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Bleach small upgrade

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EldemadeDityjon

EldemadeDityjon

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Contents on this thread

Information Type 2 Manipulation + Existence for Soul King, Yhwach & Ichibē.

Possibility High godly regeneration for yhwach & Soul King.



Information Manipulation
Fundamental: These characters can manipulate information, which serves as fundamental building block of reality. This can allow characters to rewrite the world to their whims, often by programming it much like they would a virtual reality. These manipulation can come on many levels. For some it might just be the mechanism behind mundane magical abilities, while others can rewrite information to change reality, causality or the laws of nature.
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Yhwach can share his soul fragments and gets others abilities and knowledge of others. It is done via imprinting others information into his soul and taking it back. Yhwach Originally didn't had any body parts like eyes or ears and he get them due to him sharing the souls. Jugram states if Yhwach stops this method he would go back to how he was which his means his current reality which formed by Information gets returned back to nothing and he would loose all of his abilities and body parts again. This comes to conclusions that information plays a big role in building blocks of yhwach existence.





It was even clarified by Kubo outside club Q&A. Yhwach does Manipulation information to get others skills, knowledge and abilities.



Conclusion: Yhwach should get Information Manipulation+Existence based on Information.

Also Possibly High godly regeneration based on he can recreate his body from reshi which also need to include information if we consider his existence is made up of information (I will leave it up to you guys to decide)



Ichibē should also get information manipulation based on how his abilities displayed and he removed all of yhwach abilities and skills based on it. Also Ichibe existence resides on his name. All of these things already listed in Ichibe profile.



Btw many stated information type 2 existence needs a seperate feats for interactions. If that's the case it should be specified in Bleach characters profiles like Ichigo and Aizen who can interact with Yhwach.
 
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Also, I don't get the “existence part”, do you mean abstract existence based on Information?

Furthermore, I am really iffy about type 2. This looks more like type 1.
 
Dread said:
Also, I don't get the “existence part”, do you mean abstract existence based on Information?
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His body itself is formed by Information. Abstract existence and information both are different if i am correct
Dread said:
Furthermore, I am really iffy about type 2. This looks more like type 1.
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Type 1 is only based on knowledge. Here yhwach body is formed by Information.
 
Dread said:
No, Bleach considers it as conceptual fundamental manipulation, you can't take the same argument and say it is info type 2. Sorry but I disagree with this.
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Characters can have both Conceptual Manipulation and Information manipulation depending on the context. Bleach doesn't have fundamental aspects for all of its existence as Information only few character has feats of manipulating information type 2. It's the same like how Web Novel Rimuru has Both CM and information where both can manipulate reality on fundamental aspects
 
EldemadeDityjon said:
His body itself is formed by Information. Abstract existence and information both are different if i am correct
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Abstract existence type 1 is what you are referring to. You can “be information” through AE type 1 in Wiki.
Also, it seems Ichigo and Aizen and others can interact with him, so they get also interaction in their profile.
EldemadeDityjon said:
Type 1 is only based on knowledge. Here yhwach body is formed by Information.
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But it is never treated as fundamental in verse. Unless you bring a scan that it treats like that.
EldemadeDityjon said:
Characters can have both Conceptual Manipulation and Information manipulation depending on the context. Bleach doesn't have fundamental aspects for all of its existence as Information only few character has manipulating information type 2. It's the same like how Web Novel Rimuru has Both CM and information where both can manipulate reality on fundamental aspects
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Wrong, WebNovel Rimuru verse explicitly stated that skills, abilities, nature, and all are information and information is a fundamental concept in verse. It explicitly stated and leave no other interpretation. In your case, you use your own interpretation and mentioned some head canons.
 
Dread said:
Abstract existence type 1 is what you are referring to. You can “be information” through AE type 1 in Wiki.
Also, it seems Ichigo and Aizen and others can interact with him, so they get also interaction in their profile.
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May be I am not sure. If Information is automatically AE type guess AE type 1 then
Dread said:
But it is never treated as fundamental in verse. Unless you bring a scan that it treats like that.
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It doesn't need to be treated as fundamental aspects of the verse. It just needs to be treated as fundamental aspects of the reality which it governs(small parts is enough).

