Buu Saga Definitive Review

[LuffyRuffy46307]

Based on the canon evidence within the Dragon Ball series, there is substantial support for the claim that Majin Buu has the power to destroy the entire universe.

First, Goku explicitly mentions that Kid Buu could obliterate the universe completely. This is a direct statement from one of the most experienced characters in the series.



Additionally, after Buu absorbs Gotenks, the ancient Supreme Kai who has a deep understanding of cosmic destruction states that Buu will obliterate the entire universe. This statement carries significant weight, given the Supreme Kai’s knowledge on the destruction of the entire macrocosom later on in super, and the context in which it was made.



Translation: "If that's the case, the entirety of the universe is damned."

Extra Evidence: if that's not enough I don't know what else is, pointing out from the official guide of Dragon Ball manga that Majin Buu could destroy the entire universe.



Translation:

"To prevent Buu, a monster with the power to destroy the universe, from coming back to life, Both Shin,Kibito and Goku's group invaded Babidi's lair. However, Dabura, the king of the demon world, who has become Babidi's subordinate, petrifies Kuririn and Piccolo. To save them, and even though they know it's a trap, Goku and the rest of the fighters enter Babidi's ship, where they must face all his minions. After easily defeating them, they arrive before Babidi, who claims that Dabra will defeat them all."

Last but not least, the Super Exciting Guide also supports this, stating that if the battle continues, the whole universe could be destroyed.



Translation: "We go at it like this, the whole universe will be destroyed...!"

In addition to the manga title confirming that it will be a fight for the universe, which ends up confirming that Majin Buu can destroy the Universe

CHAPTER 509: A MATCH WITH THE WHOLE UNIVERSE AT STAKE

Secondly, The manga took a retcon that now shows energy being absorbed from across the entire universe. This is reflected in both Dragon Ball Z and Dragon Ball Super, where there are quotes indicating that energy is drawn from the universe.

In the DBS manga it is also explicit that the energy was gathered throughout the Universe.

In the Z manga it is also mentioned that the energy from the afterlife was also sent there.

The official Japanese translation further supports this by stating that the energy was gathered from all over the universe.

https://imgur.com/a/yIAdlC0

Translation can be found here



Source: * "ドラゴンボール 超エキサイティングガイド" (Dragon Ball: Super Exciting Guide)

Yet more evidence that the energy gathered went throughout the Universe to defeat Majin Buu.

https://imgur.com/a/26fmOxw

Spoiler: Second One

Majin Buu's destruction rages on, with even the earth getting destroyed!



Goku retreats to the World of Kaioshin, but Majin Buu has him in his devilish grasp!


Transforming into Super Saiyan 3, Goku manages to somehow withstand Majin's relentless assault and unleashes a counterattack with a special technique!


It is the Genki-dama (Super Spirit Bomb) that gathers energy from the whole universe!

Translation

This revision will affect the scale of the Buu Saga from 4-B to 3-A with all the evidence presented, it will also affect characters like Vegetto, Gohan, Majin Buu, Goku.

Despite a previous rule against upgrading Kid Buu's destructive capabilities based on universal statements from the Buu Saga, new evidence has emerged. Given this new evidence, the previous rule should no longer apply, and it’s time to update Majin Buu’s capabilities accordingly

Majin Buu

Majin Buu is an ancient force of destruction that has existed since time immemorial, cycling between periods of rampaging and hibernation. He absorbed the evil elements of races he eradicated during his rampages and steadily became more violent and evil. The evil mage Bibidi knew how to summon...

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Agree: @CelestialVortex01 (thank you for organizing everything for me and fixing the handwriting), @GrayCraft_Dragon, @Rokim21

Disagree: @Damage3245, @Qawsedf234, @Maverick_Zero_X

 

[Huesito88]

"Agree: @CelestialVortex01 (thank you for organizing everything for me and fixing the handwriting)"

Putting someone in the agree before they even comment

 

[LuffyRuffy46307]

"Agree: @CelestialVortex01 (thank you for organizing everything for me and fixing the handwriting)"

Putting someone in the agree before they even comment

He helped me with it, he agrees with it.

 

[GrayCraft_Dragon]

This seems good, agree!

 

[Hasty12345]

Kid Buu could obliterate the universe completely

He doesn't indicate it can be done in a single blast.

obliterate the entire universe

He doesn't say obliterate and the statement isn't indicative of a method of destruction.

The second statement in that link just says they're the strongest in the universe (no Beerus respect).

