Bungou Strays Dogs, Downgrade

[Vzearr]

I will have to say that Idk where this is in the manga since I haven't read it yet. What he says here is cho oonsoku no sogeki, cho oonsoku being supersonic rather than hypersonic. Either way Chuya here used his gravity manipulation to shoot at supersonic speeds which the blind guy could react to and recognize (he is extremely sensetive in every way other than sight) despite hearing no gunfire. So he can clearly recognize something moving at supersonic speed and thus can react to it properly as well (the swordsman seemed to parry the attack as well, at least partially).

Sorry for using discord scans, idk why but my upload speed has been heavily cut down for unknown reasons (maybe another form of sanctions or sth) so I imgur is kinda dead for me now.

What ??

 

[Arceus0x]

What ??

 

[KLOL506]

I'm not saying its aim dodging, I'm saying he's not 4x faster then bullets seeing as he literally can't dodge one from over a meter away.

Again with this? He literally didn't even try to do so.

Using a non existent rule again.

You speak the words yet you do not know the meaning of them.

What are you even arguing ?

I'm so confused on what you're arguing for dude.

Basically, you're looking at the wrong place for the bullet's position when that has been made abundantly clear in the pixel-scaling. End of the barrel where muzzle velocity applies.

Do they apply here ? Stop using other verses reasoning for this verse.

Yes. They do apply here. The three tenets apply to all verses that have feats of this nature.

Assuming he didn't try to dodge when he's actively moving his face is odd.

Ever heard of a term called "caught by surprise"? That happens to even the best.

The narrative is that he's faster then bullets ? Not that he's disproportionately faster then bullets.

That's not even an argument, come on man, try harder.

To show that he could dodge the bullet without directly seeing the bullet. I'm not saying its aim dodging.

And how exactly does this affect the distance between him and the end of the barrel again? Sorry but I'm genuinely not seeing it.

What ? He has problems dodging it from distances greater then one meter, close range he only dodged it once, and its clearly an anti feat.

Yeah no I can't be arsed to argue this after I literally told you why that grazing feat isn't what you think it is.

He's struggling to dodge a bullet, he's comparable to bullets just like a character who gets grazed by another characters punch, they're comparable, and you can't be comparable to someone or something then be 4x faster then it.

So you're just going to keep ignoring context then to pull more nonsensical arguments.

Yeah no I'm done here. Maybe the other calc members can put some sense into you.

 

[Vzearr]

 

[KLOL506]

Also, for the first feat, the gun is a Walther P38.

 

[Vzearr]

Also, for the first feat, the gun is a Walther P38.

I swear I added that in the OP..... No way...

Ever heard of a term called "caught by surprise"? That happens to even the best.

Getting caught by surprise from something you're 4x faster then and staring right at. KLOLLLLLLLLLLLLLL.

Basically, you're looking at the wrong place for the bullet's position when that has been made abundantly clear in the pixel-scaling. End of the barrel where muzzle velocity applies.

What pixel scaling ? It seems you actually did misunderstand what I'm arguing against.

But if you don't want to reply anymore that's fine, have a good day.

 

[KLOL506]

I swear I added that in the OP..... No way...

Getting caught by surprise from something you're 4x faster then and staring right at. KLOLLLLLLLLLLLLLL.

Do you even know why it's that fast?

He's getting shot. At point-blank range. Gee, didn't know dodging a bullet up that freakin' close and moving that far in comparison will always give insane results.

But you do you.

What pixel scaling ? It seems you actually did misunderstand what I'm arguing against.

But if you don't want to reply anymore that's fine, have a good day.

This feat is extremely contradictory, I mean, he can dodge bullets and move 4x faster then them but is using guns close range ? He then can't dodge bullets from a relatively far range which makes no sense whatsoever, contradicting the calc.

You said it, not me.

Now then, cheerio.

 

[Vzearr]

Oda Dodges A Bullet:​

I'd like to add this also assumes a distance moved. He would have only needed to move his head the minimal distance to dodge (which looks like 1 or 2cm), the scene zefra3011 uses for pixel scaling goes out of the timeframe seeing as the bullet has already passed his head (just looking at the blast).

