Broly (Movie 10) vs Super Perfect Cell

[FateAlbane]

Broly: 5 (Pocket-Chu, Hop, SomebodyData, Sethisbest, Pachi2)

Cell: 3 (ConsumingFire, RadicalMrR, JustSomeWeirdo)

Inconclusive: 0

 

[FTW395]

I don't think Broly can dish out anything of the level as the Father-Son Kamehameha Gohan did, so I can see Cell regenerating from most attacks broly uses. However I definitely see SPC being able to harm Broly, even if it's by using a destructo disk (which is now canon thanks to Super). So my vote goes to SPC.

 

[Dark649]

Broly wins, in the second coming he was clearly superior to Super Saiyan 2 Gohan (This version of him did not got weaker after the battle with Cell), Trunks, Goten and stronger than before because of the Zenkai Boost. It was needed the family kamehameha, the pressure of the gravity and the sun to kill him.

 

[SomebodyData]

@FTW I just feel like I have to remind you that the Father-Son Kamehameha was created by a 50% extremely damaged Teen SSJ2 Gohan.

 

[FTW395]

@SD I know Gohan SSj2 got his arm broken and supposedly lost half his power, but I just don't consider that true. I think the Father-son kamehameha that overpowered cell was done by a 100% SSj2 Teen Gohan and that SPC should be around that level, maybe a little less like 95% or 90%. Note that what I mean with Father-son Kamehameha is the last bit of the beam struggle when Gohan overpowers Cell, because it was obvious that Cell was completely overpowering Gohan up until that last boost.

What I'm trying to say is: the Gohan that was losing the beam struggle vs Cell could easily be a 50% Gohan, but the Gohan that killed cell was a 100% Gohan.

 

[Dark649]

What I'm trying to say is: the Gohan that was losing the beam struggle vs Cell could easily be a 50% Gohan, but the Gohan that killed cell was a 100% Gohan.

Likely not, if Vegeta did not distracted Cell, he would have lost the beam struggle.

 

[SomebodyData]

@FTW so you're going against Gohan's own words? Additionally, prior to the last boost, Cell was only barely overpowering him, had he been even moderately overpowering him, the blast would have eventually overcame Gohan instead of stopping 3/4 of the way. With the broken arm, Gohan wouldn't even be able to use the Kamehameha right, so while it is possible that was 100% Gohan, the output of the Kamehameha was definitely not as much as 100% would be.

 

[FTW395]

Likely not, if Vegeta did not distracted Cell, he would have lost the beam struggle.

Sure but that doesn't disprove my theory, Gohan might have only had one shot to go 100% again after his injuries, so when Vegeta distracted Cell he took the chance and went Full Power. You have Goku saying something along the lines of "Do it now!", so it makes sense Gohan did his final push right then and there. Plus I don't know this for sure, but didn't Cell also get hit by his own kamehameha? We saw Ssj2 Teen Gohan deflect Perfect Cell's own Kamehameha and it hurt him back then, so it's reasonable to assume that at the end of the Beam Struggle he also got hit by his own kamehameha.

 

[FTW395]

@SD Not really, I explained what I meant by saying he was still at full power.

 

[SomebodyData]

Yeah I know, and I pointed out that outside of that fact that is complete speculation that he had 100% during the final part, even if he was 100%, the blast wouldn't.

 

[FTW395]

Yeah I know, and I pointed out that outside of that fact that is complete speculation that he had 100% during the final part, even if he was 100%, the blast wouldn't.

That doesn't make sense, ofcourse if he's 100% the blast is also 100%. They continuously keep putting their Ki in the Kamehameha to make it stronger. If the blast didn't get stronger during a BeamStruggle then there wouldn't be a struggle, it would just mean the strongest of the two fighters would overpower the other one in a timeframe that depends on how big the difference between the two fighters is in terms of power.

 

[SomebodyData]

He isn't using both hands, something needed for a full powered Kamehameha, as well as being rushed to counter the Kamehameha, to which Cell had been able to properly charge. I never said the blast didn't get stronger, I just pointed out that the blast didn't get as strong as you believe it to be.

Its basically this, 50% ki, extremely damaged, one handed without charge Kamehameha vs a 100% ki, freshly regenerated, two hands, fully powered Kamehameha.

Gohan essentially has every disadvantage in the book, there is no way that even if his ki was 100% (Which again is pure speculation), that the blast would be the maximum output possible.

From this, we can infer that SPC is actually significantly weaker than SSJ2 Gohan, from the ki statement and Kamehameha conditions alone.

 

[FTW395]

Ssj2 Teen Gohan did have a charge time for his kamehameha (atleast in the anime). So the only argument that he was not at 100% when he fired the kamehameha is because he got injured. And I agree with that, he wasn't at 100% when he fired the kamehameha, because he also got overpowered by Cell up until the last stretch. Hence why I'm saying that at the last stretch he quickly went 100%.

Also just to bring this up again, didn't SPC get killed by not only the power of Gohan's Kamehameha but his own aswell?

