Can Frisk and Chara fly?

[Blahblah9755]

So I was wondering if flight/pseudo flight/levitation or something like this should be added to Frisk and/or Chara's abilities, since in the battles against Sans and Papyrus they use gravity to restrict Frisk to only jumping.

 

[Squid_peanut]

while there isn't any given evidence for or against I'm personally leaning towards yes as they happen into situations where flight is necessary and are grounded which would imply flight as well

 

[Blahblah9755]

So do you think I should ask them to add limited flight to their abilities once they finish the current AP edits?

 

[Squid_peanut]

possibly, but we should here what others have to say on this first before a change is made

 

[WarriorWare]

"They can't fly." - Dr. Alphys

 

[Blahblah9755]

"They can't fly." - Dr. Alphys

Was that actually stated, did I just miss it?

 

[Saikou_The_Lewd_King]

It was, Sans at the end of Pacifisr Route says that Frisk could just fly to see everyone in the underground, before Alphys saying they can't fly, although to be fair, I don't know if Alphys actually saw Frisk fight when they could have used flight, however, given Alphys' knowledge of Determination, it would be unlikely the she didn't know.

 

[Undylan]

"They can't fly." - Dr. Alphys

"NOT WITHOUT THAT ATTITUDE" - Undyne.

 

[ThePerpetual]

Maybe that's only when Frisk has determination, that they can fly?

 

[Azathoth_the_Abyssal_Idiot]

I feel like "levitation" may be more accurate, as Frisk did use a jetpack to reach the "human soul substitute", after all.

 

[Salavtore]

With the bird that carries you over to the other side of a path, yes.

Other than that, levitation feels right in some cases. Other than that, imagine the box your soul resides in as a land scape.

 

[Angry_Dummy]

...Why is this listed under Whiscash and Whispy Woods' pages?

 

[Squid_peanut]

papyrus does acknowledge that the red heart is floating when you check his shoulders

 

[WarriorWare]

Plot twist: Undertale is actually a 2D platformer where everyone can fly.

 

[ThePerpetual]

@Dummy Fixed.

 

[Dexteradon12]

They can't fly. Their SOUL can, however, because that's what battles are in undertale, monsters attacking your soul directly.

 

[Salavtore]

no it can't.

 

[Kirbyfan22222]

I don't know because I never played the game.

 

[Little_Jackie_Papercut]

I'd like to take a moment to note I'm confused about both of them being listed as Relativistic+ speed on the basis of being able to dodge rays of sunlight and lightning bolts; these things are specifically noted within the game to be "bullets", simply magical objects that represent sunlight/lightning in some abstract way. It's like saying if a LARPer threw something at me while shouting "Lightning Bolt!" and I dodged it, that would make me Relativistic+ in the real world.

That said, the main issue is that you can't actually see Frisk's body during battles, nor the surroundings. Yet, I think what you can see—the enemy—is enough to prove that moving "up" isn't flight. Specifically, check the Mettaton EX battle; while under the yellow heart effect, you can shoot bullets upward, toward Mettaton. Since we know from the scene preceding this, and from Mettaton's in-battle animation, that Mettaton is standing in front of you, as opposed to hovering over you, "up" must be "forward". (The quiz show also proves this the other way around, as Mettaton is clearly standing in front of you and if he zaps you, the beam comes down the screen.) Papyrus uses his gravity manipulation to push you away from himself, and "jumping" means you push toward him.

 

[Saikou_The_Lewd_King]

They aren't just magical bullets tho, Undyne throws magic spears at you, Papyrus throws actual bones etc.

That isn't always the case tho, as for examples we have the Annoying Dog just walking around like down is down in Papyrus' fight.

 

[Azathoth_the_Abyssal_Idiot]

I'd like to take a moment to note I'm confused about both of them being listed as Relativistic+ speed on the basis of being able to dodge rays of sunlight and lightning bolts; these things are specifically noted within the game to be "bullets", simply magical objects that represent sunlight/lightning in some abstract way. It's like saying if a LARPer threw something at me while shouting "Lightning Bolt!" and I dodged it, that would make me Relativistic+ in the real world.

They're referred to as "bullets" because the game specifically pays homage to the "bullet hell" genre.

