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Bleach Bankai General Discussion 18

I don't think that would count in terms of infinite, unless he was awake for an infinite amount of time

What's below Infinite in terms of a stamina list?
 
^This. He may not be outright stated to have infinite stamina but by feats, he probably should. What other characters have infinite stamina anyway?
 
Alright so as Wonder said his Stats should be as follows

PSK:

Stamina- Very high (Should be higher than his Weakened self)

Range- Interstellar (Was able to create a dimension full of stars)

Weaknesses- None notable

Intelligence- High, likely much higher via the Almighty (was able to see millions of years into the future)


WSK:

Stamina- Very High (Was able to stay awake and keep several realms stable for millions of years)

Range- Multi-planetary (His power keeps several planet sized realms from collapsing)

Weaknesses- Unable to move as he has no limbs, His will has weakened over the years and he is now imprisoned within his crystal seal.

Intelligence - High, likely much higher via the Almighty (was able to see millions of years into the future)
 
For the WSK weaknesses, add that his will has faded over the years and that he is actually imprisoned in the crystal seal thing. The will thing definitely should be added, the seal part amounts to the limbless thing so thats voluntary.
 
Unless the dimensions are Multiversal in size then i don't see how his range would be that, the biggest accepted dimension is multiple solar systems in size

Also what should be on par with aizen?
 
I'm quite certain it doesn't need to be multiversal in size, unless you're arguing the dimensions have some sort of physical distance between them. They just need to separate spaces which they are.

And his stamina should, dude doesn't even have blood let alone muscle tissue.
 
AnonymousBlank said:
For the WSK weaknesses, add that his will has faded over the years and that he is actually imprisoned in the crystal seal thing. The will thing definitely should be added, the seal part amounts to the limbless thing so thats voluntary.
Click to expand...
Added
 
That's not how it works Sigurd, and i'm not saying they have physical distance between them (Though didn't memories of nobody kinda confirm that they do?)

I think dimensional distances don't account for range

I'm fine with it being Extremely high if that's what you're suggesting
 
@Sigurd

Eh, I dunno about being on par with Aizen. While being the god tier shoud place him above Aizen, that only came about due to the statements of his heart always beating no matter what, the heart producing reiatsu, and him having no nd or smth. SK has far better feats but it only points to being really high and not infinite unlike Aizen.
 
AnonymousBlank said:
@Sigurd
Eh, I dunno about being on par with Aizen. While being the god tier shoud place him above Aizen, that only came about due to the statements of his heart always beating no matter what, the heart producing reiatsu, and him having no nd or smth. SK has far better feats but it only points to being really high and not infinite unlike Aizen.
Click to expand...
The Hogyoku was made with the Soul King's nail; a fragment of the Soul King plus a lot of souls = Aizen gained infinite stamina.

The thing that grants infinite stamina needed a portion of the Soul King to be able to operate correctly, so I think it's fair to add that to the profile since a single portion of his body can create a reality-warping, infinite-stamina-granting, immortality-generating jewel.

Also, shouldn't Prime SK have at the very least Universal+ range since he affected numerous dimensions, each their own distinct reality, as well as the Dangai which is a separate time-space altogether? I do think Sigurd has an argument for the Low Multiversal due, almost solely, to the case of the Dangai
 
@Xulrev

Except that the Nail isn't what gives Aizen infinite reiatsu, its what happened to him due to the Hog. Hog doesn't have inifinte reiatsu, it made Aizen immortal and his heart never stop beating which is what causes the infinite reiatsu.
 
AnonymousBlank said:
@Xulrev
Except that the Nail isn't what gives Aizen infinite reiatsu, its what happened to him due to the Hog. Hog doesn't have inifinte reiatsu, it made Aizen immortal and his heart never stop beating which is what causes the infinite reiatsu.
Click to expand...
The Nail created a jewel. The jewel grants its master immortality in this case, which is the same as infinite stamina. The Soul King is no different really, seeing how as he can generate enough reiatsu even when missing literally all of his organs to hold the realms together for 100 million years.

I think anything below 'Infinite' stamina is absurdly underplaying him, cuz I don't think of '100 million years without organs' when I see 'Exceptionally High' stamina, personally
 
"Governs Desire with his nail - This one was originally's Matsumoto's fragment of the Rei-o that Aizen took from her and added to complete the Hogyoku. This was the piece of her soul that Gin wanted to get back from Aizen and kill him. It grants you any wish you have that is withing the possibilities of your own power." not sure if this is fan made tho

The Nail gave aizen what his HEART wanted

There is nothing,litterly nothing to suggest that SK wanted the same thing especially with him being a god-power like

More like he wanted to be sealed/killed not get stronger
 
The Nail being part of the Hog means nothing as we don't give creators the power of their creations unless specified otherwise.

Also what states that the WSK still produces reiatsu? His remains could simply have that much reiatsu.
 
TataHakai said:
That's not how it works Sigurd, and i'm not saying they have physical distance between them (Though didn't memories of nobody kinda confirm that they do?)

I think dimensional distances don't account for range

I'm fine with it being Extremely high if that's what you're suggesting
Click to expand...
This doesn't make sense, and no the movie doesn't confirm a physical distance which is impossible. You can't walk from Soul Society to Hueco Mundo or anything. They're separate dimensions. Separate 4 dimensional spaces.
 
AnonymousBlank said:
The Nail being part of the Hog means nothing as we don't give creators the power of their creations unless specified otherwise.
Also what states that the WSK still produces reiatsu? His remains could simply have that much reiatsu.
Click to expand...
The fact that reiatsu is actively-extered pressure, and the fact that WSK is still alive.