 

[FateAlbane]

...Cell was killed by that Father/Son Kamehameha, but didn't Broly need to be killed by a Kamehameha from Goku, Gohan and Goten only to survive long enough to be thrown into the sun and only then dying? Well, I'll count the votes anyways.

Broly: 6 (Pocket-Chu, Hop, SomebodyData, Sethisbest, Pachi2, Dark649)

Cell: 4 (ConsumingFire, RadicalMrR, JustSomeWeirdo, FTW395)

Inconclusive: 0

 

[FateAlbane]

Oh, and Broly was still winning against the Family Kamehameha until Trunks also interfered, IIRC.

EDIT: And it wasn't even by damaging him, but by preventing him from putting more ki into his own energy blast.

 

[SomebodyData]

Pretty sure that was only in the anime. Again, we only know he got stronger, just not by how much, but considering all the conditions Gohan had, it is impossible to have been 100%. You also have to consider that if what you're saying is accurate, then that means that Cell would be around 60% SSJ2 Teen Gohan (Ignoring all his other conditions) at best.

That is true, but same could be said about Broly (Only in his case, it took significantly longer for it to truly destroy him, showing much higher durability) and what Fate said is also true

 

[JustSomeWeirdo]

Oh, and Broly was still winning against the Family Kamehameha until Trunks also interfered, IIRC.
EDIT: And it wasn't even by damaging him, but by preventing him from putting more ki into his own energy blast.

IIRC It was only one ki blast though

 

[SomebodyData]

That ki blast was only for distracting him, iirc, which was the point.

 

[FTW395]

Pretty sure that was only in the anime. Again, we only know he got stronger, just not by how much, but considering all the conditions Gohan had, it is impossible to have been 100%. You also have to consider that if what you're saying is accurate, then that means that Cell would be around 60% SSJ2 Teen Gohan (Ignoring all his other conditions) at best.That is true, but same could be said about Broly (Only in his case, it took significantly longer for it to truly destroy him, showing much higher durability) and what Fate said is also true

No the same thing can't be said about Broly, Broly's Ball of death was destroyed by the kamehameha's, so he didn't receive damage from his own ball. While cell most likely got killed by his own Solar Kamehameha + The power of a although briefly 100% Ssj2 Teen Gohan Father and son kamehameha

 

[JustSomeWeirdo]

Rewatched the scene, it was a distraction

 

[FateAlbane]

I just saw that scene again. Just to clear any confusion, it happened like this:

>> It was a combined blast from the three while Broly was overwhelming them with his own (when they seemed to gain some sort of advantage, he put more energy in his blast and instantly overwhelmed them). Then, Trunks sent some sort of energy ball between Broly and his massive blast, preventing Broly from increasing the power of his own move so he couldn't finish them off - Goku and his sons took that oportunity to increase their own power and hit Broly.

Then, Broly still shielded himself with an energy barrier and was pushed to the sun before dying by the combined energies and... The heat and gravity, I guess? Also, he didn't die inside the sun, he pierced the star just before disintegrating entirely.

 

[SomebodyData]

No, the blast fused with most of the ki (As shown by the fact that the Kamehameha expanded massively afterward) with a ki particles scattering everywhere.

"While cell most likely got killed by his own Solar Kamehameha + The power of a although briefly 100% Ssj2 Teen Gohan Father and son kamehameha"

Again, how much do I have to say that you have aboslutely no proof for that

 

[FTW395]

@SD I don't have definite proof, correct. But my logic behind it makes sense, I've already explained why I think this was the case so I can't be bothered to say it all again.

 

[SomebodyData]

Your argument makes no sense. (Assuming this "Ssj2 Teen Gohan did have a charge time for his kamehameha (atleast in the anime). So the only argument that he was not at 100% when he fired the kamehameha is because he got injured. And I agree with that, he wasn't at 100% when he fired the kamehameha, because he also got overpowered by Cell up until the last stretch. Hence why I'm saying that at the last stretch he quickly went 100%. Also just to bring this up again, didn't SPC get killed by not only the power of Gohan's Kamehameha but his own aswell?" is your argument.)

Your argument relies that because there is no proof against it, it should be treated as true?

Well not only is that a fallacy, but I've already listed all the evidence against it, but again I have to list it.

- Extremely injured

- Was previously only capable of using 50%, but even that was almost keeping Cell's kamehameha from reaching him, so the boost wouldn't have to even be big to surpass it.

- Has the other hand broken, meaning hes using a two handed technique with only one hand.

- Cell had charging time, whereas Gohan didn't.

None of these conditions went away during the final boost (With the exception of 50% but to an unknown extent), in no scenario could what you're describing be 100% power.

 

[FTW395]

I just checked, even in the manga he had charging time for his kamehameha. As seen here http://i10.***********.net/dragon-ball/416/dragon-ball-71154.jpg and here http://i4.***********.net/dragon-ball/416/dragon-ball-71155.jpg

Also to support my "non-full power until the last stretch" point. http://i3.***********.net/dragon-ball/417/dragon-ball-71165.jpg and http://i5.***********.net/dragon-ball/417/dragon-ball-71167.jpg

The last screenshot supports my theory of Gohan going Full Power right at the moment Cell got distracted by Vegeta.

