm talking about Caulifla at the beginning of the tournament.

So I see four possibles ways:

1. Goku and Vegeta were suppressed during the tournament of U7 and U6, so Caulifla and Cabba at the beginning of ToP were not 3-A.

2. Goku and Vegeta's normal states (base form, SSJ...) were retconned (I know you are thinking "here we go again")

3. Napapa, Basil and the Pride Troopers upgrading to 3-A, but it sounds strange to me because Bu was stronger than Basil and Android 18 capable of fightning Pride Troopers.

4. PIS, but there are too many proofs to say it is PIS I think.

 

[Akreious]

Didn't Buu explicitly power up with his training? And Android 18, yeah I honestly don't know why she's so low. She's consistently been at least somewhere near Android 17's level.

 

[Lgamer099_99]

Didn't Buu explicitly power up with his training? And Android 18, yeah I honestly don't know why she's so low. She's consistently been at least somewhere near Android 17's level.

Buu trained after the tournament of exhibition, Android 18 can't be on the same level of his brother, She fought with Krilin against Shosa.

 

[Omegas03]

Idk. ToP 18, U6 Saiyans, Frost and the rest of ToP tier 4s in general are such a mess to scale. Maybe DBS Goku and Vegeta could get a Varies from 4-B to 3-A in their Base to SSJ3 forms?

Or just bump all ToP tier 4s who fought at least once with 17, Goku or Vegeta to 3-A and be done with it. Lol

 

[LordTracer]

When Vegeta said Cabba was equally matched with him, it was an inner monologue and not just to hype Cabba up or something, so the U6 Saiyans definitely should still be 3-A.

And ToP 18 and Roshi are arguably 3-A anyways, so like...

 

[Omegas03]

The problem comes down to Beginning of ToP Caulifla showings against weaker foes, and BoToP Caulifla is still stronger than Cabba or Frost.

But Goku indisputably became 3-A post BoG. He got some feats supporting it like RoF, when Copy Vegeta in BASE beat up the crap of SSJ3 Gotenks, or Base Goku fighting on par with Beerus who was disguised as Monaka. Plus the fact he could damage Base Frieza just before the ToP.

Maybe some ToP characters could be bumped to 3-A but I dunno. iirc 18 showings are more consistent on 3-A than High 4-C, this could be applied to Napapa and some Pride Troopers. Why are they Tier 4?

 

[LordTracer]

I wouldn't mind 18 and the Pride Troopers becoming 3-A, there isn't much that would contradict it apart from 18's fight with Shosa, but then again Shosa only landed like... one hit on 18? And iirc it was while she wasn't on guard.

Napapa is Tier 4 for fighting Basil, and the Pride Troopers are Tier 4 for one of them fighting Shosa and several other fighting Android 18. However, several of the Pride Troopers have 3-A feats on their profiles as well, like the group briefly matching SSJ Kale and (fatigued) SSJ Caulifla's combined blast, plus Tupper and Zoiray damaging or in some cases overwhelming base Goku.

Also nearly every Tier 4 Pride Trooper's durability justification is taking attacks from SSJ Kale, or in Zoiray's case, base Goku.

 

[Lgamer099_99]

When Vegeta said Cabba was equally matched with him, it was an inner monologue and not just to hype Cabba up or something, so the U6 Saiyans definitely should still be 3-A.

And ToP 18 and Roshi are arguably 3-A anyways, so like...

Goku absorbed the power of Super Saiyan God in his Super Saiyan form and later with Whis' training he became a God-Like Saiyan (Whis said to Oracle Fish that Goku and Vegeta must not use Super Saiyan form during training, or they will never become stronger). http://pm1.narvii.com/6904/940ce2e3a3b878b0e5efa3ab205524f89b8c8066r1-854-480v2_uhq.jpg

Now, It is officially said that when a God-Like Saiyan change into Super Saiyan he became Super Saiyan Blue.

http://www.shonengamez.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/04/kjkYQkH.png

That makes sense with Whis saying to not use Super Saiyan form while training. So Goku's SSJ after the fight with Beerus was Super Saiyan God Level, later Goku became Super Saiyan God Level in his base form and became a God-Like Saiyan. The problem is that when Goku became a God-Like Saiyan when he changed into Super Saiyan form he became Super Saiyan Blue, so when Goku uses his Yellow Super Saiyan form he is likely suppressed, or am I wrong?