To prevent Buu, a monster with the power to destroy the universe, from coming back to life, Both Shin,Kibito and Goku's group invaded Babidi's lair. However, Dabura, the king of the demon world, who has become Babidi's subordinate, petrifies Kuririn and Piccolo. To save them, and even though they know it's a trap, Goku and the rest of the fighters enter Babidi's ship, where they must face all his minions. After easily defeating them, they arrive before Babidi, who claims that Dabra will defeat them all.

I can't read that language so I can't comment as to the validity of this claim.

Translation: "We go at it like this, the whole universe will be destroyed...!"

I don't have a problem with this being used to argue possibly 3-A or something to that effect.

As for the "all the energy of the universe" argument. That's simply not 3-A, iirc all the energy in the universe is taken to be 4-A. I could be wrong.

 

[LuffyRuffy46307]

He doesn't indicate it can be done in a single blast.

Not giving a specific time, but saying that he can is what matters here.

He doesn't say obliterate and the statement isn't indicative of a method of destruction.

The second statement in that link just says they're the strongest in the universe (no Beerus respect).

Did you really see the context? Old Kaioshin mentions that it will be the death of the Universe

I can't read that language so I can't comment as to the validity of this claim.

The translation is below, man

I don't have a problem with this being used to argue possibly 3-A or something to that effect.

As for the "all the energy of the universe" argument. That's simply not 3-A, iirc all the energy in the universe is taken to be 4-A. I could be wrong.

There is no way to calculate the energy of the universe to be gathered, I tried in the calculation group

 

[Hasty12345]

Not giving a specific time, but saying that he can is what matters here.

Characters or objects that can create or destroy all celestial bodies within a finite 3-D space at least equivalent in size to the observable universe via an omnidirectional explosion that covers the entire space, alternately create or significantly affect[note 1] a 3-D universe or a pocket dimension of comparable size, which does not involve the destruction and/or creation of space-time.

Time and method of destruction do matter, and Goku does not specify how or how long Buu can perform the feat.

Did you really see the context? Old Kaioshin mentions that it will be the death of the Universe and not

I did see the context, that's why I corrected you when you said Old Man Kai claimed Buu could obliterate the universe when he never said anything close to that.

There is no way to calculate the energy of the universe to be gathered, I tried in the calculation group

That works against you. You can't claim it's 3-A if you cannot quantify it.

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

While I never disagreed that he can destroy the entire universe, the concern is does he do it all with one attack, or just does so destroying one planet or star at a time? Which it has always been implied the latter being the more likely method.

 

[LuffyRuffy46307]

Time and method of destruction do matter, and Goku does not specify how or how long Buu can perform the feat.

Well, there is no set deadline or how long it would take, but the most important thing is that he can do it.

I did see the context, that's why I corrected you when you said Old Man Kai claimed Buu could obliterate the universe when he never said anything close to that.

Old Kaio mentions the death of the Universe if Majin Buu doesn't destroy it, which ends up confirming that Majin Buu can destroy the Universe.

That works against you. You can't claim it's 3-A if you cannot quantify it.

Note that the energy gathered from the entire Universe is just to affirm that it took energy gathered from the entire Universe, nothing against my crt.

 

[Hasty12345]

Well, there is no set deadline or how long it would take, but the most important thing is that he can do it.

No, the most important thing is how long it takes and how it's done. I quoted the site standards as to what qualifies as 3-A.

Old Kaio mentions the death of the Universe if Majin Buu doesn't destroy it, which ends up confirming that Majin Buu can destroy the Universe.

See point above.

Note that the energy gathered from the entire Universe is just to affirm that it took energy gathered from the entire Universe, nothing against my crt.

It's also nothing in favor of your CRT.

 

[Damage3245]

I heavily disagree with this. It is not implied that Buu could destroy the Universe in one attack. He'd be a peril to the inhabitants of the Universe over time.

 

[LuffyRuffy46307]

While I never disagreed that he can destroy the entire universe, the concern is does he do it all with one attack, or just does so destroying one planet or star at a time? Which it has always been implied the latter being the more likely method.

Well, there is no set time, but in Goku's translation it is stated that he would do this in a "poof" which could mean a short time, well we can give it a possibly 3-A classification over time with several pieces of evidence that it could obliterate the Universe

 

[RanHover60]

Yeah the only quote that could possibly reference immediate destruction in regards to the living universe is Goku saying their fight could destroy the universe, the rest could just be done overtime and as said before, collecting all the energy of the universe would only yield about 4a, which no one would likely scale to.