Do you even know why it's that fast?

He's getting shot. At point-blank range. Gee, didn't know dodging a bullet up that freakin' close and moving that far in comparison will always give insane results.

But you do you.

Dude.... I'm talking about the scene where he gets grazed by the bullet, not the scene being calced if that's what you're talking about.

 

[KLOL506]

I'd like to add this also assumes a distance moved. He would have only needed to move his head the minimal distance to dodge (which looks like 1 or 2cm), the scene zefra3011 uses for pixel scaling goes out of the timeframe seeing as the bullet has already passed his head (just looking at the blast).

You cannot be serious.

We literally see him move on-screen. There are no assumptions to take here other than the pixel-scaling we have. PERIOD.

You on the other hand, are making stuff up without any evidence to support your claims. We don't use "minimal distance to dodge" for any of our projectile dodging feats like this unless there are absolutely no images to rely upon, and even then they are looked at with extreme scrutiny.

Dude.... I'm talking about the scene where he gets grazed by the bullet, not the scene being calced if that's what you're talking about.

The same grazing scene I've been telling you doesn't mean jack because he didn't even try to dodge it like he did in the calc?

 

[KLOL506]

You cannot be serious.

We literally see him move on-screen. There are no assumptions to take here other than the pixel-scaling we have. PERIOD.

You on the other hand, are making stuff up without any evidence to support your claims. We don't use "minimal distance to dodge" for any of our projectile dodging feats like this unless there are absolutely no images to rely upon, and even then they are looked at with extreme scrutiny.

One more thing I'd like to add to this is that the muzzle blast would roughly indicate the bullet is somewhere in the middle of the blast or trailing just behind the starting point of it (Based on the videos Arceus posted), and if you want to start measuring the distance between Oda and the middle of the muzzle flash when it is first visible, you'd get an even smaller bullet-to-Oda distance which would jack up the speed of Oda dodging. To say nothing of having to compensate for the muzzle blast expanding and travelling at roughly the same speed as the bullet itself.

 

[Vzearr]

You cannot be serious.

We literally see him move on-screen. There are no assumptions to take here other than the pixel-scaling we have. PERIOD.

The safest assumption would be calcing the distance at minimum he would of had to dodge.

You on the other hand, are making stuff up without any evidence to support your claims. We don't use "minimal distance to dodge" for any of our projectile dodging feats like this unless there are absolutely no images to rely upon, and even then they are looked at with extreme scrutiny.

I mean we can clearly see the bullet has passed his head, we don't truly know if he moved that distance in the timeframe of zefra3011's pixel scaling. For you to say we do know is a baseless, highballed assumption.

The same grazing scene I've been telling you doesn't mean jack because he didn't even try to dodge it like he did in the calc?

He clearly did, he was moving his head for a reason.

 

[KLOL506]

The safest assumption would be calcing the distance at minimum he would of had to dodge.

We don't do that here when the feat is clearly shown on the screen. Don't low-ball for the sake of a low-ball, that's bad practice. Especially without any on-screen evidence to support whatever you're saying.

I mean we can clearly see the bullet has passed his head, we don't truly know if he moved that distance in the timeframe of zefra3011's pixel scaling. For you to say we do know is a baseless, highballed assumption.

Arceus's muzzle flash videos tell us otherwise. This isn't up for discussion. Try claiming "baseless, highballed assumptions" all you want, but without actual on-screen evidence to justify your claims you're barking up the wrong tree.

He clearly did, he was moving his head for a reason.

Completely incorrect.

I went frame by frame, he gets grazed first, then starts moving. As does his opponent.

 

[Vzearr]

We don't do that here when the feat is clearly shown on the screen. Don't low-ball for the sake of a low-ball, that's bad practice.

Why is it a bad practise ? Lowballing when we have no clear evidence behind an assumption is what one should do.