That's why I quoted the text from information manipulation page above
Dread said:
Wrong, WebNovel Rimuru verse explicitly stated that skills, abilities, nature, and all are information and information is a fundamental concept in verse. It explicitly stated and leave no other interpretation. In your case, you use your own interpretation and mentioned some head canons.
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Like I said character can have both information manipulation and Conceptual manipulation. It depends on the context. Ichibē Conceptual Manipulation comes from the fact his abilities erases names of things from whole reality itself including the Timelines. My argument is giving information type for him removing yhwach abilities which he obtained thanks to his information manipulation.
 
EldemadeDityjon said:
It doesn't need to be treated as fundamental aspects of the verse. It just needs to be treated as fundamental aspects of the reality which it governs(small parts is enough).

That's why I quoted the text from information manipulation page above
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Literally, no scans you attached say anything from that.
EldemadeDityjon said:
Like I said character can have both information manipulation and Conceptual manipulation. It depends on the context. Ichibē Conceptual Manipulation comes from the fact his abilities erases names of things from whole reality itself including the Timelines. My argument is giving information type for him removing yhwach abilities which he obtained thanks to his information manipulation.
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The argument can be used then, but I still disagree with type 2.
 
Dread said:
Literally, no scans you attached say anything from that.
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This is from information manipulation page only. There is nowhere it states as the whole verse needs to be made up of information type 2.
Fundamental: These characters can manipulate information, which serves as fundamental building block of reality. This can allow characters to rewrite the world to their whims, often by programming it much like they would a virtual reality. These manipulation can come on many levels. For some it might just be the mechanism behind mundane magical abilities, while others can rewrite information to change reality, causality or the laws of nature.
Click to expand...
Also check the scans from Kubo Outside Club Q & A. Abilities Yhwach gives others based on information only.
Dread said:
The argument can be used then, but I still disagree with type 2.
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Fine.
 
EldemadeDityjon said:
This is from information manipulation page only. There is nowhere it states as the whole verse needs to be made up of information type 2.

Also check the scans from Kubo Outside Club Q & A. Abilities Yhwach gives others based on information only.

Fine.
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I never said a whole verse needs to be made up of information, type 2. What I said is this, all the examples you mentioned are not considered fundamental in any sense. At maximum, type 1. Yes.
 
Dread said:
I never said a whole verse needs to be made up of information, type 2. What I said is this, all the examples you mentioned are not considered fundamental in any sense. At maximum, type 1. Yes.
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Type 1 doesn't work like that 🗿
Give me a example for character which forms their body parts based on type 1 information. That's legit type 2 information for yhwach. Type 1 is just knowledge based things nothing else.
 
This is going in circles right now. Nowhere it is stated that that information or those “things” are fundamental in verse or even treated as one.
 
Dread said:
This is going in circles right now. Nowhere it is stated that that information or those “things” are fundamental in verse or even treated as one.
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It doesn't need to be whole verse. Only factions of reality is enough.

Type 1 is more like mind manipulation as stated in the information manipulation page only.

Type 2 is using the information and creating something out of nothing which yhwach is doing. After he acquired knowledge from others he used that information and created his body parts which weren't Existed in the first place.

According to Jugram Yhwach would go back to his Orginal state of being a crippled Foetus if he doesn't maintain that information. Which backs up his existence is made up information. Claiming it as type 1 doesn't make sense by wiki standard and explanation.
 
I've finally read through the OP and i'm currently kinda confused given my relative lack of understanding Type 2 Information Manipulation in general, but especially in this context. I believe this confusion is based around the definition of "fundamental" which denotes "a necessary base or core; of central importance", the soul fragments that Yhwach gives are necessary for his continued existence in his current form, and are also the core of his current existence as well. So i guess i'm fine with Yhwach having Information Manipulation Type 2 and Information-Based Existence since his body is constructed of said fragments.

Possibly High-Godly is something i'm fine with personally, specifically through The Miracle only. Honestly you could probably upgrade The Miracle in itself to High-Godly given the fact that the ability could most likely regenerate Prime Soul King whose entire body is constructed of informational fragments, similar to Yhwach. (It's actually exactly like Yhwach thinking about it, which makes sense since Yhwach is likely just a fragment of PSK's existence)

I guess the Ichibe stuff is fine, but i'm kinda tentative with that agreement. So just put me leaning towards agreeing with this.

