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Calcs Implementation

Enel is most definetly a glass cannon. He easily one shotted the likes of Zoro and Sanji, who were comparable to Luffy at the time. Since Luffy overcame Enel's durability while being far below his AP, Enel is indeed a glass cannon.
 
So? I know plenty of characters on this wiki that use there own energy/powers for attacks yet the most that their durability scales to is resistance to that element or barriers.
 
Enel is a glass canon
Here we go again...
Enel was foddering everyone on the arc and Luffy started beating the shit out of him because he's resistant to electricity. Luffy has been shown to constantly grow in power in a short amount of time, and IIRC, between stalemating Wyper and hurting Enel half a day happened.

You can even see that he can do that while he was initially unable to lift the golden ball and then some minutes later he can even move it at high speeds without falling a meter in the air.

The reason why people tends to believe that Enel is a glass cannon it's because Luffy beat him, but as I pointed above, that's half-true. Luffy grows stronger with motivation, and Enel did something that would have easily anger Luffy (attacked his friends).

I like how people say "Luffy overcame his durability which is far below his AP" without showing the actual difference between those stats and just relying on the fact that Luffy defeated him like it's some sort of unbeatable logic.
 
Except Luffy doesn't consistently grow stronger in a short period of time, I can think of at best 2 instances in the entire series where that arguably happened. The golden ball thing being one of them and Luffy was already hurting Enel before that.

Again I don't see why we need proof his durability does scale rather than needing proof it does. Most other logias have clear reasons beyond "they use their own energy/powers to attack" to justify their durability scales to their devil fruit while Enel doesn't. If that was all it took Wizards in Harry Potter would have 8-C durability in general, Cyclops would have 5-A, Black Bolt 4-B, etc.
 
Dunno about those cases, but Logias works this way and there's no reason to believe otherwise.

>Luffy grew stronger between Loguetown and Arabasta doing nothing but eating, partying and fighting a couple of dudes in the process

>Luffy grew stronger during the fight against Enel

>Grew stronger between the stomp he got in Water Seven and the fight in Enies Lobby

>Grew stronger during his fight against Katakuri
 
The Calaca said:
Dunno about those cases, but Logias works this way and there's no reason to believe otherwise.

>Luffy grew stronger between Loguetown and Arabasta doing nothing but eating, partying and fighting a couple of dudes in the process

>Luffy grew stronger during the fight against Enel

>Grew stronger between the stomp he got in Water Seven and the fight in Enies Lobby

>Grew stronger during his fight against Katakuri
Click to expand...
1. Again other Logias have reasons to justify their durability, Enel doesn't. I know it's standard to scale durability to striking strength but as far as I know that's not the case with energy projection or magic or anything else.

2. There is absolutely no reason to say Luffy grew stronger between Loguetown and Alabasta other than to add a completely arbitrary extra key.

3. If you're referring to the golden ball thing I can acknowledge that could justify giving Luffy an extra key. But he was already damaging Enel before that and after he basically one-shot him.

4. That one is completely true.

5. Luffy didn't get stronger, his observation Haki just improved.
 
1. If other Logias have their durability scaling to their AP without something hinting that they are a special case, then I don't know why is Enel debated here since he has nothing in canon supporting his glass cannon status.

2. It's an example. By Loguetown you could say Orange Town as well.

3. That's an example of Luffy's growth, actually.

5. Luffy was growing in every sense. Even his raw power was getting slightly improved. His most notable improvement is his Haki, but he went from being stomped to being able to fight Katakuri even at a monstruous disadvantage without losing the track of him for the rest of the fight.
 
Iirc in the Katakuri fight Luffy went from barely being able to keep up with him in Gear 4th to keeping up with him in base (or gear 2nd I'm not sure).
 
I still don't believe that Jack should really scale to Zunesha.

He is tiny compared to the size of Zunesha's trunk, and he was practically one-shot by it.
 
1. I wouldn't even say other Logias scale directly from their own AP as much having actual durability feats. Akainu and Aokiji are equal and presumably took hits from each other, Crocodile took hit from Luffy who explicitly overpowered one of his sand attacks, Ace could take hits from someone who was strong enough to be a Yonko commander candidate before eating a devil fruit, Monet already fight mostly in melee combat so she's irrelevant.

2. It doesn't matter where it starts it's still without justification.

3. I'm not denying it happens sometimes (even if I absolutely hate it)

5. I'll concede on this one
 
1. It proves that the Logias ain't glass cannons. This is literally being argued for Enel alone while there's no disonancies with the other characters.