Also, the difference between a LARPer and a monster in Undertale is that monsters in Undertale are ACTUALLY magic and can summon spears out of thin air or create miniature suns.

Also, this has probably been pointed out a million times before, but Napstablook, who is complete garbage tier, has a rel+ feat on his own without any scaling. Literally every enemy after the ruins (except maybe Jerry) scales to Napstablook.

 

[Little_Jackie_Papercut]

They aren't just magical bullets tho, Undyne throws magic spears at you, Papyrus throws actual bones etc.
That isn't always the case tho, as for examples we have the Annoying Dog just walking around like down is down in Papyrus' fight.

Undyne's spears are bullets. They are composed of the exact same magic as everything else.

The "sun rays" and "lightning bolts" don't even look OR MOVE like real sun rays and lightning bolts. They look and move like danmaku bullets.

And the Annoying Dog breaks physics for funsies.

 

[Azathoth_the_Abyssal_Idiot]

And the Annoying Dog breaks physics for funsies.

Ignoring all dog-based enemies, don't other things such as Reaperbird, Froggit, Temmie, Tsunderplane (with one of its attacks), Knight Knight, and Migosp also fight like down is...well, down?

 

[Little_Jackie_Papercut]

And the Annoying Dog breaks physics for funsies.

Ignoring all dog-based enemies, don't other things such as Reaperbird, Froggit, Temmie, Tsunderplane (with one of its attacks), Knight Knight, and Migosp also fight like down is...well, down?

Only if you treat the bullets as entities instead of bullets, a premise I still haven't accepted. (Temmie also breaks it, because there's no indication she can fly, yet she extends her leg "down" toward you.)

Further, not everything that appears to be affected by gravity moves "down". Pyrope's bombs, for instance.

 

[Azathoth_the_Abyssal_Idiot]

Only if you treat the bullets as entities instead of bullets, a premise I still haven't accepted.

Migosp itself dances on the bottom of the box, though. Temmie walks along it, and Reaperbird's "Everyman" paces slowly along the bottom.

 

[Little_Jackie_Papercut]

Only if you treat the bullets as entities instead of bullets, a premise I still haven't accepted.

Migosp itself dances on the bottom of the box, though. Temmie walks along it, and Reaperbird's "Everyman" paces slowly along the bottom.

A book in the librarby refers to magic as a form of self-expression. It's not Migosp dancing in the box—partly because it doesn't look like Migosp, and partly because Migosp is still right in front of you, unless you're suggesting Migosp can be in two places at once—it's a bullet that represents Migosp. The same can be said of Temmie, and as I noted in an edit to my previous post, Temmie also breaks it when her sprite reaches down over the wall of the box. Temmies are never observed flying, including the stretchy-leg bullet you're talking about, so she's presumably standing in front of you, stretching her leg out toward you.

"Everyman" isn't even a thing. Like, it's not Reaperbird. It's not any other monster. It's just another bullet. It's weird because everything down there is weird and incomprehensible and vaguely horrific.

 

[Azathoth_the_Abyssal_Idiot]

A book in the librarby refers to magic as a form of self-expression. It's not Migosp dancing in the box—partly because it doesn't look like Migosp, and partly because Migosp is still right in front of you, unless you're suggesting Migosp can be in two places at once—it's a bullet that represents Migosp. The same can be said of Temmie, and as I noted in an edit to my previous post, Temmie also breaks it when her sprite reaches down over the wall of the box. Temmies are never observed flying, including the stretchy-leg bullet you're talking about, so she's presumably standing in front of you, stretching her leg out toward you.

"Everyman" isn't even a thing. Like, it's not Reaperbird. It's not any other monster. It's just another bullet. It's weird because everything down there is weird and incomprehensible and vaguely horrific.

Magic is indeed a form of self expression, but this does not stop it from being an actual physical phenomenon. Undyne's spears clearly manifest on a physical level, and Papyrus can be seen with a box of attacks he used against you. Yes, it's magic, but that's because monsters themselves are made almost entirely of magic. Even robots are partially magic.

I don't know where you got the idea that "Everyman" isn't a thing. Yes, it's an attack, but it's an attack created by Reaperbird which physically manifests in the real world and attacks you.

