Bungou Stray Dogs - Speed CRT

[XxZetsuxX]

So, I'm making this CRT with the help of @RoggerReggor who found this feats;

Atsushi can attack at the speed of lighting (440000 m/s - Massively Hypersonic+), Where Akutagawa can easily keep up with him and fight him toe to toe

Dazai should easily scale to this as he can evade casually Atsushi's attacks and Oda who can also dodge casually and even one shots Akutagawa

Chuuya should upscale this feat as he can overwhelm Dazai easily

Lovecraft should also upscale this feat as he can go toe to toe albeit with some difficulty against Corruption mode Chuuya, And he also upscales several characters

Francis with 500k money should also upscale this feat as it was needed Akutagawa and Atsushi together to beat him

Also the High Hypersonic speeds should also get nuked as there is no calcs (As of now) that can place them in such tier of speed

Staff agrees (0) -

Staff disagrees (0) -

Staff neutral (0) -

 

[Serlock_Holmes]

I agree seems pretty simple.

 

[Zefra3011]

I'm not familiar with the verse but what exactly gives validity to the statement? As you are saying there are no feats to support it and we are not talking about a subsonic or supersonic statment, we are talking about a massively hypersonic statement which would require a lot of proofs + Hyperboles and figures of speech exist.

I also remember a feat (which I calced like 30 min ago cause I was bored) where the same guy who is supposed to move at 440000 m/s only reacted to a bullet shot from some meters away when it was point blank which is weird since if he is actually Massively Hypersonic he should literally see that bullet as frozen.

Tho, again, I'm not familiar with the verse so feel free to correct me in case.

 

[XxZetsuxX]

I'm not familiar with the verse but what exactly gives validity to the statement? As you are saying there are no feats to support it and we are not talking about a subsonic or supersonic statment, we are talking about a massively hypersonic statement which would require a lot of proofs + Hyperboles and figures of speech exist.

I also remember a feat (which I calced like 30 min ago cause I was bored) where the same guy who is supposed to move at 440000 m/s only reacted to a bullet shot from some meters away when it was point blank which is weird if he is actually Massively Hypersonic since he should literally see that bullet as frozen.

Tho, again, I'm not familiar with the verse so feel free to correct me in case.

All characters can react and predict the bullet trajectories

There are also statements where bullets don't work in the verse

And the fact there are skill users who use lighting as attacks

 

[XxZetsuxX]

By the way, The skill user who used lighting is fodder to the verse

 

[LaserPrecision]

I also remember a feat (which I calced like 30 min ago cause I was bored) where the same guy who is supposed to move at 440000 m/s only reacted to a bullet shot from some meters away when it was point blank which is weird since if he is actually Massively Hypersonic he should literally see that bullet as frozen.

This doesn't seem like an anti-feat tbh. Reacting to a bullet a few centimeters away from your face with ease doesn't really disprove lightning speed. I know nothing of this verse, but figured I'd point that out.

 

[Zefra3011]

All characters can react and predict the bullet trajectories

There are also statements where bullets don't work in the verse

I never disagreed with it, I simply said the same dude who is Massively Hypersonic only reacted to the bullet when it crossed more than 1 m which is weird and using something which ranges between subsonic and supersonic+ rating isn't really enough to prove a massively hypersonic rating since we are talking about a massive difference, people can react to bullet and not react to lightings.

And the fact there are skill users who use lighting as attacks

Do people actually react/dodge/block those lighting? As far as I see in the scene the dude simply tanks it + are those lighting comparable to natural lighting or they simply look like them and are magic based?

This doesn't seem like an anti-feat tbh. Reacting to a bullet a few centimeters away from your face with ease doesn't really disprove lightning speed. I know nothing of this verse, but figured I'd point that out.

