Calvin and Hobbles: "Imagination" profile wiping

[ZacharyGrossman273]

Alice's thing is especially weird because at the end of the game she gained all the powers of her imagination. Literally.

 

[I'm_Blue_daba_dee_daba_die]

@Agnaa.

Quentin Beck convinced people by just natural persuasion and propaganda, his staged attacks are by making "elementals" (which in reality was just a bunch of tech held up by holograms and drones), which attacked various cities and made it look like monsters were destroying cities, Quentin Beck created "mysterio", a superhero persona, who in reality was a bunch of holograms and drones, just like his elementals, who defeated these elementals.

 

[InfiniteSped]

Mysterio had drones that created illusions of elemental giants and simulated their attacks on the environment to make it look legit (like sending shockwaves at a building at the same time the illusion punched it to look like it was the elemental doing it)

 

[Wokistan]

So isn't his tech still doing that stuff then? Was it all set up beforehand with explosives or whatever or is he just flying a drone around shooting stuff but making it look different?

If its the former, tier via prep. If it's the latter, tier with that drone.

 

[ElixirBlue]

There has been moments in Calvin & Hobbes where certain story elements can't be chalked up to simply being fictional, despite it coming from Calvin's mind. Like the time Calvin cloned himself.

 

[Agnaa]

Well then that all sounds legit (and therefore kinda irrelevant to this thread). The profile seems to represent that accurately.

@Wokistan His profile already seems to be set up like that. He's got a tier with the drone tech, and a tier with prep.

 

[I'm_Blue_daba_dee_daba_die]

There has been moments in Calvin & Hobbes where certain story elements can't be chalked up to simply being fictional, despite it coming from Calvin's mind. Like the time Calvin cloned himself.

Pretty sure that's still fictional, to give you more proof, some of Calvin's other inventions such as the transmogrifier and his time machine, were viewed by his parents as just fooling around

 

[I'm_Blue_daba_dee_daba_die]

So isn't his tech still doing that stuff then? Was it all set up beforehand with explosives or whatever or is he just flying a drone around shooting stuff but making it look different?
If its the former, tier via prep. If it's the latter, tier with that drone.

Mysterio is 8-C with his tech such as the drones, so no point in debating him

 

[Wokistan]

Low 2-C calvin when he's playing with tinkertoys and pretending to be god whe

Did the clones have effects on reality that were actually pervasive though? I don't remember them being like that.

 

[ElixirBlue]

Pretty sure that's still fictional, to give you more proof, some of Calvin's other inventions such as the transmogrifier and his time machine, were viewed by his parents as just fooling around

Transmogrifier 100%, but there is some you can't simply say Calvin was fooling around. Especially when it comes to Hobbies.

 

[InfiniteSped]

Zark wanted to make profiles for the fake versions of the elementals and Mysterio, the lies the guy set up. Like one of the elementals being able to destroy the whole planet, or there actually being a flying dude doing magic and fighting them.

 

[I'm_Blue_daba_dee_daba_die]

Low 2-C calvin when he's playing with tinkertoys and pretending to be god whe
Did the clones have effects on reality that were actually pervasive though? I don't remember them being like that.

Iirc best thing was he got sent to the principals office due to his clones screwing around and that time him and suzie fought due to his "clone"

 

[Wokistan]

If you wish to say that we aren't able to say this, can you post over some of the panels? Seems like that would be important, especially given the author's inconclusive answer.

Either way, other things being real wouldn't really make stupendous man or spaceman spiff real.

 

[Agnaa]

Zark wanted to make profiles for the fake versions of the elementals and Mysterio, the lies the guy set up. Like one of the elementals being able to destroy the whole planet, or there actually being a flying dude doing magic and fighting them.

Okay that should not be done at all.

Making profiles/giving tiers for lies that characters tell is beyond ridiculous.

 

[InfiniteSped]

Yeah, the movie is about Mysterio tricking everyone into believing that and Spiderman beating his drones and showing the truth.

 

[The_Impress]

Why? They have a lore, they have feats, they're not throwaway lies, I legitimately don't get the reasoning for this other than "because no"

 

[Wokistan]

They don't really have feats if none of that stuff is actually happening and it's all in verse lies...

 

[Agnaa]

Why? They have a lore, they have feats, they're not throwaway lies, I legitimately don't get the reasoning for this other than "because no"

Because I don't think we should include things that are canonically non-canon.

There's a lot of things that have lore, have feats, and so on, but which we don't include on the site. Such as fanfiction, obscure stories, etc. Having those things is not justification for them getting profiles.

 

[ZacharyGrossman273]

I forget exactly what Bill watrwrson said but the important thing was he said both perspectives counted equally

 

[ElixirBlue]

I'm currently looking for evidence. Here's one:

 

[Agnaa]

I'm currently looking for evidence. Here's one:

That doesn't seem like proof of anything to me. You can clearly see in two of the panels that other people see Hobbes as a toy, and also engage in their own imagination-play with him.

 

[ElixirBlue]

Yes, but Calvin couldn't have gotten those cookies.

 

[Agnaa]

How?

 

[Saikou_The_Lewd_King]

Y

Yeah a single gag like this that could easily be interpreted as Calvin just having eaten the cookies is definitively not enough to treat the entire setting as real.

 

[Antvasima]

I agree with Saikou and Agnaa regarding the reasons to delete these pages. We should probably close this thread.

 

[I'm_Blue_daba_dee_daba_die]

Elixir Blue is trying to find more proof, so let's wait until he comes

 

[ElixirBlue]

Physical interaction between fantasy and reality:

Large amounts of water outside the tub that realistically can't happen with any other means due to the cracks in the door would've drain the water before Calvin could fill it up and the source the water could've come from would've went straight into a drain.