Try claiming "baseless, highballed assumptions" all you want, but without actual on-screen evidence to justify your claims you're barking up the wrong tree.

Yet you can't provide evidence to justify your claims for the feat. So which is really the best to go with. Lowball or highball.

I went frame by frame, he gets grazed first, then starts moving. As does his opponent.

Why would he be moving after but not before, that makes literally no sense.

 

[KLOL506]

Why is it a bad practise ?

Because you're doing it without any on-screen evidence that justifies your assumptions.

Lowballing when we have no clear evidence behind an assumption is what one should do.

We do, he literally ducks that far on-screen. You can keep saying this as much as you want, but the scans have to support what you claim, or else it's futile. So there's no point in you arguing this any further, so you might as well just drop it.

Yet you can't provide evidence to justify your claims for the feat. So which is really the best to go with. Lowball or highball.

Arceus already got me covered on the bullet's position.

Which in turn reinforces what I said about having to compensate for the muzzle flash threatening to burn stuff in its path.

If you don't find that convincing enough then that's not my problem.

Why would he be moving after but not before, that makes literally no sense.

Because that's what he literally does? Like, did you actually even bother going frame-by-frame on that graze video you just posted, or are you just making stuff up just because you can?

 

[Vzearr]

Because you're doing it without any on-screen evidence that justifies your assumptions.

You're doing the same...

We do, he literally ducks that far on-screen. You can keep saying this as much as you want, but the scans have to support what you claim, or else it's futile. So there's no point in you arguing this any further.

But does he duck that far on screen in the timeframe ? For all we know he could have ducked 2 cm before the bullet reached him, then as it went over his head he could have ducked the rest of the distance. Your assumption is truly baseless.

Because that's what he literally does? Like, did you actually even bother going frame-by-frame on that graze video you just posted, or are you just making stuff up just because you can?

I'm not making up stuff lol. Its just dumb, the frame begins with the bullet hitting him, but we see he's in active motion, so clearly he was moving before, because there is literally no reason to move after.

 

[KLOL506]

You're doing the same...

I ain't. Him ducking is literally there for me to see in broad daylight.

But does he duck that far on screen in the timeframe ?

Yes, or else he'd get burned pretty badly by the muzzle flash.

For all we know he could have ducked 2 cm before the bullet reached him, then as it went over his head he could have ducked the rest of the distance.

He would get burnt up before he could do any of that and be thrown off completely.

Your assumption is truly baseless.

More false accusations I see.

I'm not making up stuff lol. Its just dumb, the frame begins with the bullet hitting him, but we see he's in active motion, so clearly he was moving before, because there is literally no reason to move after.

It's just dumb

Frame-by-frame literally shows Oda moving after getting grazed and blood coming out, his opponent also starts moving a while after the graze and blood spurt are shown

....

 

[Vzearr]

Yes, or else he'd get burned pretty badly by the muzzle flash.


He would get burnt up before he could do any of that and be thrown off completely.

That's a good point.

More false accusations I see.

Its not an accusation.

....

Frame-by-frame literally shows Oda moving after getting grazed and blood coming out, his opponent also starts moving a while after the graze and blood spurt are shown

He's moving while its happening, there's a reason we can see the blood still moving. It makes no sense for him to move after the fact. If you can give me a solid reason why he would be moving after the fact that I can't counter then I'll drop this.

 

[CloverDragon03]

Currently I share KLOL's sentiments

 

[KLOL506]

Its not an accusation.

Literally is LMAO, a false one at that, else you wouldn't have called my muzzle flash part a good point.

He's moving while its happening, there's a reason we can see the blood still moving. It makes no sense for him to move after the fact. If you can give me a solid reason why he would be moving after the fact that I can't counter then I'll drop this.

Brother. Blood's spurting out when he starts to move, the graze cut is already complete just before his head starts moving at the slightest. That would literally not even be allowed to be considered as a reaction feat at that point (Completely defeats the purpose of projectile dodging feats and reactions, if you get hit on your flesh even the slightest, you failed to react to it, plain and simple).