Actually it is, reaction is how much time you need before actually realize something, in this case is how much time the guy needs in order to realize there is a bullet going to hit him, I'm perfectly fine with them being faster than bullets or at least comparable tho the fact the bullet has been shot from several meters means the guy had a lot of time to react to it and he only reacted to it when it was point blank, assuming the bullet moved 1 m and it should be around 400 m/s based on the gun they used, the time frame in order to react is 0,0025s while a Massively Hypersonic+ has a baseline reaction of 0,00000294 s, that's why I'm saying it's weird he only reacted when it was in extreme proximity with his face, tho it's also true bullets are hard to see since they are very small, but with that reaction he should have react to that bullet earlier, I'm just saying that, the fact he could almost reach him might mean he is barely faster than it.

 

[XxZetsuxX]

I never disagreed with it, I simply said the same dude who is Massively Hypersonic only reacted to the bullet when it crossed more than 1 m which is weird and using something which ranges between subsonic and supersonic+ rating isn't really enough to prove a massively hypersonic rating since we are talking about a massive difference, people can react to bullet and not react to lightings.

I see

Do people actually react/dodge/block those lighting? As far as I see in the scene the dude simply tanks it + are those lighting comparable to natural lighting or they simply look like them and are magic based?

It's not magic

It's super powers

 

[Zefra3011]

Mh, my point would still stay but Dazai called it lighting so it should be fine I guess? Tho might still be because it appears as a lighting which doesn't necessary mean it's comparable to natural ones, regardless the main point is this:

Do people actually react/dodge/block those lighting?

 

[XxZetsuxX]

I mean, The fact the scan i sended states Atsushi can attack at the speed of lighting

And Dazai can casually evade them, I think it's safe to assume so

But i will try to find scans

 

[LaserPrecision]

Actually it is, reaction is how much time you need before actually realize something, in this case is how much time the guy needs in order to realize there is a bullet going to hit him, I'm perfectly fine with them being faster than bullets or at least comparable tho the fact the bullet has been shot from several meters means the guy had a lot of time to react to it and he only reacted to it when it was point blank, assuming the bullet moved 1 m and it should be around 400 m/s due to the gun they used, the time frame in order to react is 0,0025s while a Massively Hypersonic+ has a baseline reaction of 0,00000294 s, that's why I'm saying it's weird he only reacted when it was in extreme proximity with his face, tho it's also true bullets are hard to see since they are very small, but with that reaction he should have react to that bullet earlier, I'm just saying that, the fact he could almost reach him might mean he is barely faster than it.

But this interpretation makes zero sense because reactions/perception is far faster than how quickly you can voluntarily move your body. Him reacting to the bullet when it was close is actually MORE impressive than reacting to it from far away. Because it means he traveled more distance relative to the bullet in the same timeframe.

If I bend over backwards 180° in the same timeframe it takes a bullet to travel 10 meters, that's significantly less impressive than if I bend over backwards 180° when a bullet travels 5 centimeters in the same timeframe.

Just because he noticed the bullet when it was that close doesn't mean his reactions were too slow to notice it. There could just as easily be other factors (Like only noticing it due to the small size or being somewhat distracted). The very fact he could move his body while the bullet was centimeters away disproves that notion as he would need to travel speeds significantly faster than the bullet to catch it with his mouth from that close.

You physically couldn't open your mouth and catch a bullet with it if you weren't fast enough to react to it while it was centimeters away and didn't notice it flying several meters until it was right up in your face. Because that would mean the bullet is >>>>>>> your own speed.

 

[Zefra3011]

But this interpretation makes zero sense because reactions/perception is far faster than how quickly you can voluntarily move your body.

It's not, people iRL can actually attack at what we rate superhuman speed, tho their reaction is lower than 0,08 s.

Him reacting to the bullet when it was close is actually MORE impressive than reacting to it from far away. Because it means he traveled more distance relative to the bullet in the same timeframe.

Assuming we have two scenarios where both involve a gun which can shoot a bullet at 400 m/s and a guy, the distance gun - guy is 10 m, the guns shoot, the first guy can react when the bullet cross 2 m meaning his reaction is 2 / 400 = 0,005 s, the second dude can react to the bullet only when it crossed 9,999999999m meaning his reaction is 9,999999999 / 400 = 0,0249 s which one is more impressive? The one who noticed it when it was 8 m away or the one who noticed it when it was 0,00000001 m away? The distance he traveled is irrelevant especially when in that specific context it doesn't really look lke he moved a dozen of meters, he made a small dash of 2 m at best and the bullet was right in front of him.