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Hobbies interacting with physical objects Calvin didn't have access to. The first one with the cookies is stronger than the cake, as Susie was right there to watch Calvin if he tried to snatch the cookies while Hobbies was eating the cookies. The cake example isn't as strong, as Calvin could've been unaware he did it but he didn't have any reason to lie to himself as Calvin likes to pull a fast one on Susie.



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The Bicycle attacks. The Bicycle causes harm to Calvin that the parents are very aware of. The first strip shows tire tracks on Calvin that the dad sees, meaning there was pressure applied. The second time, they mention Calvin's head was trapped in the chain. Calvin wouldn't intentionally hurt himself to "play around".



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Hobbies pushes the car with Calvin. Now, I'm not sure how strong of supporting evidence this is. The driveway didn't look that slanted for a 6 year to push the car hard enough to make it roll down into a ditch.


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Hobbies ties up Calvin. By far, this is the strongest Fiction interacting with Reality. Calvin can't even move.



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Calvin hears sounds from reality and thinking they came from fiction. Now this is a weak one, but Calvin heard the sound from Reality and heard it as if it was a sound from Fiction.


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Knowledge from Fiction to Reality:

Hobbies knowing what Susie's cake taste is weak evidence, if Calvin was actually the one to take the piece of cake. But I believe we would have seen it, like every other time Calvin does something to annoy Susie.

Hobbies learns information from Susie's dairy. Now, this qualifies as evidence even if it's not strong. First, we have never heard in any other comic Susie has a diary. We only have learned that from Hobbies. But the reason it's not strong evidence is because Calvin could have assumed that. Also, what was in the dairy, insults about Calvin, Calvin could have assumed Susie would write that about him. But in reality, Susie could very well have written it.

The whole dairy thing could honestly go either way.


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Poison Sumac. Now this is strong evidence. Between the two, Hobbies has been part of Calvin wisdom. A lot of what Hobbies says could very well be a part of Calvin and what he knows. But there was no way Calvin knew anything about Poison Sumac. The entire story, Calvin blowing off any real research about leaves, just wanting "alien leaves" to impress the class. Hobbies somehow knew what Poison Sumac was and identified it with Calvin himself being clueless.


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Hobbies interacting with Calvi:

Now, these can't be used as evidence. When Calvin and Hobbies are by themselves, there is no evidence that anything they do to each other happened in reality (even though there is a lot of interaction throughout the comic).



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How Calvin's powers are usually presented as:

Below, this is how Calvin's power are viewed by his reality, which is why the evidence above seems like the comic is inconsistent if the evidence is approved. With Hobbies being the only one you would question, is he purely fictional or is there a bit of reality to him.


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I don't want Hobbies's profile to go away. I think he has every right to stay in VSBW.

 

[Agnaa]

• First two are obviously exaggerated jokes about kids splashing water outside of bathtubs. What's your other "this really happened" explanation for it? That Calvin has some unexplained water manip hax to make a bunch of water appear?
• Next two (cookies and cake) could have easily been done by Calvin.
• The next two (bicycle) are obviously exaggerated jokes about a kid getting hurt by learning how to ride a bicycle.
• The next one (pushing car) doesn't have any real-life evidence around it, idk what you're trying to show with it.
• The next two (getting tied up) seems pretty well implied that he tied himself up. I'm pretty damn sure that you can tie yourself up so that you can't escape, especially if you're a dumb kid who's probably not the best escape master.
• The next one (knocking on the door) is LITERALLY just hearing another person knocking on the door as his toy tiger. This is not evidence.
• The next one (diary) is an obvious joke about what a young boy thinks is in a young girl's diary.
• The next one (poison sumac) isn't showing any effect on reality.
• The next two (hobbes interacting with calvin), by your admission, isn't evidence. So why did you include it?
• The next two, I'm not sure what they're supposed to be showing.

I don't think any of these comics give C&H the right to stay on vsbw.

 

[ElixirBlue]

Wait, we discredit feats easily now just by calling them jokes?

 

[ElixirBlue]

Cool, there is a lot of verses I want to downgrade especially in anime and toons because of how much physical humor there is that were meant to be jokes.

 

[Agnaa]

If the alternative to "It's a joke" is "This character has completely unexplained water hax that defies physics and is only shown once in the entire series", then yeah, we do discredit it.

 

[ElixirBlue]

But I just showed the Water Hax twice, not once. What are you seeing?

There is actually a third I skipped over.

 

[Agnaa]

Oh, I thought they were two consecutive strips that were like part of the same thing.

Like how a lot of the other stripes you showed had characters doing something in one pic, then the aftermath in the next.

 

[ElixirBlue]

Oh, my bad. No they were from separate issues. I just put them in one category for my format.

 

[Agnaa]

Welp, if that's fine with everyone, we'll bring back all the C&H profiles and give Calvin unexplained physics-defying water manip.

I'd like to wait for other takes on this.

 

[ElixirBlue]

I'll quickly find the third water Hax. I didn't include it intaillly because it was Hobbies who did it.

 

[ElixirBlue]

(Calvin is doing something crazy out of the Fantasy)

 

[Bobsican]

Well, the water manip seems fine.

This seems to be a lot like how Barney started on the wiki, the more proof of stuff being "real" is better, just pointing that out.

 

[Saikou_The_Lewd_King]

The problem with "gag" feats

Is that it must be consistent to a degree

And I'm sorry but someone who's treated as a kid daydreaming for 90% of the story but then suddenly has a couple of strips where what kids do in water gets exagerated for the sake of a gag doesn't constitute an ability.

 

[Wokistan]

That isn't water manip, he's literally just spilling a ton of water and turning on all the faucets. Calvin can totally flood the bathroom if he just lets the water run forever.

We've rejected gag feats and sfuff before so go ahead and downgrade those animes i guess.