Broly (DBS) vs Jiren

[MinatoSparkle]

You know, if you directly take Whis' statement at face value, considering Jiren powered up, and Blue Goku fought him, that means ToP Base Blue Goku is stronger than Beerus...let that sink in. Also, you should read my thoughts. Everything you said partially relates to lore, but that's actual scaling.

 

[HierophantDeluxe]

Lots of scaling problems can be resolved just by getting Beerus to fight Goku and Vegeta again, jeez.

Can we all agree that Jiren definitely has more martial arts experience? I don't recall Broly ever recieving a formal training, he's just self-taught and strong, right?

Jiren on the other hand has been taught former training by Gicchin, his master, and is responsible for a peace keeping organization. That and he could contest a UI Goku, who's heavily martial arts and focus (or lack of) orientaited.

 

[MeleeniumRXJ]

Okay, I think I understand the conclusion we've come to.

Upgrade Jiren and Broly to 1-A.

Way to downplay them.

 

[MeleeniumRXJ]

So, so far I have the tally at:

Broly: 3

Jiren: 2

Inconclusive: 1

Hopefully I didn't miscount. I did, however, explicitely count the posts that definitely said they think so and so would win. There's other posts that seem to argue in favor of an opponent but don't definitively say who they vote for.

 

[C2_of_Omegon]

I'm going inconclusive.

We just don't have the information to really make the call, IMHO.

We can go back and forth until our fingers fall off from typing but there's just no real way to call it without more information. Broly is hyped to be the strongest boi on the block but we still don't know where he stands in relation to MUI Goku and LB Jiren.

 

[ZERO7772]

Chadly Maximum > lame ass Grey

 

[Mister_Death]

Broly wins imo. Tbh if we follow DB logic a newer villain is supposed to be stronger, but if we go with what has been presented, broly was able to tango with a SSB, Post ToP Gogeta, who should be quite a bit above MUI Goku.

Ikari Broly was also thrashing Goku, and SS Broly dominated Goku/Vegeta in their SSB forms without taking much damage, with LSS being stronger by an unknown amount.

 

[Mr_John_West]

This should not be a debate. I know Jiren ain't liked and broly is a fan favorite but this debate isn't even good. Im gunna explain why's
One, broly's Power level increase ain't limitless. Otherwise he wasn't about to just be killed by gogeta blue. Yes broly was getting washed and he had to be sent away.

2, Jiren is a way better hand to hand fighter. Broly is just a berserker, guess what happened to the last one?

3. Broly is a maybe stronger than Beerus when Jiren was hyped above a god of destruction at his super casual level. He made Beerus nervous by flexing his ki.

4. Stop giving post TOP scaling that don't exist in the way y'all think it does. It's post TOP. And? That is useless information considering we don't know how much they improved and they haven't fought anyone comparable to Jiren since then.

5. Why is gogeta blue hyped above Mastered ultra instinct? The only reason I'm seeing is, it's a strong fusion and it's post TOP. Then again look back at #4.

6. Ultra instinct is the most important thing in dragon ball. The gods were nervous at an incomplete one, it's a given when he used it the third time he was stronger than the gods of destruction. Mastered ultra instinct puts him quite a bit above them.

7. Ultra instinct is a power boost.

8. Jiren would probably go to just kill the guy. Before he even ever increased his power level to ridiculous levels. In the tournament of power he was limited. He had to guess how much power he needed to put someone out. Rather than just going all out and finishing then.

9. After all that, broly is a maybe stronger than Beerus. Jiren is a lot stronger than Beerus at full power, kinda makes you wonder why goku never said Jiren instead. It's simple. Jiren wipes the floor with broly.

10. Wanna know why UI wasn't in the movie? Because broly wouldn't touch the guy.

11. No broly ain't almost hit whis, whis is a major troll. He's is completely unworried.

12. Jiren wins without that limitless rage boost. I say when he went all out against UI is enough. When he said "I guess I must respond." That's how much power he would need for "full power broly." Thats being generous tho.

1: https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DtQA2PkU4AAEfx0.jpg


"He knows no limit! Broly's infinite power explodes!"

Broly has limits to how much he can rise in his forms, but SSJ Broly was still rising, he rose against Frieza, rose aganst SSJ Gogeta, and went up again against SSJB Gogeta, until Broly had shown his limit like he did in his rage form, his SSJ form just keeps going higher until he transforms and resets the limiter once again. Gogeta beat Broly before he can get stronger again, his power was just too much against Broly

2: Broly learns as he fights, he was fighting toe to toe with SSJ Gogeta fine and he is a combination of the best fighters, he was losing to Vegeta but learned as he fought and matched him in skill. Being a better fighter is meaningless against Broly who learns as he fights nearly instantly

3: 109 Jiren was retcon hard though when Omen Goku 3rd trigger is said to be in the state of the destroyers and he is giving FP Jiren a somewhat equal fight. FP Jiren is as strong as beerus if not above depending on how strong Omen Goku is. So Broly being probably stronger then Beerus places him above or equal to FP Jiren at least.

4: They are stronger, how much stronger is unknown

5: Because it shit stomped FP SSJ Broly who is => Beerus. MUI Goku at the start of episode 130 didn't even come close to doing something like that when Jiren is still holding his own against him. While Jiren was out classed, he still blocked and kept up with MUI, ven going punch to punch with him, SSJB Gogeta smacked Broly to where he couldn't block his hits cause his gaurd was getting broken, couldn't hit him, couldn't even go punch to punch with him cause he gets sent flying every time he tried.