 

[SomebodyData]

The first one does depict him with charging time, however, if you look at Cell, he was charging even before Gohan, this portrays Cell doing a lot of charging, so while it does change it, it only really changes the status but not the comparison (No charging > Charged = Gohan, Charged > Very Charged = Cell)

I'm going to ignore the fact that it seems that you possibly purposely left out this page http://www.***********.net/dragon-ball/417/7 which shows that even after Goku's words, Gohan states that this is his literal limit, and that it took Vegeta's distraction to beat him as well. Had he been at 100% that moment he wouldn't need the distraction, as 100% would have easily annihilated him.

 

[FTW395]

@SD I didn't ignore that scan because it doesn't mean anything. Yes it says Gohan is doing the best he could but it doesn't imply he could do better without being damaged. Besides how would you explain Gohan suddenly overpowering Cell's kamehameha? It's not like Cell stopped putting energy in his kamehameha the moment Vegeta distracted him. Because he was distracted Gohan took the golden oppurtunity to go Full Power and finish Cell off before Cell could adjust to Gohan's sudden power increase. Though I think you're right about Gohan not being at an actual 100% when he finished off Cell, but there's no denying that he increased his power when he finished Cell off.

 

[PaChi2]

injured ssj2 teen gohan is weaker than SSj2 adult gohan + ssj goten, dunno where the problem is. Broly's durability and AP exceeds ssj2 teen gohan's.

 

[Black_Kakashi]

just to point something on your convirastion,in solar kamehameha vs omega blaster broly has better feats than cell and in terms of power scale he will win against spc in movie 10

ssj2 teen gohan (half ki) means he was as his ssj1 is a bit higher than ssj1 gohan adult (he was injured as i remember)

so it goes so ssj2 half ki gohan=>ssj1 adult

goku movie 10 is a bit stronger than cell games

so

goku movie 10=>goku ssj1 cell games

now we have the goten feat which makes cleary that broly was better in terms of power scale


however abotu gohan using with 1 arm kamehameha means he used half of his power and made it half of half so 25% isnt true,gohan was just 50% (ssj1 with other words) and in his tee form he used the kamehameha with 1 hand always,in first class with perfct cell,in the fianl one and in the fight with dabura


in terms of power scale

broly movie 10>cell sp>broly movie 8>>perfect cell

going by feats

cell sp=>broly movie 10 (or broly movie 10=>cell sp)>cell perfect form>broly movie 8

but there is no way in hell perfect form cell>broly movie 8 jut saying


btw,im sure sp cell will win against in any version of broly but not in terms of pwoer scale for anyone who bring sp cell>broly movie 10

 

[SomebodyData]

@FTW Actually, it kind of does, the entire principal of the Kamehameha is based of focusing ki into your palms and your hands, losing focus is basically fatal in terms of power output, not enough to stop the flow but probably enough to weaken it greatly.

 

[Black_Kakashi]

@FTW Actually, it kind of does, the entire principal of the Kamehameha is based of focusing ki into your palms and your hands, losing focus is basically fatal in terms of power output, not enough to stop the flow but probably enough to weaken it greatly.

but gohan has diffrent style as you saw in his own

 

[SomebodyData]

@Black I was referring to Cell when he was distracted.

 

[Cropfist]

Cell for reasons above.

 

[SomebodyData]

@Crop can you specify whose reasons?

 

[Cropfist]

I'll cast my vote for Super Perfect Cell then, since I think his Regenerationn gives him more staying power in this fight.

I say Cell since Broly will most likely toy with him, like say blowing him to pieces with killing him, this will in turn only make Cell stronger, by the time Broly realizes this it will be to late.

 

[SomebodyData]

I see, I just feel I should remind you that the moment Gohan was going to use a more powerful attack, that Broly went straight to kill mode, and that a powerful enough attack can bypass his regen

 

[FateAlbane]

Broly: 6 (Pocket-Chu, Hop, SomebodyData, Sethisbest, Pachi2, Dark649)

Cell: 5 (ConsumingFire, RadicalMrR, JustSomeWeirdo, FTW395, Cropfist)

Inconclusive: 0

 

[LordAizenSama]

I'll also vote cell. better techniques, regen and intelligence.

 

[FateAlbane]

Broly: 6 (Pocket-Chu, Hop, SomebodyData, Sethisbest, Pachi2, Dark649)

Cell: 6 (ConsumingFire, RadicalMrR, JustSomeWeirdo, FTW395, Cropfist, LordAizenSama)

Inconclusive: 0

 

[Soldier_Blue]

Going with Cell. Should be a better fighter overall and a more intelligent one, more diverse techniques ranging from Solar Flare to Frieza's Death Saucers, regen - if Broly severely injures him without finishing him - he gets a Zenkai.