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bleach TS ichigo CRT

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TOAAPRESENCE1 said:
He says that "without his majesties power the world/everything would not survive" something like that
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He does say exactly that, so I will retract that part of my argument.
Arc7Kuroi said:
I believe you're misrepresenting my argument. The WSK passively maintains whatever with his reiatsu -> insert Kenpachi's statement on passive reiatsu = minimum durability -> insert the various instances of people being crushed by their own reiatsu because they're bodies couldn't handle it -> conclusion the WSK's durability must be relative to his reiatsu and his reiatsu is relative to whatever he's maintaining thus so is the WSK's durability.
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My entire point here is that Kenpachi is an example of how one's own durability can be manipulated. And it is said that the Soul King maintained his own will and guided Ichigo to himself. So what I'm saying is that the Soul King could very likely lower his own durability and would very much lower his own durability since that is currently the only known way for the Ancestor's to be capable of removing parts of him.

And here's a quote I found about the Soul King from Ichibei:
"That's right. Others; with special powers, including myself; appeared, but it is fair to say that the Rei-o stood out; his powers very close to omnipotence and omniscience."
That pretty much places the Soul King on a pedestal far above the rest.
And if so, there would be no way for other people of the time to hurt the Soul King without him allowing it.
Damage3245 said:
Other way around, unless you're talking about character to character scaling.
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I meant it the other way around, Ap normally scales to durability.
 
Having two methods of destroying a house (Bleachverse) doesn't make one (flow balance) scale or related to the other one. (Soul King’s power over the reams)
 
Duedate8898 said:
That pretty much places the Soul King on a pedestal far above the rest.
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That statement would explicitly apply to that time period.

Duedate8898 said:
My entire point here is that Kenpachi is an example of how one's own durability can be manipulated
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But Kenpachi still establishes a bare minimum. Plus the argument has evolved beyond Kenpachi as we no that unless your durability is relative to your current reiatsu output it will crush you. So WSK's durability must be relative to his current reiatsu output which would be equivalent to whatever he is maintaining.

Duedate8898 said:
So what I'm saying is that the Soul King could very likely lower his own durability and would very much lower his own durability since that is currently the only known way for the Ancestor's to be capable of removing parts of him.
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Not necessarily as Ichibe can make things weaker himself. The SK wouldn't have had to lower his dura at all, he'd just have to let Ichibe make him as tough as an ant. However, you'd have to be arguing that the WSK chose to have an abysmal durability and chose to die, despite his whole shtick being that he'd sacrifice his freedom for the world. Why would he choose to be so killable if his entire purpose was to maintain the entire world. It makes no narrative sense.
 
Again with the flow of souls thing, when is literally debunked by the manga, stop discussing either way staffs member already made a page just for that and a thread were spam "agree FRA" to aplly their ratings because they can't debate neither admit a certain famous verse to be that strong even if the mangaka itself write Yhwach is universal.
 
AppleLord said:
I got Almighty from my friend for 1 second, it told me:

1. Matthew is making a LONG CRT to downgrade the recent upgrades.
2. A lot of BS that can't be answered will be used to “debunk” the upgrades.
3. Damage is going to do a flashy-read and say “I agree with Matthew.”
4. After an hour or so, Damage 3-4 mod friends come and say “Matthew makes sense”.
5. Bleach is getting downgraded back to Damage’s CRT.
6. A rule will be spam a lot “Don’t try to upgrade Bleach based on the XXXX. The topic has already been done to death and debunked.

GG ultimate win! Almighty sees everything! But you can't prevent the Mod arrow!
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It is concerning that this is the mindset that is applied whenever a staff disagrees with a non-staff. It could just be that the staff simply disagrees through their own volition and it has nothing to do with power.

The irony here being that Bleach was upgraded to tier 2 because the fandom finessed a mod into submission. It is interesting how that works.
 
Sir_Ovens said:
The irony here being that Bleach was upgraded to tier 2 because the fandom finessed a mod into submission. It is interesting how that works.
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I fail to see how the fandom finessed any mod into submission. There were 4 mods who agreed with the upgrades and one who disagreed. Each and every point the one mod who disagreed made was proven wrong to the point where his/her argument simply became "no" without any justifications.
If you go revisist the upgrade crt, people call him out on it as well.
Also to add chalking up the upgrade only happening because the entire bleach fandom bullied a mod into agreeing to the upgrades is false when 4 other mods were convinced and agreed to it.
 
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Sir_Ovens said:
It is concerning that this is the mindset that is applied whenever a staff disagrees with a non-staff. It could just be that the staff simply disagrees through their own volition and it has nothing to do with power.