If I bend over backwards 180° in the same timeframe it takes a bullet to travel 10 meters, that's significantly less impressive than if I bend over backwards 180° when a bullet travels 5 centimeters in the same timeframe.

I talked about reaction and not movement speed, they are different, tho I agree that if you run at a certain speed or you react while moving you body it also count as reaction sure but in this context is him moving the head a distance similar the distance the bullet traveled when if he was actually 440000 m/s he could have react to the bullet, go and take a coffe and return back and the bullet wouldn't have moved.

Just because he noticed the bullet when it was that close doesn't mean his reactions were too slow to notice it. There could just as easily be other factors (Like only noticing it due to the small size or being somewhat distracted). The very fact he could move his body while the bullet was centimeters away disproves that notion as he would need to travel speeds significantly faster than the bullet to catch it with his mouth from that close.

Yeah I pointed that out, the problem is that the distance the bullet move and the distance he moved are more less equal and we are talking about a Massively Hypersonic+ dude, that bullet should literally be frozen compared to him, small size it's an excuse to a certain point.

You physically couldn't open your mouth and catch a bullet with it if you weren't fast enough to react to it while it was centimeters away and didn't notice it flying several meters until it was right up in your face. Because that would mean the bullet is >>>>>>> your own speed.

In fact I was ok they are faster than bullets, my main point is that the difference in speed isn't that great, if there are more instances which gives more support to the fact they are massively faster than them I'm perfectly fine, I just pointed out in that specific scene with the same Massively Hypersonic+ guy the difference in speed between the two elements is nowhere near what's presented in the OP, especially when it's a direct statement and not even a calc, I kinda calced it and found out a 390 m/s result with the bullet being 400 m/s and all i said is that it's weird, these dudes are geniuely faster than bullets thought not in an absurd degree, I'm saying that.

 

[LaserPrecision]

It's not, people iRL can actually attack at what we rate superhuman speed, tho their reaction is lower than 0,08 s.

I meant reactions are faster as in they come before movement of the body. Reactions is the time it takes before your body reacts/responds to stimuli. Followed by movement. If a bullet blitzes your reactions, you're def not gonna be able to move to counteract it. Plus, you can't really compare reactions to movement speed because one is a speed and one is a timeframe.

Assuming we have two scenarios where both involve a gun which can shoot a bullet at 400 m/s and a guy, the distance gun - guy is 10 m, the guns shoot, the first guy can react when the bullet cross 2 m meaning his reaction is 2 / 400 = 0,005 s, the second dude can react to the bullet only when it crossed 9,999999999m meaning his reaction is 9,999999999 / 400 = 0,0249 s which one is more impressive? The one who noticed it when it was 8 m away or the one who noticed it when it was 0,00000001 m away? The distance he traveled is irrelevant especially when in that specific context it doesn't really look lke he moved a dozen of meters, he made a small dash of 2 m at best and the bullet was right in front of him.

The issue is you're assuming the guy can ONLY react after the bullet traveled 8 meters. When it could be a conscious decision to wait until the bullet is close among other possibilities.

Which is more impressive, the guy who reacts to a bullet that is 9 meters away, or the one who chooses to react when the bullet it 0.0000000000000001 meters away? It's the latter. By far.

I talked about reaction and not movement speed, they are different, tho I agree that if you run at a certain speed or you react while moving you body it also count as reaction sure but in this context is him moving the head a distance similar the distance the bullet traveled when if he was actually 440000 m/s he could have react to the bullet, go and take a coffe and return back and the bullet wouldn't have moved.

Dodging a bullet from point-blank (cm away) would be combat or reaction speed. If your reaction/combat speed is far faster than a bullet, then your reactions will default be able to pick up on a bullet. You're never gonna see a dude with MFTL+ reaction/combat speed ONLY be able to react to light when it's 1 meter away from their face. That's clearly just them choosing to only react when it's close or not taking notice of it for other variables.

