Breaking Bad Isn't 9-C

[Moritzva]

Not most of it, however.

The most recent 'upgrade' that moved Walt, Jesse, and a few others to Tier 9-C is completely improper.

For one, Jesse doesn't scale to Tuco. This is really obvious, I shouldn't have to say this. Jesse gets absolutely mauled by Tuco in raw strength multiple times and can only attempt to struggle against him in a direct fight, which is... pretty normal, by human standards. I can see Mike scaling to Tuco, given his background, general physical abilities, and his ability to keep a hold on Tuco and be confident in his ability to outlast in their engagement.

The metal towel dispenser argument is dumb, it could easily be a weaker metal towel dispenser. In fact, the very link used for this says they explicitly made a weaker one for the scene. Even if we ignored all that, there's no reason to believe that he would directly scale to 9-C, as it would certainly take multiple punches before his hand would actually be broken and there's plenty of other variables associated with the human condition at play.

Doors can vary in durability and tumbling off one story into some bushes definitely isn't a feat.

We aren't using a person's weight to calculate why fat people should be able to punch at 9-C despite that blatantly not being how humans work, like, at all.

Literally none of the lifting strength feats are reliably "athletic human", they're average as best. I could do most of these things, and I am absolutely not athletic.

Nothing about the speed is anything more than average either.

Stamina is also average.

Walter doesn't have stealth mastery, he's a chem teacher at a high school. Pickpocketing isn't stealth mastery, and walking quietly also isn't stealth mastery. No, he definitely does not have weapon mastery either.

I could dedicate more time to this, but the conclusion to be made is that literally everything in the previous upgrade thread is false, blatant wank, and taking things at the highest possible interpretation with literally zero reason to do so as if we haven't seen humans in our very lives. This is absolutely ridiculous, and I am stunned nobody alerted me of this.

Everything in the above post is trying to overly apply versus battleisms to a topic where we can literally ******* observe the topic in question, in real life, and arrive at a far more reasonable and likely conclusion in every conceivable way.

I petition for the complete reversion of the entire change, because it's ridiculous and never should have been approved.

 

[ShivaShakti]

I don't know why exactly Walter denting a towel dispenser is considered a 9-C feat. That isn't necessarily a matter of enduring a precise amount of energy, but simply striking a hard surface. Someone could probably perform a similar feat by wearing a boxing glove, or some form of padding.

 

[Moritzva]

I don't know why exactly Walter denting a towel dispenser is considered a 9-C feat. That isn't necessarily a matter of enduring a precise amount of energy, but simply striking a hard surface. Someone could probably perform a similar feat by wearing a boxing glove, or some form of padding.

Precisely.

Every argument made for 9-C has to take the most illogical, unintuitive interpretation of events in order for them to work at all.

 

[KLOL506]

Wasn't that feat considered 10-A? Why'd it get upped to 9-C?

But yeah I agree with the downgrades.

 

[Moritzva]

Wasn't that feat considered 10-A? Why'd it get upped to 9-C?

But yeah I agree with the downgrades.

I have no ******* idea, the entire upgrade is so incredibly wrong on every count that I can't even grasp why people allowed it.

Given the mass of how wrong everything was, I simply want to revert all the changes (as that'll be easier when editing the pages) and move from there.

 

[ShivaShakti]

Wasn't that feat considered 10-A? Why'd it get upped to 9-C?

But yeah I agree with the downgrades.

Because a directors commentary stated that Brian Cranston (The Actor) would have broken his hand if they filmed him striking an actual metal dispenser, thus they used a film prop.

They then used one of the calculations from common feats, which placed bone fractures at 9-C.

 

[Colonel_Krukov]

Agreed. We need to stop handing out Stealth, Vehicular and Weapon Mastery, as well as Martial Arts, really casually on the wiki as a whole. Just because they wield a knife, hide in some bushes or got in a fight, doesn't mean that they actually excel in that area beyond the average standard.