The irony here being that Bleach was upgraded to tier 2 because the fandom finessed a mod into submission. It is interesting how that works.
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Who sent you? Haven't seen you before on a Bleach thread. Like ever. Shouldn't you do some detective work before jumping to the rescue of one side or a conclusion? Like can you read this (post #2383) and tell me Damage isn't using his power to keep the thread locked?

Why shouldn't the same rules apply to him?

A new thread discussing this shouldn't be open since according to him “a recent one was closed and rejected based on the information been discussed two months ago” during the upgrade thread the information that is going to be brought up was debunked.
 
I'm just speaking as someone from the outside looking in. I'm not trying to start anything. My previous comment had a bit of venom behind it but only because I have the slightest bias against the verse. I was just curious as to why Bleach had a reputation on the wiki and I came to see it for myself first hand.

Also Damage is the only mod that has any active investment in the verse. Considering he also manages dozens of other wikis at once, I can really see the lack of supervision on display.

Pay no mind to my previous post, I'm derailing anyway.
 
So Tier 3 Bleach finally happened. I remember when the CRT based on Muken's size was stonewalled rejected few months ago ... Some new info has come to light ?
 
Sir_Ovens said:
Also Damage is the only mod that has any active investment in the verse.
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Imo both TOAA and Warren are invested and very knowledgable on the verse as well. Warren even made an entire post on why he supported the upgrade. Props to Damage for putting all that work though. Even though arguments with him get heated at times I am pretty sure everyone appreciates the work and dedication he puts into this forum and respects him for it.
Anyways I am gonna stop derailing this crt lol.
 
Sir_Ovens said:
The irony here being that Bleach was upgraded to tier 2 because the fandom finessed a mod into submission. It is interesting how that works.
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Nothing of that happened, did you read that thread at least?... It was upgraded because despite the blatant bias of the people that didnt wanted it to get upgraded, they could do nothing about the evidences. Please read that CRT and tell me your thoughts, dont go by what people tell you.
 
Tyri456 said:
Nothing of that happened, did you read that thread at least?... It was upgraded because despite the blatant bias of the people that didnt wanted it to get upgraded, they could do nothing about the evidences. Please read that CRT and tell me your thoughts, dont go by what people tell you.
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Dude, stop. And that goes for everyone else. What happened is now in the past and its over. Just look forward to the new CRT or whenever something that will happen
 
It's good. I'd always felt that the "Realm of the Living" only refers to the planet earth to be extremely dodgy
 
RoyGundam said:
So Tier 3 Bleach finally happened. I remember when the CRT based on Muken's size was stonewalled rejected few months ago ... Some new info has come to light ?
Click to expand...
Not really most of my arguments came from the manga very few of it came from the novels. Plus I bought the raw version of the third volume.


RoyGundam said:
It's good. I'd always felt that the "Realm of the Living" only refers to the planet earth to be extremely dodgy
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One thing the novels were good for was confirming that the realms =/= planets.
 
So I’m gonna refresh the current argument again lol (doing this so it’s easily accessible when people return).

Requirement 1: Soul King is stabilizing the Soul Society and everything connected (because we are outright told so) and he is doing so on a “universal” scale as mentioned in CFYOW II (I’d drop the scan but I’m on my phone rn it’s in the original CRT).

Requirement 2: We know the Soul King is doing so with his reiatsu.

Requirement 3: As soon as the Soul King is killed everything begins collapsing and getting destroyed. As soon as the Mimihagi stops the Soul Kings death everything is stabilized instantly. Multiple characters make a point of saying without the Soul King the entire bleach universe would cease to be.

Requirement 4: Reiatsu directly correlates to stats as per the entire series.

Claim: Weakened Soul King’s durability scales to his stabilization feat.

Primary Reasoning: Throughout Bleach we are shown countless times that if a character can’t withstand their own reiatsu it crushes and damages them. Ichigo’s bones are crushing whilst fighting Byakuya the first time. Toshiro needs to mature his body so it can withstand his true Bankai. Kenpachi’s arm is torn off because he released too much power. Therefore, the fact the Weakened Soul King takes no visible damage from the weight of his own reiatsu means his durability is relative.

Secondary Reasoning: Kenpachi says that someone’s minimum durability is relative to their passive reiatsu. The Weakenes Soul King is a vegetable meaning everything he does is passive -> he passively stabilizes the entire bleach universe.