 

[LordTracer]

That second scan you posted applies only to the Resurrection F movie, which was retconned by the Golden Freeza arc and doesn't apply to Super. And the whole "God-Like Saiyan" concept is contradicted by the fact that Goku can stack Super Saiyan God on top of his SSG-level base form. So no, Goku and Vegeta aren't suppressed whenever they use SSJ 1 - 3.

 

[Lgamer099_99]

That second scan you posted applies only to the Resurrection F movie, which was retconned by the Golden Freeza arc and doesn't apply to Super. And the whole "God-Like Saiyan" concept is contradicted by the fact that Goku can stack Super Saiyan God on top of his SSG-level base form. So no, Goku and Vegeta aren't suppressed whenever they use SSJ 1 - 3.

Super Saiyan God was re-introduced only in the ToP where we saw Caulifla and the other Saiyan of universe 6 having problems with Tier 4 characters. If you see Copy Vegeta vs Goku they first used their base form and later Super Saiyan God Super Saiyan form, that reminds the scan of Fukkatsu no F Movie. Even the explanation of Super Saiyan Blue in the anime:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GcpqYxQxL84 This is the Super Saiyan form of a Saiyan who has the powers of a Super Saiyan God.

Also, Lavenda could fight well against Gohan even before he got poisoned. https://youtu.be/dAT1WYGmRN0

And Basil who is weaker than Bu (before his training) is comparable to Lavenda.

 

[LordTracer]

You mean characters who only have one fight with a Tier 4 and several with Tier 3s? And I don't see your point of SSG only being re-introduced in the ToP. Goku and Copy-Vegeta instantly going Blue doesn't mean they're "God-Like Saiyans," Vegeta would have faded away if Goku didn't beat Copy-Vegeta quickly enough so why would he waste time going from base to SSJ to SSJ2 to SSG and then SSB? You still can't use the scan as evidence since the movie isn't canon.

Yes, Blue is Super Saiyan stacked on top of Super Saiyan God. Hence the name; Super Saiyan God Super Saiyan. Not any time Goku goes SSJ with God Ki.

And Gohan was also shown to be on par with U6 Saga Piccolo, who was handling Final Form Frost, which is definitely 3-A, so...

Goku and Vegeta aren't always suppressed when they use SSJ - SSJ3, there's nothing in the series that supports that idea.

 

[Lgamer099_99]

You mean characters who only have one fight with a Tier 4 and several with Tier 3s? And I don't see your point of SSG only being re-introduced in the ToP. Goku and Copy-Vegeta instantly going Blue doesn't mean they're "God-Like Saiyans," Vegeta would have faded away if Goku didn't beat Copy-Vegeta quickly enough so why would he waste time going from base to SSJ to SSJ2 to SSG and then SSB? You still can't use the scan as evidence since the movie isn't canon.

Yes, Blue is Super Saiyan stacked on top of Super Saiyan God. Hence the name; Super Saiyan God Super Saiyan. Not any time Goku goes SSJ with God Ki.

And Gohan was also shown to be on par with U6 Saga Piccolo, who was handling Final Form Frost, which is definitely 3-A, so...

Goku and Vegeta aren't always suppressed when they use SSJ - SSJ3, there's nothing in the series that supports that idea.

If Lavenda could fight with Gohan even before the poison It means that Gohan can't be much stronger and faster than him. Gohan can fight with Piccolo? Well, it means that Piccolo and Frost were not 3-A and this support the fact that Goku was suppressed during the tournament of U6 & U7. Another proof about God-Like Saiyan in the anime? See when Goku Black in his base form fought against SSB Vegeta, if it was just his normal base form his Super Saiyan Rosè form would have made him thousands and thousands of times more powerful, something that didn't happen. In fact a megazine said that Black's SSJ Rosè Is his Super Saiyan Form, that's true because when a God-Like Saiyan change into Super Saiyan he became Super Saiyan God Super Saiyan or in this case Super Saiyan Rosè. https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CyQdrBsXEAAExp7?format=jpg&name=medium

 

[LordTracer]