 

[Little_Jackie_Papercut]

Magic is indeed a form of self expression, but this does not stop it from being an actual physical phenomenon. Undyne's spears clearly manifest on a physical level, and Papyrus can be seen with a box of attacks he used against you. Yes, it's magic, but that's because monsters themselves are made almost entirely of magic. Even robots are partially magic.

I don't know where you got the idea that "Everyman" isn't a thing. Yes, it's an attack, but it's an attack created by Reaperbird which physically manifests in the real world and attacks you.

A phenomenon is not a person, though. The bullet isn't Migosp, because Migosp is not a bullet. The bullet is a mass of magic that abstractly represents Migosp, and the fact that Migosp itself is a mass of magic doesn't change that. You might as well say that my computer is a person, because both my computer and I are made of matter.

Same thing with Everyman. Just because it manifests in the real world doesn't make it any more of a being than Undyne's spears. It looks and moves the way it does because it's an expression of Reaperbird's tormented, fragmented psyche.

 

[Azathoth_the_Abyssal_Idiot]

A phenomenon is not a person, though. The bullet isn't Migosp, because Migosp is not a bullet. The bullet is a mass of magic that abstractly represents Migosp, and the fact that Migosp itself is a mass of magic doesn't change that. You might as well say that my computer is a person, because both my computer and I are made of matter.

Same thing with Everyman. Just because it manifests in the real world doesn't make it any more of a being than Undyne's spears. It looks and moves the way it does because it's an expression of Reaperbird's tormented, fragmented psyche.

I never said they were people? I said they were physical phenomena, which is why it matters that a representation of Migosp, a representation of Temmie, and Reaperbird's Everyman treat down as down.

 

[Little_Jackie_Papercut]

I never said they were people? I said they were physical phenomena, which is why it matters that a representation of Migosp, a representation of Temmie, and Reaperbird's Everyman treat down as down.

But it's not particularly meaningful that they do so, because a bullet doesn't have to follow any clear physical laws that I know of. They manifest in a certain way because of a certain idea or purpose, not because it's more physically ideal.

Leaving that aside, though, realize: All these examples would even be able to prove if accepted is that it's inconsistent, unless you have some reason I should doubt the Mettaton examples.

 

[Azathoth_the_Abyssal_Idiot]

But it's not particularly meaningful that they do so, because a bullet doesn't have to follow any clear physical laws that I know of. They manifest in a certain way because of a certain idea or purpose, not because it's more physically ideal.

Leaving that aside, though, realize: All these examples would even be able to prove if accepted is that it's inconsistent, unless you have some reason I should doubt the Mettaton examples.

I never said this was meant to prove all fights use down as down, either. It shows that it differs from fight to fight, and that they don't all function the same. This means down CAN be down, not that it's ALWAYS down.

 

[Little_Jackie_Papercut]

I never said this was meant to prove all fights use down as down, either. It shows that it differs from fight to fight, and that they don't all function the same. This means down CAN be down, not that it's ALWAYS down.

I just felt that needed to be pointed out. If the rules are inconsistent, then it's equally likely that your examples are not, in fact, manifesting in the real world. Even though Papyrus and Undyne do so with their attacks, Everyman, Migosp, and the representation of Temmie seen in that one attack are never seen outside of battle. They could simply be shapes on the ground, which damage Frisk when stepped on. I still don't see a meaningful reason to believe that the bullets are treating the bottom of the frame as "down", instead of simply being weightless.

 

[Azathoth_the_Abyssal_Idiot]

I just felt that needed to be pointed out. If the rules are inconsistent, then it's equally likely that your examples are not, in fact, manifesting in the real world. Even though Papyrus and Undyne do so with their attacks, Everyman, Migosp, and the representation of Temmie seen in that one attack are never seen outside of battle. They could simply be shapes on the ground, which damage Frisk when stepped on. I still don't see a meaningful reason to believe that the bullets are treating the bottom of the frame as "down", instead of simply being weightless.

Because this assumes that almost everything within the context of the universe is 2-D, which is also just an assumption. All we know is we see Papyrus' bones and Undyne's spears as physical, 3-D objects, so I see more evidence for most attacks being actual things than them just being shapes on the ground for no real reason.