Do you want me to post an album going frame by frame to prove to you why what you're saying literally does not add up?

 

[Vzearr]

Brother. Blood's spurting out when he starts to move, the graze cut is already complete just before his head starts moving at the slightest. That would literally not even be allowed to be considered as a reaction feat at that point (Completely defeats the purpose of projectile dodging feats and reactions, if you get hit on your flesh even the slightest, you failed to react to it, plain and simple).?

If he failed to react to it then he's not 4x faster then bullets lol.

Do you want me to post an album going frame by frame to prove to you why what you're saying literally does not add up?

I'd like you to give a reason for why he would be moving after but not before. It makes quite literally no sense.

 

[KLOL506]

If he failed to react to it then he's not 4x faster then bullets lol.

That's the thing, he's not trying to react, else he would've at least tried to move out of the way the same way he did at FREAKIN' POINT-BLANK RANGE just a few seconds ago (Which is what the calc is actually about). You're deluding yourself thinking otherwise.

I'd like you to give a reason for why he would be moving after but not before. It makes quite literally no sense.

How's this for a reason?



Literally after the white frame disappears you can see the blood spurt is already there and he's made no effort to move since the last panel where we see the two shoot at each other. The moving happens only as the blood erupts out even more.

What other nonsensical excuses are you going to pull up for your BS assumptions this time?

 

[Vzearr]

Literally after the white frame disappears you can see the blood spurt is already there and he's made no effort to move since the last panel where we see the two shoot at each other. The moving happens only as the blood erupts out even more.

He clearly has his face is slightly tilted . You also haven't given any reason as to why he would be moving after getting grazed, he was clearly trying to get out of the way.

 

[Arceus0x]

Usually when something causes you pain you move away from that place. It's innate human instinct.

 

[Vzearr]

Usually when something causes you pain you move away from that place. It's innate human instinct.

If its gonna cause him pain and he knows it why wouldn't he dodge it ? Because he's not that fast, its simple.

I still can't believe you guys are saying that using normal ass guns for fights doesn't matter for speed.

 

[KLOL506]

He clearly has his face is slightly tilted .

Wow, it's almost as if you have to tilt your face to line up iron sights on a gun if you're wielding it one-handed in a stressful situation like this.

You also haven't given any reason as to why he would be moving after getting grazed, he was clearly trying to get out of the way.

What do you do when you end up slicing yourself? You recoil in pain. It's not just innate instinct, it's a literal reflex action built in to our nervous system that has saved our asses more times than we'd like to thank it for. Like, did you not study biology in school or what?

 

[Vzearr]

Wow, it's almost as if you have to tilt your face to line up iron sights on a gun if you're wielding it one-handed in a stressful situation like this.

Directly contradicting the panel before hand where his face was clearly straight.

What do you do when you end up slicing yourself? You recoil in pain. It's not just innate instinct, it's a literal reflex action built in to our nervous system that has saved our asses more times than we'd like to thank it for.

If its gonna cause him pain and he knows it why wouldn't he dodge it ? Because he's not that fast, its simple.

did you not study biology in school or what?

This was un-needed wtf.

 

[KLOL506]

If its gonna cause him pain and he knows it why wouldn't he dodge it ?

Oh I don't know, because he doesn't ******* care? Fiction doesn't have to answer every single silly question you might have for them, and it certainly doesn't make your headcanon any more valid.

Because he's not that fast, its simple.

I still can't believe you guys are saying that using normal ass guns for fights doesn't matter for speed.

Argument from incredulity much?

 

[KLOL506]

Directly contradicting the panel before hand where his face was clearly straight.

Too blurry to distinguish. Plus, Oda still had to line his gun up against his foe which would undoubtedly take his focus and make him adjust accordingly.

This was un-needed wtf.

No, that's a genuine question. I'm genuinely curious as to whether you have any knowledge as to how your body works.

 

[Vzearr]

Oh I don't know, because he doesn't ******* care? Fiction doesn't have to answer every single silly question you might have for them, and it certainly doesn't make your headcanon any more valid.