 

[Ednaxel2]

While I never disagreed that he can destroy the entire universe, the concern is does he do it all with one attack, or just does so destroying one planet or star at a time? Which it has always been implied the latter being the more likely method.

I mean he doesn't really have the flight speed to cover that

 

[RanHover60]

I mean he doesn't really have the flight speed to cover that

You’d only have to be around star level iirc to destroy every celestial body in the universe, it will just take a while. Not to mention Buu is mftl along with being solar system level so him simply just taking a while to destroy the universe is plausible.

 

[Vietthai96]

i don't really care much with this thread, but i have a question, how he going to be a threat to the universe with that MHS speed??, it going to take over trillion of years just to destroy Living Universe, considering DB's Living Universe is larger than our real life observable universe, considering Old Kai's statement, he going to come to Supreme Kai world eventually in his lifetime, which is only get like thousand of year left in a very short amount of time

You’d only have to be around star level iirc to destroy every celestial body in the universe, it will just take a while. Not to mention Buu is mftl along with being solar system level so him simply just taking a while to destroy the universe is plausible.

He is Massively Hypersonic, not MFTL

 

[Hasty12345]

He is Massively Hypersonic, not MFTL

Could you point out where it says that?

Both DBS manga and DBZ profiles list him as MFTL and I can’t imagine DBH or Toei Buu is MHS?

 

[Eden_Warlock99]

Kid Buu is, in fact, x432,000 Light Speed.

 

[Ednaxel2]

Not to mention Buu is mftl along with being solar system level so him simply just taking a while to destroy the universe is plausible.

He's only mftl+ in combat speed. He is hypersonic+ in flight speed

 

[Huesito88]

He's referring to travel speed

 

[Eden_Warlock99]

It do be very weird how it's only applied to Goku and not Buu tho

 

[Vietthai96]

Could you point out where it says that?

Both DBS manga and DBZ profiles list him as MFTL and I can’t imagine DBH or Toei Buu is MHS?

@Damage3245 downgraded DBZ manga speed back then (i lost where is the thread though), splited into travel speed and combat speed, i somehow do not see it on Buu profile, probably either he forgot to apply the thread or someone removed it, but he still scales DBZ Manga Goku who has hypersonic+ travel speed

 

[RanHover60]

He's only mftl+ in combat speed. He is hypersonic+ in flight speed

Nvm that point them

 

[Eden_Warlock99]

It should be noted that Kid Buu doesn't have the travel speed problem, thanks to Kai Kai.
Buutenks would, though.

 

[Hasty12345]

@Damage3245 downgraded DBZ manga speed back then (i lost where is the thread though), splited into travel speed and combat speed, i somehow do not see it on Buu profile, probably either he forgot to apply the thread or someone removed it, but he still scales DBZ Manga Goku who has hypersonic+ travel speed

@Damage3245 bruh

 

[Vietthai96]

i found it

Although it should be noted that Kid Buu doesn't have the travel speed problem, thanks to Kai Kai.

he know Kai Kai way later, the old kai statement refering to Buu before he know the technique. Also even with kai kai he still need to know his destination, or else he just pop up at random places even with kai kai

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

You’d only have to be around star level iirc to destroy every celestial body in the universe, it will just take a while. Not to mention Buu is mftl along with being solar system level so him simply just taking a while to destroy the universe is plausible.

4-B would still be absolute minimum; that's the energy required to destroy the neutron star with the highest GBE in history.

 

[StrymULTRA]

No Kid Buu > Buuhan stuff? L.

 

[Qawsedf234]

While I never disagreed that he can destroy the entire universe, the concern is does he do it all with one attack, or just does so destroying one planet or star at a time? Which it has always been implied the latter being the more likely method.

I heavily disagree with this. It is not implied that Buu could destroy the Universe in one attack. He'd be a peril to the inhabitants of the Universe over time.

Yeah this is my main issue here. Buu is immortal and has shown the ability that he can easily learn teleportation abilities. Him being 4-B or 4-A with either aspect would allow him to destroy the universe given enough time. Nothing in the OP convinces me the above isn't possible other than just suggesting it could be done fast.

So for now I'm in the disagree camp.