If that's the case then yes, Ichigo and Aizen would need NPI on that level. So i agree with this if that's true.
 
I am not really confused. But if soul fragments are necessary for his continued existence in his current form, then I am pretty sure it is more conceptual/spiritual than the information itself. And we have already given CM for this. Therefore, you already suggested AE type 1 through this.

I only agree with AE type 1, but really disagreed with information type 2.
 
Dread said:
I am not really confused. But if soul fragments are necessary for his continued existence in his current form, then I am pretty sure it is more conceptual/spiritual than the information itself. And we have already given CM for this. Therefore, you already suggested AE type 1 through this.
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EldemadeDityjon said:
It was even clarified by Kubo outside club Q&A. Yhwach does Manipulation information to get others skills, knowledge and abilities.

Click to expand...

This literally backs up information Manipulation not Conceptual Manipulation. He is giving powers based on words and letters not based on Concepts.
Dread said:
I only agree with AE type 1, but really disagreed with information type 2.
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A character can have both if they have proof. Yhwach has it.
 
Deceived said:
Possibly High-Godly is something i'm fine with personally, specifically through The Miracle only. Honestly you could probably upgrade The Miracle in itself to High-Godly given the fact that the ability could most likely regenerate Prime Soul King whose entire body is constructed of informational fragments, similar to Yhwach. (It's actually exactly like Yhwach thinking about it, which makes sense since Yhwach is likely just a fragment of PSK's existence)
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Yeah I was about to point out that. I will add the Soul King part to OP as well wait. .
 
Yhwach can share his soul fragments and gets others abilities and knowledge of others. It is done via imprinting others information into his soul and taking it back. Yhwach Originally didn't had any body parts like eyes or ears and he get them due to him sharing the souls. Jugram states if Yhwach stops this method he would go back to how he was which his means his current reality which formed by Information gets returned back to nothing and he would loose all of his abilities and body parts again. This comes to conclusions that information plays a big role in building blocks of yhwach existence.
Click to expand...

This is the part that I think is a stretch.

Yhwach doesn't just absorb information from them; he isn't sustained on information or formed by it.
 
Damage3245 said:
Yhwach doesn't just absorb information from them; he isn't sustained on information or formed by it.
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His fragments do contain information within them though, which said fragments given him his current continued existence as without the constant supply of fragments/souls would revert him back into a lesser, more vulnerable form. So he's definitely intrinsically formed and sustained by information, just not necessarily in a singular sense but rather a compounded sense with other variables like power.
 
So information isn't all he's made up of? Not too sure I'd give it to him then if it's just a part of the makeup but I'm well versed in this stuff. Overall, I guess the suggestions seem ok but honestly I really don't have much to contribute to this discussion.
 
LordGriffin1000 said:
So information isn't all he's made up of? Not too sure I'd give it to him then if it's just a part of the makeup but I'm well versed in this stuff. Overall, I guess the suggestions seem ok but honestly I really don't have much to contribute to this discussion.
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His Body parts and everything is made up of information except the first form whatever it was. According to JUGRAM without those information he would return to that form and loose all of his parts and abilities.

That's why I am suggesting Possibly High godly regeneration instead of Solid one.
 
EldemadeDityjon said:
His Body parts and everything is made up of information except the first form whatever it was. According to JUGRAM without those information he would return to that form and loose all of his parts and abilities.

That's why I am suggesting Possibly High godly regeneration instead of Solid one.
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It's not information that is returning to him; it's pieces of his soul.
 
I mean, he's pulling the information out of someone's soul, which then fuels his existence, and is able to imprint information on the souls of other people to grant them powers seems like information manipulation to me
 
Hellscream said:
I mean, he's pulling the information out of someone's soul, which then fuels his existence, and is able to imprint information on the souls of other people to grant them powers seems like information manipulation to me
Click to expand...
Hellscream said:
And the fact that Kubo said that he doesn't just see someone's soul normally but sees information should support that
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Exactly. Without those schrifts. Abilities wouldn't exists.
 
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