2. He grows stronger even if he doesn't train at all. Zoro has stated that all of them have become stronger during the journey through every fight.
 
I honestly don't know why any of the commanders scale to the original 3 admirals other than Marco (even he wasn't ever really on top in any confrontation but he still shines above the others).

It would make more sense to me to scale them to Jack here. None of them have shown to be on the level of Marco or the admirals.
 
The Low 6-B scaling comes also from Ace as well. It was discussed before and I can't look for the arguments right now.
 
Didn't he only win the clash with Aokiji because of the elemental advantage?

I'm not sure if I could say Ace would be on the same level as someone like Cracker. lol

I guess there is also Vista clashing with Mihawk and Jozu hurting Aokiji.
 
Yeah there is a huge amount of feats we discussed a few weeks ago. But on the subject of Logia durability, are we sure they should scale the same as their flesh forms?
 
He burned Shirohige on the novel, stalemated Jinbei (who stopped one of Akainu's punches), harmed Teach and clashed with Aokiji. Ace's one of the character with the bigger amount of feats to scale him to Low 6-B.
 
The Calaca said:
He burned Shirohige on the novel, stalemated Jinbei (who stopped one of Akainu's punches), harmed Teach and clashed with Aokiji. Ace's one of the character with the bigger amount of feats to scale him to Low 6-B.
Click to expand...
Oh no I meant Cracker should not be scaled to Ace. lol

Might've phrased that wrong.
 
So what are the conclusions here?
 
Antvasima said:
So what are the conclusions here?
Click to expand...
I tried to summarize it as best as I can…

  • For the first calc (the Wyper calc), discussion are still in the process. Many are okay with most of the Skypeia cast, except for Luffy and Enel being downgraded to Low 7-C. Though one person disagrees, saying that Wyper has been shown taking multiple attacks from Enel and should remain 7-C+.
    • We have few who are arguing that Enel is a glass canon and that his durability shouldn't scales to his attacking power and that it should be lower since Luffy is supposed to always be Comparable to Zoro and Sanji, who would be demoted to Low 7-C if this the proposal in the OP goes through. But we have a few arguing against this stating that Luffy would have gotten much stronger during the course of the Arc in a short amount of time and thus by the end of the Arc would be stronger than Zoro and Sanji. So yeah, there are some things still to be discussed.
  • For the second calc (Kuma's Ursa Shock), haven't been discussed much on it. Still have to be decided on who actually scales to the feat.
  • For the third calc (The King Punch calc), nobody seems to have a problem with the proposal in the OP regarding the two person scaling to the feat, Elizabello and Bartolomeo.
  • For the fourth calc (The Zunesha calc), Again, nobody seem to have a problem with Zunesha scaling, though one or two mention that the Yonko Commanders should scale to it, mostly because of the interaction with Jack and Zunesha.
 
Okay. It seems like you have things under control without my help then.
 
I don't have a problem with Luffy getting much stronger by the end of the arc. But as I have pointed out he was already damaging Enel before that and Enel was shown practically one-shotting people who should be on Luffy's level at that point. That's the main reason I think Enel should be a glass cannon.
 
He wasn't one-shotting people tho. Wyper even took one that went through his body and he didn't faint.
 
Of course not. His 65KT feat comes from an El Thor, an attack he uses a lot just to kill fodder and that requires virtually zero effort compared to attacks that he uses when hitting those things in his back and explicitly stating a certain 'Vari' value.

Wyper and Zoro took such attacks head on.
 
I don't think that his attacks with a stated "Vari" value are any higher than his El Thor attack.

By all accounts his El Thor is his most destructive attack (obviously excluding the ones enhanced by his Ark) and him using it against fodder doesn't mean it is weak; it just means Enel isn't the kind of guy who holds back.
 
So Enel should be 7-C+ only with his El Thor (Strongest Attack) and Luffy probably don't scale to this.
 
RoronoaxRobin said:
Enel never used El Thor on Wyper and Zoro. He knocked them out respectively with Thunder Bird and Lightning Beast.
Click to expand...
https://********.org/chapter/61863/15

It only hit Wyper directly I guess. Zoro was already out.
 
https://********.org/chapter/61863/15

It only hit Wyper directly I guess. Zoro was already out.

I had completely forgotten Wyper got back up to his feet after Enel hit him with Thunder Bird. I thought it had took him out just like Lightning Beast did to Zoro.
 
So when are we actually going to implement these calcs? Are we waiting for the El Thor recalc approval?

Cause we could at least implement the others.
 
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