Except Piccolo and Frost are 3-A. Frost is clearly 3-A in every single form except his first form. Third Form Frost was actually causing damage to base Goku and even flew straight through his Kamehameha at one point, eventually forcing Goku into SSJ. That shows Goku wasn't suppressed against Frost. This is later supported by Frost actually making Hit get serious for a moment, something a Tier 4 would be incapable of doing. And no, it's not a fact Goku was suppressed during the U6 tournament, the only times you can argue him being suppressed is with Botamo and First Form Frost. So yeah, Frost even before the ToP is 3-A, and Gohan after his training with Piccolo scales to that. Gohan even fought Goku equally in episode 75, and it is heavily implied that once Goku went SSJ, he wasn't holding back. So again, Gohan scales to 3-A. Lavender fighting him is clearly just an outlier. And Lavender didn't even fight him that much, they swapped hands for like two seconds before he poisoned Gohan.

It was also said Rosé is Black's version of Super Saiyan Blue, and I'm pretty sure that was said directly in the anime so... that magazine contradicts the actual anime. And I'm pretty sure magazines aren't used for DBS here anyways. Also your own point contradicts itself. If you think Rosé is just Black's normal SSJ, then no, he wouldn't have gotten thousands of times stronger than his base since SSJ is just a 50x multiplier. You're contradicting yourself.

So once again, this concept of God-Like Saiyans is not supported in the anime and Goku and Vegeta are not always suppressed whenever they aren't using God or Blue. Hell, Goku has even started fights with God-Blue level opponents in base or SSJ forms (cough cough LSSJ Kale and Ikari Broly).

 

[Lgamer099_99]

Except Piccolo and Frost are 3-A. Frost is clearly 3-A in every single form except his first form. Third Form Frost was actually causing damage to base Goku and even flew straight through his Kamehameha at one point, eventually forcing Goku into SSJ. That shows Goku wasn't suppressed against Frost. This is later supported by Frost actually making Hit get serious for a moment, something a Tier 4 would be incapable of doing. And no, it's not a fact Goku was suppressed during the U6 tournament, the only times you can argue him being suppressed is with Botamo and First Form Frost. So yeah, Frost even before the ToP is 3-A, and Gohan after his training with Piccolo scales to that. Gohan even fought Goku equally in episode 75, and it is heavily implied that once Goku went SSJ, he wasn't holding back. So again, Gohan scales to 3-A. Lavender fighting him is clearly just an outlier. And Lavender didn't even fight him that much, they swapped hands for like two seconds before he poisoned Gohan.

It was also said Rosé is Black's version of Super Saiyan Blue, and I'm pretty sure that was said directly in the anime so... that magazine contradicts the actual anime. And I'm pretty sure magazines aren't used for DBS here anyways. Also your own point contradicts itself. If you think Rosé is just Black's normal SSJ, then no, he wouldn't have gotten thousands of times stronger than his base since SSJ is just a 50x multiplier. You're contradicting yourself.

So once again, this concept of God-Like Saiyans is not supported in the anime and Goku and Vegeta are not always suppressed whenever they aren't using God or Blue. Hell, Goku has even started fights with God-Blue level opponents in base or SSJ forms (cough cough LSSJ Kale and Ikari Broly).

1. When I say that Goku suppressed himself I mean he didn't use his Super Saiyan God's power as Ultimate Gohan can use or not his 100% in his base form. Hope you get what I mean. 2. You didn't understand what I said. SSJ Rosè Is for sure Black's version of SSB (in the anime it isn't said but it's pretty clear). What I mean Is that when a God-Like Saiyan change into Yellow Super Saiyan he automatically become Blue or Rosè in the case of Goku Black. Goku Black was a God-Like Saiyan against SSB Vegeta and I'm sure about this, because when he became Rosè he became for sure stronger but not thousands of times, he got the Super Saiyan boost because he was a God-Like Saiyan probably (He was on the same level of SSB Vegeta and later with Super Saiyan Rosè overpowered him, but the gap wasn't of thousands of times).

 

[LordTracer]

There's no evidence that he wasn't using his God Ki, and there's no reason to assume he wasn't. Not sure why you're bringing up Mystic Gohan, that's not even the fight I was referring to. I'm referring to the fight in Episode 75 where Gohan, as the Great Saiyaman, fought evenly with Goku even after Goku was implied to have stopped holding back.