If a bullet is 1 cm from my face, and I travel 100 meters to dodge it in the same time it takes the bullet to travel that 1 centimeter, that would mean I'm 10,000x faster than the bullet. My reaction speed is not gonna be 10/343. How could I possibly make a MHS+ movement but then not have reactions that scale to it? That's what I'm getting at.

Yeah I pointed that out, the problem is that the distance the bullet move and the distance he moved are more less equal and we are talking about a Massively Hypersonic+ dude, that bullet should literally be frozen compared to him, small size it's an excuse to a certain point.

That's fair enough... but you could also just interpret that as him actively choosing to take the shortest method of catching the bullet. Just because he's far faster than the bullet doesn't mean he has to statue it and go out of his way to run 20 laps around it and then catch it with his hand and place it behind the dude who fired it. He coulda just decided to catch it with his mouth and that's it. And small size is a fair excuse when you consider he was running after someone around a corner in the linked scans. If I'm running around a corner, and I come face to face with a tiny projectile, I might not notice it at first. I'm preoccupied with chasing a guy and taking a turn.

In fact I was ok they are faster than bullets, my main point is that the difference in speed isn't that great, if there are more instances which gives more support to the fact they are massively faster than them I'm perfectly fine, I just pointed out in that specific scene with the same Massively Hypersonic+ guy the difference in speed between the two elements is nowhere near what's presented in the OP, especially when it's a direct statement and not even a calc, I kinda calc it and found out a 390 m/s result with the bullet being 400 m/s and all i said is that it's weird, these dudes are geniuely faster than bullets thought not in an absurd degree, I'm saying that.

Which is fine, but the dude choosing to react to a point blank bullet and not choose to blitz it isn't an anti-feat. It's just the guy deciding he'd rather catch the bullet with his mouth than run laps around it. Not everyone is into theatrics like that when they're far faster than something. If he noticed the bullet and couldn't react to it at all, that'd be a perfectly legit anti-feat. But someone faster than a bullet catching a point-blank bullet with ease isn't an anti-feat. The same way someone casually slapping away a beam of light 1 meter away from them isn't an anti-feat for a MFTL+ dude.

I wasn't trying to say you are fully against MHS+, but I disagree with this being a valid anti-feat. A person with MHS+ speed would also be able to easily replicate this feat if they decided they wanted to catch it with their mouth.

 

[XxZetsuxX]

Why are people sending testaments for a simply and straight forward thread?

 

[LaserPrecision]

Why are people sending testaments for a simply and straight forward thread?

Mostly because this is a general issue I've seen a lot recently. There's been a lot of feats where characters only react to a projectile when it's right in front of their face. Imo, people shouldn't assume that means they physically couldn't react to it until it was point blank unless that's stated in the story. Most of the time it just seems like the dude doing the feat flexing and waiting until it's close to dodge it. And in most cases, they move many times faster than the bullet, so having a reaction speed too slow to handle your own speed makes zero sense.

 

[XxZetsuxX]

Mostly because this is a general issue I've seen a lot recently. There's been a lot of feats where characters only react to a projectile when it's right in front of their face. Imo, people shouldn't assume that means they physically couldn't react to it until it was point blank unless that's stated in the story. Most of the time it just seems like the dude doing the feat flexing and waiting until it's close to dodge it. And in most cases, they move many times faster than the bullet, so having a reaction speed too slow to handle your own speed makes zero sense.

I see

 

[Zefra3011]

The issue is you're assuming the guy can ONLY react after the bullet traveled 8 meters. When it could be a conscious decision to wait until the bullet is close among other possibilities.

Which is more impressive, the guy who reacts to a bullet that is 9 meters away, or the one who chooses to react when the bullet it 0.0000000000000001 meters away? It's the latter. By far.

There is a reason why I didn't use the word "decided to react" I was talking about how much time they needed to react and nothing more.

Dodging a bullet from point-blank (cm away) would be combat or reaction speed. If your reaction/combat speed is far faster than a bullet, then your reactions will default be able to pick up on a bullet. You're never gonna see a dude with MFTL+ reaction/combat speed ONLY be able to react to light when it's 1 meter away from their face. That's clearly just them choosing to only react when it's close or not taking notice of it for other variables.