His reiatsu can be actively felt and the lack of it noticed. That combined with it being actively-exerted and his having been alive means he's outputting that.
 
Reiatsu is not actively exerted at all, it can be but Kenpachi literally explains that his passively emitted reiatsu is above Ichigo's. Even the Urahara fight with Aizen proves as much when the wristbands seal Aizen's reiatsu vents which would cause him to blow up from the reiatsu which is always released building up until his body can't contain it anymore.

Being alive =/= producing reiatsu just as correlation =/= causation. We are told exactly what produces reiatsu and WSK is missing it so why would we say that he produces it? Even being dead doesn't mean you have none left as seen with Yhwach absorbing the very dead SK and getting a huge boost.
 
Pretty sure Dangai and Garganta surrounds all the realms, and he created them. So yeah his range should be in the universal+, low-multiversal.
 
Reiatsu is indeed the active exertion of Reiryoku; persons such as Kenpachi are the exception, not the rule, since he has no ability to regulate his Reiatsu at that point in the story. He physically cannot control how much he exerts.

Per the Aizen fight: well, yes, someone actively fighting and exerting their reiatsu having said vent sealed up will, indeed, be incinerated from within due to no vent.

We say the WSK produces reiatsu because he....produces reiatsu, which is detectable. We are told how SHINIGAMI produce reiatsu, not the deity of Bleach produces it. He's alive regardless of missing every one of his internal organs, are you truly trying to claim we can use Shinigami as the base for how we treat his physiology?
 
Reiatsu is not the active exertion at all, it is passive like I just explained with references to 2 fights. Also Kenpachi can't control his reiatsu? Sorry but no, he cannot limit it himself (hence the eyepatch) but he can sharpen it just like he explained to Ichigo.

Its not the fact that Aizen was fighting and thus raising his reiatsu but the explanation Urahara gives that reiatsu is always being passivley emitted.

Except that WSK is a soul just like shinigami. Why would we assume he has a different physiology for producing reiatsu when it was not specified as such? The only beings that we have been given a reason for not producing it like a normal soul is Hollows since they are missing their heart. Being alive regardless of mortal injuries doesn't mean his physiology is different. Ichibe (a Shinigami) was still alive despite having been ripped to pieces, ichigo (another Shinigami) was alive despite having had his chest blown through, Mayuri was still alive depite being a puddle with no organs or when he removed all of his organs/bones/tendons etc as prep for Szayel. I dunno about you but Shinigami seem to have ample evidence for survivng mortal injuries and even lacking the organ which produces their reiatsu.
 
Kenpachi really does struggle to control his reiatsu, it's part of his entire character and why he needs help regulating it to manageable levels or else no fight would be fun for him. It's a huge thing for his character.

And....is there any proof the SK is just a soul? Why would we presume the SK, who is stated to be like a Quincy, Shinigami, Hollow, and Fullbringer, is SOLELY sharing this particular trait of a Shinigami? It's a bizarre reach.

Ichibe survived obliteration due to his Name powers, not any function of his physical body; he had to explicitly steal some of Ichigo's power when his name was called, an ability the novels tell us is linked to the Oken within them thanks to the SK.

Ichigo survived due to Zangetsu awakening and taking over his body, making him a Hollow which do not need a heart, so he was no longer a Shinigami and then High-Speed Regenerationn healed that hole.

Mayuri turned into a goop per a Zanpakuto ability specifically crafted to enable his escape, nothing says his heart was not present in that state, and his real heart was still existent when he swapped them out against Szayel.

Shinigami surviving without their heart exists sure, but not in a vacuum and you've missed an enormous amount of context for every instance to fit a narrative.
 
Unable to limit it by his own ability is a huge part of his character, still doesn't change the fact that he is still able to control it and that it is a passive thing.

Any proof he isn't just a soul? And where was he stated to be a Hollow? Particular trait of a shinigami? Nani? Its something that can easily be argued to be possessed by all beings so far aside from Hollows. Shinigami is an occupation and are the same as pluses except that they have greater reiatsu, Quincy have similar biology to Shinigami as seen with Ryuken vs Ishida, makes sense considering when they are humans (living pluses), Fullbringers are humans (pluses) with a Shard from SK, what says they are different biologically? So every race that SK is the progenitor for shares the same biology, guess we should just assume he has different biology huh?

True on Ichibe.

Ichigo was alive for quite a while before Zangetsu hijacked him considering Ishida had a fight with Ulq and he was hearing Orihime the whole time, prompting Zangetsu to take over. High speed regen after the fact doesn't change what happened prior.

So Mayuri's heart squeezed through tiny gaps between the wall and ground? His real heart existing in another dimension isn't relevant as it has no bearing on him in HM. That was the whole point to replacing his organs and shit since even if Szayel's hax destroyed them, it would not matter as they had been replaced by fakes.

The only point I made that ignores context is Ichibe while you are ignoring almost everything established about souls, reiatsu etc for yours.

Edit: and for something that has nothing to do with the above, how far away was Yama flexing his reiatsu when killing those Hollows?
 
It was specifically 13km away when he killed the Hollow. The rest of your comment I'll actually just cede for now Anonymous because I really just have no desire to carry on the convo at this point, sorry to say. Good convo regardless but yeah since it's a general discussion chat I think I'll just drop my points and let it move on to something else.
 
13 miles, you're correct

Everyone should just use freedom units at this point, the swapping is confusing
 
Thats fair Xul. I was feeling like stopping anyway but how could I not respond to getting called out ovo?

Anyone have an idea of how large Karakura is radius wise? I can't remember which thread had the different guesses at determining the size.
 
I've been working with skalaverei on a Karakura size.

I gave him the information and possible methods and context we could use for it. We seem to have come to a specific method and size recently.
 
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