Implications of my claim:
  • WSK Dura: 3-A, possibly Low 2-C (FRA)
  • TS Ichigo: 3-A, possibly Low 2-C (Killed the Soul King, Yhwach said Ichigo’s level of power was necessary to kill the Soul King, this Ichigo was powerful enough where Ichibe was going to make Ichigo into the next Soul King, Yhwach called this the power Ichigo was meant to have)
  • FGT Ichigo: 3-A, possibly Low 2-C (Yhwach said the power that defeated Aizen is the same as his True Shikai)
Possible Implications:
  • Dangai Ichigo: 3-A, possibly Low 2-C (if you argue that FGT is just an attack and not a new form that amps Ichigo)
  • God Aizen: 3-A, possibly Low 2-C (burnt Dangai Ichigo’s arm)
Other Implications:
  • Dangai Ichigo: [whatever tier God Aizen is] (bullied Aizen)
  • God Aizen: At least [previous tier or calc I haven’t gotten evaluated yet] (stronger than before, did calc I haven’t gotten evaluated yet)
Current Counter-Argument:
  • WSK purposely lowered his durability to allow Ichigo to cut him.
    • WSK is in a vegetative state and implied to be without a brain, I don’t see how he’s making any conscious action in that state. It makes no narrative sense for the Soul King to lower or have super low durability. He’s supposed to be the only thing that keeps the entire Universe from collapsing, it’s nonsensical to have the lynchpin so weak. There’s no visual indication or evidence that his durability was lowered.
 
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It's literally true. Dozens of fans spamming agrees for 24 hours straight, getting a thread into over 12 pages in record time to get an upgrade approved with no Moderation behind it is ridiculous.
 
I mean TOAA and Warren already agreed, Damage had said in earlier threads he thought people like Yhwach were around 3-A and also said he was leaning towards agreeing. So we got like 3/4 votes for yes, I don't know if I agree that we "finessed" anyone albeit I think it's a funny word lol. There was only a core handful of "fans" actually partaking in arguments too.
 
Matthew_Schroeder said:
It's literally true. Dozens of fans spamming agrees for 24 hours straight, getting a thread into over 12 pages in record time to get an upgrade approved with no Moderation behind it is ridiculous.
Click to expand...
I’m not even going to entertain this since most the thread was you stonewalling with ridiculous notions like Garganta was outer space or something. And you trying to debunk legit translations using google translate no less.

Literally all those pages were back and forth with your well known bias. Damage at least made actual arguments and remained impartial.

I bet this what you told all your buds “I was forced”. Imagine actually thinking we forced something to be accepted as if we have the power to do any of that lol.
 
Arc7Kuroi said:
So I’m gonna refresh the current argument again lol (doing this so it’s easily accessible when people return).

Requirement 1: Soul King is stabilizing the Soul Society and everything connected (because we are outright told so) and he is doing so on a “universal” scale as mentioned in CFYOW II (I’d drop the scan but I’m on my phone rn it’s in the original CRT).

Requirement 2: We know the Soul King is doing so with his reiatsu.

Requirement 3: As soon as the Soul King is killed everything begins collapsing and getting destroyed. As soon as the Mimihagi stops the Soul Kings death everything is stabilized instantly. Multiple characters make a point of saying without the Soul King the entire bleach universe would cease to be.

Requirement 4: Reiatsu directly correlates to stats as per the entire series.

Claim: Weakened Soul King’s durability scales to his stabilization feat.

Primary Reasoning: Throughout Bleach we are shown countless times that if a character can’t withstand their own reiatsu it crushes and damages them. Ichigo’s bones are crushing whilst fighting Byakuya the first time. Toshiro needs to mature his body so it can withstand his true Bankai. Kenpachi’s arm is torn off because he released too much power. Therefore, the fact the Weakened Soul King takes no visible damage from the weight of his own reiatsu means his durability is relative.

Secondary Reasoning: Kenpachi says that someone’s minimum durability is relative to their passive reiatsu. The Weakenes Soul King is a vegetable meaning everything he does is passive -> he passively stabilizes the entire bleach universe.