If a bullet is 1 cm from my face, and I travel 100 meters to dodge it in the same time it takes the bullet to travel that 1 centimeter, that would mean I'm 10,000x faster than the bullet. My reaction speed is not gonna be 10/343. How could I possibly make a MHS+ movement but then not have reactions that scale to it? That's what I'm getting at.

That's fair enough... but you could also just interpret that as him actively choosing to take the shortest method of catching the bullet. Just because he's far faster than the bullet doesn't mean he has to statue it and go out of his way to run 20 laps around it and then catch it with his hand and place it behind the dude who fired it. He coulda just decided to catch it with his mouth and that's it. And small size is a fair excuse when you consider he was running after someone around a corner in the linked scans. If I'm running around a corner, and I come face to face with a tiny projectile, I might not notice it at first. I'm preoccupied with chasing a guy and taking a turn.

Which is fine, but the dude choosing to react to a point blank bullet and not choose to blitz it isn't an anti-feat. It's just the guy deciding he'd rather catch the bullet with his mouth than run laps around it. Not everyone is into theatrics like that when they're far faster than something. If he noticed the bullet and couldn't react to it at all, that'd be a perfectly legit anti-feat. But someone faster than a bullet catching a point-blank bullet with ease isn't an anti-feat. The same way someone casually slapping away a beam of light 1 meter away from them isn't an anti-feat for a MFTL+ dude.

I wasn't trying to say you are fully against MHS+, but I disagree with this being a valid anti-feat. A person with MHS+ speed would also be able to easily replicate this feat if they decided they wanted to catch it with their mouth.

Well I agree with the reasoning sure the point is that the scan really show, even using the "eh?", that it's not really him choosing to wait for the bullet to reach him but more about him saying "oh shit there is a bullet there" tho as I pointed above it might be a sort of he simply didn't notice due to many factors and even there I still think it's weird he didn't noticed it and that he is surprised about it when he is astronomically faster than it, I really interpret it as he reacting as soon as he could tho we have no idea when he saw the bullet, sure.

Why are people sending testaments for a simply and straight forward thread?

Because it isn't, especially when comparing lighting to something just because it goes very fast is an extreme common figure of speech, all I did is asking for consistence, because, for example, a verse that has only supersonic feats and on a certain point they drop a lighting statement, that statement would be massively higher than anything shown in the verse, especially when, again, is a common figure of speech like "he's faster than light" which don't directly mean they are on that level of speed but they are simply very fast.

 

[MorrisHatesYou]

Agree with the thread

 

[LaserPrecision]

There is a reason why I didn't use the word "decided to react" I was talking about how much time they needed to react and nothing more.

As a general statement, this is fine. But the issue with assuming they needed that much time to react in and of itself is the issue if the feat of moving in tandem with the bullet gives you results equal to or faster than the bullet.

Well I agree with the reasoning sure the point is that the scan really show, even using the "eh?", that it's not really him choosing to wait for the bullet to reach him but more about him saying "oh shit there is a bullet there" tho as I pointed above it might be a sort of he simply didn't notice due to many factors and even there I still think it's weird he didn't noticed it and that he is surprised about it when he is astronomically faster than it, I really interpret it as he reacting as soon as he could tho we have no idea when he saw the bullet, sure.

If he didn't even see/notice the bullet until it was close, that means he couldn't react until after spotting it. So that completely negates the point of him needing several meters to react to it. If I turned around, and there was a bullet right in front of me that I just noticed, you wouldn't count the time it took me to turn around and even know there was a bullet there. It'd be how close the bullet is when I finally realize it's actually there. Though you do seem to be in agreement that he wouldn't have noticed the bullet right away due to various factors. So I won't press this much further.

 

[Zefra3011]

I'm simply iffy considered the massive difference in speed presented in the OP, I still think the lighting statement needs more support.

 

[LaserPrecision]

I'm simply iffy considered the massive difference in speed presented in the OP, I still think the lighting statement needs more support.