Rosé Black one-shot Vegeta Blue, so you don't know what the gap between them is at all. That does not justify your idea of the God-Like Saiyan concept, especially when we know for a fact that Super Saiyan God can be stacked on top of these characters' God Ki base forms.

There's just no evidence supporting that Goku and Vegeta never use their full power/God Ki when they go SSJ1-SSJ3, and like I mentioned before, Goku has used SSJ1-SSJ3 against SSG-SSGSS level opponents like Toppo, LSSJ (and LSSJ2) Kale, Ikari Broly and even Jire of all people.

 

[Lgamer099_99]

There's no evidence that he wasn't using his God Ki, and there's no reason to assume he wasn't. Not sure why you're bringing up Mystic Gohan, that's not even the fight I was referring to. I'm referring to the fight in Episode 75 where Gohan, as the Great Saiyaman, fought evenly with Goku even after Goku was implied to have stopped holding back.

Rosé Black one-shot Vegeta Blue, so you don't know what the gap between them is at all. That does not justify your idea of the God-Like Saiyan concept, especially when we know for a fact that Super Saiyan God can be stacked on top of these characters' God Ki base forms.

There's just no evidence supporting that Goku and Vegeta never use their full power/God Ki when they go SSJ1-SSJ3, and like I mentioned before, Goku has used SSJ1-SSJ3 against SSG-SSGSS level opponents like Toppo, LSSJ (and LSSJ2) Kale, Ikari Broly and even Jire of all people.

There is a misunderstanding. I bringing up Mystic Gohan to explain better what I meant with suppressed for Goku and Vegeta. I think that Goku and Vegeta can use or not God Ki when they want, and these are the proofs they didn't use it against Cabba and other characters: 1. Piccolo being SSG Level during Champa Arc with just training with Gohan for a short period doesn't make any sense, and Frost was tired against him.

2. Lavender can keep up with Base Gohan even before the poison, Lavender is on the same level of Basil who lost against Bu.

3. Goku said to Piccolo that Gohan was out of practice during the tournament of exhibition, If Gohan was 3-A (so stronger than ever) as you say Goku would never have said so. https://youtu.be/x-Qj7NkJ8RQ See 1:00

4. Caulifla had troubles against Tier 4 Characters, such as Napapa Who had troubles against Basil (Who Is weaker than Bu). Pride Troopers cannot be 3-A because they fought Android 18 and Android 18 being Super Saiyan God Level without do anything just doesn't make any sense. That's all I think.

 

[LordTracer]

1) Not making sense isn't an argument. Anyone being God tier without training with a God is nonsensical, but it happens. So that's not an argument. Featwise, Piccolo and Frost are both 3-A.

2) Lavender poisoned Gohan almost immediately. He literally only matched Gohan for like two seconds, meanwhile Gohan is consistently shown to be 3-A in DBS. Lavender is simply an outlier, as I already went over.

3) That is false, as an "out-of-practice" Gohan in RoF was still the strongest he had ever been as he one-shot Tagoma, who was comparable to Buu Arc Mystic Gohan. And Gohan was still able to briefly contend with Piccolo, who I've already gone over is easily 3-A and there is literally nothing that contradicts that.

4) Not making sense still isn't a reason. By that logic, I could say Hit being 3-A doesn't make sense as he's just an assassin. Or Dyspo being 3-A doesn't make sense because he was never trained by a God. 18 bodied Ribrianne, who consistently swapped hands with ToP Goku AND Vegeta (ToP Vegeta being stronger than ToP Goku) and she effortlessly defeated the Pride Trooper Tupper, who was overpowering base Goku. The Pride Troopers ca be 3―A, and Caulifla is undeniably 3-A, she is consistently portrayed as 3-A throughout the tournament and only got a power boost after the Pride Trooper scuffle where she arguably got a Zenkai.

 

[Lgamer099_99]

1) Not making sense isn't an argument. Anyone being God tier without training with a God is nonsensical, but it happens. So that's not an argument. Featwise, Piccolo and Frost are both 3-A.