Like, Saul Goodman's page is really bad in this regard. He's 9-C for getting into a scuffle with WW and "a martial arts master" because he partipated one time in a boxing match. (The page should just be deleted)

 

[KLOL506]

Because a directors commentary stated that Brian Cranston (The Actor) would have broken his hand if they filmed him striking an actual metal dispenser, thus they used a film prop.

They then used one of the calculations from common feats, which placed bone fractures at 9-C.

That's just flimsy reasoning IMHO.

 

[Moritzva]

That's just flimsy reasoning IMHO.

Literally every single argument in the original upgrade thread is like that.

 

[ShivaShakti]

You could probably argue that Saul is 10-A, but he evidently isn't very proficient in boxing at a technical degree.

 

[Blackcurrant91]

I agree 9-C BB is stupid. Also I might point out, social influencing is highly dependant on the situation. His 'Best' SI feat that gets quoted of convincing Tuco not to break the brothers legs says more about how stupid and guillible Tuco is then how good Saul is at arguing, not that he's bad at arguing but people act like SI is some hax that works 100% of the time in any situation and it's really silly.

It's essentially the equivelant of talking down a homeless person from starting a fight irl.

 

[Therefir]

Because a directors commentary stated that Brian Cranston (The Actor) would have broken his hand if they filmed him striking an actual metal dispenser, thus they used a film prop.

They then used one of the calculations from common feats, which placed bone fractures at 9-C.

Can we take this into consideration? I want to know if that calc applies to this case, since the bones of our hands tend to be more fragile.

 

[QrowBarr]

Saul being at 9-C meanwhile Gus is at 10-A is really funny to me fsr. Agreed with the downgrades, they should go back to being 10-A

 

[SamanPatou]

I agree

 

[CuteAnimeNekoGirl99]

Better Call Smoke!

Wasn't that feat considered 10-A? Why'd it get upped to 9-C?

But yeah I agree with the downgrades.

so the dispenser feat was considered 10-A since it's stated if the real life actor bryan cranston actually punched the dispenser it would have broken his hand

that's from what I remember from the original thread and the idea is since breaking bones is 9-C this feat should be for potentially busting bryan's hand

also a newer comment on the original thread by therefir goes more into it which if an untrained man such as walt just decided to go ham on the dispenser much he he did it would break the person's hand]

Literally none of the lifting strength feats are reliably "athletic human", they're average as best. I could do most of these things, and I am absolutely not athletic.

To defend the LS feats firstly I feel like the easiest one's is Saul's dude lifting feat Saul here is only using the strength from his arm to me at least this should be at least quantified as above-average human level

Secondly is Tuco's money which we see tuco pack in only 50 dollar bills into the bag and Jesse asks for "35 large" or 35,000 dollars so this would mean the bag weights in at about 700 grams since a single dollar = 1 gram which being able to swing around a bag that is this amount is probably just above average human

I think a better feat is throwing jesse through a door tbh Tuco wise

Doors can vary in durability

I think Jesse's door kick can be calced and I might do it uvu

 

[Jibz]

Can we take this into consideration? I want to know if that calc applies to this case, since the bones of our hands tend to be more fragile.

Should we take into account the physical limitations of actors when scaling their fictional counterparts? No.

If this were to ever be the case, lets get rid of Kimiko from The Boys acrobatics as they needed her to use a pulley to perform those superhuman flips. Or any live action character that can do any above human feat due to human limitations.

 

[Arkenis]

bruh

 

[Therefir]

Should we take into account the physical limitations of actors when scaling their fictional counterparts? No.

I'm kind of confused, what do you mean by physical limitations? Do you think a normal human with no fighting skills would be able to repeatedly punch a metal dispenser without breaking their hands?

Do you think live actions where the characters destroy prop walls is actually just a 10-C feat when in the reality of the show it's supposed to be an actual 9-B concrete wall?

If this were to ever be the case, lets get rid of Kimiko from The Boys acrobatics as they needed her to use a pulley to perform those superhuman flips. Or any live action character that can do any above human feat due to human limitations.

Of course all superhuman feats in live actions are either staged or made with CGI, but they are real in the show, it doesn't matter if the actors can't actually do it.

So I'm not sure why it would be different in Walter's case, he is still punching a metal dispenser in the reality of the show, not a fake prop.