I'm an agreement with this. But I'm pretty lenient on what are "outliers". If you can get feats that are within the same realm (Even a calc with a speed around 10x slower would be fine) or multiple statements on lightning level, I'd be fine with this CRT.

 

[XxZetsuxX]

I'm an agreement with this. But I'm pretty lenient on what are "outliers". If you can get feats that are within the same realm (Even a calc with a speed around 10x slower would be fine) or multiple statements on lightning level, I'd be fine with this CRT.

Alright

 

[RoggerReggor]

I agree with everything.

Also yes, it is reasonable to debate about this as fiction very well uses statements which can just be hyperbolic but the only reason why I gave it out is because:

• Lightning is a very specific thing, something like "like a bullet" is dropped as it uses the word "like" and not "as".
• The characters have feats of creating sonic booms so big that they can destroy half of the buildings, shake the entire furniture, and then the sonic booms are heard in the entire city, something which is also achieved by lightning when it drops, the thunder can be heard in significant parts of the city, but as lightning doesn't have a decent amount of mass, it doesn't have such destructive capability.

 

[LaserPrecision]

I agree with everything.

Also yes, it is reasonable to debate about this as fiction very well uses statements which can just be hyperbolic but the only reason why I gave it out is because:

• Lightning is a very specific thing, something like "like a bullet" is dropped as it uses the word "like" and not "as".
• The characters have feats of creating sonic booms so big that they can destroy half of the buildings, shake the entire furniture, and then the sonic booms are heard in the entire city, something which is also achieved by lightning when it drops, the thunder can be heard in significant parts of the city, but as lightning doesn't have a decent amount of mass, it doesn't have such destructive capability.

You could probably calc that in and of itself. You'd calc the speed at which the shockwaves traveled the radius of the entire city by assuming a relatively short timeframe (Assuming the feat occurred relatively fast). I can imagine Hypersonic results or smth.

 

[XxZetsuxX]

There are characters who can dodge multiple shots from guns that fire soundwaves

And characters who can Deflects 7.62 mm composite armor-piercing rounds from twin machine guns, then blocks the barrels with kitchen knives

Don't know if it means something though

 

[RoggerReggor]

You could probably calc that in and of itself. You'd calc the speed at which the shockwaves traveled the radius of the entire city by assuming a relatively short timeframe (Assuming the feat occurred relatively fast). I can imagine Hypersonic results or smth.

Yes, I am trying to learn that thing.

 

[Zefra3011]

There are characters who can dodge multiple shots from guns that fire soundwaves

And characters who can Deflects 7.62 mm composite armor-piercing rounds from twin machine guns, then blocks the barrels with kitchen knives

Don't know if it means something though

I see the second feat in an hypersonic range, it might be worth to find out the rate that gun fires bullets so we know the difference in distance between a bullet and another, I might give it a try but imo the speed difference is still very high tho that feat seems pretty casual so... maybe with a solid calc and a good reasoning it might work at the end?

EDIT: I might have exaggerated saying it's hypersonic

 

[LaserPrecision]

There are characters who can dodge multiple shots from guns that fire soundwaves

And characters who can Deflects 7.62 mm composite armor-piercing rounds from twin machine guns, then blocks the barrels with kitchen knives

Don't know if it means something though

I think both blocking the bullet and throwing the knife in the barrel before it could complete a rotation is impressive. The latter might be more impressive. As the Minigun is stated to fire at a rate of 100 rounds a second. I assume that means 100 rotations a second too since I think a minigun only fires a bullet once it makes a full rotation (I.e., only one barrel is ever shooting as opposed to all of them simultaneously). 100 r/s would be a 0.01 second timeframe. And the person who threw the knife was across the entire room. They looked to be well over 5 meters apart, and even that would require them to toss the knife at 500 m/s.

 

[XxZetsuxX]

TL;DR

Everyone agrees with the OP then?

Or did i understand it wrong?

 

[Zefra3011]

I'm still in disagreement for now, I personally think before making a thread for this statement the verse needs more calcs, also to see which numbers are constant and which are outlier and these kind of things.

 

[XxZetsuxX]

Aight