 

[Rokim21]

Knowing the workings of the Genkidama, which has been shown many a time to absorb energy from anything living through the area it affects, I do feel like at least the Universal Genkidama itself that Goku used against Kid Buu would qualify for a 3-A rating at least.
Not too sure on characters directly scaling to it tho, Kid Buu only survived as long as he did against it because Goku couldn't muster the force to push it until he got his stamina restored, so I'd wage pushing the Universal Genkidama back/forwards ≠ scaling to it's full power

You can count my vote as "Yes (to the Universal Genkidama being at least 3-A)"

 

[Maverick_Zero_X]

I heavily disagree with this. It is not implied that Buu could destroy the Universe in one attack. He'd be a peril to the inhabitants of the Universe over time.

Yeah this is my main issue here. Buu is immortal and has shown the ability that he can easily learn teleportation abilities. Him being 4-B or 4-A with either aspect would allow him to destroy the universe given enough time. Nothing in the OP convinces me the above isn't possible other than just suggesting it could be done fast.

So for now I'm in the disagree camp.

I disagree with 3-A for the same reasons.

 

[Vietthai96]

Buu is immortal

• Longevity (Buu has existed since time immemorial, which was at least hundreds of millions of years ago)

has shown the ability that he can easily learn teleportation abilities

he know Kai Kai way later, the old kai statement refering to Buu before he know the technique. Also even with kai kai he still need to know his destination, or else he just pop up at random places even with kai kai

 

[StrymULTRA]

I disagree with 3-A for the same reasons.

Yeah this is my main issue here. Buu is immortal and has shown the ability that he can easily learn teleportation abilities. Him being 4-B or 4-A with either aspect would allow him to destroy the universe given enough time. Nothing in the OP convinces me the above isn't possible other than just suggesting it could be done fast.

So for now I'm in the disagree camp.

I heavily disagree with this. It is not implied that Buu could destroy the Universe in one attack. He'd be a peril to the inhabitants of the Universe over time.

As you 3 disagree, are you fine with closing this? I wanna make a thread for a discussion rule, as this thing has been brought up 5 times with the same arguments lol.

 

[LuffyRuffy46307]

As you 3 disagree, are you fine with closing this? I wanna make a thread for a discussion rule, as this thing has been brought up 5 times with the same arguments lol.

We already have a rule in his profile written, there was new evidence proving that he could destroy the Universe.

 

[StrymULTRA]

We already have a rule in his profile written.

Let's move it here then!

Discussion Rules

VS Battles Wiki is a site where the members attempt to index the statistics of characters across different fictional franchises. These efforts lead to much discussion about certain feats, statements and calculations regarding their validity, reliability, etc. However, certain topics keep popping...

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[Damage3245]

Let's move it here then!

Discussion Rules

VS Battles Wiki is a site where the members attempt to index the statistics of characters across different fictional franchises. These efforts lead to much discussion about certain feats, statements and calculations regarding their validity, reliability, etc. However, certain topics keep popping...

vsbattles.fandom.com

Agreed. Let's add the rule to there.

 

[StrymULTRA]

Agreed. Let's add the rule to there.

Nah, that won't make it. I wanna make a more elaborated thread with a better wording, as I don't see the point of dragging this further, especially given that the staff here will likely not reply here anymore.

 

[Qawsedf234]

• Longevity (Buu has existed since time immemorial, which was at least hundreds of millions of years ago)

My mistake there. Though still, being able to live for 100+ Million years is enough to accomplish what I mentioned before

he know Kai Kai way later, the old kai statement refering to Buu before he know the technique. Also even with kai kai he still need to know his destination, or else he just pop up at random places even with kai kai

Super Buu learned how to sense ki. So he would always be able to use Kai-Kai to land at place with energy.

 

[TheGodOfICE777]

My mistake there. Though still, being able to live for 100+ Million years is enough to accomplish what I mentioned before

Super Buu learned how to sense ki. So he would always be able to use Kai-Kai to land at place with energy.

The thing is Elder Kai talks about how he only has a thousand years left, and how Buu would finish destroying the Universe in that timeframe. That’s the reason Elder Kai gives his life to Goku and is the explanation he gives to Shin and Kibito. Also, Buu didn’t know Kai Kai until he turned Pure Boo and destroyed the earth, so he wouldn’t be able to Kai Kai as Buutenks. That would still mean that Buu would have to traverse the Universe in around 1000 years, so his travel speed should atleast be raised to MFTL+ speeds to reflect that.

 

[Cropfist]

4-B would still be absolute minimum; that's the energy required to destroy the neutron star with the highest GBE in history.

What about destroying black holes?