 

[Jibz]

I'm kind of confused, what do you mean by physical limitations? Do you think a normal human with no fighting skills would be able to repeatedly punch a metal dispenser without breaking their hands?

A normal human cant, but in the tv show they clearly show us Walter can. Also you dont need fighting skills to throw a regular punch.

Do you think live actions where the characters destroy prop walls is actually just a 10-C feat when in the reality of the show it's supposed to be an actual 9-B concrete wall?

Im afraid i dont follow, because ive been trying to argue the opposite.

Of course all superhuman feats in live actions are either staged or made with CGI, but they are real in the show, it doesn't matter if the actor can't actually do it.

So I'm not sure why it would be different in Walter's case, he is still punching a metal dispenser in the reality of the show not a fake prop.

I fear this is a case of miscommunication and that we both agree with eachother.

 

[Armorchompy]

The metal towel dispenser argument is dumb, it could easily be a weaker metal towel dispenser. In fact, the very link used for this says they explicitly made a weaker one for the scene. Even if we ignored all that, there's no reason to believe that he would directly scale to 9-C, as it would certainly take multiple punches before his hand would actually be broken and there's plenty of other variables associated with the human condition at play.

"They made a weaker one" if anything strengthens that it is a feat, given it wouldn't actually be weaker in-verse. Now that said, I think it's 10-A at best.

Not knowledgeable on the rest of the verse but I would agree with OP, generally.

 

[LIFE_OF_KING]

Walter shouldn't even be 10-A. He is not even close to being an strong guy or athletic. He is actually constantly represented as weak

 

[Moritzva]

I can deal with 10-A, given there's at least a few feats on that level. In the end, we should revert all the previous changes and start from there.

 

[BigSmoke4269]

For one, Jesse doesn't scale to Tuco. This is really obvious, I shouldn't have to say this. Jesse gets absolutely mauled by Tuco in raw strength multiple times and can only attempt to struggle against him in a direct fight, which is... pretty normal, by human standards.

the first time around, tuco has a weapon and jesse has no time to react. the second time, jesse is at gunpoint most of the time, so he can’t really fight back unless he wants to get shot to death. since he gets up unscathed after getting extensively beaten by tuco, it makes sense for his durability to downscale from tuco’s ap.

The metal towel dispenser argument is dumb, it could easily be a weaker metal towel dispenser. In fact, the very link used for this says they explicitly made a weaker one for the scene.

in the verse, it would be made out of the same material. we don’t consider the materials of fake props in live action media, we pretend they’re real.

Even if we ignored all that, there's no reason to believe that he would directly scale to 9-C, as it would certainly take multiple punches before his hand would actually be broken

he dents the towel dispenser on the first punch

Doors can vary in durability and tumbling off one story into some bushes definitely isn't a feat.

he falls onto concrete though

Literally none of the lifting strength feats are reliably "athletic human", they're average as best. I could do most of these things, and I am absolutely not athletic.

jesse weighs 70 kg. walt picks him up and throws him with one arm. walt has two arms. 70 x 2 is 140 kg, athletic human

Nothing about the speed is anything more than average either.

stats currently say “at least average human”, so there’s nothing wrong there. plus i calced walt’s reactions to athletic human, that’s what the kids call epic fail

Stamina is also average.

oh yeah, i hate it when i get beaten and tortured by neo nazis for six months during my average everyday life

Walter doesn't have stealth mastery, he's a chem teacher at a high school.

that isn’t an argument. he sneaks through people’s houses and past law enforcement without them noticing. i don’t think being a chemistry teacher detracts from that.

Pickpocketing isn't stealth mastery

then what is it? i said that huell was fast with his hands thanks to pickpocketing, but i was told that it’s a stealth feat. but now it isn’t stealth either?

No, he definitely does not have weapon mastery either.

bro killed lalo salamanca in a gunfight and he doesn’t get weapon mastery lol

 

[EmperorRorepmeThree]

How is denting a towel dispenser peak human ability?

 

[Damage3245]

How is denting a towel dispenser peak human ability?