Well he clearly does if he's in pain.

Too blurry to distinguished.

Not really, nitpicking it lol.

No, that's a genuine question. I'm genuinely curious as to whether you have any knowledge as to how your body works.

Lol, idk who you think you are but you should relax a little, stop getting heated dude, simple debate. You can leave any time.

 

[KLOL506]

Well he clearly does if he's in pain.

Maybe it's time you considered that a mere graze like that is nothing to him when bigger things are at stake in a fight like this?

Lol, idk who you think you are but you should relax a little, stop getting heated dude, simple debate. You can leave any time.

I'm perfectly calm, I'm just intolerant of petty nonsensical stuff like this so I like to use crass in cases like this, and if you think that's a bit too much for you to handle, then I'm afraid this place is not for you, because you're gonna get that a lot on this wiki more often than not.

 

[Vzearr]

Maybe it's time you considered that a mere graze like that is nothing to him when bigger things are at stake?

Maybe its time you considered that a graze still hurts and it would have been smarter to just dodge it which I presume he tried to do and failed.

and if you think that's a bit too much for you to handle, then I'm afraid this place is not for you, because you're gonna get that a lot on this wiki more often than not.

Its not too much for me to handle, its just you're acting like a dick with your snarky comments, which I wouldn't expect to come from a staff member.

Anyhow. The calcs all still need to be changed so lets just for those and refrain from debating any longer.

 

[CloverDragon03]

Anyhow. The calcs all still need to be changed so lets just for those and refrain from debating any longer.

Only one change was agreed on so I don't think asserting that "they all still need to be changed" is getting us anywhere

 

[Vzearr]

Only one change was agreed on so I don't think asserting that "they all still need to be changed" is getting us anywhere

They all need changes. Did you read the thread.

 

[Arceus0x]

Only one change was agreed on so I don't think asserting that "they all still need to be changed" is getting us anywhere

The building calc is needed but the footage is gone so I'll have to search for it.

Otherwise we need to change the guns for a calc and that's it.

 

[Vzearr]

Speed:​

Oda Dodges A Bullet:​

This feat is extremely contradictory, I mean, he can dodge bullets and move 4x faster then them but is using guns close range ? He then can't dodge bullets from a relatively far range which makes no sense whatsoever, contradicting the calc.

Also the gun is a Walther P38

Chuuya Blocks A Bullet:​

You can't angsize to Chuuya's head then in the next panel draw the (green) line to his legs which are considerably further back then his face. Drawing the line from his head to the bullet makes it correct.

Atsushi Catches A Bullet:​

The gun used is quite clearly not an UZI, this gun seem eerily similar to the gun the kid is using so I think its the better gun to use.

Also, the pixel scaling is done slightly wrong, the green line should be at least a quarter deep into the bullet seeing as that's when he caught it/chomped down.

Lifting Strength:​

Chuya swings a building​

Quora isn't a reliable source. The source is also just assumption based.

1. Gun Change
2. Angsize Change
3. Gun Change
4. New Calc Entirely

 

[CloverDragon03]

The only thing I can agree to here is the gun being used by the kids needs to be changed, and the building swinging calc be replaced with something more reliable.

The first objection is completely useless here and the arguments make no sense whatsoever. The second calc could do with measuring the distance between the middle of Chuuya's shin to his torso as the distance between him and the bullet when the kick is made.

This is all the changes I agreed to, not exactly all the things you mentioned before (like the first feat allegedly not being reliable, for instance). So it's more than just one, that's my mistake.

 

[KLOL506]

Finally, we can make some progress on the calcs.

 

[Vzearr]

Finally, we can make some progress on the calcs.

 

[KLOL506]

Here's some advice: Maybe don't derail the thread with stuff like this when it's not warranted?

 

[Vzearr]

Here's some advice: Maybe don't derail the thread with stuff like this when it's not warranted?

Its not derailing, there's no discussion. It's a joke. This was again unnecessary.