Mastered Ultra Instinct Goku TOTALLY OVERPOWERS Jiren! (1) DBS 130 Full HD Eng Subs


6: Omen Goku was said to be in the state of the destroyers when Vegeta told him to step over it. Goku was Destroyer level in Omen form but unknown if he was Beerus level as some destroyers a greater then others.


Vegeta's speech to Belmod about Goku - English Subbed HD


7: Sure is, though nothing proves it's Base to SSJB level of power boosting since Base Gogeta is > SSJB Goku, nor nothing proves this feat wise, even Kefla SSJ2 kinda debunks the idea of MUI being close to Gogeta level

8: Jiren can try but he will fail. His best bet is his LB form, and if LB Jiren was = > MUI Goku before friendship boost and FP Jiren is still holding his own against MUI Goku at the start of episode 130 then Broly vs LB Jiren is going to be no different, in fact it's going to play out similar to SSJ Gogeta vs SSJ Broly or SSJ Vegeta vs Base Broly, Gogeta and Vegeta had their advantage but Broly caught up and overpowered them. Plus Gogeta didn't put Broly to his knees as he took many attacks from him, so if Gogeta couldn't do it until the Kamehameha, and Broly even took the stardust punisher, and even powered up against him then their is no way Jiren is going to kill Broly in time, that's just a complete reach.

9: Jiren in FP is debately above Beerus but not by much, his LB form is quite above Beerus. Broly FP SSJ is probably stronger then Beerus said by the novel, movie and Saiko Jump. So FP Jiren is either equal or weaker then Broly, LB is above Broly but not enough to win.

10: Head canon, Broly would have a hard time touching MUi but he learns as he fights, plus MUI wouldn't even come close to putting down Broly. Broly would just out last him.

12: That's so laughable, FP Jiren would give Broly a good fight until Broly powers up and makes even his LB power useless. As I said on top, 109 JIren was retcon hard, if you believe 109 Jiren is destroyer level then Goku is basically as strong as Beerus in his Kaioken form

 

[HierophantDeluxe]

Anyways, I vote for Jiren FRA. More skilled hand to hand, I believe him to be stronger based on the gods reaction to UI and how he still managed to go toe to toe with someone on autogod-reflex mode.

 

[LightinAnt]

Broly fra

 

[Omegas03]

SSJ1 Broly is basically at least 40x stronger than someone who's nearing UIO3 Goku strength.

Let's be honest, you really think Jiren even at his Limit Breaking state would get to be 40x stronger than UIO3 Goku? and then we have supporting promo material that says Broly is the strongest enemy yet. My vote is on Broly if this isn't considered an stomp, since SSJ alone is probably stronger than Jiren let alone LSSJ.

 

[The_2nd_Existential_Seed]

Probaby Broly for the reasons West & Omega posted. As we saw in recent ToP... Fusion increases are ludicrously large:

• Neither Kale or Cauli together or apart was anywhere remotely near UIO 1st in any of their forms or even Hit for that matter in AP
• When fused both were able to power up > UIO 2nd ... Which is far greater than UIO 1st and Casual Jiren

• Goku is At least UIO 2nd Level , likely near UIO 3rd Level in SSB due to editorial statements and increases via MUI and Vegeta is at most UIO 2nd Level at his highest .
• Not to mention the End of Movie implied he believed he was nearing his peak, which would mean he is closing in on MUI as well . So he believes that MUI isn't that far off from his current level of strength, meaning he isn't too far off from MUI Goku from the ToP by his lonesome.
• Their Fusion's base would be greater than UIO 3rd at least just going by that. Not to mention SSB which would make him greater than Enraged MUI or Limit Breaker Jiren

That should tell you that the difference is significant enough that even IF Jiren was stronger at first.... It wouldn't be enough of a disadvantage for him not to catch up. And he was able to adapt to Goku and Gogeta... May I ask what makes Jiren different ?

 

[ZERO7772]

Jiren has the power of wank. He's GoD level by simply flexing his fabulous muscles.

 

[C2_of_Omegon]

I don't even think the staff have concluded who they want to be stronger yet, if they even really care about that. We're severely lacking in solid comparisons between the two, and the best both of them have is being compared to different GoDs by different people under different circumstances.

This feels like a 1-A fight.

This basically sums up how I feel. I don't feel confident calling it either way.

 

[JackJoyce]

Vegeta is not weaker than Kakarot by any means.

The problem is powerscaling wise Base Gogeta  Full Power Jire Then we have SSJ which makes him at least 50 times stronger than his base and SSB which is unquantifiably higher. Now MUI is stronger than FP Jiren but the gap was definitely not this big

LSSJ Broly should be stomping Limit Breaker Jiren and UI Goku even if he fought them at the same time right? But the entire notion was completely contradicted by the fact that Frieza can survive his onslaught for one hour. Yes one Fu**ing hour, the same Frieza who got one punched by FP Jiren. Also Goku stating that Broly is possibly stronger than Beerus. While Beerus shouldn't even be relevant anymore compared to their strength.

So we have statements that only puts Broly in the same tier as Jiren (perhaps slightly weaker) and powerscaling that makes him unequivocally stronger.

 

[The_2nd_Existential_Seed]

Okay. We can agree to disagree.

This doesn't matter to me one bit. The Frieza implication could easily be either two things: Massive Outlier or a durability feat. The only saving grace is the fact that Frieza was heavily implied to be a great threat for Goku + Vegeta if allowed to prepare.... Which he did. It doesn't undermine Broly whatsoever.

Either way Broly wins. Powerscaling Goku to almost UIO 3rd either through editorial or Goku's own statement about his power being near that level at the end of the Movie would make him eventualy surpass Jiren before SSFP is used.

If they are comparable, Broly will eventually become too strong to be fazed by anything Jiren has to offer.

 

[PaChi2]

Already done