Yeah, I don't see how this isn't a feat that a perfectly average human - which Walter is - could do.

 

[Maverick_Zero_X]

Agree with axing the 9-C ratings

 

[Propellus]

How is denting a towel dispenser peak human ability?

That towel dispenser was said to be pretty hard and would've broken his hand though, seeing how he did all of that and his hands weren't even bleeding. With that on the way, there's no telling what Walt could do to someone's internal organs.

 

[Moritzva]

Almost all of what you said is wrong for reasons mentioned above, but I'll point out a few key things.

First, very temporarily holding up another person is absolutely within the territory of average human strength. I could do that, and I am not athletic at all.

Second, the towel dispenser easily could've just been, in-universe, one made out of a weaker material or rather old. We don't know, and even if we assume the high end, it would really only be 10-A at best (and, if I recall correctly, his hands were a bit messed up afterwards anyways - I'd need to check).

Third off, being tortured doesn't translate to combat stamina. I could be tortured for weeks, that doesn't mean my physical stamina is higher just because my captors don't kill me. That's not how humans work.

All of the "mastery" arguments are obviously wrong on virtue of not understanding what actually earns these abilities.

Edit: Was wrong on the towel dispenser thing, must've mentally slipped up. His hands weren't visibly injured or ****** up. Doesn't change my point.

 

[Moritzva]

That towel dispenser was said to be pretty hard and would've broken his hand though, seeing how he did all of that and his hands weren't even bleeding

Surprisingly, towel dispensers can vary in hardness and the human body can be surprisingly fragile. Not to mention, it didn't break his hand because they probably didn't try.

Overall, using basic human should determine that they probably didn't use the pre-existing one because it possibly could've hurt him. In-verse, we can likely assume it is simply a weaker towel dispenser, and even if it wasn't, that would still be closer to 10-A at best.

 

[SheevShezarrine]

How is denting a towel dispenser peak human ability?

It's unanimously agreed here to not be, the contention is whether or not we consider it to be a mere prop or treat it like an actual irl metal towel dispenser

 

[Propellus]

Is there any evidence otherwise that the towel dispenser that Walt pummeled was a weaker model?

 

[Moritzva]

It's unanimously agreed here to not be, the contention is whether or not we consider it to be a mere prop or treat it like an actual irl metal towel dispenser

It is not unanimously agreed upon what it would be, and IRL objects can vary in hardness and durability. Even at a high end, we can pin it as 10-A.

 

[Moritzva]

Is there any evidence otherwise that the towel dispenser that Walt pummeled was a weaker model?

Is there any evidence that Walt is legitimately 9-C? Even if it's a perfectly normal model, 10-A is about the best you could get off of a feat like that.

 

[SheevShezarrine]

It is not unanimously agreed upon what it would be, and IRL objects can vary in hardness and durability. Even at a high end, we can pin it as 10-A.

I said we all agree it's not 9-C

 

[Propellus]

Is there any evidence that Walt is legitimately 9-C? Even if it's a perfectly normal model, 10-A is about the best you could get off of a feat like that.

Please do not misinterpret my words like that, when I have I ever said he's 9-C in legitimation?

 

[Moritzva]

I mean, if you don't think he's 9-C, then you agree. In which case, we have no reason to argue.

 

[Coolboy6]

I’m fine with 10-A BB

 

[BigSmoke4269]

Yeah, I don't see how this isn't a feat that a perfectly average human - which Walter is - could do.

it’s been stated that bryan cranston would have broken his hand if they didn’t use a fake prop for the scene. breaking a bone requires like 375 joules or higher

 

[Moritzva]

Human durability varies, and not only did they not actually do it (simply imagined it might break his hand, which is a reasonable concern as a crew), but a hand is far easier to injure than any other part of the body.

The human body is complicated and science is even moreso. You can't apply VSBWisms like that to low-level tiers like this and expect it to always work, especially when IRL says otherwise. This is why your calc for Huell being 9-C via being really fat was denied.

 

[Shmooply]

Agree with the downgrade as well. The majority of the feats brought up can be easily done by normal human beings, so I'm really not sure where did these highballs come from.