Implications of my claim:
  • WSK Dura: 3-A, possibly Low 2-C (FRA)
  • TS Ichigo: 3-A, possibly Low 2-C (Killed the Soul King, Yhwach said Ichigo’s level of power was necessary to kill the Soul King, this Ichigo was powerful enough where Ichibe was going to make Ichigo into the next Soul King, Yhwach called this the power Ichigo was meant to have)
  • FGT Ichigo: 3-A, possibly Low 2-C (Yhwach said the power that defeated Aizen is the same as his True Shikai)
Possible Implications:
  • Dangai Ichigo: 3-A, possibly Low 2-C (if you argue that FGT is just an attack and not a new form that amps Ichigo)
  • God Aizen: 3-A, possibly Low 2-C (burnt Dangai Ichigo’s arm)
Other Implications:
  • Dangai Ichigo: [whatever tier God Aizen is] (bullied Aizen)
  • God Aizen: At least [previous tier or calc I haven’t gotten evaluated yet] (stronger than before, did calc I haven’t gotten evaluated yet)
Current Counter-Argument:
  • WSK purposely lowered his durability to allow Ichigo to cut him.
    • WSK is in a vegetative state and implied to be without a brain, I don’t see how he’s making any conscious action in that state. It makes no narrative sense for the Soul King to lower or have super low durability. He’s supposed to be the only thing that keeps the entire Universe from collapsing, it’s nonsensical to have the lynchpin so weak. There’s no visual indication or evidence that his durability was lowered.
Click to expand...
I'm gonna put this here to deter from any more derailing, let's stay civil my dudes we worked out some differences yesterday lol let's leave them in the past.
 
That comment just bothered me is all. I won’t start it again.

As for this thread I’m pretty neutral to it but mostly leaning towards disagree regarding the Ichigo scaling and etc.
 
Because it's been made clear that both sides need to stop stirring stuff, I've had to delete AppleLord's comment. His comment was geared towards me, but I want to make it clear that his post is entirely unrelated to the subject of this CRT and just carries on the same tone as the previous topic that has been dropped.
 
This thread has strayed far from the intended purpose. Will there be further derail or are we going to get back on topic?

I could easily close this thread if you guys are done discussing.
 
Is scaling accepted or rejected if the discussion continues, it would be better not to go beyond the topic
 
Arc7Kuroi said:
So I’m gonna refresh the current argument again lol (doing this so it’s easily accessible when people return).

Requirement 1: Soul King is stabilizing the Soul Society and everything connected (because we are outright told so) and he is doing so on a “universal” scale as mentioned in CFYOW II (I’d drop the scan but I’m on my phone rn it’s in the original CRT).

Requirement 2: We know the Soul King is doing so with his reiatsu.

Requirement 3: As soon as the Soul King is killed everything begins collapsing and getting destroyed. As soon as the Mimihagi stops the Soul Kings death everything is stabilized instantly. Multiple characters make a point of saying without the Soul King the entire bleach universe would cease to be.

Requirement 4: Reiatsu directly correlates to stats as per the entire series.

Claim: Weakened Soul King’s durability scales to his stabilization feat.

Primary Reasoning: Throughout Bleach we are shown countless times that if a character can’t withstand their own reiatsu it crushes and damages them. Ichigo’s bones are crushing whilst fighting Byakuya the first time. Toshiro needs to mature his body so it can withstand his true Bankai. Kenpachi’s arm is torn off because he released too much power. Therefore, the fact the Weakened Soul King takes no visible damage from the weight of his own reiatsu means his durability is relative.

Secondary Reasoning: Kenpachi says that someone’s minimum durability is relative to their passive reiatsu. The Weakenes Soul King is a vegetable meaning everything he does is passive -> he passively stabilizes the entire bleach universe.

Implications of my claim:
  • WSK Dura: 3-A, possibly Low 2-C (FRA)
  • TS Ichigo: 3-A, possibly Low 2-C (Killed the Soul King, Yhwach said Ichigo’s level of power was necessary to kill the Soul King, this Ichigo was powerful enough where Ichibe was going to make Ichigo into the next Soul King, Yhwach called this the power Ichigo was meant to have)
  • FGT Ichigo: 3-A, possibly Low 2-C (Yhwach said the power that defeated Aizen is the same as his True Shikai)
Possible Implications:
  • Dangai Ichigo: 3-A, possibly Low 2-C (if you argue that FGT is just an attack and not a new form that amps Ichigo)
  • God Aizen: 3-A, possibly Low 2-C (burnt Dangai Ichigo’s arm)
Other Implications:
  • Dangai Ichigo: [whatever tier God Aizen is] (bullied Aizen)
  • God Aizen: At least [previous tier or calc I haven’t gotten evaluated yet] (stronger than before, did calc I haven’t gotten evaluated yet)
Current Counter-Argument:
  • WSK purposely lowered his durability to allow Ichigo to cut him.
    • WSK is in a vegetative state and implied to be without a brain, I don’t see how he’s making any conscious action in that state. It makes no narrative sense for the Soul King to lower or have super low durability. He’s supposed to be the only thing that keeps the entire Universe from collapsing, it’s nonsensical to have the lynchpin so weak. There’s no visual indication or evidence that his durability was lowered.
Click to expand...
Bump
 
Fair enough. This CRT has gone over a month without a reply so it is outdated by now and can be closed.
 
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