2) Lavender poisoned Gohan almost immediately. He literally only matched Gohan for like two seconds, meanwhile Gohan is consistently shown to be 3-A in DBS. Lavender is simply an outlier, as I already went over.

3) That is false, as an "out-of-practice" Gohan in RoF was still the strongest he had ever been as he one-shot Tagoma, who was comparable to Buu Arc Mystic Gohan. And Gohan was still able to briefly contend with Piccolo, who I've already gone over is easily 3-A and there is literally nothing that contradicts that.

4) Not making sense still isn't a reason. By that logic, I could say Hit being 3-A doesn't make sense as he's just an assassin. Or Dyspo being 3-A doesn't make sense because he was never trained by a God. 18 bodied Ribrianne, who consistently swapped hands with ToP Goku AND Vegeta (ToP Vegeta being stronger than ToP Goku) and she effortlessly defeated the Pride Trooper Tupper, who was overpowering base Goku. The Pride Troopers ca be 3―A, and Caulifla is undeniably 3-A, she is consistently portrayed as 3-A throughout the tournament and only got a power boost after the Pride Trooper scuffle where she arguably got a Zenkai.

1. I Just disagree.

2. So... explain me why Goku and Vegeta became SSJ against Universe 9 and Trio de Danger how exactly Goku became SSJ against Great Saiyaman Gohan. Why Gohan scales and Trio de Danger not? Can't Goku have suppressed himself and not using God Ki in both fights? Don't get me wrong, Gohan later became for sure 3-A.

3. Now I'm not english and in my language It is said that Tagoma might be as strong as Gohan in his best in that moment, not in general. Also, Krilin was confident of having Bu at his side more than having Gohan and even after he sensed First Form Frieza's power. https://youtu.be/TShCfa352i4

3:45

4. Characters from other universes makes sense to be 3-A, Android 18 without do any form of training and without any statament about her being stronger than before doesn't make sense for her being 3-A.

 

[LordTracer]

2) Because Gohan has consistent reason to scale? He consistently scales around Piccolo, who has zero anti-feats after the U6 Saga to contradict his scaling to Frost, and Gohan himself squared up with Goku who implied pretty clearly that he wasn't holding back.

3) At least in the sub I watched, Gohan just said Tagoma was relative to him at his best. Not his best at that moment, just his best in general.

4) Still, not making sense is not an argument. Just being from another universe doesn't give them legitimate reason to be God tier, but they are. And 18 has the feats and scaling to be there. Several things in this show don't make sense, doesn't mean you just discount them.

 

[Lgamer099_99]

2) Because Gohan has consistent reason to scale? He consistently scales around Piccolo, who has zero anti-feats after the U6 Saga to contradict his scaling to Frost, and Gohan himself squared up with Goku who implied pretty clearly that he wasn't holding back.

3) At least in the sub I watched, Gohan just said Tagoma was relative to him at his best. Not his best at that moment, just his best in general.

4) Still, not making sense is not an argument. Just being from another universe doesn't give them legitimate reason to be God tier, but they are. And 18 has the feats and scaling to be there. Several things in this show don't make sense, doesn't mean you just discount them.

2. Goku probably used his full power with normal ki and not with god ki/Super Saiyan God's power.

3. I see. I've found where Gohan said that Tagoma was not inferior to him. https://youtu.be/4S3uXpIdykE

4. There aren't statament of her being stronger and she didn't train, so the Characters she fought are not Universal. If you think she can be Universal without any solid proofs sorry I just disagree.

 

[LordTracer]

2) That's an assumption on your part, one that is honestly unfounded since in a previous saga Gohan was shown to be equal to Piccolo in his base, and SSJ Gohan was even able to damage SSJ Goku. Saying Gohan doesn't scale at that point is honestly just ignoring the evidence presented by the series itself and his scaling.

4) I've literally listed the feats that put her there. There not being any statements is irrelevant when she actually has the feats and scaling. That's solid proof. The only thing there isn't solid proof for is the idea of her not scaling to Goku. And she literally did train, she's been shown sparring with Krillin more than once. And before you say that shouldn't allow her to reach God tier, 17 reached God tier by beating up poachers that should be 9-C at best.

 

[Zamasu_Chan]

I agree with opinion 1.

 

[AwkguyDB]

yeah I agree with Option 1

Goku and Vegeta were not giving their all until their fights with Jiren and Toppo.

 

[LordTracer]

Option one refers to the Universe 6 tournament, not the ToP. And if Vegeta was suppressed against Cabba, he wouldn't have said they were equally matched in an inner monologue.

 

[Zamasu_Chan]

Outlier.

 

[LordTracer]

Outlier even though he's not that far behind Caulifla, who was almost exclusively matching Goku throughout the ToP... and a fatigued SSJ2 Cabba forced Freeza to transform to withstand his Galick Cannon... also what anti-feats does Cabba have that would make it an outlier?

 

[Zamasu_Chan]

Cabba is weaker than Caulifla, who got beat by tier 4 pride Troopers and was almost eliminated by someone, as a super saiyan, who's weaker than Majin Buu.

 

[Zamasu_Chan]

Scaling someone to base Goku or Vegeta is almost never a foot idea.

 

[LordTracer]

I explained earlier how those Pride Troopers can be argued to 3-A, and Caulifla doesn't scale to base Goku, she scales to SSJ2 Goku, so... Also when Vegeta explicitly says someone equals his base, and he says it as an inner monologue, it's fact. Unless you think Vegeta just doesn't know his own power for some reason.

 

[Zamasu_Chan]

Feats > statements

 

[LordTracer]

And Cabba has the feat of matching Vegeta's Galick Gun, which is what caused Vegeta to state they were equals in the first place. And Cabba has the feat of forcing Freeza into Golden, which further supports it as base Freeza should be on par with base Goku and SSJ2 Cabba would surpass that.

 

[Zamasu_Chan]

And Cabba has the feat of matching Vegeta's Galick Gun, which is what caused Vegeta to state they were equals in the first place. And Cabba has the feat of forcing Freeza into Golden, which further supports it as base Freeza should be on par with base Goku and SSJ2 Cabba would surpass that.

Still it's contradicted by a 4-B Sumo Wrestler pushing SSJ Caulifla.

Matching Goku or Vegeta's base is arbitrary because they would literally transform for everyone and their mother.

 

[LordTracer]

You do realize that would then be the outlier, right?

And? Still 3-A.

 

[Akreious]

1 4-B Thing <<< Multiple 3-A Stuff

 

[Lgamer099_99]

1 4-B Thing <<< Multiple 3-A Stuff

It isn't one 4-B thing and 3-A stuff Is all based on fighting base Goku or Vegeta. Seriously, Beerus searched the legendary Super Saiyan God and now everyone surpassed It without any kind of training or without stataments about it. Majin Bu is still threated as someone really strong, Krilin was confident of having him at his side even after he sensed First Form Frieza's ki. Also, Gohan during RoF was for sure weaker than himself during Bu Saga, see that:

https://youtu.be/wSfv_0eFNKA

And that:

https://youtu.be/KmzJSDZ8VvQ

 

[Omegas03]

@everyone in this thread

Do you think Base to SSJ3 Goku is 3-A or nah?

 

[LordTracer]

One of Cabba's 3-A feats is literally based on Freeza and Vegeta himself said Cabba was his equal but okay. Also this is literally the same as what happened with OG Super Saiyan back in Z, why is it so difficult to understand that people surpassed SSG?

 

[Lgamer099_99]

@everyone in this thread

Do you think Base to SSJ3 Goku is 3-A or nah?

It should be, but It was possibly retconned or at least Goku can chose to use God ki or not. For sure Gohan before unlocking again his Ultimate form was not 3-A, the narrator said that Gohan regained the strenght of the past and Gohan during RoF was weaker than Ultimate Gohan because Krilin was more confident of having Majin Bu and SSJ Kid Trunks did the same feat of Gohan. So if Gohan was 3-A he would have had his Ultimate form, the fact that he hasn't had It means that he was weaker than end of Buu Saga himself.

 

[Omegas03]

I still can't believe Frost or Base Cabba could stomp Napapa, Trio of Dangers and 18 all at the same time according to this wiki profiles. Maybe making them Varies from 4-B to 3-A or a 4-B, likely 3-A? Or make all the guys 3-A for all I know they have more 3-A feats lol.

 

[LordTracer]

18 has 3-A stuff and Frost should have a 4-B key for his first form.